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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / December 2006Body Control Module 98 Caravan-problem?
I had to recently replace the body control module in my 98 Caravan because of a windshield wiper problem. I could only afford a used one which solved that problem but created another one. Now my total mileage (kilometerage?) reading has gone up from approx 170,000km to approx 220,000km immediately after replacing this. I had asked a mechanic if anything like this would happen and he assured me that it wouldn't. So I'm asking myself what could have caused this then? Is the mechanic wrong or what? Does this body control module hold or control the mileage data? Thanks in advance, Geo. You got it!!!The mileage is stored in the BCM and can only be reset by Chrysler and I dont mean the dealer. You lucky thats the only problem you got from swapping out those modules, I h ave heard alot more horry stories then what you have Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > You got it!!!The mileage is stored in the BCM and can only be reset by > Chrysler and I dont mean the dealer. You lucky thats the only problem you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech I just had the BCM replaced in a 1996 Granbd Voyager, and when I went to pick it up, I noticed some different behavior and I was wondering if you could give me some advice. When I open the door the "dinging" goes off like I have my lights on even though they are off. When I start the car, turn the lights on then turn the car off--- I turn off the lights and the parking lights stay on for a number of minutes--- It used to be the head lights. There are a couple of other things that are quirky, My question is could the part be installed incorrectly? Programmed incorrectly? I have more problems caused by the BCM going out Thanks Tom > > You got it!!!The mileage is stored in the BCM and can only be reset by > > Chrysler and I dont mean the dealer. You lucky thats the only problem you [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Tom I don't have the original thread but do see my last post stating that your lucky that's the only problem you got. Did you swap out a BCM with another vehicle or get this one thru Chrysler? Glenn I swapped it out with a new chrysler parg > > > You got it!!!The mileage is stored in the BCM and can only be reset by > > > Chrysler and I dont mean the dealer. You lucky thats the only problem [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Glenn > I swapped it out with a new chrysler parg > > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > > > Glenn well I didn't learn Parg in school , I have no idea what that means. If it is from another vehicle that was swapped you may have caused more problems then you had to begin with as I said before. And before you can continue to repair the problem you will need to install the correct BCM and may also have to replace any other module that has learned what the BCM requested. Glenn > I had to recently replace the body control module in my 98 Caravan > because of a windshield wiper problem. I could only afford a used one [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks in advance, > Geo. I was lucky on a vehicle of mine - lost 15k miles when the BCM was changed. Darn. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Bill you swapped out with a used one or Chrysler didnt program it right? Glenn > Bill you swapped out with a used one or Chrysler didnt program it right? > > Glenn Used one. BTW - when you say a dealer can't program it, but it has to be programed by Chrysler - how does one go about having that done, i.e., where does one take/send it, and how much does it cost? Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Once we determine that the BCM or cluster (which ever stores the mileage) is bad we play an order for that part with the mileage or the order slip. Chrysler will program the mileage in and send the part out. The vehicle is NOT allowed to be driven untill the new BCM is installed. My Cluster went out on me on my Durango in Florida over the week and I have been waiting since Monday for the replacement to get here. Glenn The last time I ordered a BCM the cost was about $350. My vehicle has the MAX care service contract with a rental up to 5 days so it doesnt effect me > The last time I ordered a BCM the cost was about $350. > My vehicle has the MAX care service contract with a rental up to 5 days so > it doesnt effect me So let's say I have a working BCM from the junk yard (such is the case with mine), and I simply want the mileage readout corrected. Do I send that BCM in and they program it and send it back and charge a nominal fee (if so, approx. how much would that be), *OR* do they take that in as a core and send me a refurb and charge me the full price, treating it the same as if the one I turned in was defective (not distinguishing between a simple mileage reset and a failed unit in need of repair)? Would they refuse to process it because I'm not having the dealer do any diagnostics and installation - all I want is mileage corrected for the vehicle in a BCM I obtained from a third-party source and carry in and out? Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Chrysler is not in the repair business so I would suspect they would only sell a new one > > The last time I ordered a BCM the cost was about $350. > > My vehicle has the MAX care service contract with a rental up to 5 days so [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') Well Bill, if it were that easy to send a BCM in to have the mileage changed wouldn't you think that alot of fraud would take place? If im going to sell my Truck that has 100k on it but want to back the mileage up to 50k I just send it in to Chrysler for a back up mileage? It don't work that way. They will not change the mileage from a BCM/cluster, The mileage that is on the RO and form that goes off to Chrysler has to be the same as what is on the component. Either way you will get a refurbished one. If you were to diagnose your own bcm/cluster and needed a new one I would think that the parts department would want the one from your vehicle first. The vehicle is not allowed to be driven when the module is ordered. In other words my truck (still waiting on my Cluster) is not allowed to accumulate mileage with the old part still on my truck. Glenn > Well Bill, if it were that easy to send a BCM in to have the mileage changed > wouldn't you think that alot of fraud would take place? If im going to sell [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Glenn I see your point. In one sense I see the purpose in all of this, but I think overall things have gotten way too complicated. The chances of having a problem that is prohibitively expensive to fix over the life of the vehicle have gotten way too high - forces a lot of otherwise capable vehicles into the junk yard way too early. I'm not sure we are making progress with this stuff any more - I'm thinking in particular of overly complex things like SKIM - the new problems they create are 10 times worse than what they are supposed to be solving. The lack of the reliability of the hardware to make it all happen just doesn't net out. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start having problems. right now they are in the dealers, Glenn > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start > having problems. right now they are in the dealers, > > Glenn Glenn, this is completely stupid. Some states - mine for example (Oregon) once the vehicle reaches 100K miles they REFUSE to put mileage on the title. They ONLY put mileage on the title if the title is changing hands if mileage is under 100K. In other words, the State of Oregon has determined that a vehicle after 100K had completely depreciated and a vehicle with 100K on it is worth the same money as a vehicle with 200K on it. Oregon did not used to do this but started doing it this way after they replaced the computer system at the DMV. (another horror story for a different post) I very strongly suspect that the feds don't require mileage tracking on vehicles after 100K which is why the state is getting away with it. From a value standpoint it is very true that at some point it makes no difference how much mileage is on a vehicle in terms of it's value. Would you for example pay any more for an old car with 220K miles on it vs an old car with 280K miles on it? Come off it. I think Chrysler is blowing smoke up your a.s with the scary stories about fraud in mileage. The real truth of the matter is that Chrysler is too damnded lazy to do it and would rather people pay them for a new module than charge a reasonable fee for programming an old one. Clearly all Chrysler would have to do is make a policy that they will change BMC mileage to anything you want as long as the mileage figure you want is over some figure - such as 150K - that is determined to be End Of Life for the vehicle. Or, they will change mileage if the change is less than 10% of the previous figure. You might try plugging some numbers into Kelly Blue Book sometime - you will find the higher the mileage you put in the less the vehicle value changes. You will also find that KBB doesen't rate vehicles older than 20 years. The market has spoken on this issue and has determined that when the mileage and age is high enough, that it makes no difference in value what the mileage is. Chrysler should be listening. Ted > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait > > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > vehicle reaches 100K miles they REFUSE to put mileage on the title. They > ONLY put Ok contact your congressman and tell him that > mileage on the title if the title is changing hands if mileage is under > 100K. In other > words, the State of Oregon has determined that a vehicle after 100K had > completely 2 different things > depreciated and a vehicle with 100K on it is worth the same money as a > vehicle with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > how much mileage is on a vehicle in terms of it's value. Would you for > example Purchase a used car service contract and extend the mileage and tell me it makes no difference to Chrysler. Google Chrysler....get the 800 number and call them ok? Chrysler and every other manufacturer have guildlines that they follow. this is one of them. we dont make the rules!!! > pay any more for an old car with 220K miles on it vs an old car with 280K > miles > on it? Come off it. Come off what???? > I think Chrysler is blowing smoke up your a.s with the scary stories about > fraud AS I said, google Chrysler, Make the all. let me know the results. > in mileage. The real truth of the matter is that Chrysler is too damnded > lazy to > do it and would rather people pay them for a new module than charge a > reasonable contact your local CP parts dealer Ted. > fee for programming an old one. Clearly all Chrysler would have to do is > make a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Ted > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait > > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > vehicle reaches 100K miles they REFUSE to put