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Car Forum / Citroen Cars / January 2007C3 Problems
I purchased a c3 desire back in November 2005 and have had nothing but problems to include :- Cutting out when turning right Unable to obtain first gear Suction marks on the front and back windscreens which were eventually replaced. Various product recalls High pressure leak on the engine Engine mount failed and the engine dropped out while driving Rattle from engine bay which turned out to be the air con pipe which had come away from its holder Gear linkage has been replaced. Creaking from the passenger side of the car Faulty suspension mount on the passenger side. Has anyone else experienced any of the above problems or where a dealership is not prepared to fix your car? Each time the car goes back which has been at least 12 times since I have owned it they wont give me a hire car due to being 20, nor compensate me for finding alternative car hire. I have contacted Citroen Head office in Slough and found them to be very unprofessional and incompetent. Each time just telling me to refer it back to the dealership for repair. Any suggestions on how to get this resolved? Many Thanks > Any suggestions on how to get this resolved? Have you tried a different dealer? Yes, i brought the car in Stroud, now trying to get some where with one in bristol but there just as bad .... > > Any suggestions on how to get this resolved? > > Have you tried a different dealer? > Yes, i brought the car in Stroud, now trying to get some where with one in > bristol but there just as bad .... >> >>> Any suggestions on how to get this resolved? >> >> Have you tried a different dealer? modern citroens are getting a terrible name in the trade, much worse than the old ones ever managed. the only decent citroens to be had are the old ones which have survived the massive depreciation and the subsequent death in the breakers. modern citroens are following that pattern with a vengence. you'd have to be a bit mad to buy a 1, 2 or 3 year old citroen and insane or on expenses to buy the C6 wait until the dross has been cleeared out of the system. oops, too late. > than the old ones ever managed. the only decent citroens to be had > are the old ones which have survived the massive depreciation and > the subsequent death in the breakers. modern citroens are following > that pattern with a vengence. They can't be as bad -two years ago the Picasso was top in class in customer satisfaction in Germany. > you'd have to be a bit mad to buy a 1, 2 or 3 year old citroen and > insane or on expenses to buy the C6 I tried to explain that bit about the C6 to a dealer... the concept of a 50000EUR Citroën just won't work, especially not if it's as boring as a C6. If you want to buy Avantgarde in that Class, buy a Lexus Hybrid. If you'd like an extravagant alternative with latin flair, go for a Lancia. If you'd like to have that Citroën feeling, buy a restaurated CX or DS, and a daily driver. I wanted to get along the lines of 'demo car, a year old, 35000, three year's maintenance and warranty, and a guaranteed take-back value of 15000'. They were happy to sell me a one year car for 35000, would even offer the maintenance but wouldn't accept the 15000 take back. Picture that - a then four year old top of the line used car for less than a third of list price in today's money. And they couldn't accept that. So far for confidence in one's products :( cu .\\arc > I tried to explain that bit about the C6 to a dealer... the concept of > a 50000EUR Citroën just won't work, Unfortunately, I think you're right there, but... > especially not if it's as boring as a C6. I've not driven a C6 - but those I know who have wouldn't agree. > If you want to buy Avantgarde in that Class, buy a Lexus Hybrid. Oh, PLEASE! Hybrid is an utter con, greenwash. And a Lexus? "Avantgarde"? On what planet? > If you'd like an extravagant alternative with latin flair, go for a > Lancia. Not in the UK. New Lancias haven't been sold here for many years. You can't get a Vel Satis here, either, any more. > I wanted to get along the lines of 'demo car, a year old, 35000, three > year's maintenance and warranty, and a guaranteed take-back value of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > than a third of list price in today's money. And they couldn't accept > that. So far for confidence in one's products :( That's not far off the going rate for many new £30-40k cars in the UK - even assuming good condition and not excessive mileage. Hell, when I bought my XM the dealer had one in stock. Already registered, and they wanted £17k against £22k list. The minimum guaranteed future value on a three year deal was £2500. (and, yes, I did ask if I could instead have the four-year old one outside, with £8k in the windscreen, for £2500...) > You > can't get a Vel Satis here, either, any more. I want a Vel Satis with C6 suspension and S class running gear with an interior by Connely & Gaudy, painted by bosch. H Bosch. >> especially not if it's as boring as a C6. > > I've not driven a C6 - but those I know who have wouldn't agree. Oh, yes, it drives good - but not special. Test drive a DS against 70's cars, or a CX against 80's cars. They're in a league of their own in certain respects, and utterly inadequate in others. The C6 is doing fine. Not more. Not enough for the enthusiasts, not enough for those that aren't attached to the company. >> If you want to buy Avantgarde in that Class, buy a Lexus Hybrid. > > Oh, PLEASE! Hybrid is an utter con, greenwash. > And a Lexus? "Avantgarde"? On what planet? YES! Controversy! Some would