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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / November 20071970 Demon question
Hi all, spotted a bright green Duster with a hood scoop sitting at the side of the road with a for sale sign in the window, so of course I had to stop and check it out. Actually looked pretty solid, a little evidence of rust repair in the quarters but overall not bad. Turned out to have Demon 340 badges on it. Two things that make me wonder if it's a "real" Demon though - it had a column shift automatic and front drum brakes. Also front seat upholstery did not match rear making me wonder if the buckets were swapped in. So the questions - is this possibly still an original Demon? What would be a fair price to offer? I'd call it a #3 condition car, although it apparently passed safety inspection a year and a half ago. Excellent 20-footer with only a few minor issues up close, and headliner was missing and dash a little cracked, other than that looked to be a solid driver (although I have no way of knowing if there are any mechanical issues or not.) thanks for any advice, nate (haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now)  Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > (haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now) The Demon was a variation of the Dart, so it could be that someone tried to make a Demon from a Dart. If you can get the VIN, you could probably find someone that could decode it for you. Like you say, the buckets may have been swapped in, replacing a bench seat. Also, as it has a 340, I would think it would have come with a 4 speed, or an automatic with floor mounted selector. It all comes down to what you would want it for. If you want it to be able to pass the VIN and "numbers matching" test, you would probably be happier with something different. If this does not matter to you, then you would probably be okay with the vehicle you describe. -KM >>Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > -KM That's kind of what it comes down to. I'd rather have a four-speed myself. All I can say is that it did have the slotted taillight panel which IIRC was Demon only? I still haven't called the guy because I don't know whether I want to bother with something that isn't what I really want (and may not have a lot of intrinsic collector value) however the number of decent A-bodies I've seen for sale has dropped off dramatically in the last ten years. And, of course, I'd have to spin it by the finance department... nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > That's kind of what it comes down to. I'd rather have a four-speed > myself. All I can say is that it did have the slotted taillight panel [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > nate On the other hand, Nate, if it's the real deal, you are sure to loose out to someone who will certainly get the jump on you. When you come across what may potentially be a once-in-a-blue-moon-deal, you have to do your homework and verification rapidly and, if it checks out, *MOVE* on it. Or perhaps your hesitation is your subconcious saying you really wouldn't get it even if it checks out - and that's OK. I guess what I'm saying is either get it or not get it because you conciously decided to get/not get - not due to hesitation/inaction. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') >> That's kind of what it comes down to. I'd rather have a four-speed >> myself. All I can say is that it did have the slotted taillight panel [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') That probably sounded preachy - but you know what I'm saying. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') >>> That's kind of what it comes down to. I'd rather have a four-speed >>> myself. All I can say is that it did have the slotted taillight [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') Yeah I hear you... basically the whole deal is that I'd love to have a "warm" A-body, it's on my short list (along with a Volvo 1800, an early Scirocco, a pre-'73 Chevy pickup, and a couple other cars...) but on the flip side, I do have an Avanti-powered '55 Stude coupe that I still haven't gotten on the road yet, despite having been "almost done" for about six months... so the wisdom of buying ANY car right now is questionable, although my inner car guy really just wants a yard full of interesting machinery. I predict I won't make it through the week without at least calling the seller :) nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > (haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now) I SERIOUSLY doubt that its a real Demon, but I no longer remember what the VIN and fendertag codes for a Demon should be. Amazing, back in the early 90s I remembered all the "important" codes for genuine Mopar muscle. I'm gettin' old :-( But I do remember that there weren't a great number of Demons built, so today real Demons are one of the higher-priced A-bodies. If its a solid car (how do the rear stub-frame rails and the spring perches look?) then it might still be worth snagging, if the asking price isn't astronomical even if its just a 318 Dart. I may be getting REALLY outdated, but I still believe that no "20-footer" A-body should be worth more than $5k. You might drop the question over in alt.hi-po.mopars (aw hell, I'll just crosspost it myself.) > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > (haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now) The Demon was produced for '71 and '72 model years, and didn't sell well -- making any Demon worth more than a similarly-equipped Duster in similar condition. The sheetmetal of the Demon's rear pan had vertical slots for the tail lights, whereas the Duster (for '70 thru '72) had horizontal slots. The Demon shared the Dart front sheetmetal. It could've been ordered w/ other-than a HP engine, including the Slant 6 (a friend had a 318 w/ floorshift 3-speed). You can check the 13 digit VIN here: http://www.mopar1.us/vin.html. The last 7 digits are the serial number. Some reading: http://www.valiant.org/duster.