mileage on the title. They > ONLY put Ok contact your congressman and tell him that > mileage on the title if the title is changing hands if mileage is under > 100K. In other > words, the State of Oregon has determined that a vehicle after 100K had > completely 2 different things > depreciated and a vehicle with 100K on it is worth the same money as a > vehicle with [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > how much mileage is on a vehicle in terms of it's value. Would you for > example Purchase a used car service contract and extend the mileage and tell me it makes no difference to Chrysler. Google Chrysler....get the 800 number and call them ok? Chrysler and every other manufacturer have guidelines that they follow. this is one of them. we don't make the rules!!! > pay any more for an old car with 220K miles on it vs an old car with 280K > miles > on it? Come off it. Come off what???? > I think Chrysler is blowing smoke up your a.s with the scary stories about > fraud AS I said, google Chrysler, Make the all. let me know the results. > in mileage. The real truth of the matter is that Chrysler is too damnded > lazy to > do it and would rather people pay them for a new module than charge a > reasonable contact your local CP parts dealer Ted. > fee for programming an old one. Clearly all Chrysler would have to do is > make a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Ted > > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait > > > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Purchase a used car service contract and extend the mileage and tell me it > makes no difference to Chrysler. How many companies offer used car service contracts on vehicles that have 150K+ miles on them? Google Chrysler....get the 800 number and > call them ok? Chrysler and every other manufacturer have guidelines that > they follow. this is one of them. we don't make the rules!!! You are not listening which isn't unusual. OK, so Chrysler and it's service contract companies think a car value is still significantly affected by mileage even at the 100K Perfectly fine. > > Clearly all Chrysler would have to do is > > make a > > policy that they will change BMC mileage to anything you want as long as > the > > mileage figure you want is over some figure - such as 150K So, let me ask you - do you think that Chrysler and it's service contract companies still think car value is significantly affected by mileage at 150K miles? What about 200K? What about 250K? At some mileage point Chrysler's service contract companies aren't going to write a contract on a used vehicle. Do I know what that point is? No. Do I care? No. That is why I said the statement SOME FIGURE. I DO KNOW that that point exists. If you believe otherwise then please inform the group what service contract companies out there will write contracts on 250K+ mile cars and I'll go to the junkyard and collect a whole passel of them for $100 per car, put service contracts on them and just start driving them until they conk out. Within a year I'll get them all fixed for free according to your logic. So all Chrysler needs to do is say they will happily reprogram the BCM to ANY MILEAGE FIGURE THAT IS BEYOND THIS POINT for a fee. Did you not understand this? Did you not get it? Ted > > > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. > wait [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Ted Ted, Im not going to get into these Childish debates with you. I don't write the guidelines, I don't work for Chrysler, I just go by the rules and regulations. You make no sense at all.Do you want me to get you the 800 phone number from Chrysler so you can debate this with them? > Ted, Im not going to get into these Childish debates with you. I don't write > the guidelines, I don't work for Chrysler, I just go by the rules and > regulations. That's always your answer. In other words if you don't like abortion since it's currently the rule to allow it, you would not consider any discussion to change it and would tell people arguing to change it to shut up and go away. Ted > > > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. > wait [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Ted You lack common sense Ted, Think about, just think ok? fraud /fr?d/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[frawd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation -noun 1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage. 2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds. > > > > "damnnickname" <damnnickname@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f6f86a5cf4839b296b08e6e678e526c3@localhost.talkaboutautos.com... > > > > > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. > > wait [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > 2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; > election frauds. Your entire argument is based on the idea that changing the mileage constitutes fraud because it affects the value of the vehicle. You don't seem to understand that changing the mileage of a 250,000 mile car to 200,000 miles does not affect it's value because to Kelly Blue Book, the warranty companies, and everyone else, a vehicle is used up at 150K miles. (or 170K miles or whatever arbitrary mileage cutoff they determine) In other words, beyond a certain mileage it makes no difference what the vehicle mileage is in terms of valuation of the vehicle. Thus, you cannot committ fraud if you were to change the mileage of a 280K mile vehicle to 200K miles because it won't affect the value. In any case, if you want to talk about fraud let's talk about who the largest committers of vehicle resale fraud are. Vehicle dealers, that's who: http://info.insure.com/auto/Flood-damagedcars.htm "...An estimated 500,000 cars were damaged by hurricanes last year. Unfortunately, many of these vehicles have been purchased by dishonest AUTO DEALERS, cleaned up and then sold, with their flood damage history illegally hidden, according to the Insurance Information Institute (I.I.I.)