Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / September 2006
Hi/lo beams
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Ken Weitzel - 09 Sep 2006 04:32 GMT Hi...
Wonder if anyone happens to know, or if not possibly someone else with a 94 lhs would at their convenience do a little experiment for me...
Rarely drive late night anymore; today I did. Low beams were acceptable, but then I got on virtually deserted highway, and used the high beams. Not too good at all, in fact I preferred the lows.
Noticed that if I gently pulled the stalk, as a signal perhaps. Not all the way to click it, just enough that I might be asking an approaching car to lower theirs, that all 4 (2 low, 2 high) came on, and it looked good.
However, pulling further to actually switch to high, caused (I think) the lows to go out.
Question is when high is selected should all 4 filaments be on, or only the 2 highs?
Can't find any info on this, so appreciate any advice on whether or not I have something to fix :)
Thanks, and take care.
Ken
aarcuda69062 - 09 Sep 2006 06:21 GMT > Hi... > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Ken Normal.
Daniel J. Stern - 09 Sep 2006 06:34 GMT > 94 lhs
> Rarely drive late night anymore; today I did. Low beams were > acceptable That makes one of you. The rest of the world thinks these headlamps are garbage, 'cause they are!
> Noticed that if I gently pulled the stalk, as a signal > perhaps. Not all the way to click it, just enough that > I might be asking an approaching car to lower theirs, > that all 4 (2 low, 2 high) came on, and it looked good. Great way to burn up the woefully undersized headlamp wiring.
> However, pulling further to actually switch to high, > caused (I think) the lows to go out. Correct. That headlamp uses one 9007 high/low beam bulb on each side of the car (not counting the useless inboard auxiliary lights).Two-filament headlight bulbs are pressurized to about 10 atmospheres COLD. Basic chemistry (PV=nRT) tells us what happens when a gas is heated but not permitted to expand: The pressure rises! They are not designed to handle the heat (or the current on the common filament support lead) of running both filaments at the same time for more than very brief periods during beam changeover or headlight flashing. Doing so carries the very real risk of the bulb grenading inside the headlamp, destroying it. Some people who think they're clever wire it up this way anyhow, and the "Brite Box" people have made a business out of this "clever" (not) modification. Running the lows with the highs can only be done safely if the lows are produced by different bulbs than the highs.
> Question is when high is selected should all 4 filaments be on, or only the 2 highs? Which version of the headlamps do you have?. The early-production '93-'95 units have a reflector lamp inboard of the main high/low headlamp; the late-production '95-'97 units have a projector lamp (with round "eyeball" appearance) inboard. Neither of them is especially effective. Are the lenses marked SAE F, SAE Y or SAE Z?
Art - 09 Sep 2006 07:15 GMT Hi Dan,
I know you are no fan of the Honda's but my wife bought herself a 2005 Accord Hybrid. The low headlights are terrible. Probably not as bad as my old 94 LHS but darn close. Do you have any suggestions (other than trade it in) to improve them?
Thanks,
Art
>> 94 lhs > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > round "eyeball" appearance) inboard. Neither of them is especially > effective. Are the lenses marked SAE F, SAE Y or SAE Z? Daniel J. Stern - 09 Sep 2006 16:42 GMT > Hi Dan, > > I know you are no fan of the Honda's[/quote] Not necessarily true. I don't want one, but it would be silly to deny they are well engineered and built.
> a 2005 Accord Hybrid. The low headlights are terrible. American Honda took a decent optic and defocused it for what they perceive as American preferences in lighting. Don't ask me, it doesn't make any sense to me, either.
> Do you have any suggestions (other than trade it in) to improve them? That's one case in which there *is* actually a "magic bulb" solution. The 9011-9012 HIR bulbs do a good job of bringing those headlamps up to snuff without causing negative consequences. Go send e-mail to sales@candlepowerinc.com to get set up.
Also, American Honda did their usual dance with the rear lamp clusters on the '05, changing the turn signals to red for "model year identification" and because "Americans prefer red turn signals" (were you ever asked to vote?). Do your wife and your future insurance costs a favor: Swap on a set of '03-'04 outer rear lamp clusters (w/amber turn signals). Neither difficult nor expensive to buy, see http://tinyurl.com/rvwfz . You'll need the amber 7440A bulbs, which can be tricky to find locally; Candlepower's got those, too.
Please don't respond on here; I'm almost never in Usenet any longer.