never buy one, some would never buy something else. Not for brand awareness, or for good marketing, or the desire to have something unconventional. But because there's a real difference, and you can have an opinion about. I drive a hybrid as well as a DS. Both times there's been a bunch of engineers building the best car they could, reinventing the idea of how a car works in certain areas where they found the then current solutions inadequate, ignoring conventions. Marvellous. >> If you'd like an extravagant alternative with latin flair, go for a >> Lancia. > > Not in the UK. New Lancias haven't been sold here for many years. You > can't get a Vel Satis here, either, any more. Ugh. That's a sad thing, then. They are being sold in homeopathic doses here (Luxembourg), but very remarkable on the street. >> Picture that - a then four year old top of the line used car for less >> than a third of list price in today's money. And they couldn't accept >> that. So far for confidence in one's products :( > > That's not far off the going rate for many new £30-40k cars in the UK - > even assuming good condition and not excessive mileage. Well, benchmark in that class are the germans, they bring 50%+ of their new value. Not that I'd ever buy an E-Class for a thousand other reasons... > Hell, when I bought my XM the dealer had one in stock. Already > registered, and they wanted £17k against £22k list. The minimum > guaranteed future value on a three year deal was £2500. (and, yes, I did > ask if I could instead have the four-year old one outside, with £8k in > the windscreen, for £2500...) And what exactly was their justification? cu .\\arc >>> If you want to buy Avantgarde in that Class, buy a Lexus Hybrid. >> Oh, PLEASE! Hybrid is an utter con, greenwash. >> And a Lexus? "Avantgarde"? On what planet? > YES! Controversy! Some would never buy one, some would never buy > something else. Not for brand awareness, or for good marketing, or the > desire to have something unconventional. But because there's a real > difference, and you can have an opinion about. A hybrid what? A Toyota Pious? Hybrids can ONLY give a benefit in terms of localised zero-emissions - and the Pious in zero-emissions mode is slower than a 2cv. Only a two mile battery range, too... >> Hell, when I bought my XM the dealer had one in stock. Already >> registered, and they wanted £17k against £22k list. The minimum >> guaranteed future value on a three year deal was £2500. (and, yes, I >> did ask if I could instead have the four-year old one outside, with >> £8k in the windscreen, for £2500...) > And what exactly was their justification? Realism? > A hybrid what? A Toyota Pious? I won't even honor that ;-) > Hybrids can ONLY give a benefit in terms of localised zero-emissions - and > the Pious in zero-emissions mode is slower than a 2cv. Only a two mile > battery range, too... It's not an electric car, it's a hybrid. It doesn't aspire to outperform a 2CV on batteries only. Let me tell you, in 'normal mode' it outperforms a lot of cars. Nothing's better at delivering torque than a big badass electric traction motor. They had to give it quite restrictive antislip, else it would've curled up the bitumen on the road ;-) It consumes 5l/100km and generates 104 g of CO2 per km. I think that's important. And, important as well, it does that by employing hugely innovative technology. Looking at the Prius' setup of a planetary gear set, an engine and two electric motors triggers exactly the same bits in me than looking at the DS' hydropneumatic suspension, gear box and brakes. It's the kind of thing that, once you understand its functioning, it blows off your head. >>> Hell, when I bought my XM the dealer had one in stock. Already >>> registered, and they wanted £17k against £22k list. The minimum [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Realism? And you still bought it? Congratulations! :-) cu .\\arc >> A hybrid what? A Toyota Pious? > I won't even honor that ;-) If the hair shirt fits... >> Hybrids can ONLY give a benefit in terms of localised zero-emissions >> - and the Pious in zero-emissions mode is slower than a 2cv. Only a >> two mile battery range, too... > It's not an electric car, it's a hybrid. It doesn't aspire to > outperform a 2CV on batteries only. True. But the performance is SO poor in ZEV mode that you really can't help kicking the petrol motor in. > Let me tell you, in 'normal mode' it outperforms a lot of cars. The one I test drove certainly didn't. > It consumes 5l/100km and generates 104 g of CO2 per km. Only because the fuel economy and CO2 tests favour the hybrid model by starting the test with full batteries and finishing with much flatter ones - which, in real life, don't work. What are you *really* getting in real life use? Many reports in the UK say about 2/3 of the claimed economy. Not to mention the rather unpleasant battery chemistry... Besides, that's thirstier than many diesel "non-hybrid Cits". >>>> Hell, when I bought my XM the dealer had one in stock. Already >>>> registered, and they wanted £17k against £22k list. The minimum >>>> guaranteed future value on a three year deal was £2500. (and, yes, >>>> I did ask if I could instead have the four-year old one outside, >>>> with £8k in the windscreen, for £2500...) >>> And what exactly was their justification? >> Realism? > And you still bought it? No, I bought a 4yo one elsewhere for £4.5k... and still have it six and a half years later... >>> A hybrid what? A Toyota Pious? > >> I won't even honor that ;-) > > If the hair shirt fits... Had to google that. >>> Hybrids can ONLY give a benefit in terms of localised zero-emissions >>> - and the Pious in zero-emissions mode is slower than a 2cv. Only a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > True. But the performance is SO poor in ZEV mode that you really can't > help kicking the petrol motor in. What bit exactly of 'it's not an electric car' is unclear to you? The only usage for the electric mode is 'honey, could you get the car out of the garage and bring it to the front door'. >> Let me tell you, in 'normal mode' it outperforms a lot of cars. > > The one I test drove certainly didn't. Then you didn't kick it as required. Cars with a variable transmission appear sluggish because the engine note doesn't change during acceleration. >> It consumes 5l/100km and generates 104 g of CO2 per km. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > real life use? Many reports in the UK say about 2/3 of the claimed > economy. I'm getting a honest 5 in summer, around 5.5 in winter (driving short distances mostly, the combustion engine not switching of because heating is required). I don't buy the bit with tests favoring it - those tests were in usage before hybrids existed. The standard test runs for around 20 minutes. A fully charged battery, with very careful driving to aim for maximum discharge may buy you an advantage in the first five minutes of a test. But even then... You are aware that you can't plug one in, so it's not trivial to fully charge the battery in conditions different than driving downhill for a long distance. > Not to mention the rather unpleasant battery chemistry... Which causes scrap dealers to buy them at a premium, because they recycle so well. Old wife's tale, really... > Besides, that's thirstier than many diesel "non-hybrid Cits". Quite wrong, if you compare within the same class of car. And if the diesel may end up cheaper in consumption, it'll have a very tough time beating the hybrid on emissions. >> And you still bought it? > > No, I bought a 4yo one elsewhere for £4.5k... and still have it six and > a half years later... Good move :-) I'm still sad my father sold his 3.0 Diravi XM. Sure, it had fixed monthly maintenance session to repair it. But when it drove, it was stellar. cu .\\arc >> True. But the performance is SO poor in ZEV mode that you really >> can't help kicking the petrol motor in. > What bit exactly of 'it's not an electric car' is unclear to you? The > only usage for the electric mode is 'honey, could you get the car out > of the garage and bring it to the front door'. So the only real benefit - local zero-emission mode - is useless... >>> Let me tell you, in 'normal mode' it outperforms a lot of cars. >> The one I test drove certainly didn't. > Then you didn't kick it as required. I was bending the floor. > Cars with a variable transmission appear sluggish because the engine > note doesn't change during acceleration. True. It made a lot of noise, and not much else. It just went straight to peak revs, and slowly gathered speed. Oh, and on my test drive - about 20 miles - it managed about 35mpg according to the computer... >> Besides, that's thirstier than many diesel "non-hybrid Cits". > Quite wrong, if you compare within the same class of car. And if the > diesel may end up cheaper in consumption, it'll have a very tough time > beating the hybrid on emissions. C4 1.6HDi - 60.1mpg (4.7l/100km) combined, 125g/km C3 1.4HDi - 64.2mpg (4.4l/100km), 114g/km Pious - 65.7mpg (4.3l/100km), 104g/km Not so far off... ...and there's a diesel/hybrid B'lingo coming very soon. >> What bit exactly of 'it's not an electric car' is unclear to you? The >> only usage for the electric mode is 'honey, could you get the car out >> of the garage and bring it to the front door'. > > So the only real benefit - local zero-emission mode - is useless... Did I mention it's not an electric car? And I would consider lower fuel consumption a real benefit. But then, that's just me. >>>> Let me tell you, in 'normal mode' it outperforms a lot of cars. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I was bending the floor. Now there you are - these things come with an accelerator pedal. Kicking the floor is not supposed to accelerate it ;-) >> Cars with a variable transmission appear sluggish because the engine >> note doesn't change during acceleration. > > True. It made a lot of noise, and not much else. It just went straight > to peak revs, and slowly gathered speed. Depending on your definition of 'slowly'. My wife has a 2.0 HDI (307), that feels a lot quicker. On paper it's at exactly the same acceleration than the Prius. In reality it doesn't stand a chance because my wife doesn't dare to jump the clutch at 4000 and torture the gearbox on every gear change. > Oh, and on my test drive - about 20 miles - it managed about 35mpg > according to the computer... Sorry - I never grasped the concept of mpg's. Whenever I thought I had conversion factors, somebody told me it was the wrong miles or the wrong gallons. >>> Besides, that's thirstier than many diesel "non-hybrid Cits". > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Pious - 65.7mpg (4.3l/100km), 104g/km > Not so far off... Depends on the point of view. It beats the C4 by about 20% in CO2 and by about 10% in consumption. Not even mentioning the higher energy content of Diesel fuel compared to gas. Oh, and it out accelerates the C4 by a second and a half to 100 km/h. > ...and there's a diesel/hybrid B'lingo coming very soon. I am waiting on that. Seriously. I like Citroëns a lot and would enjoy buying one with 21st century technology. cu .\\arc |
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