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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / July 20061991 A604 trans fluid change
Hello All: The local Mom and Pop transmission shop that I used for years has changed hands, and I am not comfortable with the new owners (I think they might have sabotaged my wife's Impala on my last visit, but I'll spare you the details). Anyhow, I have been calling around town, and I cannot find a shop that is willing to do just a transmission fluid change. They all insist on a fluid flush. From what I was told by my trusty old trans shop, fluid flushes can do mare harm than good. Also, some shops think the old A604 can use DEXRON fluid, which scares me. So, I am thinking about tackling this job myself. I do all of my own oil changes and other simple maintenance, etc, so maybe I can do the trans fluid change, too? I have a few questions: 1) I have read that some trans filters come with a cork gasket that is sure to leak, other filters have a synthetic rubber gasket that seems to work well, and some come with a tube of silicone rubber sealer. Anyone know what to get? 2) I will buy my fluid from MOPAR at the dealer; how many quarts? Should I get the filter there, also? 3) Any procedures you can recommend? Thanks for any help, and have a nice day, Bill > Hello All: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Thanks for any help, and have a nice day, Bill It should be a task that you can handle yourself. I would recommend going to the dealer and purchasing the *reusable gasket* and a filter. The fluid can be purchased at most auto parts stores. I have seen it sold under the names of Quaker State and Valvoline. So long as it says ATF3+ and/or type 7176 the fluid should be fine.I paid about $2.50 a quart the last time I bought it. -KM http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1990/Repair/a604.htm I don't vouch for the content, but Google can be your friend, LOL.  SignatureKnifeblade_03 http://www.automotiveforums.com here it is again, i haven't hear much about the reason, but why Dex is scary? i used it on my 2001 nissan and on my 1993 passat, my Caravan 1989 3.0 auto+OD says on the dipstick to use Dextron. You guys seem to know about this, can you explain why it is not good for Caravan trans? what is going to happen if i use it, someone on this group said it will damage the trans in a few months, many times i saw here ppl stay away from Dex and choose ATF+3. what is going on? thanks Ilia > http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1990/Repair/a604.htm > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.automotiveforums.com It was explained to me that type 7176 was 'intoduced by Chrysler' as a requirement for the A604 transaxles. This fluid is a 'semi-synthetic', high temp formulation. As I have heard, since type 7176 was a 'Chrysler only' fluid for several years, they placed "use Dexron" on the dip stick as a temporary measure in case you needed to add fluid 'in the field'. It was not intended to be used for fluid changes. Severl transmission shops insist that Dexron is the correct fluid for the A604, hence doing this job myself. > here it is again, > i haven't hear much about the reason, but why Dex is scary? i used it [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > http://www.automotiveforums.com thanks for the info i have to check if mine has a A604, i saw in allpar.com web site the explanation, same thing you are saying. shoot, and i filled mine just recently with Dex3. bummer > It was explained to me that type 7176 was 'intoduced by Chrysler' as a > requirement for the A604 transaxles. This fluid is a 'semi-synthetic', [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > > > > > http://www.automotiveforums.com In article <1152288965.731995.315630@s16g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, > here it is again, > i haven't hear much about the reason, but why Dex is scary? Because it is the wrong fluid for a Chrysler 4 speed automatic transaxle. > i used it > on my 2001 nissan and on my 1993 passat, my Caravan 1989 3.0 auto+OD > says on the dipstick to use Dextron. The Dexron dipstick script has long ago been superseded by a TSB that says to use ATF+3 or better fluid. > You guys seem to know about this, can you explain why it is not good > for Caravan trans? Because it is the wrong fluid. > what is going to happen if i use it, someone on this > group said it will damage the trans in a few months, Very likely. > many times i saw > here ppl stay away from Dex and choose ATF+3. > what is going on? What's going on is; Dexron is the wrong fluid. Dexron is fine in the old three-speed automatics, but not for four-speed automatics. Transmissions are designed by the engineers with a specific fluid in mind, and transmission fluids have many different technical characteristics. Using any form of Dexron will cause poor shifting and ultimately transmission damage to any Chrysler automatic with overdrive (i.e., four-speed and higher). Always stick to proper transmission fluids and never rely just on what mechanics tell you, no matter how well-intentioned they are. And never trust a mechanic to put the right fluid in your vehicle -- ask questions and insist on what you know is the proper fluid. You may want to supervise them from outside the service bay! Of course, there is an exception to every rule. I believe the four-speed automatic used with the 4.0L Jeep engines in the Cherokees and Grand Cherokees used Dexron fluid. While Jeeps are Chrysler products, that particular transmission is an Aisin-Warner model also used in Toyotas and other