DS
Art - 09 Sep 2006 17:06 GMT If things worked right I sent you a private "thank you" email but just in case they didn't, and you happen to check the usenet.... Thanks!
>> Hi Dan, >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > DS Ken Weitzel - 11 Sep 2006 01:58 GMT >> Hi Dan, >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Please don't respond on here; I'm almost never in Usenet any longer. Hi Daniel...
Tried to write you directly, it bounces. (fyi, it 550's with your name doesn't exist, but that you may exist at umich.edu; however that too bounces)
What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam halogens?
Worked great, 10 bucks and 5 minutes to replace them... and even it they were aerodynamically inferior, makers could have put a plastic cover over them.
And it doesn't matter much to me, rarely go out much at all, and even rarer for it to be after dark. However, grandkid 2 doors away is eligible to try for her "go by herself" class license next month, and if she succeeds will almost certainly want to use it to go to school. Here in Manitoba, Canada in the worst of the winter it'll be dark(ish) before she gets home, so...
Sadly can't find any SAE designation on the lenses, I'll send a url to a pic it it's helpful, perhaps you can recognize it.
And I sure don't understand the optics, never thought of putting a light source *behind* a reflector :) When I look in there, it looks to me like there's nothing but a black hole :) Sort of like someone had stolen the bulb, or at a minimum hadn't seated it in it's socket :)
Thanks for all your help, and take care.
Ken
Steve - 11 Sep 2006 14:44 GMT > What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam halogens? The MTV-era kids styling cars today don't think they look "kewl" enough.
And the MBAs running the car companies overrule the engineers in favor of the design kids.
DeserTBoB - 11 Sep 2006 18:46 GMT >> What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam halogens? > >The MTV-era kids styling cars today don't think they look "kewl" enough. > >And the MBAs running the car companies overrule the engineers in favor >of the design kids. <snip> AMEN! This trend started with the rectangular sealed beams, and the "design kids" had the legal beagles at the Big 3 pay off the NTSB and other government watchdogs to allow inferior headlighting on newer cars. I did a comparison between a new 300 and my old M-body tank with quad rectangles using Sylvania "Silver" halogens. You can see a LOT more with the old system...a LOT more.
Joe - 12 Sep 2006 04:01 GMT >>> What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam >>> halogens? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > with quad rectangles using Sylvania "Silver" halogens. You can see a > LOT more with the old system...a LOT more. It's dangerous now headlights are so bad. Chryslers seem to be the worst, but maybe it's just my Chryslers. I really suppose I should add a few old-skool headlightz to my LHS so I can see where I'm going.
duty-honor-country - 30 Sep 2006 00:17 GMT > >>> What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam > >>> halogens? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > but maybe it's just my Chryslers. I really suppose I should add a few > old-skool headlightz to my LHS so I can see where I'm going. WHOA THERE big fella, WHATEVER you do, do NOT listen to a single word of advice that this "desertbob" douche says- he has been proven wrong about 10 times in the last 24 hours- his "tech tips" will destroy your car !
Charlie Deludo - 30 Sep 2006 00:25 GMT > > >>> What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam > > >>> halogens? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > about 10 times in the last 24 hours- his "tech tips" will destroy your > car ! Please troll somewhere else.
Daniel J. Stern - 28 Sep 2006 22:40 GMT > I did a comparison between a new 300 and my old M-body tank > with quad rectangles using Sylvania "Silver" halogens. You can see a > LOT more with the old system...a LOT more. That depends on which new 300 you compared: The one with halogen headlamps, or with Xenon units.
Also, Sylvania Silverstar sealed beams and headlamp bulbs are garbage. Your seeing with them is significantly worse than with even just regular sealed beams-not better.
Count Floyd - 28 Sep 2006 23:03 GMT > > I did a comparison between a new 300 and my old M-body tank > > with quad rectangles using Sylvania "Silver" halogens. You can see a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Your seeing with them is significantly worse than with even just > regular sealed beams-not better. Just to piggyback on this: What replacement bulbs would be recommended for the PT Cruiser. My wife's 2005 PT Convertible has terrible headlights. My 6v 1940 Chrysler has better lighting!
 Signature "What do you mean there's no movie?"
