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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / December 2007Drooping headliner in minivan - what to do?
Both Chrysler minivans I have owned have had this problem! The headliner cloth has come loose over both the front driver and passenger seats, but nowhere else. My regular garage suggests a specialty car interior/headliner shop. Is there a cheaper alternative for a 10 year-old-minivan that I'll be keeping for a few more years, but does not need to look professionally repaired? I can imagine a spray adhesive, then using a small wallpaper roller to move it through the cloth, and seal it to the underlayer. Could this work? > Both Chrysler minivans I have owned have had this problem! The > headliner cloth has come loose over both the front driver and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > spray adhesive, then using a small wallpaper roller to move it through > the cloth, and seal it to the underlayer. Could this work? Not very well. Might as well trim it out with a razor blade, brush down the molded backer, and paint it. I believe 3M makes an adhesive for this/ > Both Chrysler minivans I have owned have had this problem! The > headliner cloth has come loose over both the front driver and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > spray adhesive, then using a small wallpaper roller to move it through > the cloth, and seal it to the underlayer. Could this work? In article <fa187913-0a7f-4328-b87b-137378e1441d@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.co m>, > Both Chrysler minivans I have owned have had this problem! The > headliner cloth has come loose over both the front driver and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > spray adhesive, then using a small wallpaper roller to move it through > the cloth, and seal it to the underlayer. Could this work? My local CarQuest store has push pins in various colors that one can install to fix the problem. Also available where Dorman products are sold (almost all parts stores) <http://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/item-dtl.w?sid= 0x00fbce02&item=74361&icrid=&clt=hwrap1&vsrch_str=headliner&vsrch_ brand=ALL&vsrch_cat=ALL&st_amount=&end_amount=&start=&vfrom=&prev= &vnext=&category_list=:0> Is there a cheaper alternative > for a 10 year-old-minivan that I'll be keeping for a few more years, > but does not need to look professionally repaired? I can imagine a > spray adhesive, then using a small wallpaper roller to move it through > the cloth, and seal it to the underlayer. Could this work? I once used a waterbased contact cement to aghere my fallen headlinr in a 72 Dodge PU. Stayed nice and tight for the additional 30 years I owned the truck. FWIW I would get the vehicle in a warn place and condition and then roll on the adhesive on both the headlier and what it is to be adhered to. The adhesive does not work well in cold conditions. Bob AZ Bob AZ wrote: > Is there a cheaper alternative >> for a 10 year-old-minivan that I'll be keeping for a few more years, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bob AZ It somewhat depends on whats on the roof side of the liner. There was no way I could get the liner on a Chev. Cavalier I had once that did this because the lining of the liner was a cheap layer of foam rubber about 1/16 or 1/8" think. The reason it fell down in the first place was that the foam material had started rotting and turning to dust. I tried contact cement, which ended up holding the next layer of exposed foam dust to the roof while the rest of the liner fell away again in a matter of days (maybe even hours). My only comment is that if the liner has this foam backing, there is no way you will glue it back on and have it stay. Options are either use the push pins someone mentioned or an upholstery shop. There's people that travel around to used car lots that replace liners. You can check a local lot to see when they're due to come back thru your area. The price last time I checked - about 10 years ago - was on the order of $55. SUre to be more now, and higher probably for a (larger) minivan. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > Bob AZ wrote: > > Is there a cheaper alternative [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Ayup, he problem IS the foam backing on the fabric and Chrysler minivans are infected with the foam eating blight. The proper fix involves removal of the molded headlining (after disassembling most of the side trim). The FSM tells one how. As suggested, fabric and glue are both readily available. I have a parts minivan whose ceiling is peppered with pushpins and an old Duster that soon will be. :) 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut in it lasts a good long time the headliner is real easy to remove and one it is out you can easyly repair the fabric to the backer don't be afraid to pull it loose more were it is loose and spray the 3m goo to the backer i never use a roller but a big peice of cardboard to pressure fabric to backer after spraying on goo then let it dry and set up which doesn't take but a hour or less Bob AZ wrote: > Is there a cheaper alternative > > for a 10 year-old-minivan that I'll be keeping for a few more years, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Bob AZ > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fabric to backer after spraying on goo then let it dry and set up which > doesn't take but a hour or less Gluing liner that is in good condition back in place is a different story than gluing one that the surface (foam) that you are gluing has a thickness and is rotting and turning to dust. The best glue in the world won't hold that. You end up with glue that is coated with foam dust, and the liner totally fallen. