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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / July 2006Chrysler in the UK
I think, as American cars go, Chrysler is the most original. Chevy is just a rebranded Daewoo car. Daewoo cars are just bad Asian cars. Checy thinks that by buying out the company and adding the ole bowtie emblem will make ppl buy them. Nope, it just aint happening. Ford..is dull ole Ford. Theyre everywhere. Focuses are just so plain. But i have seen a 300c, and, cripes, what a car! And seeing a Ram ploughing its way down a small country road being cautiously followed by a tiny little Peugeot is just too funny. They Brits arent used to such an imposing vehicle, other than a bus or a transport truck. So, i could only imagine the poor ole person looking up at the Ram in front of him. Im an ex-Canadian ..and umm...dont ask what i drive. But im used to seeing a Ram around. Of course, the Voyagers are a dime a dozen, and the odd Neon shows up and the PT Cruiser is plentiful. cheers..eh... lol Montag, 19. Juni 2006 15:05 (US Central Time) mudpucket wrote in rec.autos.makers.chrysler: > I think, as American cars go, Chrysler is the most original. > > Chevy is just a rebranded Daewoo car. Daewoo cars are just bad Asian Besides being bad asian cars ... Daewoo is only Chevy, because some jerks at GM headquarters thought it would be a good idea to promote Chevrolet in Europe. That stupid idea will (or already has) backfire(d). A similar stupid idea would be ... DaimlerChrysler wants to promote the Smart in the US and puts the label "Dodge" on it. Nobody would see how one would grab life by the horns when driving a Smart ... Talk to you later ... Hans from Germany (75 to go)  Signature2006/06/19 19:50 EDDS 191950Z 28007KT 9999 -SHRA VCTS SCT050CB SCT068 22/14 Q1018 RETSRA TEMPO TS is that what there doing? That not very..smart.. > Montag, 19. Juni 2006 15:05 (US Central Time) > mudpucket wrote in rec.autos.makers.chrysler: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > EDDS 191950Z 28007KT 9999 -SHRA VCTS SCT050CB SCT068 22/14 Q1018 RETSRA > TEMPO TS Montag, 19. Juni 2006 16:08 (US Central Time) mudpucket wrote in rec.autos.makers.chrysler: > is that what there doing? That not very..smart.. As far as I know ... DC is thinking of bringing the Smart to the US, but under its own name. Talk to you later ... Hans from Germany (75 to go) Signature2006/06/20 04:50 EDDS 200450Z 12001KT 9999 VCFG NSC 17/17 Q1018 NOSIG > is that what there doing? That not very..smart.. No one has ever really accused GM of being "smart." Or of making great products :-/ IMO, the whole entire bias against American cars is because people think "GM" when they think "American car." I've always thought "Chrysler" first and "Ford" second when I think "American Car," and therefore Japanese cars have always seemed like inferior junk to me. >> is that what there doing? That not very..smart.. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >first and "Ford" second when I think "American Car," and therefore >Japanese cars have always seemed like inferior junk to me. Hardly. You ask a brit, or a frog what he thinks of 'GM' and he'll go "who?" you'd have to say "vauxhall/opel, saab" etc. ford they know about, but they mostly have their own fords (like the focus, etc) chrysler is the ones sold as american cars. What euros think of when they think of american cars is large floart riding cars, with huge engines and low power outputs, and piss-poor handling. As a brit living in the Us, and having driven many american cars, its pretty much spot on. > What euros think of when they think of american cars is large floart > riding cars, with huge engines and low power outputs, and piss-poor > handling. As a brit living in the Us, and having driven many american > cars, its pretty much spot on. You drove the wrong American cars, likely GM or Ford. I've had Chryslers since they went FWD and their FWD cars handle just as well as the UK rental cars I drive every few years when I'm in the UK. >> What euros think of when they think of american cars is large floart >> riding cars, with huge engines and low power outputs, and piss-poor >> handling. As a brit living in the Us, and having driven many american >> cars, its pretty much spot on. >You drove the wrong American cars, likely GM or Ford. Did you read what I said at all? Fords in europe are mostly different, although they're starting to take over the US (focus, recent couger, I think the new 'mercury montego is actually the ford mondeo introduced in late 02) - the ford puma was voted ar of the year in 98 by Top gear, by a pannel notoriously anti-american. Brits also don't know about GM, to them (us) its a vauxhall. or maybe now a Saab. > I've had Chryslers since they went FWD and their FWD cars handle just >as well as the UK rental cars I drive every few years when I'm in the >UK. So, what you're saying is that your chrysler drives as well as a usually porly maintained car with lots of miles on - hardly a ringing endorsement. (rental cars are always run ragged, no matter what the country, its just basic economics) Having driven non-renal chryslers int he US, and non-rental UK cars, and a lot of non-rental cars in general, chryslers handling, and indeed that of ALL american models (not euroepan moedls modified and brought to the US) seem to handle worse - its mainly down to the soft suspension, and the slushbox transmissionand the engine response sure doesn't help things. Its not just FWD cars, corvettes (at last those