Daniel J. Stern - 29 Sep 2006 21:53 GMT > What replacement bulbs would be > recommended for the PT Cruiser. My wife's 2005 PT Convertible has > terrible headlights. You have no *genuine* bulb upgrade options. Sylvania will sell you their reduced-life, reduced-output, increased-glare, increased-price Silverstar bulbs (yippee...), but because the US-market PT Cruiser headlamp uses the straight-base variant of the 9005 high beam and 9006 low beam bulbs, you're kind of stuck choosing between phony "upgrades" with blue glass (Silverstar and various others) or standard replacement bulbs. I agree with you, the US-market PT Cruiser's headlamps leave a fair amount to be desired. The low beams are amongst the "least worst" of the recent Chrysler offerings, but they're not great and the high beams might as well not exist for all the good they do.
The rest-of-world PT Cruiser got better lamps with more efficient, higher-output H7 bulbs. Those lamps go by on ebay.de from time to time, or can be sourced new if you make contact with an overseas Chrysler dealer and order one 5288767AI and one 5288766AH. You'd almost certainly also need two 5288 904AB headlamp levelling motors in order to be able to adjust the aim of the export lamps, but it's possible the US-market manual adjusting screw assembly would pop in place where the motorised one is intended to go -- I'm not sure on that one.
Easier, less costly and more effective to buy and install the Morette headlamp kit for the PT, *if* you can stomach the appearance (some love it, some hate it):
http://www.morette.com/products/HEADLIGHTS/CHRYSLER/hl_cy_ptcruiser.htm (shoot me an e-mail, dastern (at) torque (dot) net if you are having trouble finding the Morette kit in North America.)
DeserTBoB - 29 Sep 2006 22:25 GMT >Easier, less costly and more effective to buy and install the Morette >headlamp kit for the PT, *if* you can stomach the appearance (some love [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >(shoot me an e-mail, dastern (at) torque (dot) net if you are having >trouble finding the Morette kit in North America.) <snip> Hmmm...it oddly makes the PT look like a....1961 Newport! It HAS to be better than USA stock, though. The 300 headlamps are equally bad, but I only saw them on a test drive. I did feel like I was "flying blind" with low beams, however, with two little white hot spots dancing on the asphalt ahead..
Daniel J. Stern - 28 Sep 2006 22:35 GMT > Hi Daniel... > > Tried to write you directly, it bounces. dastern (at) torque (dot) net will reach me.
> What in the heck was wrong with the good old 4 lamp sealed beam halogens? The round sealed beam systems weren't necessarily excellent, but in their day they were better than many of the replaceable-bulb systems of the last 2 decades. The 7" round one-per-side sealed beam system gave better low beam performance than the 5-3/4" round two-per-side, while the latter gave better high beam performance. Beam focus and formation worsened when rectangular sealed beams were permitted, and then worsened considerably when halogen sealed beams replaced regular ones. Glare became a problem due to the sloppy focus, but light color got whiter, and that's the only thing the marketeers care about. Shortly thereafter, in the early '80s, Ford and Sylvania collectively scoffed at the stupid rest of the world's headlamp system and foisted their own garbageful made-in-America "innovation" on us all, that was the 9004 bulb and polycarbonate plastic lenses on thermoplastic semi-sealed reflector housings. We all know how well (not) that worked out, and we all *knew* how it was going to work out before they did it: England had tried almost exactly the same course of development before giving up on it and going to the rest-of-world ECE headlamp standard in the 1970s. But, y'know, America's right and the stupid rest of the world is wrong, so we got stuck with another couple decades of weak beams with piss-poor focus and lots of glare. Happened again with GM's abominable mini sealed beams in 1986. Happened again with Ford and Sylvania's 9007 bulb in 1992, and again with Ford and Sylvania's DC HID system in 1996.
There are some very good replaceable-bulb headlamps on the North American market, but good headlamp performance isn't required, so you're stuck with whatever the automaker chooses to give you, and a great deal has been lost since we abandoned the requirement for standard-size headlamps: Headlamp replacement cost has soared, meaning people drive around with damaged or degraded lamps rather than spend hundreds of dollars for new lamps that'll just degrade again. Owners are locked into whatever level of optical engineering and build quality the automaker selected when the car was new, whereas with standardized lamps you got the newest innovations whenever you replaced a headlamp, and economies of scale kept costs down. The sealed-beam construction itself makes a great deal of sense for the harsh service environment on the front of a car: it is proof against environmental degradation and willful tampering (blue bulbs, overwattage bulbs, etc.). But, the implementation is another question altogether: there are lots of ways to make a bad, cheap and legal sealed beam, and that's pretty much the only kind you can get any more. GE's NightHawk sealed beams are the *only* ones I'd buy now, for sure. Sylvania's entire line is poorly made and produces poorly-focused, low-performance beams-the worst being their heavily-hyped, overpriced, underperforming SilverStar items.