...." Seems to me that unless Chrysler requires the BCM to be returned and they plug it in and obtain the mileage from it, (in which case there's no need for mileage figures to be written down on the paperwork that is sent with it) before programming the new one, and they program the new one ONLY to the mileage the pulled out of the old BCM, that this is like having the fox in charge of the henhouse. I don't see that changing the mileage on a high mileage car to another high mileage figure is of any consequence or is fraudulent. Ted First of all I'm not arguing. And this is my last reply on this. I simply replied to the OP how the mileage has to be set into the BCM and stated that was a guideline that we had to follow, you are the one that twisted it into a "value of the vehicle" Once again, a little common sense is needed on your last post about the dealers buying and selling used vehicles. Unscrupulous salvage operators and dealers often try to conceal the fact that the vehicles they are selling have been damaged by a natural disaster, The word dealer...... Means just that:Dealer Noun 1. Someone who purchases and maintains an inventory of goods to be sold. 2. A firm engaged in trading. I cant find anywhere where it says NEW CAR DEALER? Have a nice Christmas Glenn qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool > You have'nt seen nothng yet, you think they have been complicated. wait > untill the newer models with this CAN-C and CAN -B bus systems start > having problems. right now they are in the dealers, > > Glenn > qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they > can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >>Glenn And there's only so much a computer can tell you in a real-world troubleshooting situation. But I guess we're into "replace this-or-that black box" situation with these systems anyway. But still won't be a whole lot of help in broken or intemittent wiring situations. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > ...intemittent... intermittent Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') that's not really true! a scantool can watch a sensor or function that occurs and you can watch voltage ramp up higher than expected with a broken wire /open circuit for that circuit or watch amperage ramp up with a corroded wire and voltage drop or a outright failure of a blown fuse and record a fault code such as can c and b do now and obd2 alot of times a failure in one black box will set a fault in another black box but you need to be able to access them all to see that as in door modules and instrument panels and abs and srs and tire pressure monitoring systems such a way to see this is with the software i mentioned > > qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they > > can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool all together [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') > that's not really true! a scantool can watch a sensor or function that occurs > and you can watch voltage ramp up higher than expected with a broken wire /open [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > instrument panels and abs and srs and tire pressure monitoring systems such a > way to see this is with the software i mentioned Your assuming the operator of the software is a diagnostician and not a parts-changer. I've watched this kind of thing happen in my business, computer networks, and there's so many parallels to the auto industry it's like the are the same industry. Every year the diagnostic software to find problems gets more and more advanced, has more and more features, and in the hands of a competent tech, can find problems faster and faster. However every year, the numbers of competent techs shrink. The techs get lazy and figure that the software is so smart that they don't have to learn how the systems work anymore since the software will do it for them. And the software gets so much more complex to use that it takes a lot longer to learn how to use all the features, and so the techs once again get lazy and just learn to use a couple of features of the software and don't really take advantage of it. In any case I really don't understand why the $4K software is required. There's plenty of horsepower available in even the cheap embedded computers today that the automakers should be able to put all the diagnostic stuff right in the car computer, and an Ethernet jack under the dash, and you plug in your laptop, fire up a web browser, and access the car computer and you have all the same stuff as you get from the $4K scanner. Ted > > damnnickname wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > qaftermarket is already there and if someone wants to spend 400 grand they > can access everything with a laptop losing the scantool 400 grand?? What are you talking about? oops 4k is that better > > > damnnickname wrote: > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > 400 grand?? What are you talking about? you have to go thru a dealer for that > > Bill you swapped out with a used one or Chrysler didnt program it right? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') |
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