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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / January 20081994 Caravan Starting troubles
I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid but other than that it does nothing..Sometimes it takes 1 or 2 or even 10 times before it starts..Other times it will start fine for a few days...We have changed the starter/solenoid and it still does the same thing..Also changed the heavier cable going directly from the battery down to the bigger connection on the starter as that looked bad at one end but didn`t change the smaller wire going to the solenoid..That didn`t help either.... My tester says the battery is fine but it`s only a 650 CCA one so maybe it`s to whimpy when it`s chilly?..Maybe the relay? (I took one from an Eclipse which seemed the same but may not be and that changed nothing)....My brother seems to think this started soon after we changed the heater core and had the dash all apart ..Any ideas where I should look?..Thanks a million! change your neutral safety switch on your transmission... >I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when > you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > started soon after we changed the heater core and had the dash all > apart ..Any ideas where I should look?..Thanks a million! > change your neutral safety switch on your transmission... They said they hear the solenoid click. If the neutral safety switch were bad, the solenoid would not be activated when the key was turned, would it? Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when > you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > started soon after we changed the heater core and had the dash all > apart ..Any ideas where I should look?..Thanks a million! Assuming the battery and cables are in good shape you probably need a starter. It sounds as if the contacts for the solenoid are worn out and not making good contact. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech >> I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when >> you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Glenn Beasley > Chrysler Tech They've already BTDT. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > >> I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when > >> you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') I tell ya, I better start reading before I post to these!!! > I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when > you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > started soon after we changed the heater core and had the dash all > apart ..Any ideas where I should look?..Thanks a million! You need someone to look at it that knows how to troubleshoot with a multimeter. For example - they could see if the big red wire were delivering voltage when the solenoid pulled in. If the solenoid is pulling in, and you have voltage at the big red hot wire, then the solenoid or starter motor are bad. Maybe you got a bad one? Anyway - without some smart troubleshooting with a meter, you or whoever else is looking at it is just wasting time and money. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > You need someone to look at it that knows how to troubleshoot with a > multimeter. For example - they could see if the big red wire were [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Anyway - without some smart troubleshooting with a meter, you or whoever > else is looking at it is just wasting time and money. I have a good multi-meter and am pretty swift with it (Use to build and repair linear amps for CBs)..Tell me where to put it and what to look for and I`ll investigate..I took the old starter to Advance for them to test tonight and when the guy there just had the larger hot wire hanging loosely on the terminal it did the same thing (Clicked but wouldn`t start) but once he pulled the wire tightly so it had a solid contact it started 10 times in a row >> You need someone to look at it that knows how to troubleshoot with a >> multimeter. For example - they could see if the big red wire were [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > but wouldn`t start) but once he pulled the wire tightly so it had a > solid contact it started 10 times in a row Get a schematic and take it from there. If you don't have an FSM, sign up for a subscription at www.alldata.com - $25. With the subscription, you will have access to factory schematics right out of the FSM. You need to trace out and verify the control circuits (volts) all the way to the solenoid coil, and the power circuits (volts) - from the battery to the starter - under load. If you know how to troubleshot circuits, it should be a piece of cake for you. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Don't forget to check the ground circuit, especially the connection to the engine\transmission. > I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when > you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > started soon after we changed the heater core and had the dash all > apart ..Any ideas where I should look?..Thanks a million! You replace the positive wire from the battery to the starter, but have you checked the ground wire? Did you replace the starter and solenoid, or just the solenoid? The starter is a DC brush motor, and when the brushes wear down it will do funky things like this. If you only replaced the solenoid, then it could be the brushes are worn out.  