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Dart. A magazine ad showing standard & optional equipment: http://www.uawdcx.com/images/demon.jpg Some photos here, showing the rear pan of a Demon: http://www.ralphsrapidtransit.com/demonpage1.html Bryan '68 Barracuda 340-S 'fish' back '69 Barracuda 340-S 'ragged' top > > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thanks, that VIN decoder may come in handy should I try to check it out. The one thing that concerns me is that you say it was only 71-72... car was labeled as '70 and the front end looked like a 70 - were 71-72 similar? when did they switch to the ugly front end with the more vertical grille? thanks, nate (bear with me, it's been a while since I've been into these cars) > > > Hi all, > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > You can check the 13 digit VIN here: http://www.mopar1.us/vin.html. The last > > 7 digits are the serial number. > > Some reading:http://www.valiant.org/duster.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Dart. > > A magazine ad showing standard & optional equipment: http://www.uawdcx.c om/images/demon.jpg > > Some photos here, showing the rear pan of a Demon:http://www.ralphsrapidtransit.com/demonpage1.html > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > (bear with me, it's been a while since I've been into these cars) http://www.valiant.org/duster.html agrees with my recollection -- the Demon appeared in '71 and lasted only thru the '72 model year. One reference I gave indicates the Demon was available thru '73, but that's the only reference I've seen, and I don't recall ever seeing (or hearing of) such an animal. If the VIN (6th digit) indicates it's a '70, it's a Duster... originally dubbed the "Valiant Duster". In '70-72?, the Duster used a front grille with vertical fins, while the Demon used the front sheetmetal and grille from the Dart. Again, the rear pan is a dead giveaway as to whether it's a '70-72 Duster (horizontal openings for the tailights) or '71-72 Demon (vertical openings for the tailights). The '73-up Duster had completely different tailights (no vertical or horizontal openings for the tailights). Bryan [Quoting multiple posters] > Two things that make me wonder if it's a > "real" Demon though - it had a column shift automatic and front > drum brakes. This makes you wonder if it's real because...why? The Demon was available as everything from an el-strippo with base 198 CID slant-6, 3-on-the-tree, radio-delete unit with nonpower 9" drum brakes at all four corners, all the way up to a fire-breathin' Demon 340 with 4- speed or automatic, power disc brakes front and 10" drums rear, accessory lights and chrome trims everywhere, hood scoops, bumper guards, FM/AM radio, air conditioning, fancy bucket seats, twin remote mirrors, etc. There was also a Demon Sizzler package, analogous to the Duster Twister, which gave you a 225 or 318 engine, automatic trans (usually on the column), some dress-up and popular accessory equipment, and special decals. > The Demon was produced for '71 and '72 model years Correct. There are no '70 Demons. A '71 Demon's VIN will start out as follows: LL29B1 (Demon w/198 engine) LL29C1 (Demon w/225 engine) LL29G1 (Demon w/318 engine) LM29M1 (Demon 340 w/340 engine) '72 Demon VINs are the same except with a "2" in place of the "1". > car was labeled as '70 and the front end looked like a 70 The only difference between the '70 Dart and '71 Dart/Demon front end is the colour of the main area of the grille. Medium argent in '70, black in '71. In '72, a different grille was used. All '70-'72 Dart/ Demon grilles are directly swappable. Remember also, all '67-'72 A- body front end assemblies (fenders + hood + front valence + front bumper + radiator support) are directly swappable, and '73-'76 A-body front end assemblies go on with only minor adaptation, so it's entirely possible someone tossed a Dart front clip on a Duster body to repair crash damage. You may want to check if the VIN plate visible through the windshield contains the same number as the fender tag on the driver's inner fender, though it's also possible to swap those plates when a front clip swap is done. > when did they switch to the ugly front end with the more vertical > grille? There was never a vertically-oriented grille on the Dodge A-body. They were always full-width horizontal items. More specificity, please (by e-mail, if you want me to see it...I'm only here by transient happenstance) > One reference I > gave indicates the Demon was available thru '73 For '73, the name was changed to "Dart Sport", because the usual suspects went around bitching about satanic, unChristian car names. The Dart Sport lasted through '76. > In '70-72?, the Duster used a front grille > with vertical