of 3-4 years ago) felt unbalanced, sloppy and fas refined as a wet fart. Almost drive a viper the same day, except it broke down. BBC's top gear is about as respected as you'll get for car reviews, so.. http://www.topgear.com/drives/F6/A8/roadtestList/dateDesc.jsp for the PT cruiser reviews http://www.topgear.com/drives/F6/AA/roadtestList/dateDesc.jsp 300C caravan/voyager - http://www.topgear.com/drives/F6/A6/roadtestList/dateDesc.jsp and the crossfire - http://www.topgear.com/drives/F6/B1/roadtestList/dateDesc.jsp pretty much all the reviews said they weren't very good to drive, except the str-8 crossfire review, that said it was 'bacuse its an old slk in drag' I'm sure you can go find you the jeeps and stuff too if you want. Interesting, since auto gear boxes are laregely an American invention and my understanding was that most of them used in European cars, however prestigious, actually had US-sourced gear boxes. My impression is wrong, then? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] and the slushbox > transmissionand the engine response sure doesn't help things. [...] >Interesting, since auto gear boxes are laregely an American invention and my >understanding was that most of them used in European cars, however >prestigious, actually had US-sourced gear boxes. > >My impression is wrong, then? Generally, 95% of euroepan cars are manual, 5% automatic. There or thereabouts, anyway, no more than 10% autos. Reason is, almost everyone learns to driev a manual since if you pass your driving test in an atutomatic, thats what your licenses restricts you to. Autos are not common, and often cost a fair bit more than a manual for that reason. >DAS > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> transmissionand the engine response sure doesn't help things. >[...] That's the answer to a question I did not ask. Are you a politician or something? ;-) BTW, most Mercs in the UK are sold with auto boxes. Would not be surprised if same applied to BMWs. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Generally, 95% of euroepan cars are manual, 5% automatic. There or > thereabouts, anyway, no more than 10% autos. Reason is, almost [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>> transmissionand the engine response sure doesn't help things. >>[...] > So, what you're saying is that your chrysler drives as well as a > usually porly maintained car with lots of miles on - hardly a ringing > endorsement. (rental cars are always run ragged, no matter what the > country, its just basic economics) You rent from the wrong places. I have often driven rental cars with little more than delivery mileage on them (less than 1000 miles total). And in many cases, since the manufacturers want to "manufacture" used cars, they sell/lease to rental companies with deals that limit mileage to such an extent that required maintenance is little more than oil changes. So in this case "basic economics" means that the rental cars will be almost like new. >> So, what you're saying is that your chrysler drives as well as a >> usually porly maintained car with lots of miles on - hardly a ringing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >So in this case "basic economics" means that the rental cars will be >almost like new. i've worked on some large events, where you can have every rental agency in a place like San Franssico out of cars. i've seen ohow mny people drive them. ("Hey, we got the insurance, it doesn't matter really if we stick 2 ton of stuff int he back,a nd then try for burnouts" or my favourite, a jeep grand cherokee, in low range 4WD, doing burnouts down the vegas strip, then back at the base camp, going and doing donuts in the dirt. People don't look after rental cars like they would their own. >>>So, what you're saying is that your chrysler drives as well as a >>>usually porly maintained car with lots of miles on - hardly a ringing [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > People don't look after rental cars like they would their own. It's a common saying in the business world that it's completely acceptable to have all four wheels of a rental car in the air at one time. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > > I've had Chryslers since they went FWD and their FWD cars handle just > >as well as the UK rental cars I drive every few years when I'm in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > endorsement. (rental cars are always run ragged, no matter what the > country, its just basic economics) You sure make assumptions and jump to unsupported conclusions. My last UK rental was a BRAND NEW Focus SW in May. I've never had a rental car from a major rental company that was more than 6 months old. Thank goodness you don't write auto reports. Major rental company cars are used for such a short time, handling would not be affected by poor maintenance. Of course miss use could affect handling, but that would be unusual. > What euros think of when they think of american cars is large floart > riding cars, with huge engines and low power outputs, and piss-poor > handling. As a brit living in the Us, and having driven many american > cars, its pretty much spot on. Pretty much spot-on BULLSHIT. >> What euros think of when they think of american cars is large floart >> riding cars, with huge engines and low power outputs, and piss-poor >> handling. As a brit living in the Us, and having driven many american >> cars, its pretty much spot on. > >Pretty much spot-on BULLSHIT. Drive a load of european spec cars