SignatureGyz If a man is speaking in the middle of the forest and there is no woman around to hear him, is he still wrong? >> I have a 94 Caravan.. 3.0 engine..Automatic.... For like a month when >> you go to start it you can hear the loud click of the starter solenoid [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > funky things like this. If you only replaced the solenoid, then it could > be the brushes are worn out. I took his (?) statement "We have changed the starter/solenoid and it still does the same thing" to mean they replaced both, but maybe not. Also of course they could have gotten a bad replacement. But someone needs to do some genuine troubleshooting (with a meter or light). Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > I took his (?) statement "We have changed the starter/solenoid and it > still does the same thing" to mean they replaced both, but maybe not. > Also of course they could have gotten a bad replacement. But someone > needs to do some genuine troubleshooting (with a meter or light). You`re funny :-) Yes we replaced both the starter/solenoid but I shall look into the possibility that the replacement may be faulty as well..Also will check the ground...If this fails I shall trace all the wires and connections this weekend..Thanks to everyone for all the helpful suggestions > You`re funny :-) Yes we replaced both the starter/solenoid but I >shall look into the possibility that the replacement may be faulty as >well..Also will check the ground...If this fails I shall trace all the >wires and connections this weekend..Thanks to everyone for all the >helpful suggestions One last thing Sara, when you checked/tested the battery did you really load test it or just test with a voltmeter? Most auto parts places have a battery tester. The newest digital battery testers measure the internal resistance of the battery - you key in the amphere hour to the tester and it will tell you immediately if the battery is bad or not. These will spot a bad or intermittent battery that would otherwise pass the old "leave the headlights on 15 minutes and see if they get dim" trick. Ted > One last thing Sara, when you checked/tested the battery did you > really load test it or just test with a voltmeter? I work at a heavy duty truck parts place and we have a multi- function tester for batteries as well as the starting/charging system and I used that to check the whole electrical system (It walks you thru the tests step-by-step and tells you when to start..turn on loads..rev the engine etc)..It showed everything was fine electrically..Plus being the skeptic I am I moved my newer 1000 CCA battery from my Jeep 4x4 into the van and that didn`t help On Jan 16, 2:41 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com> wrote: >> One last thing Sara, when you checked/tested the battery did you >> really load test it or just test with a voltmeter? > I work at a heavy duty truck parts place and we have a multi- >function tester for batteries Well, if you do your troubleshooting and still come up empty handed my advice is to go to a wrecker and get another starter/selonoid and swap it out for testing. I've had many years of buying rebuilt starters and installing them in the heaps I drive. For the most part the rebuilt parts/starter/alternator/etc. are OK - nothing perhaps to write home about, but they do the job. However, twice I have had the experience of installing a brand-new rebuilt part, and having it fail out of the box. One time it was a water pump for a VW rabbit, and the other time it was a starter - and it did exactly what yours did. You can tear your hair out digging for the problem when you make an assumption and the one flaw you have made in your troubleshooting here is ASSUMING that the new starter is good. When my new starter failed out of the box I took it in and they tested it on a bench tester and it passed - however luckily for me the clerk was wise in the ways of these, and instead of simply connecting it, observing the starter working, then handing it back to me saying it was good, he rapidly connected and disconnected the starter in succession - which rattled around the selonoid contacts no doubt - and the 3rd or 4th time the starter refused to work. As Sherlock Holmes said, when all reasonable possibilities have been eliminated, the only possibility, no matter how unlikely, is the solution. As -I- say, when -repairing- electrical or electronic systems, the ONLY positive proof that you were right in your diagnosis is when you have the device put back together and in production, and it's had enough time to develop a track record of working. I'm sure the airplane mechanics that last serviced the Boeing 777 that just crashed at Heathrow the other day had repeatedly tested and retested their work before they let it go out the door. Yet it still crashed (fortunately, nobody died) Ted > Well, if you do your troubleshooting and still come up empty handed > my advice is to go to a wrecker and get another starter/selonoid and > swap it out for testing. I went to the junkyard and got one today to try out..It was from a 95 Caravan but it looks fairly new so maybe whoever owned the van replaced it not long before the thing got junked..Or else they had replaced it thinking that would cure whatever they finally junked it for...But the high temp is suppose to be 26 here tomorrow with high winds so I may put off any sort of testing..Spent all day today changing a starter for someone else > the one flaw you have made in your troubleshooting here is ASSUMING that > the new starter is good. � True...It just seemed odd to me that BOTH the old and the new started would be faulty in the exact same manner..I guess it`s not impossible it could happen...But we shall see..So far it still starts but sometimes takes 2-5 tries..other times it will start 5 times in a row on the first try > I'm sure the airplane mechanics that last serviced the Boeing 777 > that just crashed at Heathrow the other day had repeatedly tested > and retested their work before they let it go out the door. �Yet it > still crashed (fortunately, nobody died) Yes..That`s the thing about testing..It can be testing perfectly fine but that next time it`s turned on may be the time it doesn`t work..Even if you test it 5 times maybe it will be the 6th time when it fails In article <e5611cdb-9ec5-42b9-aeef-405e3f272273@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.co m>, > True...It just seemed odd to me that BOTH the old and the new > started would be faulty in the exact same manner..I guess it`s not > impossible it could happen...But we shall see..So far it still starts > but sometimes takes 2-5 tries..other times it will start 5 times in a > row on the first try It would be a simple task to remove the solenoid cover and inspect the contacts and plunger to see if your rebuilt actually -was- rebuilt. >> I took his (?) statement "We have changed the starter/solenoid and it >> still does the same thing" to mean they replaced both, but maybe not. >> Also of course they could have gotten a bad replacement. But someone >> needs to do some genuine troubleshooting (with a meter or light). > > You`re funny :-)... What - you mean the "...his (?)..." thing? I wasn't sure with a name like Sara. Wasn't trying to be funny. So you're a guy with the name "Sara", or you're using your wife's/mother's/sister's computer? Call me sexist, but not many girls/women troubleshoot linear amps. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > What - you mean the "...his (?)..." thing? I wasn't sure with a name > like Sara. Wasn't trying to be funny. So you're a guy with the name > "Sara", or you're using your wife's/mother's/sister's computer? Call me > sexist, but not many girls/women troubleshoot linear amps. I`m a guy with the name Sara...Well technically I am transsexual...I was born male but now live mainly as female but am still "male" in the most important way :-)... Hopefully that won`t stop anyone from helping with my van problem..Thanks again! >> What - you mean the "...his (?)..." thing? I wasn't sure with a name >> like Sara. Wasn't trying to be funny. So you're a guy with the name [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > still "male" in the most important way :-)... Hopefully that won`t > stop anyone from helping with my van problem..Thanks again! Won't stop me. I had no idea that was the explanation. You were of course not obligated to divulge that, but thanks for explaining. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > >> What - you mean the "...his (?)..." thing? I wasn't sure with a name > >> like Sara. Wasn't trying to be funny. So you're a guy with the name [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Won't stop me. I had no idea that was the explanation. You were of > course not obligated to divulge that, but thanks for explaining. And of course, your also under no obligation to believe it is a true explanation, or even that the name Sara Brown is what he or she uses in real life. When I took my 95 T&C in to the local Firestone dealer a few weeks ago for new tires, the tire installer was most definitely a women, as was the tech who did the front end alignment (I have a lifetime alignment on that van) I can't say it applies to all women techs work quality but the van has no tire shimmy (due to improper balancing) nor does the tracking feel as though the alignment is off (and there is no feathering on the tire tread indicating improper toe) It's the first time since we got the van that I've been able to take it up to 90Mph without feeling like the tire imbalances are going to shake the front end apart. It feels as smooth at 90 as it does at 60. Too bad they don't make higher speed rating tires for the thing. Ted > > >> What - you mean the "...his (?)..." thing? I wasn't sure with a name > > >> like Sara. Wasn't trying to be funny. So you're a guy with the name [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Ted You would be surprised of how many tires are balanced properly and still cause the vehicle to shake because of piss poor tires. And they are a dime a dozen from all tire manufactures. Glenn > You would be surprised of how many tires are balanced properly and still > cause the vehicle to shake because of piss poor tires. And they are a dime a > dozen from all tire manufactures. > > Glenn I'm surprised at how many tire installers will not inform customers about bent wheels and install new tires on them anyway. Also, it makes me cringe to think how many installers have so much faith in the torque of the air gun.. whenever I get new tires, either I jack the car up at home and carry just the wheels to the tire store in another car, or I tell the guy I'm going to put the wheels back on myself with my tire iron right there on the spot. My cousin's F350 lost a wheel a couple weeks ago because the dip$hit tire installer didn't bother to put a breaker bar and a socket on