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Car Forum / Citroen Cars / June 2005CX Buying Advice
Hi everyone ... I'm looking for some advice for buying a Citroën CX. I currently own a classic SAAB 900 (of the classic years) and I'm looking to retire that car for weekend use, replacing it with a different daily runner. Having looked around, I'm not very inspired ... Apart from buying another classic SAAB 900, of course :) Aside from the DS, the CX seems to embody everything I'm looking for ... Pretty much another car that will never stop surprising me with how well thought out, designed and put together it is. The models, variants and trim levels are a bit of a minefield to be honest. What I'd like to know is pretty much which is the model to buy? Failing that, which second model should I buy, while I keep my eye open for that one? I'm after that luxurious looking padded leather interior, but that's about all I would put on the list as my requirements. I have an open mind. Should I choose an auto or a manual? Should I choose a petrol over a diesel? What are the power and performance specifications of each variant? Is there a sort of "top of the range" model? Are there any special editions I should look out for? What are the common areas of failure? Lots of questions ... Sorry ... Any advice/answers would be very much appreciated, preferably with links to online pictures. Kind regards, Paul Halliday > Hi everyone ... I'm looking for some advice for buying a Citroën CX. Good move... I still miss mine. > I currently own a classic SAAB 900 (of the classic years) Oooh, I likes them. Took one across the Sahara a couple of years ago. > Pretty much another car that will never stop surprising me with how > well thought out, designed and put together it is. Umm. Don't expect it to be anywhere *near* as well put together as a C900... > The models, variants and trim levels are a bit of a minefield to be > honest. What I'd like to know is pretty much which is the model to > buy? OK. Fairly straight forward. We'll look only at UK-market saloons. s2 (plastic bumpers, 86-on) :- CX20 (2.0 carb, 86 only) - bit gutless, low-spec. TBH, avoid. CX22 TRS (2.2 carb) - good compromise spec, economical (35mpg possible). Worth considering. CX 25DTR Turbo (2.5 turbo diesel, turbo2 with intercooler from 87) - Scarce. 40mpg. Superb, but not the most refined of diesels. CX 25GTi (2.5injection auto) - very nice, but thirsty. 25mpg at best. CX 25GTi Turbo (2.5turbo injection, turbo2 with intercooler from 87) - Fast. 30mpg or 140mph. Can be *stupidly* fast with upgrades... CX 25Prestige (LWB GTi Auto, 9" longer in the rear doors) CX 25Prestige Turbo (LWB turbo) - 5 RHD built... One for sale currently, though. Later s1 (stainless bumpers) similar range, but no 2.2, some non-turbo diesels. All CXs are getting scarce in good nick, but s1 were less well (?!) rust-protected. > I'm after that luxurious looking padded leather interior Most likely on a GTi Auto, Turbo or Prestige. Tan or black, some burgundy on LHD cars - dubious taste. Later GTi Auto and 22 "Croisette" special edition had very tasteful, very hard wearing "VIP" black/grey herringbone cloth. > Should I choose an auto or a manual? Auto means 25 GTi/Prestige auto only. Clutches can be very heavy, and don't really sit well with the rest of the "CX experience", IMHO - but buy shares in BP. > Should I choose a petrol over a diesel? Your call. > What are the power and performance specifications of each variant? 20 - 105bhp 22 - 115bhp 25ie auto - 138bhp but very low geared. 25 turbo - 168bhp TurboD - 120ish bhp, IIRC? > Is there a sort of "top of the range" model? Turbo or Prestige. Prestige Turbo is the holy grail. > Are there any special editions I should look out for? 22 Croisette is the only one the UK ever got. > What are the common areas of failure? Rot. The 25 pushrod engines are bulletproof - 300,000 miles is not uncommon. The 20/22 OHC are less so, but are much lighter. Look VERY VERY VERY carefully *all* over the body - particularly sunroof (open it and look all round the aperture), front floors, sills, bonnet and boot edges, door bottoms, door shell front edges, base of the A-pillar as it disappears behind the front wing. Rear suspension arm bearings go, causing the tyres to wear unevenly. The ride should be *superb* (especially after a C900...) - but if it isn't, new spheres aren't expensive. The hydraulics are utterly reliable with proper maintenance, but the pipes can rot. The foot brakes should feel capable of pulling a 747 down from landing velocity, but the handbrake is awful. Some cars have 390mm (15.5") TRX wheels - incl all Turbos - with *VERY* expensive tyres. £150-200 *each*. Others have 14". Some 15" 80s/90s/modern Alfa rims fit, and can look very very good. The first CX you drive will feel *very* odd, so try to drive a few before looking at a serious purchase. > Lots