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Car Forum / Citroen Cars / June 2004Citroen AX DTC
Hello to everyone I have bought a second hand Citroen AX 1.4,model year 1992 with engine code KDY and with Bosch A2.2 monopoint injection system. The ECU has one diagnostic socket with 2 pins and i wonder if there is a way to scan this unit for Diagnostic Trouble Codes in order to be able to fix any engine performance problem. I am a DIY mechanics and i would like not to get involved with the authorized dealer as they charged too much for theirs repairs and parts. Thanks in advance Aggel > Hello to everyone > I have bought a second hand Citroen AX 1.4,model year 1992 with engine [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks in advance > Aggel There are electrical diagram for making a small tool, to connect to this socket. You only need some small part like a diode, Leds, pins, all cheap stuff. This diagram can be found on the internet and in the Haynes manual. I don't know if there is a Haynes manual for the AX1.4, but the procedure that is described in the Haynes ZX manual for the 1.4 engine with KDY should also work for your AX, since it is the same engine. Be carefull with this engine, they have problems with the head-gasket. My ZX1.4 from 1992 had a leaking head-gasket. Check for oil (brown mud color) in the coolant. If you stand in front of the engine, on the lower left side of the engine there is a oil seal in the head-gasket, this is a weak point of the engine. The engine may start leaking oil here. > > Hello to everyone > > I have bought a second hand Citroen AX 1.4,model year 1992 with engine [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > socket. You only need some small part like a diode, Leds, pins, all cheap > stuff. This diagram can be found on the internet and in the Haynes manual. I have already search the internet and i could not find the specific diagram. I have found scheme that are reffering for OBD I(with 2 pins diagnostics sockets) but i don't even know if this ECU is OBD I compliant as this model is an early one(year 1992) and in Europe the OBD standard had not been developed at that time. > I don't know if there is a Haynes manual for the AX1.4, but the procedure > that is described in the Haynes ZX manual for the 1.4 engine with KDY > should also work for your AX, since it is the same engine. I have already the Haneys manual for the AX1.4 but the only refer was that the particular socket is for diagnosis and nothing else. If you could just point me any internet location with those diagrams or if you could sent me any of this would be much appreciated. > Be carefull with this engine, they have problems with the head-gasket. > My ZX1.4 from 1992 had a leaking head-gasket. Check for oil (brown mud [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > there is a oil seal in the head-gasket, this is a weak point of the engine. > The engine may start leaking oil here You have been 100% right.I have already an oil leakage not in the coolant but in the left side of the engine and i thought it was from the head gasket.I take a look to see if this oil leakage come from the oil seal you mention. Thanks a lot for your corresponding and for the further advices..:) Regards Aggel > > > Hello to everyone > > > I have bought a second hand Citroen AX 1.4,model year 1992 with engine [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Regards > Aggel For reading out the codes, you need a switch and a piece of wire. On this site http://www.205gti.com/downloads/xu9j2_ecu.pdf you can find the procedure. It is for a Peugeot 205, but the procedure and the codes are the same. I have checked this with a Dutch service manual for the ZX with 1.4i engine, KDY with Bosch A2.2 monopoint injection system. One of the pins is the ground, the other one is the pin, you need. Instead of a Check Engine indicator, the AX has a little orange symbol that looks like an engine, in the lower right corner of the instrument panel. For a right hand drive car like in the UK, it could be on the left side. A little minus for the Haynes manual in this case, but all other things are much better in the Haynes book than in the Dutch manual. The oil-seal I mentioned is in the head gasket, you can't see it. But if you have oil-leakage on the left side, It can also be the cylinder head cover seal or the camshaft seal. But most likely it will be the head gasket. You better replace the head gasket ASAP, the gasket of my car was just about to break through to the cylinders next to it. If you lift the cylinder head, check the hoses from the heater matrix, a leak in this hose may cause the coolant to flow away from the head. This may lead to overheat the head and damage the head gasket or the cylinder head. Good luck. > > > > Hello to everyone > > > > I have bought a second hand Citroen AX 1.4,model year 1992 with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance > For reading out the codes, you need a switch and a piece of wire. > On this site http://www.205gti.com/downloads/xu9j2_ecu.pdf [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Good luck. Please correct if i have understood something wrong as this is a very essential procedure to be done. First of all a have to connect the 2 pins of the socket together(as one of them is the ground) with a piece of wire (jumper) in which there will be a switch located. Where the instuction