then, then drive a load of comparable american cars. odds are the suspension will be a lot softer in the US car, the steering not as sharp, the engines tuned more for low-range power, and bigger, and much more likely to have an automatic box. , oh, and the US car will also be heavier > IMO, the whole entire bias against American cars is because people think > "GM" when they think "American car. Nope, but an idea. >" I've always thought "Chrysler" first Very good. >and "Ford" second when I think "American Car," I'd put Ford third. > and therefore > Japanese cars have always seemed like inferior junk to me. Not true today, but was true for all but Toyota back in the 60s. > I think, as American cars go, Chrysler is the most original. I agree and GM is the least. > Chevy is just a rebranded Daewoo car. Daewoo cars are just bad Asian > cars. Checy thinks that by buying out the company and adding the ole > bowtie emblem will make ppl buy them. Nope, it just aint happening. I had a look at a few of those bottom end Chevs, very outdated under the hood. > Ford..is dull ole Ford. Theyre everywhere. Focuses are just so plain. Yes the Focus is outdated, both the body and mechanicals. However Ford is doing very well technically in their recent NA cars such as the Fusion, but they are covering their nice mechanicals in dull boxes. Ford seems a bit confused, They replaced the Taurus with the Fusion, after the boxy heavy 500 wasn't accepted as it's replacement, but they still sell the base Taurus sedan. Unfortunately they don't have a replacement for the unique Taurus station wagon, the only NA mid sized SW. So customers will have to go to Mazda for a Fusion (Mazda 6) SW. > But i have seen a 300c, and, cripes, what a car! And seeing a Ram > ploughing its way down a small country road being cautiously followed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Im an ex-Canadian ..and umm...dont ask what i drive. But im used to > seeing a Ram around. I was just in the UK and my UK friends weren't very impressed with a 300C I identified in a south UK beach area. Black didn't help it as far as they were concerned. My UK friends aren't into monster cars, except one who has a Range Rover for he and his wife. The RR allows him to see over the hedges in the country area where he lives. > Of course, the Voyagers are a dime a dozen, and the odd Neon shows up > and the PT Cruiser is plentiful. Plus the Jeep Cherokee and Liberty. Chrysler may have done with the Neon and the PT Cruiser as they did with the 300; come out with a completely different body functionally which will get new buyers, but may piss off the existing customers for that Chrysler line. -the RWD 300 definitely wasn't a replacement for the FWD LH and 300M lines it replaced. -the Caliber may not be a replacement for the Neon and PT Cruiser. >> I think, as American cars go, Chrysler is the most original. >I agree and GM is the least. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >replacement for the unique Taurus station wagon, the only NA mid sized >SW. So customers will have to go to Mazda for a Fusion (Mazda 6) SW. and not something like the Volvo V70? or wold you classify that as a large car? > and not something like the Volvo V70? or wold you classify that as a > large car? Yes IMO the V70 is large, as is the Ford 500 which I understand is on the same platform. I'd love to know what a "south UK beach area" is. Somewhere in the Caroilinas or Florida? :-) In Britain we have had the Jeep and Voyager for years, PT Cruiser for a while. The others have started arriving, in particular the 300C. The full Chrysler range has been available for a bit longer in Germany. Two observations:- 1) I think Chrysler is relatively big in Europe cf GM & Ford USA because they don't have manufacturing plants here. GM & Ford are very strong with the European/international offerings. 2) 'Mainstream' Chryslers are being brought in for political reasons, especially as D-B (Daimler-Benz) had 'merged' with Chrysler. I would be really surprised if 300Cs and Sebrings ever grow beyond the specialist I-want-to-be-different niche, especially as the prices here are so much higher than in the US. I spoke to a Sebring Cab(riolet) owner in Germany the other day. I had seen the car for over a year near where I frequently stay and finally saw the driver park. He certainly likes it and is a bit cheaper than its obvious rival, the Merc CLK Cab. I hired one in the US some years ago and quite enjoyed it, too, and I would not mind having one at US prices. That would compensate for it not being quite up to the standard of the CLK (previous model W208), eg, the roof mechanism. Otherwise space and comfort were pretty good. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > I was just in the UK and my UK friends weren't very impressed with a > 300C I identified in a south UK beach area. Black didn't help it as far [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> and the PT Cruiser is plentiful. > Plus the Jeep Cherokee and Liberty. [...] > I'd love to know what a "south UK beach area" is. Somewhere in the > Caroilinas or Florida? :-) [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >> > [...] What are they charging for a 300C in Europe? And what does an E Class Mercedes go for? I was in Amsterdam last year and all of the taxis were E class Mercedes. In the US it would be inconceivable for a car as expensive as a Mercedes to be used as a cab, most US taxis are mid priced cars or small minivans which cost 1/3rd as much as an E class Mercedes. In