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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / October 20071995 Plymouth Grand Voyager
3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This has happened when I stop, there is a shudder and then the lack of shifting starts. Other times after you take off from a light and let up on the gas, there's a shudder and the shifting goes goofy again.. Sometimes if I stop, kill the engine and restart, it goes away, other times not. Garage has had it a driven it for days and things are fine. Often it's weeks before the problem comes up again. Anyone got any clues?  SignatureBob > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Anyone got any clues? My 93 Intrepid does this too. Once it misses a shift, it seems to continue locked in 2nd gear. I usually happens within the first few minutes of driving. If I get more than a mile or two without it happening, it just plain won't happen at all. It seems to happen more when it's cold out, like below 32 degrees. At first I thought it was low fluid. The car does have 200K miles on it and it leaks a bit from the main seal. Not worth fixing. However now what I think is happening is that there is a bad connection somewhere and it 'glitches' the controller. Once that happens, I have to turn the motor off and restart and it's usually fine. > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > and it 'glitches' the controller. Once that happens, I have to turn the > motor off and restart and it's usually fine. Mine started in the summer. Just did it yesterday again. Shudderd as I stopped and then wouldn't shift. Later, after I'd stopped at the store and it sat for 15 mins or so, it was fine as I left and this repeats the same pattern. I hope someone here has a clue, other than the Ted-jackass. SignatureBob /> >Mine started in the summer. Just did it yesterday again. Shudderd as I >stopped and then wouldn't shift. Later, after I'd stopped at the store >and it sat for 15 mins or so, it was fine as I left and this repeats the >same pattern. > >I hope someone here has a clue, other than the Ted-jackass. You may not care for the messenger but the message is valid. Why ask a bunch of strangers across the globe what the problem with your transmission is when you can just ask your transmission? Take it to a dealer or a **very good** (not aamco) transmission shop and have the codes read from the transmission controller. I'm not sure how long it holds this information so do it as quick as you can after an event. Get back to the group with the codes and you will stand a better chance of getting some good advice. Steve B. > /> > >Mine started in the summer. Just did it yesterday again. Shudderd as I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Steve B. I've had it at a dealer and unfortunately when there, it hasn't acted up. It's like the old doctor joke, "Doc, it hurts when I've done this!" "Is it doing it now asks the Doc?" "No" the man said. "Well, I can't help you then." said the Doc. SignatureJim > /> > >Mine started in the summer. Just did it yesterday again. Shudderd as I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Steve B. I forgot to say they read the computer and there wasn't any info. SignatureJim > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > > > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > I hope someone here has a clue, other than the Ted-jackass. I don't see that there's any call for that sort of name-calling. You took it to a garage, the garage doesen't know what they are doing. Most people would be disgusted with the garage and would be calling around other garages for second opinions. In your case you came to us and we will give you some advice that will help you - but look here, you are hardly holding up your end of the bargain. This is a self-help forum. It is considered good manners if your going to ask advice here to at least have done a small amount of effort trying to figure it out yourself. Your owners manual, for example, would have explained that what your experiencing is the trans automatically shutting itself down (AKA "limp mode") after detecting a fault. Have you even read it? And I don't think it out of line to expect you to know what any auto parts store is going to ask you if you were to walk in and buy a part. Not to mention that "3.8" is molded into the intake air plenum on your engine and if you open the hood it's staring you right in the face. As I said previously, you need to have your transmission scanned, ie: interrogated by a scantool at a dealer. Such a tool will read out error codes and also tell you a lot about the health of the transmission. It is very likely that your fault is a sensor failing. And the trans computer will have an error code set if that is happening. It is not uncommon for people who get transmissions rebuilt at elsewhere than the dealer to have this problem happen - because other places use aftermarket sensors that tend to fail sooner than the dealer ones - not that the dealer ones have that long a lifespan anyhow. I've had it happen to me twice in one of my vans. However, I also