says depress the switch it means to open or to close the circuit? My opinion is to open the circuit between the two pins. The strange thing is that the indicator light is always on when i turn on the ignition, and go off when i start the engine. So the indicator light will be on before i depress the swith, and i believe it will remain on independently of the switch position before start blinking during the procedure. The check engine indicator located in the right lower corner of the instument panel and it looks like the symbol of a transistor. Please tell if i have to use any special tools instead of the ordinary workshop tools in order to change the head gasket? and also what other parts(seals..etc) should i replace during the repair althought they might been not damaged. thanks a lot Aggel > > > > > Hello to everyone > > > > > I have bought a second hand Citroen AX 1.4,model year 1992 with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > > authorized dealer as they charged too much for theirs repairs and > > parts. > > For reading out the codes, you need a switch and a piece of wire. > > On this site http://www.205gti.com/downloads/xu9j2_ecu.pdf [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > panel. > > For a right hand drive car like in the UK, it could be on the left side. > Please correct if i have understood something wrong as this is a very > essential procedure to be done. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or to close the circuit? My opinion is to open the circuit between the > two pins. I have checked in the Dutch manual and found the following info. One of the pins might be a ground pin, (check it with a multi-meter) but you need the green wire, connect this one to a good ground, like a metal part of the car, don't connect it to the other pin. This other pin, is for a special Citroen testing module. Depress the switch means to close the circuit. > The strange thing is that the indicator light is always on when i turn > on the ignition, and go off when i start the engine. This is normal, if it doesn't go out, then there is a problem with the engine. > So the indicator light will be on before i depress the swith, and i > believe it will remain on independently of the switch position before > start blinking during the procedure. > The check engine indicator located in the right lower corner of the > instument panel and it looks like the symbol of a transistor. If you turn on the Key, the engine indicator (symbol of a transistor) will be on. Close the switch for 3 seconds and open it. The symbol will flash 1 time, that means a 10, after this the sybol will go out for 1,5 sec (pause) and flash 2 times. This is a 2, so that makes 12, that is the code for beginning the test sequence. The rest you can find in the Link I gave you. After code 11 (end of sequence), you can erease the memmorized codes. The manual I have tell me to close the switch for 20 seconds, instead of 10 seconds as mentioned on the website. > Please tell if i have to use any special tools instead of the ordinary > workshop tools in order to change the head gasket? and also what other > parts(seals..etc) should i replace during the repair althought they might > been not damaged. You will need a torque wrench to unscrew and tighten the cylinderhead bolts. This must be done in 2 stages, as described in the Haynes manual. For the second stage, to tighten/loose the bolts to the specified angle, you can make a disc (of paper or carton) with a angular scale on it, and attach this to the torque wrench. Or make the salesman in the toolshop happy and buy a expensive tool with a angular scale on it :-)) You will also need a M10 bolt, to lock the camshaft, and a M6 bolt to lock the crankshaft, by putting it into the timing hole of the flywheel. Don?t rotate the crankshaft when the head it removed, this may disturb the position of the wet liners. You will also need a new cylinderhead cover seal. It is advised to use new cylinder head bolts. They can be used again, but only one time, but you don?t know if these bolts have be loosen before. It is also higly advised to renew the timing belt and the tensioner pully of the timing belt. Re-using the is not advised, and it is better to renew it, because the whole thing is open if you have to replace the head gasket. The tool to tension the timing belt, can be made by yourself. Don?t buy the head gasket beforehand, take out the old one and take it to a dealer or car parts shop, to buy the same one. There are 2 type of gaskets, one that is standard and one that is sligthly thicker (+0,2mm ) for if the cylinder head surface is machined. For the rest, just follow the instructions in the Haynes service manual. Good luck. > > > For reading out the codes, you need a switch and a piece of wire. > > > On this site http://www.205gti.com/downloads/xu9j2_ecu.pdf [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > panel. > > > For a right hand drive car like in the UK, it could be on the left side. > I have checked in the Dutch manual and found the following info. > One of the pins might be a ground pin, (check it with a multi-meter) > but you need the green wire, connect this one to a good ground, like > a metal part of the car, don't connect it to the other pin. > This other pin, is for a special Citroen testing module. I have already found the ground pin.So i will connect the one side of the wire