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Car Forum / Chrysler Cars / July 20081998 Intrepid gauges went blank, now wont start
Wife called me frantically while on the road to say "all went dark, except check engine light came on". After couple of minutes, gauges came back and all seemed normal..until next time we tried to start. Car fired up but died immediately three times, then stopped cranking also. Battery voltage is good, and when it cranked, it did so with authority. All dash lights working now, just not cranking. 1998 Intrepid LS 3.2 Thanks for any help. Norm > Wife called me frantically while on the road to say "all went dark, > except check engine light came on". After couple of minutes, gauges [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > authority. All dash lights working now, just not cranking. 1998 > Intrepid LS 3.2 Thanks for any help. The two most likely causes: (1) Bad connection at the battery. The positive battery posts are very prone to severe corrosion on the 2nd gen. LH cars. Remove the cable clamp from the battery and clean all corrosion off with baking soda and water solution - use Coca-Cola full strength if it's hard and stubborn. Then inspect the clamp and cable, including the green fusible link, to make sure that there's still enough metal left to do the job. Repair or replace those items as needed. (2) Check the tightness of the positive jump post connections (next to the air filter box). Those connections can get loose. With the exception of the hot cable between the battery and the alternator (thru that green fusible link), *ALL* electrical power of the vehicle go thru that jump post - one cable in from battery, one cable out to starter, third cable out to everything else. When this connection gets loose, it is often intermittent - which is what you're seeing. Also check the tightness of the connection at the neg. jump post (on the passenger side strut tower - single cable and nut. That is the main ground for the entire vehicle. It is also possible for a battery to have an intermittent internal short. If your battery is 5 or more years old, you might ought to replace it anyway. Even if that's not causing this problem, it's due anyway. Might be ignition switch, but I'd go thru everything else first and eliminate those as the possibility - unless you can narrow it down with a multimeter if you know how to troubleshoot with that (to see where you're loosing voltage when cranking). Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Wow, thanks for the quick reply!! I will check on the battery/ground issues pronto. I'm wondering why it cranked so good for 3 times (within a minute) without starting, and then NOTHING! I will report of my findings in hopes that someone else may benefit. Thanks again Bill. >The two most likely causes: >(1) Bad connection at the battery. The positive battery posts are very [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my >address with the letter 'x') Hey Bill (or anybody)... Well... Battery loked like it has seen better days, so I replaced it and the terminals. I cleaned all cables you mentioned and tightened (they didn't look bad) It looks like the fusible link go's to the alt, so I checked for voltage there and have 12.7 volts. I'm now suspecting the ign sw. I have the plastic off the steering column and called it quits for now (hot & humid). Should I just get another sw, or are they ez to test? I didnt look to see how it removes as i was starting to feel frustrated and miserable. Anymore insight would br most welcome. I'm a r.r. engineer and have wiered hours, so I'll check here as often as I can. Thanks again. > Hey Bill (or anybody)... Well... Battery loked like it has seen better > days, so I replaced it and the terminals. I cleaned all cables you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > insight would br most welcome. I'm a r.r. engineer and have wiered > hours, so I'll check here as often as I can. Thanks again. OK - so you did include the positive jump post in your checks? You didn't specifically mention that, and sometimes people think that I'm talking about the battery posts when I mention that. I think you did check the jump post, but thought I better ask to be sure. I've taken the ignition lock cylinder out of mine before, but that is not the electrical part of the switch itself. I'd have to read the shop manual to see what would be involved in getting to the switch itself. If it was me, I'd get a multimeter out and start checking voltages to see where it was and where it wasn't when the problem occurs. There's a link to download a pdf FSM on www.dodgeintrepid.net, or you could get a one-year subscription on alldata.com for $25 - would include some (not all) info. out off the FSM, including *ALL* schematics/wiring diagrams. With the right troubleshooting skills, the schematics, and a multimeter, you can narrow it down to the failed component without guessing and possibly wasting time and money (and we know that Einstein proved that time = money) on replacing parts that may or may not be bad.. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Thanks again Bill. Yes, I took all the batt connections apart and cleaned/sanded until like new, including the pos jump post and the neg as well. Car wont even "click" when turning key now, as it did for three trys. three times it started, then died as soon as I let go of the ign sw, now nothing. The "elect" part of the sw seems to be opposite side of column from where you put key in. doesnt look like it will lend itself to internal diagnostics, but maybe I can verify that power is making it to the sw... then again, when i put the key in and turn, all lights on dash and acessories work normally. I'd even suspect the starter if it didnt crank so goo the three times it did when it wouldnt stat lit... Oh well... I love my NON-COMPUTER slant-6 d-100... I can fix it with a few curse words and some chewing gum. This one likes money...ugh Thamks for your help. I'll continue checking with this thread,and will let you know what I eventually find. PS: after proof reading this msg, it may sound like I swapped the batt, cleaned terms and THEN car wont even click. This is the wy it acted BEFORE swapping/cleaning also. So no change after aforementioned tasks. Starting to believe it's the ign sw, but would like to verify as "shotgun" approach gets costly fast...