spent the money and time to buy a scantool and the pieces needed to be able to have it talk to my transmission so that when it happened I could pull the error codes and know for certain it was the sensor going out again. Economically, it would have been cheaper to have the dealer scan it since I still haven't paid back the cost of the tool - but the convenience of being able to diagnose in the driveway at my convenience and fix at my convenience makes up for it. Of course, you can simply keep shotgunning it. Your choice. Just be aware that the trans computer will happily throw it into limp mode while your barrelling down the highway at 70Mph if it sees a sensor failure. It really isn't that great on the health of the transmission to shift down to 2nd gear from overdrive at that speed on a regular basis. Ted PS Same advice goes for the guy in the Intrepid. > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > > > > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > PS Same advice goes for the guy in the Intrepid. Thanks. This was more the kind of reply I would have expected rather than your rant about engine cylinders. You could have [originally] been kinder rather than a smart-a.s. OTOH, you came through the second time. SignatureBob > Of course, you can simply keep shotgunning it. Your choice. Just be > aware that the trans computer will happily throw it into limp mode [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > PS Same advice goes for the guy in the Intrepid. Well, the situation with the Intrepid is that there are NO error codes. OK, not entirely true. It says battery failure once in a while. And it gave an O2 sensor error, but I replaced the O2 sensors (both of them) and the ignition wires and the mileage went up considerably (from the teens to the mid-20's), the surging on level road with cruise control stopped, and the slight miss went away. The tranny still misbehaves occasionally. Oh, the tranny NEVER downshifts to 2nd/limp mode. So far, in 3 years, it ONLY happens when I come to a stop and start out again. It starts out and stays in 2nd. If it starts out in first, it ALWAYS shifts fine and goes all the way to OD. Also, it is EXTREMELY rare for it to happen more than once per day. Almost as if the slight warming from driving at all makes it not want to happen. And it almost always happens within the first 1 or 2 stopsigns from starting out in the morning. > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > > > > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > PS Same advice goes for the guy in the Intrepid. FWIW I was out today and stopped at the Garage and they did scan/interrogate the trans computer which led to a solenoid problem but nothing of the shuddering and then not shifting. Also, the trans which it got that was rebuilt came from Chrysler with a warrantee which was up last April and the problem started in May-June. Oh and it's not "shotgunning" at all, those are your words. The garage I've used since 1988 doesn't work that way and they don't do things not indicated. That's why nothing's been done and they've driven the van for over a day, trying to replicate the problem and look at it while it's happening. So, if it happens while I'm out in the local area, I'll go there while it's doing it and maybe the problem can be found. SignatureBob > In article <newscache$v61npj$zam...@news.ipinc.net>, > [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > -- > Bob I had to leave my van with the transmission shop to try to correct a problem similar to yours. It had an intermittent transmission wiring harness problem. They finally disconnected everything, and cleaned all the connectors and re-connected them. This was done back in August, and it's been fine since. My problem was that it would work fine until it got up to operating temp, and then it would go into *limp* mode. -KM > > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > > > > > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > scan/interrogate the trans computer which led to a solenoid problem but > nothing of the shuddering and then not shifting. Hmmm - OK, if there was a solenoid problem, then why would you or they think it's not related to the shuddering and not shifting? I would think it would be. Did they give you the code? Just curious - what tool did they use? The codes do get reset eventually so if it happens and you wait too long to have it scanned then you won't get codes back. > Also, the trans which it got that was rebuilt came from Chrysler with a > warrantee which was up last April and the problem started in May-June. Oh man that just sucks! One other question for you on the rebuilt trans. You said Chrysler rebuilt it - but, did Chrysler install and fill it with fluid? Or did your local garage? If so, that may be the problem. These transmissions should not have any other fluid than ATF +3 or ATF +4, preferably ATF +4. It used to be that only ATF +3 was available from the aftermarket, but recently Chrysler said they were going to make ATF+4 available via aftermarket. A lot of garages fall for the marketing line of cock-and-bull from this company