the lugs after buzzing them on with the air wrench. My cousin said, "it's a really bad feeling when you see a 41 inch tire rolling past you at 60 mph"... i'll bet it is! > > You would be surprised of how many tires are balanced properly and still > > cause the vehicle to shake because of piss poor tires. And they are a dime a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > car, or I tell the guy I'm going to put the wheels back on myself with > my tire iron right there on the spot. You have to much time on your hands > My cousin's F350 lost a wheel a couple weeks ago because the dip$hit > tire installer didn't bother to put a breaker bar and a socket on the > lugs after buzzing them on with the air wrench. My cousin said, > "it's a really bad feeling when you see a 41 inch tire rolling past > you at 60 mph"... i'll bet it is! Not defending the loose tire thing but everyone makes mistakes. A rim, especially alluminun ones can be installed with an air air gun or even a torque wrench and still be binding at the hub and will loosen up after the vheicle is driving several miles. It has happened to me in the past as well.I wonder why your cousin didnt bother to locate what the problem was that was making noise before the tire came off??? Im sure it didnt just pop off with out a warning. And what kind of work do you do and what mistakes do you make? Do you erase your mistakes with an erasure or back space the the key board key? Just a thought Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > Not defending the loose tire thing but everyone makes mistakes. That`s true..One time I was working on my old Astro van and intended to go back and tinker some more so I just laid the hood down softly instead of slamming it shut and before I knew it I had gotten 5 phone calls and had to do some online work and suddenly it was late and I decided to head home forgetting the hood wasn`t latched..Everything was fine until I got on the interstate and accelerated up to 65 MPH..I noticed the hood begin to flap slightly and instantly knew what was wrong but before I could even say, "Oh Sh*t!" and reach for the brakes the wind caught under the hood and pushed it like a sail and it slammed flat back against the windshield at 65MPH shattering it completely..Ugh.....But back to the tire thing...The local mass transit company recently changed from steel to aluminum rims on all their busses and didn`t change the wheel studs so as a result even bottomed out the lugs weren`t totally tight and a number of busses lost wheels...Who knows how many people changed those wheels or were involved with the process but no one ever thought of that little glitch > One time I was working on my old Astro van and intended > to go back and tinker some more so I just laid the hood down softly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > slammed flat back against the windshield at 65MPH shattering it > completely... Ha! Reminds me of the hilarious scene in the movie "Canonball Run". Mel Tillis was driving one of the cars in the cross country street race that the movie was about. He heads into this residential neighborhood just flying, and the audience can see he is headed into a cul-de-sac with a curb, some bushes just beyond the curb, and a swimming pool just beyond the bushes. The front wheels hit the curb, the car goes airborne, and the hood flies up and back against the windshield. With the car flying in the air, heading for the swimming pool, you hear Mel *sing* - not say, but sing to his passengers - "I can't see sh.t can you!?". (For those of you that don't know who Mel Tillis is, he is a real life country singer that has a stammering problem when he talks, but when he sings, no stammer.) I don't remember much else about the movie, but I will never forget that scene. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > "Nza" <the...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You have to much time on your hands Maybe so, but I take my personal safety seriously. And I damned sure ain't going to take the word of Hector's air wrench when all he's thinking about is his next burrito. > Not defending the loose tire thing but everyone makes mistakes. A rim, > especially alluminun ones can be installed with an air air gun or even a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you make? Do you erase your mistakes with an erasure or back space the the > key board key? I was a mechanic for about 8 years myself.. obviously, not to the credentialed level of yourself... I'm not saying I've never made mistakes and that I don't still make mistakes. Fortunately, though, none of my mistakes have almost cost someone his/her life.. True, the wheel coming off most likely gave plenty of warning, but I'm sure the radio was blasting (no excuse). Also, it's hard to hear stuff like that over the hum of the 41" tires and the 5 inch straight pipe.. I guess it *was* a bad example -- trucks like that shouldn't be on surface streets anyway. Georgia is pretty lax about rednecked trucks. As far as the backspace is concerned -- would be nice to have a real life one sometimes! > And of course, your also under no obligation to believe it is a > true explanation, or even that the name Sara Brown is what he > or she uses in real life. I`m the blonde in the back row..You can see my name under the photo..So there! http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=13393 |
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