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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / April 2007Oil filter question
Is it alright to use a filter that fits, but is larger, for a Dodge Caravan with 3.8L engine, such as the PH8A vs the PH16. A friend has switched to the larger filter on the basis it will clean better or longer between changes, he uses synthetic oil and runs longer than the manufactures stated interval. I am wondering what others opinions on this are and if someone has any actual documentation one way or the other? TIA Certainly. I do that too. In fact it's fairly common to use a Motorcraft FL-1A on Chryslers. It'll fit several Chryslers and it's a very good filter for the money. Nobody ever proved it's okay to run synthetics longer, but I do it all the time. If I wasn't going to run it longer I wouldn't pay all that extra money. Somebody must have done a scientific study on synthetic vs. dino oil life. It must be out there. Hopefully somebody will post a link to such a study. > Is it alright to use a filter that fits, but is larger, for a Dodge > Caravan with 3.8L engine, such as the PH8A vs the PH16. A friend has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are and if someone has any actual documentation one way or the other? > TIA > Certainly. I do that too. In fact it's fairly common to use a Motorcraft > FL-1A on Chryslers. It'll fit several Chryslers and it's a very good filter [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > life. It must be out there. Hopefully somebody will post a link to such a > study. Good article about manufacturers increasing their recommended intervals between oil changes. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070322/automakers_oilchang es_070322/20070322?hub=SciTech It also noted the problems Toyota had with sludging a few years ago and that you "should not have any problems" if you meet the manufacturers intervals. Sounds good, but we've heard the stories of Chrysler accusing customers of abuse when their 2.7L engines failed after they changed oil on schedule. > Good article about manufacturers increasing their recommended intervals between > oil changes. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > good, but we've heard the stories of Chrysler accusing customers of abuse when > their 2.7L engines failed after they changed oil on schedule. Correct. The recommended 7500 mile change interval on the 2.7 will absolutely kill it. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') >> Good article about manufacturers increasing their recommended intervals >> between [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Correct. The recommended 7500 mile change interval on the 2.7 will > absolutely kill it. Wow, these mileages are incredible! Most manufacturers here in Europe specify 6000 or 12000 mile services for their cars. (My wife's Renault Megane has 18000 mile service/oil change intervals) Maybe I should change our oil more often! My Neon has oil change/service intervals of 7500 miles according to the manual. A > Wow, these mileages are incredible! Most manufacturers here in Europe > specify 6000 or 12000 mile services for their cars. (My wife's Renault > Megane has 18000 mile service/oil change intervals) 18,000 mile intervals? I suspect that is using synthetic only? Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Toyota has recommended Mobil 1 in its vehicles with sluge issues. Its dealers now stock Mobil 1. Short drives that do not allow a motor to heat up enough to drive off the water produced by the combustion process need frequent oil changes. Most vehicles get the oil changed too frequently at a waste of limited oil resources. My experience with extended oil changes with Mobil 1 since it was introduced has been very positive. I change once a year, weather it needs it or not. Richard. > Toyota has recommended Mobil 1 in its vehicles with sluge issues. Its > dealers now stock Mobil 1. Short drives that do not allow a motor to heat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with Mobil 1 since it was introduced has been very positive. I change once > a year, weather it needs it or not. Since I switched to Mobil 1 (years ago, for a variety of vehicles since) I've been using a 5,000 mile change interval (not the least because it makes it easy for me to tell when it's time by just looking at the odometer -- no complicated arithmetic; it also compensates for the difference in price from 3,000 mile dino oil). My 2004 Dodge Caravan's owner's manual prescribed 3,000 mile oil changes only for "rough use" (like police cars, taxis, etc.) and 6,000 miles for "normal" use. Regardless, every time *anyone* (even a dealership!) changed the oil they would stick a 3,000 mile reminder on my windshield. I just keep using Mobil 1 and keep changing it every 5K. > ...My 2004 Dodge Caravan's owner's manual prescribed > 3,000 mile oil changes only for "rough use" (like police cars, taxis, etc.) > and 6,000 miles for "normal" use... Funny you mention that. I've read of an engine warranty claim being turned down when the longer "normal use" mileage interval was used. The dealers policy was that there is no such thing as "normal use" in the real world (not considering the owners claim of their usage, but that there is no such thing as "normal use"). My answer to that is that, if that's the case, the "normal use" maintenance schedule is a fraud being committed on the public - if it doesn't exist, then quit publishing it and misleading people. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > Toyota has recommended Mobil 1 in its vehicles with sluge issues. Its > dealers now stock Mobil 1. Short drives that do not allow a motor to heat up [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Richard. I use Mobol 1 extended service in my Toyota 2002 camry, even though the 2002`s dont have a sludging problem as reported ? However I do change my oil 3 times a year even with the extended service oil (15,000 MILES) My driving is a combination of 50% city and 50% highway driving. > Certainly. I do that too. In fact it's fairly common to use a Motorcraft > FL-1A on Chryslers. It'll fit several Chryslers and it's a very good filter > for the money. Just be aware that with certain engines, such as the 2.7L, the oil filter hangs straight down and is recessed 1/2" or so above the frame and oil pan which protect it. If you were to put the FL-1A on that engine, the end of the filter projects below the protection and is therefore vulnerable to tall, hard objects or projectiles from the road. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > Is it alright to use a filter that fits, but is larger, for a Dodge Caravan > with 3.8L engine, such as the PH8A vs the PH16. A friend has switched to the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actual documentation one way or the other? > TIA See here: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html > See here: http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html The article states: "Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it." I hate unqualified, meaningless statements like that. The wear curve on one change would obviously be a dip, with greatly increasing wear somewhere on the far end of the curve. Not including that fact in that statement destroys credibility and makes one suspicious of emotion or hidden agenda involved in making it. If I take the statement at face value, I should never change the oil in my car. It also ignores other considerations such as sludge build up. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > If I take the statement at face value, I should never change the oil in my > car. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address > with the letter 'x') I purchased a used Ford Fairlane with a straight 6 that never had the oil changed in 98,000 miles. It did not use very much oil. When I opened the valve cover there was not one drop of sludge. Instead all of the free space had been filled in with a solid block of black coke type material. The hydraulic lifters no longer had a hydraulic function but worked like a mechanical lifter. I cleaned it all out and after that the only issue was that a valve lifting rod would break and I would have to slip in a new one. See; you don't have to change your oil. I sold that car back to its previous owner after I graduated school and as far as I know that sucker is still running. Richard. >>If I take the statement at face value, I should never change the oil in my >>car. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Richard. Too ridiculous to even respond to (other than to say that). Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') >>>If I take the statement at face value, I should never change the oil in >>>my car. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Too ridiculous to even respond to (other than to say that). The correct response to Richard's post is "LOL", as it has to have been a spoof. Ken > Bill Putney > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address > with the letter 'x') > Is it alright to use a filter that fits, but is larger, for a Dodge Caravan > with 3.8L engine, such as the PH8A vs the PH16. A friend has switched to the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actual documentation one way or the other? > TIA If there are "shorty" and standard versions of the same filter then its definitely no problem and in fact a good idea to use the longer filter where possible. With other swaps, added size is no good if the bigger filter has the wrong bypass relief pressure, lacks a bypass system, lacks an anti-drainback valve, etc. You have to make sure the filters FUNCTION identically, and function includes more than just filtering. > ...added size is no good if the bigger filter...lacks an > anti-drainback valve... Your point is well taken, *BUT* (and that's a *BIG* BUTT) I challange *ANYBODY* to identify *ONE* model of any manufacturer's automotive oil filter that does *NOT* have an anti-drainback valve other than one Subaru application in particular that happens to have the anti-drainback valve built into the engine (and even some brands of filters have a redundant anti-drainback valve in their filter for that particular application). If you think you've found one, post the filter manufacturer and model number. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') |
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