> even it they were aerodynamically inferior, makers could have put a plastic cover over them. Well, no, because Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 prohibits covers or styling elements, even transparent ones, in front of operating headlamps. That's why the transparent plastic covers on the Dodge St. Regis of about '79-'81 swung up/down out of the way of the beam when the headlamps were turned on.
> Sadly can't find any SAE designation on the lenses, I'll send a url to a pic it it's helpful, perhaps > you can recognize it. Don't know what we're talking about here, but sure, I'm pretty good at automotive lighting device ID. Send your photos to the address provided above.
DS
Starflex - 28 Sep 2006 23:12 GMT Whhops...sorry, I have a question...but you have a "strange" name: are the "same" Daniel Stern of the web site "Daniel Stern Lighting" ?
DeserTBoB - 28 Sep 2006 23:59 GMT >The 7" round one-per-side sealed beam system gave >better low beam performance than the 5-3/4" round two-per-side, while >the latter gave better high beam performance. <snip> True.
>Beam focus and formation >worsened when rectangular sealed beams were permitted, and then >worsened considerably when halogen sealed beams replaced regular ones. >Glare became a problem due to the sloppy focus, but light color got >whiter, and that's the only thing the marketeers care about. <snip> Again true. There was a trickle of complaints when rectangles were permitting and started showing up around '76, but they were well justified. The LA Times did a story on it back then, saying that rectangles offered 1/3 the lighted area on low beam as the 6001/6002 quad system in use since 1958. The only improvement offered by the quad system was on high beams.
> Shortly >thereafter, in the early '80s, Ford and Sylvania collectively scoffed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >tried almost exactly the same course of development before giving up on >it and going to the rest-of-world ECE headlamp standard in the 1970s. <snip> Again very true.
>But, y'know, America's right and the stupid rest of the world is wrong, >so we got stuck with another couple decades of weak beams with [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >being their heavily-hyped, overpriced, underperforming SilverStar >items. <snip> The later model Silver Stars with the segmented reflector work a lot better than previous offerings...which, in a rectangular bulb, ain't all that hot to begin with. The original Silver Stars had the same old clipped parabolic reflectors, and were dismal, but still better than crap marketed by Wagner at the time. I went to the segmented Silver Stars because I got tired of not seeing anything at night! However, when I drove a 300 at night, I was immeidately taken aback...it looked like I was driving in the dark with a couple of tightly cropped "hot spots" in front of me. The Sylvanias I have provide a pretty good horizontal fan beam, but as the previous poster said, doing anything with the rectangulars is sort of putting lipstick on a pig. The SS's "look" better to most, because the light temperature on this is fairly high, in the "green" area. Previous Sylvanias I had went into the garbage...worst focus I'd ever seen, bar none, and they had a real propensity to leak, making focus even worse
Interesting as well is the fact that I can't find GE headlamps anywhere in my area, else I'd try them..
Joe - 29 Sep 2006 12:09 GMT >>The 7" round one-per-side sealed beam system gave >>better low beam performance than the 5-3/4" round two-per-side, while [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > Interesting as well is the fact that I can't find GE headlamps > anywhere in my area, else I'd try them.. Got my Nighthawks @ Wal-Mart.
Regards, Joe
Daniel J. Stern - 29 Sep 2006 22:28 GMT > The later model Silver Stars with the segmented reflector work a lot > better than previous offerings Hmmm. I have a pretty direct line to product news out of Sylvania, and I keep a sharp eye out for new or modified product lines, but I haven't seen any segmented-reflector sealed beam headlamps out of Sylvania or any of the other makers. Your M-body would take H4656 high/low and H4651 high-beam units, and as far as I'm aware, the only Silverstar beams in those sizes are the parabolic-reflector, lens-optic type. Show us a picture or weblink to what you bought and let's see what it is. (Even if Sylvania suddenly saw the light and produced an optically-accurate reflector-optic range of sealed beams, if they are sold under the Silverstar name, they have that light-stealing, glare-increasing, life-cutting blue glass coating, which is a silly marketeering gimmick that makes the lamp a nonstarter as far as meaningful seeing performance improvement goes).