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') Not only that but if you spray the material with any kind of glue it may bleed thru. If it separates from the foam it is no good. Glenn >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut in [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Glenn Is there a TSB or anything out there for this issue? Seems that there are more than just a few isolated instances of the rotting/sagging headliner problem on fairly new Chrysler/Dodge vehicles. My Dak is an '03, and the headliner foam's pretty rotted. Also, anything on the bubbling clearcoat? I've got that problem as well. Simply bad news for a vehicle that's less than 5 years old. > >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut in [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > bubbling clearcoat? I've got that problem as well. Simply bad news for > a vehicle that's less than 5 years old. I have noticed that the headliner lasts for about 10 years before it starts to deteriorate. At least with the vehicles I have owned. There are no TSB's on this or paint. Glenn >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Glenn Glenn, thanks for the info. Unfortunately, my experience has sort of soured me on Chrysler/Dodge, as this is the first vehicle I've ever had where both the paint and headliner haven't lasted 5 years. > >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > soured me on Chrysler/Dodge, as this is the first vehicle I've ever had > where both the paint and headliner haven't lasted 5 years. The sagging headliner thing happens to a lot of cars. I had a 88 Olds that did it, same issue, the foam rotted away. I've heard a number of theories. The guy that I had replace the headliner in the Olds told me that the factory used a glue that was incompatible with the foam and it caused the foam to disintegrate over time. I have also heard it happens more often to cars that are in southern climates because they get hotter inside. I'm not sure if the smoking is an issue - I own a 94 T&C that the prior owner definitely smoked in - I don't smoke - it's headliner has never fallen. I also own a 84 Chevy Celebrity wagon that has the original foam headliner and it has not disintegrated either. As for the paint - that's a fairly easy one. The general consensus with few exceptions is that cars that have clearcoat delaminate aren't waxed regularly. Or, they are waxed but they are in areas that have a lot of acid rain which washes the car wax away much more rapidly than the owner expects. You cannot expect clearcoat to substitute for car wax. Solar radiation - ie: ultraviolet - will over time bleach and destroy paint. It makes no difference what kind of paint is on it or how expensive it is. I had my 68 Torino completely repainted about 20 years ago with Sikkens, which was one of the most expensive auto paints I could find, with a lot of glossy brochures claiming their paint clearcoat was so good you never needed to wax. Stupid me, I didn't wax it, and today the paint has faded and the clear has delaminated in a number of places. Car wax is designed to absorb UV and the UV will cause the car wax to disintegrate. It is like adding sunscreen at the beach. You can go to the beach and never put on sunscreen and get sunburn after sunburn and after 10 years of this your skin will look like an old rawhide football. Or you can put on sunscreen and your skin will remain soft and young looking. Ted >> >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . >> >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > I also own a 84 Chevy Celebrity wagon that has the original foam > headliner and it has not disintegrated either. Never smoked in the truck, and I do live in South Florida. However, I'm still surprised that the foam on a 4-year old headliner is basically rotted away - heat or not. My '93 Mustang's headliner is still fine after 14 years, as is my '96 MPV's after 11 years. > As for the paint - that's a fairly easy one. The general consensus > with few exceptions is that cars [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Ted I'm not a polish-n-wax freak, but I do take care of my vehicles. Again, I'm surprised that the paint hasn't lasted 4 years. I haven't waxed the MPV or Mustang in over 6 years, and the paint on those vehicles is just fine (like the headliners). Even without wax, I can't see _any_ factory paint job bubbling in 4 years. > >> >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > >> >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > Even without wax, I can't see _any_ factory paint job bubbling in 4 > years. Do you garage all 3 of them? South Florida isn't known for acid rain, but it does have much stronger sun than most of the rest of the country. Also, what are the colors? I guess I'm a bit unbelieving since if you haven't waxed the other 2 cars in 6 years I can't really believe you waxed this one every couple of months. Normal car wax only last a couple months. The synthetic waxes can last up to a year but that's about it. Ted >> >> >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . >> >> >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > but it does have much stronger sun than most of the rest of the > country. Also, what are the colors? '93 Mustang - Calypso Green (sort of light teal) - waxed religiously 4 times/year when new, started slacking off as the years went by. Garaged about 3/4 of its life. '96 Mazda MPV - Gold - waxed about 5 times in its life. Garaged about 3/4 of its life, although it spends every day in the elements. '03 Dakota - Black (ah, there's the rub) - waxed religiously 3 times/year for the first couple years, then slacked off a couple years ago. Clearcoat started bubbling about a year ago, headliner started sagging around same time. > I guess I'm a bit unbelieving since if you haven't waxed the other 2 > cars in 6 > years I can't really believe you waxed this one every couple of > months. See above. > Normal > car wax only last a couple months. The synthetic waxes can last up to > a year > but that's about it. > > Ted Ted, even if I'd never have waxed the truck and still being in South Florida, the clearcoat should still be fine after only about 4 years or so. I can certainly see 8-10 years, but only 4-5? No way. > >> >> >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > >> >> >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof [quoted text clipped - 142 lines] > Florida, the clearcoat should still be fine after only about 