vehicles. The recommendation above still stands -- find out the proper transmission fluid for your vehicle and stick to it. > here it is again, > i haven't hear much about the reason, but why Dex is scary? i used it [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> http://www.automotiveforums.com billccm Wrote: > Hello All: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Thanks for any help, and have a nice day, Bill Kmathenson had some good info on the reusable pan gasket and fluid. The problem with quick lubes they have gone flush crazy. And some even do not even change the filter just flush away and use the same type of fluid out of the same barell for everything. Newer cars and newer transmisssions take special transmission fluid and different fluid change procedures. Check your dip stick and owners manual first. And a note on cry transmissions most but not all have gone to or cry recommends changing them over to the ATX+4 cry transmission fluid. I did it on my own 98 town and country and could tell a difference in the shifting for the good. Check with the dealer to be sure what ones need it. One a 91 I see no special reason to change it over to ATX+4. Just a filter and fluid change will do it cry 7176 or a good ATX+3 Good luck MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com Bill,Just in case you have 100,000 miles or more on your A604 it's better NOT to change the fluid anymore. To do so will only hasten it's inevitable failure. I was told that by every trans tech I've ever known.Ron I have changed my transmission fluid every 30K miles since I bought the car new (almost 16 years ago). This will be it's third trans fluid change (90K miles), and the trans, which is nicknamed "a-sick-oh-four" due to it's problems, has been trouble free, so far. I am not sure if 30K fluid changes has contributed to my trouble free experience, but I will continue. I understand what you are saying about causing failure after a trans fluid change; I think these 'flushes' cause some harm. The way it has been explained to me, unless you can flush twice with two new trans filters, the flush does not make a "100%" fluid exchange, and the flush itself spreads some debris past the filter, etc. Thanks for the advice, take care, Bill > Bill,Just in case you have 100,000 miles or more on your A604 it's > better NOT to change the fluid anymore. To do so will only hasten it's > inevitable failure. I was told that by every trans tech I've ever > known.Ron > ...The way it has > been explained to me, unless you can flush twice with two new trans > filters, the flush does not make a "100%" fluid exchange, and the flush > itself spreads some debris past the filter, etc. That sounds like a simple pan drop (not a true flush) which only replaces about half the fluid. You can replace the filter (pan drop) and then start the engine with the tranny cooler return line disconnected while you add fluid. You can get it all that way including what's in the torque converter. There's no more disturbance of debris that way than driving the vehicle normally (as opposed to a pressure flush), and you get all the fluid replaced. I see little risk there. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > I have changed my transmission fluid every 30K miles since I bought the > car new (almost 16 years ago). This will be it's third trans fluid [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > inevitable failure. I was told that by every trans tech I've ever > > known.Ron I think you should go ahead with the change, I am curious to know if the transmission controller has ever been replaced. Being that you have a 1991, it probably has the controller that is not flashable. It would probably be a good idea to get the newer one if it doesn't have it already, and program it with the latest code. -KM Bill,> I agree with changing the fluid at 90K but I wouldn't do it at 120K. Just my $.02.> Ron In 1997, right before the 7/70 warranty expired, my dealer performaned several TSBs and updates to the transmission. The label under the hood says "Chrysler Software Update" and shows a date of 12-1-1997. I have had the trans serviced at 30K intervals since new; no flush, just a fluid and filter. I am off to the dealer at lunch to order the re-usable gasket. I'll tackle the fluid change in two weeks when I have some time off work. Thank you all for your advice! Bill > > I have changed my transmission fluid every 30K miles since I bought the > > car new (almost 16 years ago). This will be it's third trans fluid [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > -KM billccm Wrote: > I have changed my transmission fluid every 30K miles since I bought the > car new (almost 16 years ago). This will be it's third trans fluid [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > inevitable failure. I was told that by every trans tech I've ever > > known.Ron Right on there with the regular service. People that keep there transmission serviced have a lot leess trouble that the people wo do not. Good luck MT. SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com OK, back from the local Chrysler dealer's part dept. I am not sure if they were joking with me, but they said "Good Luck finding that part....our database shows it is on national back order......" They did give me a few dealer's phone numbers to try, but none are local. So, again, my question to the Chrysler A604 owners; Is it worth the trouble to find this gasket, or shall I go with a rubber gasket that comes with a NAPA, or Advance Auto filter? Thanks for your help and time in replys. Bill > billccm Wrote: > > I have changed my