> However, when I drove a 300 at night, I was immeidately taken > aback...it looked like I was driving in the dark with a couple of > tightly cropped "hot spots" in front of me. And short seeing distance, owing to Chrysler's insistence on cheap headlamps using VOR low beam patterns instead of putting more money into good optics and specifying VOL low beam cutoffs. The VOR is the type with a cutoff at the top of the right side of the low beam (it's allowed to extend horizontally over to the left, too, but it has to be present at the top of the right side). This is basically a straight-across cutoff, fog lamp style, aimed at the horizon. You can get decent width, but in-lane beam reach is often poor because there's very little light above horizontal even on the side of the beam facing away from traffic.
VOL, the other visually-aimed low beam pattern allowed in the US, is conceptually similar to the rest-of-world European ECE low beam: the cutoff extends leftward from the top-center of the low beam, and is aimed slightly below the horizon. To the right of center, the cutoff either dissolves, steps upward, or sweeps upward at an angle. This means in-lane seeing distance can be longer with thoughtful optical design, because the upstep/upsweep throws light well down the right side of your own lane. Europe has used low beams like this since 1952 without a problem (England since '73, Australia since '71, Japan since '90...). But when Chrysler put VOL headlamps on the Pacifica, lazy dealers were refusing to educate customers who thought they were seeing the left light aimed lower than the right light (they were actually seeing the stair-step cutoff produced by BOTH lights). Rather than put a paragraph and diagram in the owner's manual or put out a service bulletin, Chrysler bitched to lampmakers that VOL low beams were costing them too much money in warranty headlamp re-aims and started specifying VORs for almost all their headlamps.
> The Sylvanias I have provide a pretty good horizontal fan beam, I'm still keenly interested to see what it is you have there.
> The SS's "look" better to most, because the light > temperature on this is fairly high, in the "green" area. Well, filtered towards the blue (not the green) by coating the bulb glass blue. This suppresses the yellow light which is most effective at making the human visual system work, but allows the marketeers to babble about "closer to natural sunlight" and "the look of expensive HID" and blahbitty blah blah blah.
> Previous Sylvanias I had went into the garbage...worst focus I'd ever seen, bar > none I believe it. Though, to be perfectly fair, sealed beam headlamps in general aren't very precise optical instruments under the best of conditions, and most of them are poorly made on old tooling nowtimes. For anyone who cares, here is a report I wrote up after doing some dissective analysis of various sealed beams a couple years ago:
This is a report of the results of disassembly and analysis of several different 200mm x 142mm (2B1) rectangular sealed beams.
GE has recently released a new line ("Nighthawk") of high performance bulbs and sealed beams. Their beam formation is certainly better in several respects than other sealed beams: Overall focus is definitely better, the hot spot is reasonably well shaped and placed and is intense, and the beam is considerably wider. There is no efficacy-reducing blue glass in the lens, reflector or burner envelope (such blue glass is found in e.g. Sylvania Silverstar and Wagner TruView).
Foreground light is still rather lacking with the NightHawk, but the bigger inadequacy is that a mask is not used during aluminization, so the optically useless floor and ceiling of the lamp are covered with shiny stuff, same as the parabolic reflector. Therefore, light from the filaments hits the floor and ceiling and is emitted from the headlamp as optically uncontrolled upward stray light, which causes glare and backdazzle in bad weather.
In the 1970s when the idea of rectangular sealed beam headlamps was being discussed as a possibility, there was scarcely any objection to this big increase in stray light which does not exist with round lamps that have no floors and ceilings. The only concerns voiced were to do with marketing and interchangeability. This is probably because halogen sealed beams were still far in the future at the time, and it is much easier to put an effective filament shield (rain cap, fog cap) on filaments that are not enclosed in a halogen capsule. The tungsten sealed beams had beam patterns with a great deal of uplight, but very little vertical stray light, because the filament shielding was good. Halogen sealed beams all rely on the poor shielding job done by the blacktop at the forward end of the burner. Not that an effective bulb shield *couldn't* be incorporated into a halogen sealed beam -- it's been done in European-spec sealed beams in the past, and Koito made some DOT H6052s with bulb shields for Mitsubishi in the mid- 1980s -- but nobody does so in current-production sealed beams.
One of the goals of this experiment was to mask the floor, ceiling and other optically-useless and distorted areas to observe the effect on glare and backdazzle.
The lenses were removed from the reflectors of a GE standard 6052, a GE NightHawk H6054NH and a Sylvania XtraVision H6054XV.
