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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / September 20071997 Chrysler Concorde 3.5 Sudden Stall
I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. When I'm stopped at a traffic light sometimes the engine will suddenly stall. There is no warning that the engine is about to stall - just suddenly stops running. Also, during those 200 miles, at idle in drive, the engine would run slightly rough and there was a major rattle somewhere in the dashboard. Today, I had the same type of problem where the engine suddenly stalled. When I tried to restart, the engine turned slowly and started, but this time the engine was missing badly. I managed to get the car back home and I called the auto shop to send a tow truck. When the tow truck arrived, the car started right up and ran normally. The car is back at the auto shop, so I'm wondering what they will say next. I've already paid close to $3K for the engine replacement. Has anyone else had a sudden stalling problem with their Chrysler? Thanks... > I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler > Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > $3K for the engine replacement. Has anyone else had a sudden stalling > problem with their Chrysler? Thanks... Right off the top I suspect a rich mixture or the timing off. Was there black smoke coming out the exhaust when it was missing badly? it possible that the crank sensor has not been properly shimed or it is bad. see if there is a fault code stored. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler > Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > $3K for the engine replacement. Has anyone else had a sudden stalling > problem with their Chrysler? Thanks... First off, pull the error codes by cycling the ignition switch 3 times and counting blinks of the "check engine" light (you can find the procedure at allpar.com- EVERY owner should know how to do this and it should be the FIRST step in diagnosing any problem.) I suspect you'll find an error relating to either the cam position sensor or the crank position sensor. FWIW- sometimes the crank position sensor alone won't trip a code on first-gen 3.5L engine management systems- the computer just thinks the engine stopped and doesn't realize that it still should be running. >> I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler >> Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> $3K for the engine replacement. Has anyone else had a sudden stalling >> problem with their Chrysler? Thanks... This may not help you, but I have the exact same problem. The symptoms are identical. In my case, the problem is caused by a bad connection at the coil. I can wiggle the wires where they plug into the coil and I can make it miss or stop missing. That's probably not your problem, but the symptoms are right. the egr gasketrs and tubes can creat a vac leak that will cause the car to stall they are oin the bac of the cylinder heads and can be a pain for someone doing a engine swap rushing thru it > >> I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler > >> Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > it miss or stop missing. That's probably not your problem, but the symptoms > are right. > the egr gasketrs and tubes can creat a vac leak that will cause the car to stall > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > it miss or stop missing. That's probably not your problem, but the symptoms > > are right. Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could take the throttle body off that vehicle and it will run. Glenn the customer is having a stall issue why does pulling off the throttle body have anything to do with the stalling?? also based on the more info posted i would suspect a mistimed timing belt/cam gear setup on camshaft and again check the egr operation and related tubes that bolt directly to the bac of the intake manifolld > > the egr gasketrs and tubes can creat a vac leak that will cause the car to > stall [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Glenn > the customer is having a stall issue why does pulling off the throttle body > have anything to do with the stalling?? [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > > > Glenn Because you said the egr gasket will make it stall, it wont, any vacuum leak on the vehicle will make the engine rev to a higher RPM and not stall. It is not a carbureted engine. I simply said you could pull the throttle body off this vehicle (running) and it wouldn't stall. you could pull the EGR off this vehicle and it wouldn't stall while running. > Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could take > the throttle body off that vehicle and it will run. > > Glenn Really? With the throttle position sensor reading "closed," but the actual throttle (effectively) open, I think you'll find that it falls flat on its face fairly often if there's a big vacuum leak. Especially transitioning to an idle from coasting. The MAP sensor will show high manifold pressure and that will allow it to compensate for small vacuum leaks fine, but if someone leaves the EGR tubes disconnected, that's an awful big vacuum leak to expect it to compensate. > > Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could take > > the throttle body off that vehicle and it will run. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > leaks fine, but if someone leaves the EGR tubes disconnected, that's an > awful big vacuum leak to expect it to compensate. If there's a big vacuum leak the complaint would be vehicle does not idle down, not a stalling problem.. >>>Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If there's a big vacuum leak the complaint would be vehicle does not idle > down, not a stalling problem.. My experience on this type of engine control system is that vacuum leaks cause both "high idle" and stalling. The stalling results from the fact that the controller can't make a smooth transition from running to idle because its getting conflicting inputs from the MAP sensor and the throttle position sensor. Yeah, you can start it and it will idle (fast), but when you're driving it will stall about 3 of 4 times that you pull up to a stop. > >>>Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > (fast), but when you're driving it will stall about 3 of 4 times that > you pull up to a stop. Not like a carburetor where the fuel is delivered at the intake. A vacuum leak in that system would cause a very lean condition and cause the vehicle to stall. Since a ported fuel injection system sprays the fuel directly into each cylinder a vacuum leak would not cause the engine to stall. Take a look at a drivability test book and look up stalling on a ported fuel injected vehicle and see if it mentions EGR. (excluding Chilton because they are useless)Take a mighty vac and apply vacuum to the EGR and see if it stalls. >>>>>Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could >>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Not like a carburetor where the fuel is delivered at the intake. No one ever said it was "like a carburetor." >. Since a ported fuel injection system sprays the fuel directly into > each cylinder a vacuum leak would not cause the engine to stall. It won't make it stall because of lean-out, but it CAN make it stall because the engine managment computer is now getting inputs (throttle position sensor says closed, MAP says high pressure) that don't match up. The transition between operating under load where the extra air flow is trivial, and operating at idle where the extra airflow is the dominant factor is no longer smooth, and so there is a high probability of a stall under that condition. > Take a look > at a drivability test book and look up stalling on a ported fuel injected > vehicle and see if it mentions EGR. (excluding Chilton because they are > useless)Take a mighty vac and apply vacuum to the EGR and see if it stalls. OK, let's be clear: 1) I'm not talking THEORY, I'm talking about what I've OBSERVED in this very engine/controller combo. 