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Car Forum / Citroen Cars / November 2003Top Gear and the Classic XM!
I'm presuming that all the UK contributors were watching Top Gear last night where you would have seen the creation of the "Future Classic Wall" by Richard Hammond. Among a few others (VW Corrado VR6, Merc 190E 2.5 Cossie etc.) was the Citroen XM. We didn't get to hear his reasons why he thought the XM should be on the Classic (rather than "Crock"!) side of the board (although he did put it quite close to the line!) as Clarkson tried to interrupt him, so here are my suggestions... 1. Exclusivity - the XM didn't sell in vast numbers in the UK. 2. Style - not to everyone's taste but it is unusual and by respected design house Bertone. 3. Luxury - ride quality and interior ambience (making allowance for the broken bits, of course) is second to none, exec spec models having loads of leather, wood and gizmos too. 4. Practicality - acres of space and a humungous boot. Anyone got anything else they'd like to add? CAS Message i.d.:<news:bpsqse$1r5k43$1@ID-193985.news.uni-berlin.de>, by author CAS aka <calumscottTAKETHISBITOUT@yahoo.com> inspired me, > I'm presuming that all the UK contributors were watching Top Gear > last night where you would have seen the creation of the "Future [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > We didn't get to hear his reasons why he thought the XM should be on > the Classic (rather than "Crock"!) side of the board (although he did > put it quite close to the line!) as Clarkson tried to interrupt him, > so here are my suggestions... > > 1. Exclusivity - the XM didn't sell in vast numbers in the UK. Didn't sell anywhere in vast numbers so that is a point. > 2. Style - not to everyone's taste but it is unusual and by respected > design house Bertone. Great design. Thing you have seen since on many other cars but together only on one. The XM. > 3. Luxury - ride quality and interior ambience (making allowance for > the broken bits, of course) is second to none, exec spec models > having loads of leather, wood and gizmos too. In those days they were verry luxurious. For current standards they could do better. What I do like is the special sunscreen. It is surprising. > 4. Practicality - acres of space and a humungous boot. Huge, realy huge. But it does not drive like that. Thanks to power steering, braking and a tight turning circle it handles like a small town car. > Anyone got anything else they'd like to add? I think you summed it up well.  SignatureJohan; Certifiable me; Reply to Hotm ail > I'm presuming that all the UK contributors were watching Top Gear last night > where you would have seen the creation of the "Future Classic Wall" by [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Anyone got anything else they'd like to add? Don't laugh but - they're actually quite reliable. We have two and I'm about to buy another one (to replace the old 2.0i Turbo) and they've been excellent workhourse cars for us. The 2.0i turbo has done over 200000 miles and is still running quite sweetly (anyone want to buy it?). They also don't rust very much so still look reasonably good after many years of (mis)use on salty British roads. SignatureChris Green (cgreen@x-1.net) > > I'm presuming that all the UK contributors were watching Top Gear last night > > where you would have seen the creation of the "Future Classic Wall" by [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > They also don't rust very much so still look reasonably good after > many years of (mis)use on salty British roads. Reliability IS unfortunately an issue on XMs. The thing with them is that when things break, they are either trivial in the extreme or terminal! Rust isn't an issue as anything that isn't plastic is galvanised! I've got two Series I V6 12V at the mo and one is dead and the other is on the verge of alternator failure... ...there are many, many things that can and do go wrong but they are all well known problems and there is a fantastic support network via the XM-L mailing list. Would I buy anything else? I'll wait and see what the C6 is like...!! CAS > Reliability IS unfortunately an issue on XMs. The thing with them is that > when things break, they are either trivial in the extreme or terminal! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I've got two Series I V6 12V at the mo and one is dead and the other is on > the verge of alternator failure... All of the series 1 V6 were recalled, because the engines were crap. From what I can tell the series 1 XM was unreliable and the series 2 is very reliable.... Now, my Xantia Activa on the other hand....... >> Reliability IS unfortunately an issue on XMs. The thing with them is >> that when things break, they are either trivial in the extreme or >> terminal! > All of the series 1 V6 were recalled, because the engines were crap. No, that was the first 24v. Very few were built/sold anyway. The 12v's fine. > From what I can tell the series 1 XM was unreliable and the series 2 is > very reliable.... Early s1 suffered from crappy earths (which are utterly solvable), but apart from that, there's nothing major different in build quality. > > Reliability IS unfortunately an issue on XMs. The thing with them is that > > when things break, they are either trivial in the extreme or terminal! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > what I can tell the series 1 XM was unreliable and the series 2 is very > reliable.... That's sort of true, the Series II fixed a lot of the niggling electrical problems of the Series I. Our 200000 mile one is a Series I though. SignatureChris Green (cgreen@x-1.net) >That's sort of true, the Series II fixed a lot of the niggling >electrical problems of the Series I. What's the easiest way to tell a I from a II ? I'm rather tempted by this V6 estate http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18174&item=2444568820 although it seems a little pricey, IMHO. (And I bought a V*lv* 740 estate at the w/e !) Message i.d.:<news:j145svk1uvco98ceusutc3pk6l0d9l1tql@4ax.com>, by author Andy Dingley aka <dingbat@codesmiths.com> inspired me, >> That's sort of true, the Series II fixed a lot of the niggling >> electrical problems of the Series I. > > What's the easiest way to tell a I from a II ? Rear wing. Mark I has a real one, Mark II a minor spoiler. > I'm rather tempted by this V6 estate http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18174&item=2444568820 > although it seems a little pricey, IMHO. That's a mark I, see the spoiler ;-) SignatureJohan; Certifiable me; Reply to Hotm ail > Message i.d.:<news:j145svk1uvco98ceusutc3pk6l0d9l1tql@4ax.com>, > by author Andy Dingley aka <dingbat@codesmiths.com> inspired me, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Rear wing. Mark I has a real one, Mark II a minor spoiler. I think Mark I has a single spoke steering wheel and Mark II a two spoke wheel? Thats another good way to tell, also Mark II has the 2 chevrons in the middle of the front grill while Mark I has them on the right hand side of the front grill and they are much smaller. Oh, and that car says first registered 1991, thats a bit of a giveaway too, Mark II was introduced in 1993 or '92? Hello! Series II started about March 1993 Series 'I 1/2' had a two spoke steering wheel. My early 2.0 Turbo CT, from September 1992, had that one. I replaced it with the 'proper' (single spoke) steering wheel, as I could not see the switches with the other one. Regards, JOSE > I think Mark I has a single spoke steering wheel and Mark II a two spoke > wheel? Thats another good way to tell, also Mark II has the 2 chevrons in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Oh, and that car says first registered 1991, thats a bit of a giveaway > too, Mark II was introduced in 1993 or '92? Signature---------------------------------------------------------------- JOSE V. GAVILA La Canyada - Valencia (Spain) Citroen XM 2.0 CT Turbo (1992) http://jvgavila.com/xm.htm Opel Astra 1.6 16V (1995) Citroen ZX 1.9D (1997) Yamaha FJ1200 (1992) http://jvgavila.com/fj1200.htm Honda Foresight 250 (1997) > > Message i.d.:<news:j145svk1uvco98ceusutc3pk6l0d9l1tql@4ax.com>, > > by author Andy Dingley aka <dingbat@codesmiths.com> inspired me, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the middle of the front grill while Mark I has them on the right hand side > of the front grill and they are much smaller. No, I have a series I with a two spoke steering wheel. In reality the change from Series I to Series II was quite gradual, usually though the off centre chevrons on the front mean series I with the Series II having central chevron. The Series II also has a sort of 'italic' XM logo on the back. > Oh, and that car says first registered 1991, thats a bit of a giveaway > too, Mark II was introduced in 1993 or '92? I'd say late 1993, my 1993 is a Series I. SignatureChris Green (cgreen@x-1.net) Message i.d.:<news:bpv5eg$1t99sk$2@ID-61610.news.uni-berlin.de>, by author usenet@isbd.co.uk aka <usenet@isbd.co.uk> inspired me, >> I think Mark I has a single spoke steering wheel and Mark II a two >> spoke wheel? Thats another good way to tell, also Mark II has the 2 >> chevrons in the middle of the front grill while Mark I has them on >> the right hand side of the front grill and they are much smaller. >> > No, I have a series I with a two spoke steering wheel. Same here. That's a model between the I and II series. It has