the US it would be inconceivable for a car as expensive as a Mercedes to be used as a cab, most US taxis are mid priced cars or small minivans which cost 1/3rd as much as an E class Mercedes. A marketing decision was made by Mercedes and BMW to target the high end market in North America, thus their products are loaded with options sold here that sometimes are not even offered in Europe or Asia or Africa. For example you can purchase a Mercedes or BMW in Europe with steel wheels, no radio, no air-conditioning, a small motor and a manual transmission, low end interior, small tires and manual windows. In North America you get a larger motor, larger wheels made of an alloy with so called performance tires, anti-lock brakes and stability control, leather interior, power everything, a high powered radio and CD player. This is not apples to apples but different products for different markets. Heck, I remember my 1956 190SL Mercedes, a beautiful two seater sports car with a 4 speed manual transmission, basic 4 cylinder motor, leather seats, power drum brakes, a nice Becker radio, manual windows, manual steering, and not even a fan for the heater. Those were the days. Richard. In short - yes. Apples are not being compared with apples. In the early eighties I was working for an international, US-owned company in Germany for a couple of years. A number of us had the standard-issue company car, a Mercedes W123 200D for our level and work in the company. Very economical and a real work-horse. One of the most reliable cars of the era. (Some employees did not like them because of relatively poor performance even in the then context.) (Car costs are more than capital costs - depreciaton and servicing are far more important, ESPECIALLY depreciation, often neglected by private buyers plunking cash down, which many do in Europe.) At some stage US management decided it was time for a cost-control/reduction drive and they took one look at the German company cars, sucked air in and forced a change to (petrol-engined) Audi 100s and the new (but physically smaller) 190. I never saw the figures but we were all willing to bet costs went up. American management did not (seem to) realise we were running 2-l diesel engines rather than 3-l petrol engines. Plus it probably looked bad to American shareholders that German employees were driving company MERCS in difficult times. Mercs in the UK also cost a bit more than in Germany, but some of that is due to option-loading. Still, in 2001 I bought a Merc in Germany and drove it over. Spec'ed it to UK levels because of resale value (added some other options I fancied) and saved GBP 5 000 against the UK price. Actually I had expected to save double that when ordering, but in the meantime Merc raised the price of RHD cars in Germany and lowered prices in the UK. The price changes were market-forced, I believe, because loads of people were importing directly from Germany and other countries, resulting in lots of unhappy UK dealers. There were Merc dealers in, e.g. Paris and Netherlands specialising in this business, quoting UK-spec cars and pre-arranging all relevant documentation. It was an extraordinary time. Based on some official figures I estimated that in 2000/01 about 8% of ALL passenger cars were privately imported from elsewhere in Europe, with a much higher percentage among the more expensive cars. A neighbour of mine, for example, bought a Porsche this way and saved maybe GBP 10 000. On a GBP 70/80 000 car that's not to be sneezed at. This neighbour told me that a couple of guys had set up an car importing business and were going round his merchant bank. Lots of the colleagues bought cars this way with their bonuses. Paid a fee but saved stacks. I nearly got somebody else to get my car and do the importation paperwork but in the end I decided to do it myself. No big deal as I was going to Germany anyway. As regards 300C pricing in the UK, look here: http://www.chrysler.co.uk/chrysler/versions.aspx?id=248,17,,b http://www.chrysler.co.uk/chrysler/index.aspx?vd=1&cc=IN0604102AA&keyword=chrysl er%20uk You may find engine options you don't see in NA, especially among diesels. E.g. could not have a Jeep without a diesel in the range. For prices in Germany go to the Chrysler Germany site. For Merc just go to the national Merc sites, e.g. start here: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/content/mbcom/international/international_website/e n/com.html Currency exchange rates: http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft2-com/html-currency.asp? http://finance.yahoo.com/currency DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [....] > A marketing decision was made by Mercedes and BMW to target the high end > market in North America, thus their products are loaded with options sold [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Richard. Just returned from a 2-day trip to London. Geeze, LHR is a pathetic excuse for an airport. Anyways, I don't see why the 300c is being pushed in the UK. It's a huge car given that many roadways and parking spaces are so small compared to North American standards. I've never understood why the previous 300m never got more exposure in the UK (or in Europe in general). It was certainly more compatible with UK/European roads (and gas prices) than the 300/300c give it weighed less and came with a 2.7 L v-6 (and it looked better even compared to all the UK/European junky little cars that you see over there). |
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