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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / June 2008PT Cruiser 2001 - Brakes (Autozone)
Ok here's the problem. I've changed my own brakes forever and never had this problem. I got new rotors and pads at Autozone. Then about 6 months in I started hearing a grinding or groaning sound while braking. I looked at the pads and they had tons of life. I looked at the rotors and they were smooth. Nothing seemed wrong. I wen on driving for a year plus more just living with it as it seemed to stop well and it wasn't warn out. I finally gave up and decided to get my rotors turned as they seemed weirdly worn. The pad wore a groove the entire size of the pad into the rotor. On other cars they seem to wear all the way out to the edge of the rotor I think. This looked odd. But, I turned them to totally flat again and got new pads (for free because of lifetime warranty.) I installed them all and viola, the noise was gone. Cool. Then about 2 months later the groaning is back. There is no deep groove yet but they are wearing out the same. A couple of questions: Do others see that PT rotors wear out this way? Wide groove. Would the drum brakes in the back have anything to do with this? There is no noise back there and I haven't changed them in all this time. They hardly wear out fast. Might these just be bad rotors? Soft like silly putty? Don't want to reinvent the wheel (pun intended) or spend a ton on the car. Thanks in advance. In article <N6Yzj.19845$ES.5043@trnddc05>, "Just Me (remove <nospam> to reply)" <2000-nospam-cam@verizon.net> wrote: > Ok here's the problem. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Do others see that PT rotors wear out this way? Wide groove. Nope. > Would the drum brakes in the back have anything to do with this? Possibly > There is no noise back there and I haven't changed them in all this time. > They hardly wear out fast. Maybe the wheel cylinder pistons are seized and they're not working at all. > Might these just be bad rotors? Soft like silly putty? The cheapy third world produced rotors are like that. > Don't want to reinvent the wheel (pun intended) or spend a ton on the car. Does 'it's your brakes' play into this at all? Nope, brakes don't play at all. Work fabulous except for the noise. The noise is lighter now, but it will get worse in the months to come. It will stop great for over a year but continue to get noisier. > In article <N6Yzj.19845$ES.5043@trnddc05>, > "Just Me (remove <nospam> to reply)" [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Does 'it's your brakes' play into this at all? In article <oTAAj.2708$hr3.2631@trnddc04>, "Just Me (remove <nospam> to reply)" <2000-nospam-cam@verizon.net> wrote: > Nope, brakes don't play at all. So, you're saying that you don't consider your cars brakes to be important, because that is what I meant. > Work fabulous except for the noise. Noisy brakes do not work fabulous. There is either something wrong with the component(s) chosen or there is something wrong with the installation. > The noise is lighter now, but it will get worse in the months to come. > It will stop great for over a year but continue to get noisier. Well, hopefully the increased noise will serve as a warning and who ever may be potential victim has a chance to get out of the way. Apparently you have never experienced the world of high performance motorsports. The braking systems on F1, Indy, Sprint, Midgets,etc and even good ol' boy NASCAR are totally noisy and unacceptable to the majority of North American motorists but I guarantee they will out brake anything on the street. Very aggressive brake lining materials are noisy and lots of European performance cars owners want the grind and squeal of brakes. I am in no way saying that his noise is ok but just because there is brake noise does not mean there is a problem. The common brake squeal (not warning squealer) does not affect braking performance. It's just a Midas selling point. > Apparently you have never experienced the world of high performance > motorsports. What an asinine opening statement. > The braking systems on F1, Indy, Sprint, Midgets,etc and even > good ol' boy NASCAR are totally noisy and unacceptable to the majority of > North American motorists but I guarantee they will out brake anything on the > street. And this has -what- to do with a stock PT Cruiser? (other than you saw a 'I need to wave my dick' opportunity) > Very aggressive brake lining materials are noisy and lots of > European performance cars owners want the grind and squeal of brakes. A PT Cruiser is a "european performance car?" > I am > in no way saying that his noise is ok but just because there is brake noise > does not mean there is a problem. It certainly does. Whether it is major or minor is impossible to determine. > The common brake squeal (not warning > squealer) does not affect braking performance. It's just a Midas selling > point. It indicates that a piss poor job was done and that details were overlooked. Brake squeal -may- be acceptable on a dump truck, it certainly isn't on any passenger car. FYI, the Audis' and BMWs' that I service have quiet brakes that function at or above their design intent. Their owners wouldn't settle for anything less. > Ok here's the problem. > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Don't want to reinvent the wheel (pun intended) or spend a ton on the car. Could be that those pads are unusually hard. (Not unreasonable, considering they're giving you such a long warranty on them.) This is why you don't want to use race duty pads on your street car. Hard pads last longer, but eat the rotors (and, incidentally, don't stop as well as softer one, unless you're racing & getting them very hot). When you put your new pads on, are you putting anything between the pads and the calipers (that large back area on the outboard pad; the piston contact area on the inboard pad) to dampen vibrations? I'm not saying that that *is* your problem, but if you're not using something there, that *could* be your problem. Silicone brake grease works as well as anything - just a nice thin coating - nothing super heavy that could migrate over to the active friction area. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > When you put your new pads on, are you putting anything between the pads > and the calipers (that large back area on the outboard pad; the piston [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') Not to mention how the new rotors were cleaned. Degrease in parts washer, rinse with brake cleaner, wash with hot soapy water, rinse and dry with clean towel watching for any signs of metal dust. Then there's the ways, lands, bushings and pins that the pads and calipers slide on, wire brushed, filed, scraped, sandblasted (whichever is appropriate) so no rust is left adhering and properly lubricated. Similar for the wheel hub where the rotor mounts... Most people who claim that they know how to do a brake job really don't. Yep, Used silicone brake grease. The noise isn't that squeal that is normally a vibration issue. Nor is it the high pitched grind of the indicators (since it never gets down to them.) It is truly a groan. Kind of like the sound rubber brake pads sometimes make on a bicycle, only MUCH deeper. Very hard to describe. Never heard it before this. I buy into the comment made that the pads are too hard for the rotors. That makes sense. Weird though since they are both the Autozone parts. Good ol' Duralast. Semi-metallic pad - MKD841 Std. Rotor - 53000 You would think they were made for each other. But maybe not. Purchased both together 07/2005. First groaning in mid 2006. Really loud groaning in 2007. Turned rotors 12/2007 new pads at that time. Light groaning again 02/2008. Since my brakes have never given out or had ANY feeling of less that perfect stopping power I feel pretty safe driving around like this. If they felt weak or slipped or had any play in the pedal I would stop driving immediately. Pretty certain this is a product problem or some type of mechanical adjustment that needs to be made. Hate to replace product again if an adjustment is the issue. Don't know of any adjustment that would allow the pad to ride further out on the rotor. Haven't yet heard of any other PT drivers that have responded about their rotor wear pattern, whether it wears the rotor all the way to the edge or not. Thanks to all those that gave reasonable responses. > When you put your new pads on, are you putting anything between the pads > and the calipers (that large back area on the outboard pad; the piston [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') > ...Don't know of any adjustment that would allow the pad to ride further > out on the rotor. Haven't yet heard of any other PT drivers that have > responded about their rotor wear pattern, whether it wears the rotor all > the way to the edge or not. Funny you mention that - the LH cars had two different size rotors (Ø282mm and Ø297mm), and two interchangeable version (PHP and non-PHP) of the larger size. For a long time, the aftermarket world had the smaller rotor and the PHP version of the larger rotor listings exactly backwards. If one ended up with the wrong one, the pads would either be hanging over the edge a little over 1/4", or leave a little over 1/4" wide annular ring untouched (and the rotor would scrape the caliper). I doubt there is the same scenario with the PT's, but thought I'd mention it just in case. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') > ...the LH cars had two different size rotors... To be more specific: 2nd gen LH cars. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') I put the cheaper Chinese built rotors on my Concorde. got noise and they turned blue within 2 miles. bought the more expensive American made ones, no issues. might want to make sure the pistons are not broken inside the calipers, you didn't say anything about rebuilding or replacing them. I've had pistons break and cock sideways. also the seal inside can cause issues. usually the rotor will wear more on one side than the other but it can also cause weird wear. I don't do AutoZone. too many miss boxed parts, alternators that fail over and over, and stupid parts that supposedly supersede other parts but the are built completely wrong so there's no way they can even fit. clerks don't have a clue when I tell them a 3 port heater control valve cant replace a 4 port, etc, etc. they do a good job selling hotwheels and candy bars up front. I do NAPA or car quest. > Ok here's the problem. > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Thanks in advance. >> Ok here's the problem. >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Thanks in advance. My 2001 PT did the same (wide grove) with the factory brake pads and rotors. The rotors were shot at 25,000 miles. PT's are known for this. Lousy materials from the factory is all I can say. I replaced them with rotors from Advance Auto and put ceramic pads on. Best combo I could have made. No squeek or grind even 30,000 miles later. > >> Ok here's the problem. > >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > rotors from Advance Auto and put ceramic pads on. Best combo I could > have made. No squeek or grind even 30,000 miles later. Unreal, I had the same bad luck with the disks and the pads, did the same thing, upgraded disks and ceramic pads. That was on our 2005 Convertible. We now have a Caliber and glad of it! To both of you guys that went ceramic... What brand of pads and rotors did you use? I am in CA and don't have local Advance Auto and the site sends me to partsamerica.com. Just like to know what is successful. >>>> Ok here's the problem. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > same thing, upgraded disks and ceramic pads. That was on our 2005 > Convertible. We now have a Caliber and glad of it! >>>> I've changed my own brakes forever and never had this problem. I got >>>> new rotors and pads at Autozone. Then about 6 months in I started >>>> hearing a grinding or groaning sound while braking. Autozone pads and rotors => Cheap Chinese-made junk. Check a reputable parts store like NAPA or CarQuest, and if they offer different grades of rotor buy the high-end rotors, not the budget variety. > >>>> I've changed my own brakes forever and never had this problem. I got > >>>> new rotors and pads at Autozone. Then about 6 months in I started [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Check a reputable parts store like NAPA or CarQuest, and if they offer > different grades of rotor buy the high-end rotors, not the budget variety. I went with the factory heavy duty rotors and ceramic pads from the Chrysler dealer here in my town. Funny how our 2003 brakes never had the problems that the 2005 Convertible had. I hear akibono is good.for pads. good stopping power and don't get the heavy brake dust build up. >> >>>> I've changed my own brakes forever and never had this problem. I >> >>>> got [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Chrysler dealer here in my town. Funny how our 2003 brakes never had > the problems that the 2005 Convertible had.
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