transmission fluid every 30K miles since I bought the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > http://www.automotiveforums.com billccm Wrote: > OK, back from the local Chrysler dealer's part dept. I am not sure if > they were joking with me, but they said "Good Luck finding that [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > > > http://www.automotiveforums.com Yes it is a good reusable gasket. Good for 3-5 fluid/filter changes. You can silicone the pan back on but it is hard to glue up without transmission fluid running down in the glue. I let them drain overnight and then glue up and let set a while longer for silcone to set up. Cry does have some good black silicone for transmission pans. And I use import gray silicone a lot of times. And the rubber gaskets that come with the filter kits just are not as good. Most will seap or squeeze out some. Real pains. Try some local parts places or transmisson shops. For the reusable gasket. www.transtarindustries.com or call transtar 1-800 359 3339 MT SignatureMT-2500 http://www.automotiveforums.com > billccm Wrote: > > OK, back from the local Chrysler dealer's part dept. I am not sure if [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > And the rubber gaskets that come with the filter kits just are not as > good. I've never had a problem with the ones I've bought. Get the trans filter and gasket from a decent parts supplier like NAPA and you won't have a problem. The one critical thing though is you must use a torque wrench and make sure the gasket is properly torqued. The factory manual torque figures are low - this is to prevent the gasket from being squished unevenly and causing seepage. The one unfortunate thing about this though is that because the figures are so low, sometimes one or two of the bolts will back themselves out. You want to get under the vehicle a month or so later and check all of the bolts again with the torque wrench. Once they have been setting in the trans for a while they will stop doing this. DONT exceed the torque value or it -will- leak. Ted Here is the TSB for this reusable gasket: A/T Pan Gasket - Reusable Design/Installation NUMBER: 21-05-99 Rev. A GROUP: Transmission DATE: Sep. 03, 1999 THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-05-99 DATED MARCH 5, 1999 WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE ADDITIONAL PARTS AND MODEL COVERAGE. SUBJECT: Reusable Automatic Transmission Oil Pan Gasket OVERVIEW: This bulletin announces availability and installation of a reusable automatic transmission oil pan gasket. MODELS: 1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/LeBaron Sedan 1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon **1989** - 1993 (AG) Daytona **1989** - 1995 (AJ) LeBaron Coupe/LeBaron Convertible **1989** - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Shadow Convertible/Sundance 1990 - 1991 (AQ) Chrysler Maserati TC 1989 - 1995 (AS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager 1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue 1993 - 1995 (ES) Chrysler Voyager (European Market) 1995 - **2000** (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon 1996 - **2000** (GS) Chrysler Voyager (European Market) 1995 - **2000** (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze 1996 - **2000** (JX) Sebring Convertible **1993 - 2000 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/New Yorker/LHS/Vision/300M** 1996 - **2000** (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager **1995 - 2000 (PL) Neon** **1997 - 2000 (PR) Prowler** DISCUSSION: A reusable silicone gasket has been developed to replace the RTV method of sealing the automatic transmission oil pan. Due to more frequent Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) change intervals and the possibility of the fluid foaming if it comes in contact with uncured RTV it is recommended that this gasket be used in all applications. NOTE: THIS GASKET CAN BE REUSED UP TO THREE (3) TIMES. PARTS REQUIRED: **1 05011113AA Gasket, Transmission Oil Pan, 31TH** **1 05011114AA Gasket, Transmission Oil Pan, 42LE** 1 05011115AA Gasket, Transmission Oil Pan, 41TE/AE POLICY: INFORMATION ONLY POLICY: Information Only > > billccm Wrote: > > > OK, back from the local Chrysler dealer's part dept. I am not sure if [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] > > Ted Just completed the job! Not too bad, but took me almost three hours start to finish (including clean up), and cost me a little under $60 including MOPAR gasket and filter, and four quarts of Valvoline ATF+4. I loosened the pan bolts slowly all around, and let it drip for almost 20 minutes, the loosened the bolts some more, and it let it drip for another 20 minutes. Then the pan and filter came off without too much mess. The pan had a thin rubber gasket from it's last fluid change, so no RTV to scrap off. The only item of concern is that the aftermarket filter that was in place was hard to pull out, and the new replacement MOPAR filter fit in a bit loosely. YES, it did have the orange O-ring on the replacement filter; it just did not feel as snug as the filter I removed. Anti-seize back on all the bolt threads. I torqued all bolts to 18Nm. I had one quart of ATF+3 that I put back in first, since I read that they are backwards compatible with ATF+4. I cycled the gear selector from R to D while the engine was running parked and added fluid to FULL. Going for a test drive. Thanks for all of your advice! Bill > Here is the TSB for this reusable gasket: > [quoted text clipped - 144 lines] > > > > Ted |
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