4 years or > so. I can certainly see 8-10 years, but only 4-5? No way. Actually you got only about 2 years out of the clearcoat, it seems to me. (unprotected by wax, that is) And I agree, it's too short. You have some mitigating factors in that it's black (finish gets hotter) but it's probably just one of those things. I suppose it's probably too late to say black isn't an optimal color for areas that get a lot of sun. ;-) Just for grins you might check the used car lots and advertisements for other black '03 Dakotas and see if they have the same problem. My guess is not. I suspect you just got a bad paint job on yours. I know that the minivan's (at least) did have some paint problems for a few years back in the 90s with certain colors. White seems to have been one of those colors. As for the headliner, that really is cheap to fix, as others have said. If you often park outside in the hot sun you might take to leaving the windows cracked to keep the interior temp down, that might help. Your options on the clearcoat are: 1) Do nothing and keep wax on it, religiously. That will keep the color coat intact and keep the body panels from rusting. The clear will probably stop peeling but the whole thing will look like hell 2) use car polish, then wash carefully, then use a rattle-can to respray the clear coat. It will look like hell. But you won't have to bother continuing to keep wax on it. Like #1 this is a "preserve the body panels from rusting" option. 3) wet-sand the areas that are peeling until smooth and all evidence of the peeling is gone. Then scuff them and scuff outside of the areas with a 3M grey scuff pad and scuffing gel (from any auto parts place) and respray the color base coat (several times) then the clearcoat, feathering it into the existing finish. This will look less like hell, and you can also use rattle-cans but the color won't match the existing paint. This is kind of a cross between a decent repaint job and a looks-like-hell-but-preserves-the-body job, and I think it's nutty since it requires a whole lot of effort and the results look crummy. But people do it. 4) Have a body shop do a proper repaint. Since this is an '03, you probably have enough mileage on it that you would take a loss selling it before it starts falling apart, meaning your probably gonna keep it until you have used it up. In other words the economics of it make it pointless to do anything other than #2, unless you have some kind of vanity streak. WIth any luck, sometime in the next 5 years you will be struck by someone in a fender-bender and you can get their insurance to pay for a repaint. To be perfectly honest, I think clearcoats on most cars are completely stupid. This is one of those "new car buyer attractant" things they do. It's not very utilitarian. I think for most cars it's just a lot better to layer on additional color coats, forget the clear coat, and tell people if they want the car to continue looking good they need to wax it regularly. That's what they did in the olden days and it worked pretty well. Of course it limits the color choices, but sh.t man, you bought a black vehicle - how many different color variations are needed for black!!! Ted >> >> >> >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is >> >> >> >> >> > yellow . this is what i use to redo headliners when i [quoted text clipped - 151 lines] > too late to say black isn't an optimal color for areas that get a lot > of sun. ;-) Possibly true, but the truck looked absolutely gorgeous when it was new. Still looks fairly decent, as long as you don't look at the roof. ;) > Just for grins you might check the used car lots and advertisements > for other black '03 Dakotas and see if they have the same problem. > My guess is not. I suspect you just got a bad paint job on yours. Agreed. > I know that the minivan's (at least) did have some paint problems for > a few years back in the 90s with certain colors. White seems to have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > leaving the windows cracked to keep the interior temp down, that might > help. Yes, I've already priced the headliner and the glue. First job is removing the old headliner and shell. Getting the shell in and out may be a trick, as it's a 2-door CC. > Your options on the clearcoat are: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > be struck by someone in a fender-bender and you can get their > insurance to pay for a repaint. Actually, there are other issues with the paint aside from the bubbling clearcoat. Hood and both doors are scratched from debris blowing across in Hurricane Wilma a couple years ago, and there was also an incident with a fallen ladder (roofers didn't tie ladder to the house, and it blew down into the truck in heavy wind) resulting in some minor body damage to the roof and driver's side door. So all in all, I'm going to leave the exterior as is and give the truck to my son next year, at which point I'll buy somthing else. > To be perfectly honest, I think clearcoats on most cars are completely > stupid. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Ted Not many, but the black looks simply awesome when it's all cleaned up and shined. That said, it's probably the most impractical color to own. Thanks for the feedback, Ted. > The sagging headliner thing happens to a lot of cars. I had a 88 Olds that > did it, same issue, the foam rotted away. I used to think it happened only on lower lines of GM cars (it had done it on a Cavalier I had owned), until I bought my mother's 88 Cadillac, and darn if its liner didn't fall (neither I nor my parents smoked, but perhaps the previous owner had?). Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') gee if it was gm product 3 years is the norm > >> >> > 3m makes a super heavyduty spray adhesive that is yellow . > >> >> > this is what i use to redo headliners when i do a moonroof cut [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > soured me on Chrysler/Dodge, as this is the first vehicle I've ever had > where both the paint and headliner haven't lasted 5 years. Stop smoking in your car. |
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