called Lubegard which claims to be able to "make" ATF +4 by having the garage fill the transmission with Dexron then pouring a carton of this lubegard shift modifier crap in the transmission. The garages are susceptable to this because Dexron is less than half the cost of ATF +4. Really, with your symptoms, you got 3 possible problem areas. First is in the eleectronics, sensor, trans computer, etc. But just about any of that will set a code. Second is wrong fluid. It happens a LOT more than you would believe. That usually won't set a code. Last is a hard part failure, or bad clearance in the transmission. Those also usually won't set a code either. So, you really really want it to set a code! Anytime the trans computer shifts the trans into limp mode it is going to set an error code. Ted > > > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on > a [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] > think it would be. Did they give you the code? Just curious - what tool > did they use? The code indicated the solenoid problem which is what led to it being replaced and after that things *appeared* to be fine with the problem gone but then weeks later it returned. I'd have to as the name of the device they used to scan the trans. BTW, this is the first unsolved problem I'ver ever had with them since I began using them in 1988. > The codes do get reset eventually so if it happens and you wait too > long to have it scanned then you won't get codes back. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oh man that just sucks! Yes, but when it first happened after the warrentee was up, they agreed it shouldn't have happened and I think they would stand behind it. The solenoid is not internal to the trans so that was not covered. > One other question for you on the rebuilt trans. You said Chrysler rebuilt > it - [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > only ATF +3 was available from the aftermarket, but recently Chrysler > said they were going to make ATF+4 available via aftermarket. The garage got the trans from Chrysler with the 3 yr warrantee when I had it done. The warrantee was why I chose this path rather than a rebuilt which had a lesser warrantee for lesser money. > A lot of garages fall for the marketing line of cock-and-bull from this > company called Lubegard which claims to be able to "make" ATF +4 > by having the garage fill the transmission with Dexron then pouring a > carton of this lubegard shift modifier crap in the transmission. The > garages > are susceptable to this because Dexron is less than half the cost of ATF +4. I'd have to ask if Lubegard was involved. > Really, with your symptoms, you got 3 possible problem areas. First is in > the eleectronics, sensor, trans computer, etc. But just about any of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > usually won't set a code either. So, you really really want it to set a > code! I've been waiting for it to act up again and stop shifting. I'm home on disability so I'm local to them and can just head there if it acts up so when that happens they were going to look at it again. > Anytime the trans computer shifts the trans into limp mode it is going > to set an error code. Are you calling the lack of shifting limp mode? As I said it shudders when stopping OR when you accelerate from a stop and let up a bit, then it's 3000 rpm @ 34 mph and doesn't downshift. Then it goes away for no reason with no shudder or whatnot. Seems though like the engine has to have been off for things to get back to normal. I'm hesitant to go to the dealer for no other reason than I didn't get the trans there, but at the garage who has said they'd take care of the problem when they find it. I've left it for them to drive for 2 days and it wouldn't do it...you know haw that sometimes goes with stuff you need to get fixed. BTW, while we got off on the wrong foot( or was it tire!!!) I appreciate your comments/advice and will look some more into things. > Ted SignatureBob >> > > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now >> > > > > > on [quoted text clipped - 205 lines] > >> Ted Every time the key is cycled which means shut off then turned again the trans computer gets partially reset and "gives it another try" so to speak and attempts to operate normally till it senses another fault. I have had mine go into limp mode which yes is 2nd gear and reverse only due to interference from a radio tower and the fix was simply to shift to neutral and turn the key off and back on then put it back in drive. I didn't even have to stop the car and if you do the key cycle just right you don't even have to recrank the engine as it is still spinning fast enough to continue running. Now I don't recommend others try this as one time my mom was driving and managed to hit reverse instead on neutral at 45mph but it worked for me. To elaborate on this "limp mode" you see mentioned here it is due to the fact that 2nd gear and reverse are hard coded into the valve body on the trans. The car going into limp mode is simply the trans computer saying "I give up" and shutting down which cuts all power to the