NB- GE stopped making nonhalogen sealed beam headlamps some time back; everything uses a halogen burner now, even the ones in "standard tungsten" boxes. These lamps now use twin-transverse-filament halogen burners with the wattage and flux adjusted to approximate the characteristics of the previous nonhalogen assemblies. As is the case with most halogen sealed beams, beam focus and stray light are worse than tungsten non-halogen beam units, and they suffer from all the problems endemic to most US sealed beam headlamps: Poor beam focus with excessive uplight and upward stray light.
The unlensed beam of the 6052 is a very poorly focused diagonal(!) oblong of "blotchy" light (gradients/streaks within the oblong). There's just no way to get anything even remotely approaching a well-defined beam pattern out of this. The best one can do is use the lens optics to shift enough light away from the upward-leftward area to comply minimally with the glare maxima. Heel distortion in the reflector was evident and can't have been helping any, either. Then add in the aforementioned floor and ceiling reflections *plus* light escaping the burner and travelling directly through the lens, and the resultant beam pattern is a sick joke.
Next, the Night Hawk H6054NH. I applied power and examined the unlensed beam. These lamps use a burner with C8/C8 twin axial filaments -- essentially an HB5 burner of 65/55w, emitting an estimated 1400/1100 lumens high/low beam. The unlensed beam itself was very impressive: a tight, centrally-focused round spot of light with moderate "fingers" upwards and downwards. Not so impressive was the amount of stray light coming primarily from the reflectorized floor, directly and via the reflectorized ceiling, also directly from the filaments (see bulb shield comments above).
I used some high-heat-resistant matte black paint on the lamp's floor, ceiling, distorted reflector heel directly behind the burner, burner legs and grommets, and the small distorted areas of the reflector directly in front of the locating lugs. The resultant unlensed beam pattern exhibited considerably less stray light outside the beam pattern, while the beam pattern itself was scarcely changed (visually -- no photogonio range available).
Next, I took a look at a Sylvania Xtravision H6054XV headlamp. This lamp uses a twin-transverse C6/C6 burner -- essentially an HB1 burner but with a 65/55w high/low filament pair emitting an estimated 1300/1000 lumens. The beam pattern from the assembly is very poorly formed and focused. The hot zone is large, poorly defined and of low peak intensity, there is a large and intense vertical spike of light, absolutely zero cutoff and *very* high levels of upward stray and flare light outside the beam pattern.
Therefore, I was surprised when I separated the lens from the reflector to find that the unlensed beam is very tight and well focused -- a properly oriented (horizontal and square with the vertical and horizontal) "bowtie" of light as one might expect to see from a transverse filament placed on the focus of a parabolic reflector. Stray light levels remained fairly high owing to near-heel distortions in the reflector and ghost images (reflections of the transverse filaments in the burner envelope glass, subsequently picked up and distributed by the reflector).
I used matte black paint on the floor and ceiling, the distorted reflectorized area of the heel, and the burner "legs". This reduced reflected upward stray light considerably, but a considerable amount still remained since the levels were initially very high and ghost images from transverse filaments cannot be really effectively be dealt with -- the only way to mitigate or eliminate them is to use a burner with spherical rather than tubular glass, and no such burners exist. Of course, as was the case with the GE NightHawk, the addition of black masking material to reflective but optically-useless areas of the reflector/housing did nothing to attenuate the stray light coming directly from the filaments. A halfway job of containing this light was effected by masking the inside of the lens rim, but a bulb shield is really the only way to do the whole job.
Prescription factors in beam formation were verified by placing different lenses in front of different reflectors. Using the lens from the standard nothing-special GE H6052 headlamp with the *reflector-burner* from the Sylvania H6054XV Xtravision headlamp resulted in a much better focused and formed beam pattern than from the Xtravision lens. Both of these lenses were designed for use with transverse filaments. Using the GE NightHawk lens in front of the Xtravision burner-reflector yielded a less well-formed beam (this lens was designed for axial filaments).
Using the Xtravision lens in front of the transverse-filament GE H6052 burner-reflector resulted in a poorly-focused, poorly-formed beam.
Conclusions:
Rectangular reflectors (those with floors and/or ceilings) need masks during the aluminization stage of production to keep shiny stuff off optically useless surfaces where it causes upward stray and glare light. Bulb shields are feasible and should be used. And, the Sylvania Xtravision lens prescription is garbage!