to the pin that it is not ground and the other to a good metal ground.Correct? > Depress the switch means to close the circuit. Thanks for made this clear > > So the indicator light will be on before i depress the swith, and i > > believe it will remain on independently of the switch position before [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The manual I have tell me to close the switch for 20 seconds, instead of > 10 seconds as mentioned on the website. Thanks a lot for the very detailed informations > > Please tell if i have to use any special tools instead of the ordinary > > workshop tools in order to change the head gasket? and also what other [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the torque wrench. Or make the salesman in the toolshop happy and buy > a expensive tool with a angular scale on it :-)) I don't think that i will be the one to make the toolshop salesman happy.In the contrary i have made him feel unhappy a lot of times. > You will also need a M10 bolt, to lock the camshaft, and a M6 bolt to lock > the crankshaft, by putting it into the timing hole of the flywheel. > Don4t rotate the crankshaft when the head it removed, this may disturb > the position of the wet liners. I have read this procedure in the manual but the strange thing is that there isn't any hole in the flywheel cell to lock the crankshaft. This hole should have been near the engine code stamp.But this stamp is missing too. There is also a cover cap in the flywheel shell in order to check the flywheel timing mark.But the problem is that instead of being placed in the upper position of the cell, is being in the front of it(90 degrees anticlockwise), close enough to the radiator fan.So you don't have an easily access to check. I haven't try to use a small mirror to check the marks, but i thing that this will vain as there not enough space in order light get in, so you cannot have the ability to check the marks.But even if you get over with this problem with a small torch, a thing that the observation angle between you and the marks isn't straight and can vary.So for me this method is also inaccurate. The last time i change the cam belt (and it was the first one) i made marks on the crankshaft gear in order not to lose the timing.But this is also not a secure method. Please advice me if you can think another method. > You will also need a new cylinderhead cover seal. It is advised to use new > cylinder head bolts. They can be used again, but only one time, but you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > because > the whole thing is open if you have to replace the head gasket. I have changed the belts and the tension pulley 1000 km ago.Should i renew them again? > The tool to tension the timing belt, can be made by yourself. I have already made it.I took a bolt and i shortened and trimmed the stem in order to get the appropriate square face. > Don4t buy the head gasket beforehand, take out the old one and take it to > a dealer or car parts shop, to buy the same one. There are 2 type of > gaskets, > one that is standard and one that is sligthly thicker (+0,2mm ) for if the > cylinder head surface is machined. Thanks for the advice > For the rest, just follow the instructions in the Haynes service manual. > > Good luck Thanks a lot for your precision invaluable advice I look forward to test the code scan procedure... >> You will also need a M10 bolt, to lock the camshaft, and a M6 bolt to lock >> the crankshaft, by putting it into the timing hole of the flywheel. >> Don?t rotate the crankshaft when the head it removed, this may disturb >> the position of the wet liners. > I have read this procedure in the manual but the strange thing is that > there isn't any hole in the flywheel cell to lock the crankshaft. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > also not a secure method. > Please advice me if you can think another method. The hole to lock the flywheel is where you described it: "in the front of it(90 degrees anticlockwise), close enough to the radiator fan. The engine compartiment of the AX is smaller than the one of a ZX, so it might be difficult to acces it. You should have to remove the TDC sensor, in this hole you can put a M10 bolt to lock the (flywheel) crankshaft. I am not sure if there is a TDC sensor in your engine, the Haynes manual doesn't describe it. However the dutch manual describes the sensor. btw, you need a M10 bolt to lock the crankshaft and a M6 bolt to lock the camshaft. I have mixed these two up in my previous email. Making marks on the crankshaft gear is also a good method, some cars don't have any hole to lock it, but have markings on the gears. But the markings don't lock the crankshaft to prevent it from accidently rotating, which can disturb the wet liners and the bottom seal, which may cause leakage. > >It is also higly advised to renew the timing belt and the tensioner pully of > >the timing belt. Re-using the is not advised, and it is better to renew it, > >because the whole thing is open if you have to replace the head gasket. >I have changed the belts and the tension pulley 1000 km ago.Should i renew >them again? You can re-use the pulley, but it is strongly advised to use a new belt. Re-tensioning the belt again isn't advised, it may damage from the inside, and break suddenly. A new belt is about 40 euro, for that amount of money, don't take any risk of getting serious