the electrical problems fixed and some other minor problems but it does not have the extra spfere. From the look of it, I like the I better than the II. Except for the steering wheel. Could be my opinion is biased by the great amount of mony I had to spend to get it into perfect ( ) driving order. SignatureJohan; Certifiable me; Reply to Hotm ail >>That's sort of true, the Series II fixed a lot of the niggling >>electrical problems of the Series I. > What's the easiest way to tell a I from a II ? The easiest visual is the front panel - s2 has the chevrons in the grille centrally, s1 has them on the flat top section of the grille, at one side. Inside, there's a very different dash - s2 is much more rounded, and the stereo is outside the storage "flap" - on an s1, the stereo can be hidden, and the dash is more angular, particularly the "hood" over the instrument panel. s1 has the lights on a rotary control on the column shroud, while s2 is a slide on the left hand stalk. > I'm rather tempted by this V6 estate > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18174&item=2444 > 568820 although it seems a little pricey, IMHO. A *little*? He's 'avin a larf. ?1500 for a '91 s1 v6 auto with 90k? Autoboxes have a rep for dying at 120k miles unless the fluid changes have been meticulous. OK, so it's an estate (one of the VERY first) - but it's *STARTING* at ?1500 with the reserve set higher. That's getting to 2.5TD money. Still, looks nice, and I do like those wobbly-web alloys. Oh, and a mention of a crease in the NSF wing, but no shot of the nearside. No mention of the OSR door being a clearly different shade of silver to the rest of the car. <pet ebay hate> Why Do Some People Insist On Typing Every Word With A Capital Letter? Likewise, why mention the hydraulics work? They *always* work. It's the one thing you can guarantee will work on an XM.... </pet ebay hate> This would be an interesting XM estate to salt away for the future if you fancied them as a future classic. >Autoboxes have a rep for dying at 120k miles unless the fluid changes have >been meticulous. Of the V6's out there, how many were manual, or (like Range Rovers and Volvos 850s) did nearly all the big engines get built as autos ? Having suffered a nice early XM spoiled by that nasty 4-pot Pug engine, I'm still attracted to a good V6, but I don't much like autos. Are auto XMs notably easier to drive ? I'm thinking of the usual problem of the handbrakeless hill start, never my favourite. >Oh, and a mention of a crease in the NSF wing, but no shot of the nearside. >No mention of the OSR door being a clearly different shade of silver to the >rest of the car. Don't buy distant cars from ads with lousy pictures ! Why do they do that ? >Why Do Some People Insist On Typing Every Word With A Capital Letter? Because They're Barking Mad. I'm also surprised how few people know what a paragraph is, or why they spend three pages of <FONT SIZE=+4> to tell me what postage to Albania will be, but never mention if it's a left or right-handed widget. ></pet ebay hate> > Likewise, why mention the hydraulics work? When I first bought my XM I lived in fear of hydraulic failures. Everything _else_ fell off, but never a squeak from the hydraulics. -- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods > >Autoboxes have a rep for dying at 120k miles unless the fluid changes have > >been meticulous. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Having suffered a nice early XM spoiled by that nasty 4-pot Pug > engine, I'm still attracted to a good V6, but I don't much like autos. The V6 XM suits the Autobox (which is actually very good apart from the 120k mile thing!) very well, being all "low-revs" and "bags of grunt". The box itself kicks down when you want it to and quickly enough (although I suspect it is dog-slow by comparison to modern ones) but does change up with a good 500revs spare with your foot to the boards (this is, of course, not recommended as the fuel gauge goes down about as quickly as the rev-counter goes up!). > Are auto XMs notably easier to drive ? I'm thinking of the usual > problem of the handbrakeless hill start, never my favourite. Couldn't tell you whether they are easier to drive or not - I've never had a manual one! But they are a wonderfully relaxing experience, plonk it in drive and just go... and go... and go... ...then get stuck in traffic and sneer at all the harassed looking people who have to constantly press the clutch, stick it in first, handbrake off, release clutch ,press the clutch, change to second, jump on clutch and brake at the same time when everything stops again put the handbrake on and start from the begining again!!! <snip> > > Likewise, why mention the hydraulics