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Car Forum / Citroen Cars / December 2006electric car
is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? > is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? Not many, I'd expect. There was an electric Berlingo on eBay a year or so ago. Five years old, 50,000 miles, good nick, clean, unbattered. A diesel van like that would be worth a couple of grand. Nobody bid on this, starting at a few hundred quid. Why? Because it needed new batteries. They'd just come to the end of their working lives. So why not replace 'em? Because the Citroen parts price for a battery set for an Electric Berlingo is... Fifteen Thousand Pounds - yes, nearly twice a new diesel Berlingo. >> is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Berlingo is... Fifteen Thousand Pounds - yes, nearly twice a new > diesel Berlingo. But we're all supposed to be willing to throw away thousands of pounds to reduce our carbon footprint (generating our own electricity, throwing out our old cars/boilers/fridges etc...), even at the cost of vastly increasing our lead/steel/plastics footprint. The ultimate expression of this can be seen in Japanese scrapyards. They have very high maintenance costs for cars - parts, mechanics and so on, and have very strict emmissions rules - the result? Whole cars only a couple of years old are scrapped - too much CO(2) etc... I currently run a 17 year old car. It's well maintained, so performs the best it can for fuel consumption etc... It's still well behind a new Fiesta for emissions etc... but two Fiestas would have been dead and gone in that time. Do I get any credit for the energy and materials I've saved in the manufacture of two new cars or for the energy used to dispose of them (no to mention the toxic waste)? Nope.  SignatureRegards, Dave email: dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com My Homepage: http://homepages.tesco.net/david.ryman/ The F1 travel guide: http://www.zdp06.ukgateway.net/f1_travel.htm <snip> > I currently run a 17 year old car. It's well maintained, so performs the > best it can for fuel consumption etc... It's still well behind a new > Fiesta for emissions etc... but two Fiestas would have been dead and gone > in that time. Do I get any credit for the energy and materials I've saved > in the manufacture of two new cars or for the energy used to dispose of > them (no to mention the toxic waste)? Nope. Why wouldn't a 17 year old, well maintained, Fiesta not have survived? I think the basses of what you say above is very true but it applies to any car - with the possible exception of real 'gas guzzlers' such as the Mk1 XJ6, older Citroens and Merc's etc. > Why wouldn't a 17 year old, well maintained, Fiesta not have > survived? I think the basses of what you say above is very true but > it applies to any car - with the possible exception of real 'gas > guzzlers' such as the Mk1 XJ6, older Citroens and Merc's etc. I don't think that was the point that Dave was making - we are all supposed to be good consumers and scrap the old cars and all have new ones to the latest specs. The 17 year old Fiestas should not exist, they should be scrapped after say five years to make sure we _all_ have the newer 'greener' ones. Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk >> Why wouldn't a 17 year old, well maintained, Fiesta not have >> survived? I think the basses of what you say above is very true but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > they should be scrapped after say five years to make sure we _all_ > have the newer 'greener' ones. But you do usually need something a bit meatier than a fiesta to last the course. Let's face it, they didn't build 1.1 or even 1.4 litre engines in the eighties to go much further than 70-100k. You need a 2.0 engine at least to be sure of breezing through the 100k mile mark - There are exceptions, of course - we had a 20 year old 1.0 polo recently for driving practice, and it was well battered, but still going! If there is a reliable exception to needing a decent sized engine, it's usually VW. SignatureRegards, Dave email: dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com My Homepage: http://homepages.tesco.net/david.ryman/ The F1 travel guide: http://www.zdp06.ukgateway.net/f1_travel.htm > Why wouldn't a 17 year old, well maintained, Fiesta not have > survived? It'd be rotten. Far more so than a 17yo AX. Ford have been very slow in stopping their small cars rotting - it's only the current shape Fester that they seem to have got it right on, and the Ka is still bad. > > Why wouldn't a 17 year old, well maintained, Fiesta not have > > survived? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the current shape Fester that they seem to have got it right on, and the Ka > is still bad. Funny that, I've seen many rotten AX's too, perhaps you don't consider bodywork as being part of the vehicle when it comes to maintaining it well?... I was reading <news:458a7eb9$0$97277$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>, made by the entity known as Jerry, that requests spam to be sent to <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> and I became inspired, >>> Why wouldn't a 17 year old, well maintained, Fiesta not have >>> survived? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > consider bodywork as being part of the vehicle when it comes to > maintaining it well?... You see rotten AX -es since they are there, they survived. The Fiesta didn't. Signatured:J0han; Certifiable me http://2rowdy.aacity.net Changing life, Breaking ground > I was reading > <news:458a7eb9$0$97277$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>, made [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > You see rotten AX -es since they are there, they survived. The Fiesta > didn't. I see many rotten Fiestas too. Badly maintained car bodywork is a rotten steel box on wheels, what ever it is.... I was reading <news:458ac0b4$0$97215$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>, made by the entity known as Jerry, that requests spam to be sent to <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> and I became inspired, >> I was reading >> <news:458a7eb9$0$97277$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I see many rotten Fiestas too. Badly maintained car bodywork is a > rotten steel box on wheels, what ever it is.... True. But be honest, you see more rotten AX-es then Fiestas :-) Signatured:J0han; Certifiable me http://www.aacity.net Citroen Newsgroup Click -[ HERE ]- to continue..... > Funny that, I've seen many rotten AX's too, perhaps you don't > consider bodywork as being part of the vehicle when it comes to > maintaining it well?... No, you see battered AXs. Not rotten ones. Of the many things they die of, rot ain't one. > > Funny that, I've seen many rotten AX's too, perhaps you don't > > consider bodywork as being part of the vehicle when it comes to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Of the many things they die of, rot ain't one. Sorry, forgot that one of the groups I was posting to is the Citroen 'anoraks' group.... "Jerry" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in news:458a5768$0$97250$892e7fe2 @authen.yellow.readfreenews.net: > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it applies to any car - with the possible exception of real 'gas > guzzlers' such as the Mk1 XJ6, older Citroens and Merc's etc. Have you seen a 17 year old fiesta? There's not many of them left, and most are on their last legs. SignatureRegards, Dave email: dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com My Homepage: http://homepages.tesco.net/david.ryman/ The F1 travel guide: http://www.zdp06.ukgateway.net/f1_travel.htm > "Jerry" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in news:458a5768$0$97250$892e7fe2 > @authen.yellow.readfreenews.net: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Have you seen a 17 year old fiesta? There's not many of them left, and > most are on their last legs. got one that sits in the car park and is used every day also in very good nick.. >>> is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? >> Not many, I'd expect. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > in the manufacture of two new cars or for the energy used to dispose of > them (no to mention the toxic waste)? Nope. Your 17 year old is but a youngster :-) How many Fiesta's would have been made to replace my 1970 Land Rover, I wonder? Plus, considering the Landie was hand crafted rather than mass produced it's carbon footprint was very low indeed when manufactured. The old girl is far more eco-friendly than your modern euro-box. SignatureRegards Steve G >>>> is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? >>> Not many, I'd expect. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > was very low indeed when manufactured. The old girl is far more > eco-friendly than your modern euro-box. well said.sod these eletric car ok for london to run in and out maybe woman should have them for school runs? <snip> > sod these eletric car ok for london to run in and out maybe > woman should have them for school runs? But not until we have carbon a neutral (or at least friendly) electricity generation network and 'clean' batteries, until then all that is happening is that people are moving the pollution location. Fine if you want to reduce smog but it does nothing to the over all pollution levels - well not much anyway. > <snip> >> sod these eletric car ok for london to run in and out maybe [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Fine if you want to reduce smog but it does nothing to the over all > pollution levels - well not much anyway. Couldn't agree more. Just goes to show that the UK Government's arguments are completely bogus and simply a ruse for hiking taxes for the motorist ... again! SignatureRegards Steve G "Jerry" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in news:458aa800$0$97229$892e7fe2 @authen.yellow.readfreenews.net: > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Fine if you want to reduce smog but it does nothing to the over all > pollution levels - well not much anyway. Come on, surely lead and acid seaping into the water table is good for us! ;-) SignatureRegards, Dave email: dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com My