(NB- the Silverstar beams use Sylvania's standard lens, not an Xtravision type. Focus is just as poor, but differently so.)
> Interesting as well is the fact that I can't find GE headlamps anywhere in my area, else I'd try > them.. Do a websearch on H4656NH and you should turn up some sources. Or you could put in some decent H4s. Bosch makes good ones in your size format and they shouldn't be too hard to find.
DS
Art - 11 Sep 2006 03:50 GMT By the way your LHS probably has fog lights too. They are not very good either but might help when using brights if they stay on when brights turn on. My 94 LHS was sold a long time ago so I can't check for you.
> Hi... > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Ken Ken Weitzel - 11 Sep 2006 04:21 GMT > By the way your LHS probably has fog lights too. They are not very good > either but might help when using brights if they stay on when brights turn > on. My 94 LHS was sold a long time ago so I can't check for you. Hi Art...
Sounded like a great idea :) so I just went out to the driveway to check it out...
Unfortunately they go out with the high's, but that might be not too difficult to modify.
And while I'm here, have to correct my previous thought... looked into the headlight while it was on, and I see that the reflector goes much further back than I thought, so the bulb isn't behind the reflector at all. There's some kind of black shield around much of the bulb, along with the top of the bulb being black.
Not sure what I typed, seeing a lot of spots :)
Take care.
Ken
Bill Putney - 11 Sep 2006 04:27 GMT > ...looked > into the headlight while it was on, and I see that the reflector [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Not sure what I typed, seeing a lot of spots :) LOL!!
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Greg Houston - 15 Sep 2006 04:58 GMT > > By the way your LHS probably has fog lights too. They are not very good > > either but might help when using brights if they stay on when brights turn [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Unfortunately they go out with the high's, but that might > be not too difficult to modify. Aren't fog lights required to turn off when high beams are on? (Why would one turn on high beams in the fog anyway?)
Maybe you need some good driving lights, which only go on when high beams are on. Fog lights really should be turned off when it's not foggy and especially for oncoming traffic, since they have a diffused output that causes a lot of glare for oncoming cars, rather than an aimed beam of a headlight. Then again all of the car manufacturers seem to be pushing crappy "fog" lights that don't do much other than cause glare on the road and clueless buyers just leave them on in clear weather thinking they're special.
DeserTBoB - 15 Sep 2006 06:21 GMT >Aren't fog lights required to turn off when high beams are on? (Why would one >turn on high beams in the fog anyway?) <snip> A smart person wouldn't, that's for sure. In many states, driving with fogs lights AND high beams is a vehicle code violation.
>Maybe you need some good driving lights, which only go on when high beams are >on. Fog lights really should be turned off when it's not foggy and especially >for oncoming traffic, since they have a diffused output that causes a lot of >glare for oncoming cars, rather than an aimed beam of a headlight. <snip> NOTHING drives my blood pressure up more than some MORON approaching me with "driving lights" on, and that includes the toads on Harleys with their always-aimed-too-high driving light bar, too. I let 'em get good and close...and then give them all four Sylvania Silvers, illegal in itself.
>Then again >all of the car manufacturers seem to be pushing crappy "fog" lights that don't >do much other than cause glare on the road and clueless buyers just leave them >on in clear weather thinking they're special. <snip> They're the ones I have a special injury wish for. Here, a.shole...have a million candlepower spotlight in your right eye!
OEM "fog lamps" on cars I've seen from GM are all but useless, and are there for looks and an ego boost only. The ones I've seen on 300s seem to be more effective, but idiots leave them on when they're supposed to be OFF.
There is (or was, if not killed already by the aftermarket industry) a bill before the California Legislature already this year to make the use of "driving lights" illegal on two lane highways whenever within a mile of an approaching motorist, or a half mile of a followed one. Also, the limits for approaching and following high beams are also proposed to be lengthened. This is in response to a California Highway Patrol report that "driving lights" and late-to-dim high beams on new cars are an increasing cause of night blindness multi-car accidents. They also reommended making cell phone use by any moving driver illegal as well, but Cingular and Verizon put the brakes on that immediately through our less-than-bright kraut governor. It's back on the table again, despite AHHHnuld saying he'll veto it...if he survives November. The current round of "Arnold and George W. Bush" campaign commercials is having an immediate negative effect on AHHHnuld's poll numbers according to InstaPolls taken by the statewide Field Poll today. These are reaching the dumber side of the bell shaped curve; smarter people already know he's a fraud and a shill.
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