work? > > When I first bought my XM I lived in fear of hydraulic failures. > Everything _else_ fell off, but never a squeak from the hydraulics. True, I lived in fear of the hydraulics of my first BX, second BX, both XMs.... ..after several failures on each you kind of get used to it!!! CAS >>Autoboxes have a rep for dying at 120k miles unless the fluid changes >>have been meticulous. > > Of the V6's out there, how many were manual, or (like Range Rovers and > Volvos 850s) did nearly all the big engines get built as autos ? AFAIK, all the 12v v6 had the 4HP18 ZF. The early 24v (91/2ish) had a 5-spd, but the engines all died. The later 24v had a different auto, the very clever auto-adaptive, and is apparently Really Rather Gorgeous. > Having suffered a nice early XM spoiled by that nasty 4-pot Pug > engine, I'm still attracted to a good V6, but I don't much like autos. If you want a manual, go for a 2.5TD (never with auto). > Are auto XMs notably easier to drive ? I'm thinking of the usual > problem of the handbrakeless hill start, never my favourite. I've only briefly moved a manual XM out of the workshop, and my feet couldn't cope! Particularly taking the handbrake off - my usual auto practice is to put left foot on the pedal, press slightly, release handle, release pedal pressure with foot. Can't do that with a manual, unless you want to play musical pedals. Oh, and this manual wouldn't idle so needed a whiff of throttle to keep it going. Pull handle, BANG! pedal shoots back, and whole dash shudders. F*king thing. >>Oh, and a mention of a crease in the NSF wing, but no shot of the >>nearside. No mention of the OSR door being a clearly different shade of >>silver to the rest of the car. > Don't buy distant cars from ads with lousy pictures ! I nearly bought a Tatra 603 off eBay, from Hamburg. Luckily (I think) I was just pipped at the post. >I nearly bought a Tatra 603 off eBay, from Hamburg. Luckily (I think) I was >just pipped at the post. I nearly bought one in Cardiff ! - just too late though (it was the Rancid Aluminium film car) One day I shall have a Tatra 8-) Either a 603 or an 815 -- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods >>I nearly bought a Tatra 603 off eBay, from Hamburg. Luckily (I think) I >>was just pipped at the post. > One day I shall have a Tatra 8-) Either a 603 or an 815 Ooooooh, 815. Gloriously silly way to *SERIOUSLY* offend walkers in the countryside... Me wants. > > Reliability IS unfortunately an issue on XMs. The thing with them is that > > when things break, they are either trivial in the extreme or terminal! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Now, my Xantia Activa on the other hand....... Tell me about your Activa lizard!!! Dimitris http://users.otenet.gr/~activa > "lizard" <lizard@ukfsn.org> wrote in message >> Now, my Xantia Activa on the other hand....... >> > Tell me about your Activa lizard!!! Well, its dead. Although it is currently at Duxford Service Station near Cambridge being fixed. We bought it in July from a UK car dealer and about a week after getting it we had some serious problems with the suspension (dead front activa ram is the main problem) and it has taken a few letters with one hinting at legal action to get it taken somewhere to be fixed. I should hear today when I will get it back, I hope the stories of it taking 5 weeks to get an Activa ram are not true! > I should hear today when I will get it back, I hope the stories of it > taking 5 weeks to get an Activa ram are not true! Well! that was a turnup for the books, the front Activa ram isn't dead! and the steering wheel angle sensor wasn't broken like the previous "specialist" i took it to told me! The thing that was causing the problem (it was leaning down badly to the front left hand side) was, 9 dead spheres :) 2 front height correctors (these were replaced a couple of months ago, the system was hydraflushed and had new lhm at the same time) and today they found a problem with some kind of "thing that works a bit like scissors" arrangement in the activa system being seized up. The people fixing it reckon that the car had been left to stand for a while and they took the bit off cleaned it and lubricated it and apparently the car is fine :) They also suspected that someone in the past had tried to fix the car who didn't know what they were doing, this was apparent after one garage found the wrong type of sphere fitted on part of the system. The other broken bits were the alarm (new ultrasonic detectors) and a broken ABS sensor. From what I can tell so far Duxford Service Station really rock, although I have yet to collect the car so i will say for certain on saturday.... |
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