fins, No, in '70-'72 the Duster used the same horizontal-lines grille as the Valiant. Only the Duster 340 and Duster Twister got the "shark tooth" grille you're thinking of here. DS > [Quoting multiple posters] > [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > DS Thanks Daniel... I now know more than I used to! Bryan >>[Quoting multiple posters] >> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Thanks Daniel... I now know more than I used to! > Bryan re: the "vertical grille" my memory was playing tricks on me. I was thinking of the raised center that after DAGS appears to have only been used on the '76 Valiant. However, it does appear that the front end on both changed in '73 to a less attractive (IMHO) design, and this car was not one of them. Either the car sold or the owner is no longer selling it however, as it disappeared from where I saw it parked the next time I went back, so my wallet is safe for now. I guess I'll spend my year-end bonus on boring stuff like paying down debt or building up my savings or something hideously responsible like that :) nate Signaturereplace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > (haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now) I wouldn't use the seats or column shift as a qualifier. If I remember things from that long ago, almost EVERY vehicle back then could have come with either seat configuration or column shift. (My neighbors Super Bee had bench seats and column automatic...) I'd search the VIN or try to find something unique for the Demon that couldn't have been swapped or easily faked. > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > nate > (haven't had an A-body in something like 12 years now) I had a '71 Demon (340 Pistol-Grip 4sp.), 4 Dusters, & 5 or 6 Dart/Valiant/Scamps. If I recall correctly the Demon was 71 & 72 only. Only the Demons had vertical slots for the tail-lights (I have a set). The 71 Demons had a nice looking Vertical Slotted Grill, the 72 was more of a honey-comb. I think they all had Ralley dashes too (built in Tach... The Speedo & Tach are both the same size & Round.... a Duster dash is different.). There will also be Demon emblems on the dash & on the interoir door covers. They came with a flat black snorkel hood scoop in the middle or twin painted scoops just inside the hood ridges. (I have both, two complete Demon front clips are sitting in my basement now). My 71 demon got broad-sided by a Ford Pick-up & was totalled. I did salvage the drive-train, complete front-clip, tail lights, interior, Dash,ect... Eventually I put the Demon Front clip on a Duster. For some reason the The Demon Hood didn't exactly match up with the Duster hood-hinges & reqired the holes in the hood-hinges to be extended 1/2 inch (or you could drill new bolt hole in the hood), so check that. Also check the frame right in front of the doors (the rust out there) & look in the trunk to see if the shocks have pushed up thru, look to see if the torsion bar sub-frame is Ok too (all can be fixed, but you don't want a 'fixed' car if resale/show value is important to you... it isn't important to me). A few years ago I stopped to look at a Demon for sale. It was ragged-out, in sad but restorable shape, 318 4-sp., & the interior was a mess.... the kid had put drag-racer style buckets in it. The car basically looked like a young hotrodder had just been pounding it like I did with my 1st Demon at the age of 19 (& probably having the time of his life in his 'mucle-car'). The asking price was $3500. I thought that was kind of high, but I wanted it. I thought about it for a few days & went to go take another look.... it was gone. Someone did me a favor by poneying up the $3500. How did that do me a favor? Well, a few months later a came across a '73 Duster, 318 4-sp., fold-down rear seat for $1200. It was listed in a weekly paper that comes out every Wednesday, but they actually deliver it to the stores on Tuesday night. I called the guy on Tuesday Night as soon as I saw the ad & told him I would take it sight unseen (luckily, he worked a night-shift job & had just got home so I didn't feel so bad about calling a stranger after mid-night). I went to his house on Wednesday to pay for the car & he told me his phone had been ringing off the hook all day about the car... close to 20 other people called about it. He said he was selling it because his old furnace had finally given up the ghost and, well, winter was fast approaching. The $1200 Duster is in alot better cosmetic shape than the $3500 Demon was and probably was beat less. I might stick one of the Demon Front-clips on it next spring, I'm thinking about it, & adding a 392/400 stroker (360). It will still be a Duster, but a Duster with a Dart/Demon front clip. I don't buy them for resale value or to take them to shows... I buy them because I like to drive them (hard) & it makes me feel good bee-bopping around town in a sweet ride. PS. Anybody else see Death Proof yet? The Kill Bill, Natual Born Killers guy made it. He has an 18 minute mopar car-duel in it... The Charger from Bullet (driven by Kurt Russell) bangs fenders with the Challenger from Vanishing Point (operated by three chicks). They said they actually used (and destroyed) a dozen of each car... how sad. There is also a 70ish Nova & a Rustang in the movie. The Nova is named Death Proof and has a skull/crossbones on the hood. |
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