Homepage: http://homepages.tesco.net/david.ryman/ The F1 travel guide: http://www.zdp06.ukgateway.net/f1_travel.htm >>> sod these eletric car ok for london to run in and out maybe >>> woman should have them for school runs? >> But not until we have carbon a neutral (or at least friendly) >> electricity generation network and 'clean' batteries, until then all >> that is happening is that people are moving the pollution location. >> Fine if you want to reduce smog but it does nothing to the over all >> pollution levels - well not much anyway. > Come on, surely lead and acid seaping into the water table is good for > us! ;-) If only they WERE lead acid batteries... The chemistry in electric and hybrid car batteries is FAR more environmentally horrible than that. http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html? in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770 (Yes, it's the Wail on Sunday, I know...) > in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770 Oh boy oh boy. SignatureRegards, Dave email: dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com My Homepage: http://homepages.tesco.net/david.ryman/ The F1 travel guide: http://www.zdp06.ukgateway.net/f1_travel.htm >>>> is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? >>> Not many, I'd expect. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > footprint was very low indeed when manufactured. The old girl is far > more eco-friendly than your modern euro-box. hear hear. SignatureRegards, Dave email: dave_ryman@hotmailNOSPAM.com My Homepage: http://homepages.tesco.net/david.ryman/ The F1 travel guide: http://www.zdp06.ukgateway.net/f1_travel.htm > is there still some electric saxo's or 106's out there? Go to La Rochelle in France, there was a speciall set up there and lots (comparatively) of PSA electric vehicles were there. Try a Google search for "electric cars uk" for lots of information on what is now happening. By the way, just because Citroen want £15k (allegedly) for a new set of batteries, doesn't mean that is what one would have to pay. Do you ALWAYS buy ALL of your consumables from the authorised franchised dealer? > By the way, just because Citroen want £15k (allegedly) Would you like the part numbers? > for a new set of batteries, doesn't mean that is what one would have to > pay. Do you ALWAYS buy ALL of your consumables from the authorised > franchised dealer? You wouldn't get 'em anywhere else. It's not a handful of Duracells, y'know. <snip> > By the way, just because Citroen want £15k (allegedly) for a new set of > batteries, doesn't mean that is what one would have to pay. Do you ALWAYS > buy ALL of your consumables from the authorised franchised dealer? Depends on how Bespoke the batteries are, if PSA used off the shelf batteries then yes you might well be able to source them elsewhere but if they were specially made for PSA there might boot be any option other than to source them from PSA. > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > but if they were specially made for PSA there might boot be any > option other than to source them from PSA. I can get lots of bespoke PSA parts for far less than the UK franchised dealers ask. PSA certainly will not be manufacuring the batteries themselves. > > <snip> > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > dealers ask. PSA certainly will not be manufacuring the batteries > themselves. But nor will the actual manufactures be making them to sit on the self, we're not talking about some common but bespoke PSA parts here... > > > Depends on how Bespoke the batteries are, if PSA used off the > shelf [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > self, we're not talking about some common but bespoke PSA parts > here... Accepted, they will not be that easy to find, but there are now quite a few traction battery manufacturers out there. And you can be sure that PSA are making at least 100% mark up on their price, probably far more if you could check back to the original supplier's price. Many of these large companies have a way of selling the part from company to company within their empire in order to increase the final price, but this does hide the vast mark up. > > > > Depends on how Bespoke the batteries are, if PSA used off the > > shelf [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Accepted, they will not be that easy to find, but there are now quite a few > traction battery manufacturers out there. Indeed but will they have access to the design that PSA used, again we are not talking about off the self designs. > And you can be sure that PSA are making at least 100% mark up on their > price, probably far more if you could check back to the original supplier's > price. > Many of these large companies have a way of selling the part from company to > company within their empire in order to increase the final price, but this > does hide the vast mark up. Indeed, if you can find the original manufacture then you may well be able to save money, but that does depend on the willingness of the company to sell direct or them even being able to - if PSA hold the patents etc.
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