2) The question wasn't about "EGR" in general, ie. driveability issues with a sticky EGR valve or clogged EGR tubes. It was about a good-sized vacuum leak that results if the engine changer left the EGR tube DISCONNECTED. > >>>>>Not true!! it isn't a carbureted engine, its fuel injected. You could > >>> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > vacuum leak that results if the engine changer left the EGR tube > DISCONNECTED. Steve I was replying to dirty when he said a gasket leak at the EGR tube would cause it to stall and I said Not true. Check the MAP sensor connection. Not only check it but get a used one and change it. I saw by the past a faulty plug. There are 3 wires if I remember well, cut them about 6 inches long and solder the other one. That might be the problem. Another symptom is back fires sometimes when you step hard on the gaz pedal. Watch not to open your muffler with a big backfire. Good luck. L.G.R. >>> I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler >>> Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > make it miss or stop missing. That's probably not your problem, but the > symptoms are right. go with the error codes.... my '96 did the same thing last year.....error code was for EGR malfunction.......shop said the EGR was OK.........car would run great 99% of the time.....rough every now and then....and stall without warning at a stop light. finally got fed up and took the EGR off myself: the plastic connector nipples were cracked - new EGR/no problems. may not be your problem, but check the codes! Thanks for everyone's help!... While the car was in the auto shop the second time they replaced the coil pack, crank sensor, temperature sending unit and water outlet. And to my surprise they charged me an additional $329. "It runs fine now," the chief mechanic said. I drove away from the shop and still noticed that the engine ran a bit rough at idle in drive. Also, there was still a rattle in the dash board at idle in drive. I drove the car about 10 miles towards my home and I arrived at a stop light. Yes, the same thing happened - the car suddenly stalled. I started it back up and arrived back home... The next day I took the car for a thorough test drive. Same situation, engine was running a bit rough at idle in drive. I drove the car on the freeway and in the city. After 10 miles, again the engine stalled at a stop light. I then arrived at a second stop light - the engine suddenly stalled again. This time the engine would barely start and it was missing badly. The "check engine" light was also flashing. The car was ready to stall again, but I pulled into a residential neighborhood, parked and turned off the engine. I waited a few minutes and tried to start the car again, but it would not start. I called the auto shop again to send a tow truck. It kind of sounds like they are randomly changing parts at my expense to solve this problem. I wonder what they will say next and how much they will charge me again. I'm about ready to take the car back and then try to fix it myself trying everyone's repair suggestions. These rental car charges are killing me and after $3500 in engine replacement/repair bills, I still don't have a running car... Hmmmm... On Jul 11, 2:37 am, fredsmyth...@yahoo.com wrote: > I just had a rebuilt 3.5 engine installed in my 1997 Chrysler > Concorde. After only 200 miles the engine has some stalling problems. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > $3K for the engine replacement. Has anyone else had a sudden stalling > problem with their Chrysler? Thanks... Years ago I had a similar stalling problem on an '82 Aries K-car.Lost a huge chunk of $ trying to figure it out but eventually the answer was....a bad catalytic converter. Something had broken loose inside there and would periodically obstruct the exhaust flow. After engine shutdown the exhaust pressure would dissipate and could restart. Then it would run until the next time it blocked itself...sometime minutes later, sometimes days later. UPDATE: After the car was at the shop for six days on the third repair attempt, the chief mechanic called me and said, "It runs fine now, but it has an engine code. We replaced the crank sensor again. When can you pick it up?" Engine code? I thought they were going to finally fix this car. When I arrived at the auto shop they didn't charge me for the repair this time. I wanted to talk with the chief mechanic about this situation, but he was not there when I arrived at the shop. The guy at the service desk gave me my keys. Then another mechanic hooked up a code reader under the dash of the car and wrote down some letters and numbers on a piece a paper. He gave me the piece of paper and he said, "Thank you. Have a nice day." The paper showed the following error code: PO441-EVAP control sys purge flow falt I wasn't sure what to do. Did they want me to go to another mechanic? Or did they want me to try and fix the problem myself? I guess they finally gave up on trying to repair the car and the rebuilt engine replacement was unsuccessful. But, they said nothing about a refund... I started the car and the engine was now running very rough and the "check engine" light was on. I decided to just have the car towed back home. Now the fun begins... Calling the credit card companies, charge backs, rental car charge claims, consumer agencies, small claims court, etc... Thanks again for everyone's help. Maybe I'll have time next month to work on the car myself... FINAL UPDATE: After three attempts at trying to repair all the problems with the engine replacement and keeping the car for a total of three weeks to try to solve these problems, the chief mechanic kept saying, "It runs great!" The engine still ran rough, there was a loud rattle in the dash when in drive at idle and the engine would surge at times at highway speeds. And the check engine light was now on, so it failed the state inspection. I decided to take the car to another auto shop and they found a few things: One leaking injector - gas leaking on engine Injector O-rings had not been replaced Throttle cable not connected properly - mounting bolt broken Negative battery cable not attached properly to ground Numerous cracked and rotten air hoses had not been replaced Yet another repair cost. This time $850. At least the car is running good now. This second auto shop took four days to find all the problems. The guys who replaced the engine took three weeks and never found any of the above problems... "Uh, it runs great! Yeah, runs great..! No problems!" Lesson learned... Do your research on auto shops before getting any major repairs done. Or, better yet, don't replace the engine - just buy a new car... Happy Driving... > Lesson learned.. Or, better yet, don't replace the engine - just > buy a new car... Lesson noted. |
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