$90 for battery and terms so far... > Wife called me frantically while on the road to say "all went dark, > except check engine light came on". After couple of minutes, gauges [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- If you disconnected the battery you cleared all faults that may pertain to the problem you are having. If the problem occurs again I would have the TCM (Trans control module) PCM (power control module) BCM (body control Module) And since it was a no start have the SKIM module (theft module). You will have to have this done at a shop that has a scanner that will pull these codes. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech Hmmm...you right. Neighbor has a NICE scanner and found no codes, but while attempting further diagnostics, it says something like "cannot connect, check the ign sw is turned on, check grounds anf fuses"... could the ecm(s) be fried?? It is not cranking or anything...so I can't report on "occuring again". this one could get quite costly, I'm starting to realize...Thanks for chiming in...need all the help i can get... looks like it may be "off to the Dodge dealer" soon...nutz. >If you disconnected the battery you cleared all faults that may pertain to >the problem you are having. If the problem occurs again I would have the TCM [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Glenn Beasley >Chrysler Tech It's running!!! I put it in neutral and she fired right up!! I didnt shut it off yet, hoping to let it run long enough to re-trigger any erased codes from replacing battery this morning. Neutrral safety switch?? update: well... it starts and runs evrytime now! alarm indicator is flashing faster than normal,and for the cars first time, we have a "check engine" light. Airbox is off (from this mornings batt swap out) maybe that triggered the light?? What's your thoughts?? Anti theft problems??? Use the key trick on that vintage vehicle.. Place car in Park and with the engine off turn the ignition key to on position (not start), then off, then on, then off, then on. Leave the key in the on position and the check engine light will flash the trouble codes to you. These are all two digit codes, so for example, 5 short dashes, then a pause, then 5 more short flashes is a "55". The code sequence should start with a "12" and end with a "55". Post what you see and/or Google the codes to learn the cause of the check engine light. Bob > update: well... it starts and runs evrytime now! alarm indicator is > flashing faster than normal,and for the cars first time, we have a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption > =---- > Use the key trick on that vintage vehicle.. Place car in Park and with the > engine off turn the ignition key to on position (not start), then off, then [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a "55". Post what you see and/or Google the codes to learn the cause of the > check engine light. This car is a 1998 Intrepid ES (2nd generation LH), so the "key trick" (turn key from off to on 3 times in quick succession WITHOUT starting engine) will not cause the check engine light to flash, as it did for earlier vehicles. 1998+ LH cars have the key trick, but they will display check engine codes in the odometer display. Unfortunately, not all codes will be displayed, just major ones, and certainly no codes from other modules. If there are no codes to display, nothing will show up in the odometer display. Also, the Sentry Key Immobilizer Module (SKIM) was a new feature for LH cars for the 1999 model year, so a 1998 LH car should not have this feature. The illuminated check engine light implies that it probably wouldn't be a SKIM issue anyway. Greg Houston what month in 98 is on the door Vin tag? >> Use the key trick on that vintage vehicle.. Place car in Park and with >> the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Greg Houston > It's running!!! I put it in neutral and she fired right up!! I didnt > shut it off yet, hoping to let it run long enough to re-trigger any > erased codes from replacing battery this morning. Neutrral safety > switch?? One of your recent posts said it started and then cut off. A bad transmission range sensor (that's the assembly of switches on the tranny that serves as the "neutral safety switch") would prevent it from starting but would not cause it to cut off once running. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Ugh...pretty confused and dont trust my otherwise great car. Alarm light not flashing normally, appears to be flashing faster than normal when car is locked...dont have remote key (missing when i bought it) so using key to unlock. Wondering if faulty alarm module would cause above symptoms. Would scanner find that? It starts normally now. Perhaps putting it in neutral was just a fluke that it decided to start then. >One of your recent posts said it started and then cut off. A bad >transmission range sensor (that's the assembly of switches on the tranny [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my >address with the letter 'x') kind of a different subject here but I found a pair of remotes for both my 94 Concorde and my 96 LHS on eBay. 15 bucks each time. > Ugh...pretty confused and dont trust my otherwise great car. Alarm > light not flashing normally, appears to be flashing faster than normal [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption > =---- > kind of a different subject here but I found a pair of remotes for both my > 94 Concorde and my 96 LHS on eBay. 15 bucks each time. Yep just bought one for my '95 Grand Caravan from keyless4you for $12.04 shipped (after the 10% off promo coupon), currently waiting for it to arrive. It will be SO nice not having to open the driver's door and hit the little black button on the dash to pop the liftgate. > Ugh...pretty confused and dont trust my otherwise great car. Alarm > light not flashing normally, appears to be flashing faster than normal [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- Your having a SKIM module or key problem related to the theft system. You should be able to retrieve a fault code from the skim module assuming that your friends scan tool is capable of pulling these faults. more then likely the fault would be a mismatch problem and this is normally due to a bad key. How many keys do you have for this vehicle? Glenn Thanks for all you guys and your helpful input. Alas, it's time to take it to the dealer. My keys don't have the chips in them, if that helps, but maybe the "skim module" is causing all this. Here's the latest on what ails it. Car starts fine now (don't know what made it "decide" to start starting). Check eng light comes on after about a minute of running and the alarm indicator illuminates at the same time, no flash, just stays lit. Also my tachometer is not working (never a prob before), and my a/c not working, all of which were fine before this series of events. Could a module be causing all this?? Maybe a bad ground?? As mentioned before, I’m a railroad engineer, and have the most unpredictable hours, so spending hours under the hood of this thing is something I just can't do. I will, however, check this board when I return from work tomorrow, to see if my description has triggered any further ideas or checks that I can make. Otherwise, as soon as I can secure a ride BACK from the dealer, I will surrender the vehicle to the money thirsty spirits called "hourly rate". I'll certainly post any and all findings here. Thanks for all who have helped. I’m still puzzled as to why my buddies very hi-tech scanner couldn’t communicate with the vehicle. I remember it saying "no codes found", but as he went further it said the it couldn’t communicate. Another buddy mentioned a "personality key" that pertains to my vehicle may have to be inserted with the diag tool??? Oh well, hate to be a quitter but we’re needing the car back on the road. One last time anyone?? PS: My a/c wasn’t working last night, but I swapped the relays from washer pump, and it worked, but so did the washer pump?? Today, a/c not working again, and didn’t even try swapping relays anymore. Maybe I’m jiggling a loose connection somewhere?? I’m going to try swapping again for ha-ha’s Ready to punt. >Your having a SKIM module or key problem related to the theft system. You >should be able to retrieve a fault code from the skim module assuming that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Glenn Wow, just got back from a little test drive (about 15min after my last post, and figured I’d add the following: As stated, Tach not working. Neither are the speedometer, or the water temp gauge. A/C still not working (tried swapping relay, and jiggling). Check eng light comes on after about 30sec of running, followed by the alarm indicator (solid red light on top of dash). Tried "on-off-on-off-on trick. That doesn’t seem to work in this car (1998 Intrep LS 3.2), don’t know if that’s supposed to work in ALL years or not. Odometer not working either (guess it won’t be racking much mileage during this event). Anyway, just thought I’d be as specific as possible for any last ditch efforts. Thanks again. Off to work. > Wow, just got back from a little test drive (about 15min after my last > post, and figured I’d add the following: As stated, Tach not working. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > supposed to work in ALL years or not. Odometer not working either > (guess it won’t be racking much mileage during this event)... The miles are kept track of by the BCM - the numbers are simply sent to the gage cluster for display - so they're still being racked up when you drive it. > Anyway, > just thought I’d be as specific as possible for any last ditch > efforts. Thanks again. Off to work. Does the odometer ever display something like "no bus". Your symptoms are consistent with loss of the pci bus over which all the various computers and modules communicate - the only thing you have not mentioned that would go with that is that message in the odometer. I have two Concordes - essentially the same car as your Intrepid - one is a '98, the other a '99. I bought the '98 for peanuts from a local used car lot because of similar intermittent behavior that the dealer billed them thousands of dollars for but could not diagnose and fix, and it was getting the "no bus" message (during the periods of the failure). Turned out that the TCM module was bad - grounding out the two-wire bus signal. Any one of the modules that sees that bus could be dragging it down. If you're not getting the "no bus" message in your odometer, then ignore all of the above. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') Thanks "Max" and Bill. Odometer is reading last "known" mileage, and fails to accrue anymore miles while driving. Wonder how long it would take to diagnose. "Max", as far as the keys: I don’t THINK they have chips in them, because I just had the dealer punch me out a new one about 6 months ago, and it only cost me $15. As I recall from my GM products, a "coded" key cost far more and I can see the chip imbedded in the shaft of the key, are Chrysler products similar? I don’t know if this is the original anti-theft system or not. It has a little red flashing beacon on the top center of the dash and looks "factory" but I suppose could have been added. About 2 years ago, I took it to the dealer to have some "keyless entry" fobs made up, but they said at the time that one of the body modules were bad and that it would cost way more than the convenience to have it repaired. I wish I took notes, but they didn’t mention anything then about an "aftermarket" alarm system. They said that the module is not what would cost, but GETTING to it would. Hmmm. Oh well. I’m probably not going to take it in today as I have no ride back. Do you think "advance auto" free "check engine" light diagnostics may be equipped to pull codes from those modules? As mentioned before, my buddy’s could not. Bill, that "thousands of dollars" sure is nasty sounding. I must say clarify: this problem is NOT intermittent. It has not has not been right since the wife drove it home that night when the dash went out on her (and lit back up). It didn’t start for three days. Not sure why it decided to start, but it di after buddy put it in neutral. Now starts normally, bur all above symptoms persist. Even A/C is not working!! Confusing. If Dodge can figure it out in an hour, it would be well worth the money. > Thanks for all you guys and your helpful input. Alas, it's time to > take it to the dealer. My keys don't have the chips in them, if that [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- If your keys don't have chips in them, what is the alarm lite that is on? and if your vehicle is not equipped with the factory system you wont have a skim module The saga continues: Well, all bets are off. It started this morning and after two seconds, it died. Tried 3 more times and once again wont even crank (sound familiar). Don't know if this all points to one "sure fire" thing, but here I sit, back to needing a tow just to get it to the dealer. Just for ha-has, I stayed in the car, locked it, shut the door, then opened it from inside. The alarm (car horn) started to sound. This is normal for this car since we've owned it, dont know if thats how a "factory" alarm system is supposed to work. I just tried that to see if that wouldnt work, maybe further pointing to a faulty "skim" module. I await any further input or tests, from you guys, but getting tired of "bothering" you about it as well. Perhaps we've exhausted the possibilities of "long distance" troubleshooting. Will keep you posted to the outcome of all this, even it's the proverbial bullet to end it's misery. Thanks > Just for ha-has, I stayed in the car, locked it, > shut the door, then opened it from inside. The alarm (car horn) > started to sound. This is normal for this car since we've owned it, > dont know if thats how a "factory" alarm system is supposed to work. That's how my wife's 2001 Sebring factory alarm works. -Thief breaks window, reaches in and opens the door, alarm then goes off. This Sebring has the chip in key, but a key copy without the chip can open the door from the outside with no alarm sounding. When the non chip key copy is used to start the car, it only runs for a few seconds. > Your having a SKIM module or key problem related to the theft system. You > should be able to retrieve a fault code from the skim module assuming that > your friends scan tool is capable of pulling these faults. more then likely > the fault would be a mismatch problem and this is normally due to a bad key. > How many keys do you have for this vehicle? I don't think this car would have the SKIM (Sentry Key Immobilizer Module) system, as it is a 1998 Intrepid. Chrysler added the SKIM option for the 1999 model year, it was not previously available for LH vehicles. >> Your having a SKIM module or key problem related to the theft system. You >> should be able to retrieve a fault code from the skim module assuming that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > option for the 1999 model year, it was not previously available for LH > vehicles. Neither my '98 nor '99 Concordes have SKIM, a fact that I am very thankful for. From what I read on the LH car forums, SKIM is proof that technology can be a blessing or a curse. It makes DIY'ers more reliant on the dealer to do the simplest diagnostic and repair tasks at great expense, and impedes or eliminates being able to swap very inexpensive modules from salvage yards that otherwise would be perfectly interchangeable. IMO, the benefits of things like SKIM are far outweighed by the costs and troubles they cause. I would even submit that many cars go to the junk yard early because people simply can't afford the greatly inflated costs of troubleshooting and repair of systems that otherwise could be fixed very inexpensively by the DIY'er. Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x') yeah technology is a fickle lady...sometimes its great, but it can really bite you at times. and its made a lot of guys lazy these days too. no real troubleshooting skills from some guys I talk to! >>> Your having a SKIM module or key problem related to the theft system. >>> You [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address > with the letter 'x') > GregH39...@mailinator.com wrote: from salvage yards that otherwise would be perfectly interchangeable. > IMO, the benefits of things like SKIM are far outweighed by the costs > and troubles they cause. I would even submit that many cars go to the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my > address with the letter 'x') Yeah, like a power steering cooler! |
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