engine damage. >>Thanks a lot for your precision invaluable advice You are welcome, Citroen drivers always help each other. I guess you now have a lot of time to work around your AX, now England is eliminated in the Euro2004 :-)) I am still following the Dutch team and French team. Good luck with your Citroen AX > The hole to lock the flywheel is where you described it: > "in the front of it(90 degrees anticlockwise), close enough to the radiator [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > a TDC sensor in your engine, the Haynes manual doesn't describe it. > However the dutch manual describes the sensor. You have absolute right for once again.There is a TDC sensor,which cable ended to a not coonnected pin.As the Hanyes manual describe this sensor in some engines has no use.One of them is mine i think.But i could not imagine that i could lock cranckshaft by removing this sensor.Thanks a lot for this advice. > btw, you need a M10 bolt to lock the crankshaft and a M6 bolt to > lock the camshaft. I have mixed these two up in my previous email. Based to Hanyes manual it's a M10 bolt to lock the camshaft and a M6 bolt to lock the camshaft.For the camshaft, the manual reference is correct as i have already locked it once, but i haven't try yet to lock the crankshaft so i am not sure if a M6 bolt would locked it. > Making marks on the crankshaft gear is also a good method, some > cars don't have any hole to lock it, but have markings on the gears. > But the markings don't lock the crankshaft to prevent it from accidently > rotating, which can disturb the wet liners and the bottom seal, which > may cause leakage. You have right again.. > > >It is also higly advised to renew the timing belt and the tensioner pully > of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You are welcome, Citroen drivers always help each other. > I guess you now have a lot of time to work around your AX, now After all this illuminated diiscussions ofcourse i have a lot work to do.. > England is eliminated in the Euro2004 :-)) > I am still following the Dutch team and French team. As you can understand i follow the Greek team but despite my nationatily i like more the Czech Republic team > Good luck with your Citroen AX Thanks you a lot Regards and i hope in the future to have and other so interestings discussions On Fri, 25 Jun 2004, VTR16V wrote: >> You should have to remove the TDC sensor, in this hole you can put a >> M10 bolt to lock the (flywheel) crankshaft. I am not sure if there is >> a TDC sensor in your engine, the Haynes manual doesn't describe it. >> However the dutch manual describes the sensor. > You have absolute right for once again.There is a TDC sensor,which cable > ended to a not coonnected pin.As the Hanyes manual describe this sensor in > some engines has no use.One of them is mine i think.But i could not > imagine that i could lock cranckshaft by removing this sensor.Thanks a lot for > this advice. Very strange that the TDC sensor is not connected. I suppose you have a 1.4i engine, with fuel injection, or do you have a carburettor. If you have a fuel injection engine, than do you have a catalytic converter? I am not sure, but I think that if you a catalytic converter, than the TDC sensor is required. Anyway it is a interesting question, I will ask this to some people on a Dutch Citroen forum. I will let you know the answer. >> England is eliminated in the Euro2004 :-)) >> I am still following the Dutch team and French team. > As you can understand i follow the Greek team but despite my nationatily i like more the Czech Republic team >> Good luck with your Citroen AX > Thanks you a lot Ok, so you are from Greece, I really was thinking that you are from England. In that case you must be very now Greece has passed on to the semi-final. To be honest, French team was my second favorit team, but they really played very poor this last match. Now I hope that the Dutch team will defeat Sweden today, so the Netherlands can also proceed to the semi-final. Regards > Very strange that the TDC sensor is not connected. I suppose you have a 1.4i > engine, with fuel injection, or do you have a carburettor. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > some > people on a Dutch Citroen forum. I will let you know the answer. The DTC sensor plug is located on HT coil base and can be found very easily, in the first sight when you open the bonnet and the access to it is very easily too.The plug contain three pins.The Hanyes manual writes the this sensor is not a part of the ignition system and is there to be used only for diagnostic purpose.But once again this book does't describe HOW? > Ok, so you are from Greece, I really was thinking that you are from England. > In that case you must be very now Greece has passed on to the semi-final. > To be honest, French team was my second favorit team, but they really played > very poor this last match. Now I hope that the Dutch team will defeat Sweden > today, so the Netherlands can also proceed to the semi-final. I am very glad that we passed the semi-final, but as honest football fun i don't enjoy the last match as our team purpose was basically not to let the French team to open the score and the other side was in a very bad day.The team that worth to be European champion is Chezh.Very nice team and play very good football. Regards Aggel
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