solenoid pack. To prove this to yourself unplug the solenoid pack connector, trans computer connector, or just pull the TCM fuse and drive the car and you will find that all you have is 2nd gear and usually the cruise control and speedometer won't work either along with the shift indicators if your car has the electronic indicators instead of the old string and needle style. > > > > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on > > a [quoted text clipped - 172 lines] > BTW, while we got off on the wrong foot( or was it tire!!!) I appreciate > your comments/advice and will look some more into things. Your welcome, sorry about jumping to conclusions in the beginning. My only further advice is to make sure you get it documented that Chrysler agreed the problem started under warranty. I still think it is a sensor problem but the lack of an error code from the transmission computer doesen't make sense. The only other thing might possibly be a loss of electrical power to the trans computer itself - the trans computer cannot set codes if it's not running. You did mention they replaced the trans computer - perhaps they didn't properly clean the contacts on the big header that plugs into the front of the computer when they did it, or perhaps the moisture rubber guard around that connector is leaking. You could get a bottle of contact cleaner and some cotton swabs and do it yourself. Or if it's water, take the connector apart and spray it all down with WD-40. You might also check the rubber seal that is on the top where the hood fits against the body - if that is leaking, water pours down into the engine compartment when it rains. Another common area is the input speed sensor contacts. That sensor is right under the transmission cooling oil line fittings and if those leak, trans oil goes down and softens the rubber connector on the speed sensor and makes that connection get loose. But if that is the problem it will definitely set a code in the computer. Ted > > > > > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and > now on [quoted text clipped - 228 lines] > when they did it, or perhaps the moisture rubber guard around that > connector is leaking. I thought I'd said solenoid which is outside the trans they said. > You could get a bottle of contact cleaner and some cotton swabs and > do it yourself. Or if it's water, take the connector apart and spray it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > fits against the body - if that is leaking, water pours down into the engine > compartment when it rains. No leaks there, I've checked. > Another common area is the input speed sensor contacts. That sensor is > right under the transmission cooling oil line fittings and if those leak, > trans > oil goes down and softens the rubber connector on the speed sensor > and makes that connection get loose. But if that is the problem it will > definitely set a code in the computer. I'll ask them to check it. The problem hasn't reoccurred for about 10 days now. It's so darn intermittent. > Ted SignatureBob > > > > > > > > "Robt. Brogan" <rbrogan@think.biz> wrote in message news:rbrogan-BE9510.23373606102007@comcast.dca.giganews.com... > > > > > > > > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and > > now on [quoted text clipped - 230 lines] > > I thought I'd said solenoid which is outside the trans they said. trans computer is also outside the trans it is on the firewall. It is connected to the solenoid pack with a lot of wires. Ted > > > > > > > > In article <GF6Oi.12$Au2.2@newsfe02.lga>, "Mike Y" > <joe@user.com> [quoted text clipped - 301 lines] > > Ted Thanks! SignatureBob > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Anyone got any clues? Very likely is is because whoever dropped that V-8 into your Grand Voyager didn't do the conversion right. I wonder how exactly he dealt with the problem of installing a rear axle and changing the engine mounts from the transverse mounted V-6 that used to be in your van to go to rear wheel drive - since of course, a V8 block is too long to go transverse mount. Interesting conversion, let's have some pictures! Now, go back and reread your owners manual and your vehicle specs and ponder how exactly a person who can't even post the correct engine size and type knows more than the garage in how to repair his vehicle. Next time, post the correct specs on your van. And, take it to the dealer, please. If your trans acts up, it will set a code in the computer. Your garage obviously doesen't know how to retrieve this. The dealer does, and has the expensive proprietary scantool to do it with. Ted > > 3.1 V8 auto, A/C and so on. Had a new trans 3 years ago and now on a > > totally intermittent basis it stops shifting. 3000rpm and 30 mph. This [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Ted Ok Ted Jackass, I mis-posted as V8 when it's a V6. Too bad you couldn't just ignore that mistake and answer the question. But then you're a huge jackass of the highest order. I sure hope you haven't reproduced since there's enough jackasses in the world. SignatureBob |
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