of questions ... Sorry ... Any advice/answers would be very much > appreciated, preferably with links to online pictures. Very seriously consider joining the CCC - www.citroencarclub.org.uk - also the CX email list - CX-L@yahoogroups.com >> I currently own a classic SAAB 900 > Oooh, I likes them. Took one across the Sahara a couple of years ago. Cool! You weren't one of the Desert Vikings or Lunar Trolls, were you? They were a couple of teams in a charity North African race >> Pretty much another car that will never stop surprising me with how >> well thought out, designed and put together it is. > Umm. Don't expect it to be anywhere *near* as well put together as a > C900... I've had three 8V variants now ... Bullet-proof and very well made :) <http://www.pjgh.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/saab/> Okay, I'll bear that in mind. I do keep a very open mind when looking at cars and, as near impossible as it is, try not to compare with other cars I've driven or owned. >> The models, variants and trim levels are a bit of a minefield to be >> honest. What I'd like to know is pretty much which is the model to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > We'll look only at UK-market saloons. > CX20 (2.0 carb, 86 only) - bit gutless, low-spec. TBH, avoid. > CX22 TRS (2.2 carb) - good compromise spec, economical (35mpg possible). [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > CX 25Prestige Turbo (LWB turbo) - 5 RHD built... One for sale currently, > though. I've spent a few hours poking about websites and pictures and must confess to thinking the 25 GTi Turbo (II?) is the one for me, although I did think I was going for that one simply because it's the fastest. It's the CX experience that I'm after, so yeah, the 22 carb sound interesting but are they daily driver CXs? The Prestige certainly sound like a right boat ... 9" longer in the rear doors? Heck, SAAB only managed about 10cm extra for their "long CD" model 900s. 9" is ... Well, 9" :) Does that constitute a "limousine" in the Citroën sense of the word? >> I'm after that luxurious looking padded leather interior > > Most likely on a GTi Auto, Turbo or Prestige. Tan or black, some burgundy > on LHD cars - dubious taste. Later GTi Auto and 22 "Croisette" special > edition had very tasteful, very hard wearing "VIP" black/grey herringbone > cloth. Like this: <http://www.geocities.com/citromalta/in02.jpg> Are these the cloth seats? <http://www.geocities.com/citromalta/in00.jpg> Right, okay, GTi Turbo or Prestige. The list is narrowing. I think I was erring towards the top end of the range anyway. That said, if there was a lower spec model that was definitely the one to get then I could always look to swap interiors at a later date. Once you actually own a car, it's amazing how all the ifs and buts make sense. Until you do, it's often very confusing. From the SAAB side of things, everyone always says, go for the fast Aero/SPG/T16S or better still, the kitted Carlsson model, but I've always owned the lower spec 8V models. Okay, my current one is an "Aero" look-alike, but genuine SAAB, at least :) >> Should I choose an auto or a manual? > Auto means 25 GTi/Prestige auto only. Clutches can be very heavy, and don't > really sit well with the rest of the "CX experience", IMHO - but buy shares > in BP. The "CX experience" ... That's it. That's what I'm after. Autos are not generally well thought of in the SAAB C900 arena either. Those that own them do like them though, but I know what you're saying. Does the Prestige *only* come as an auto? You mention a turbo variant, but very rare to get RHD. Would that one would be a manual gearbox? >> Should I choose a petrol over a diesel? > Your call. Well, I'd prefer petrol. I'm not sure why, but I had it in my head that all the turbo models were diesel. As I said, the model and variant matrix looked like a mass of spaghetti to the outsider. Petrol it is, then. Does the Prestige come in a diesel variant? I'm still with an open mind at this stage. >> What are the power and performance specifications of each variant? > 20 - 105bhp > 22 - 115bhp > 25ie auto - 138bhp but very low geared. > 25 turbo - 168bhp > TurboD - 120ish bhp, IIRC? The 22 sounds reasonable, but a lightly tuned 25 Turbo would be quite a beast, would it not? What about the gearboxes (the bane of the SAAB tuner) ... How do they hold up to a good dose of torque? >> Is there a sort of "top of the range" model? > Turbo or Prestige. Prestige Turbo is the holy grail. Okay. >> Are there any special editions I should look out for? > 22 Croisette is the only one the UK ever got. Okay. What made it "special"? >> What are the common areas of failure? > Rot. I know all about that from various rust bucket SAABs. > The 25 pushrod engines are bulletproof - 300,000 miles is not uncommon. The > 20/22 OHC are less so, but are much lighter. Did I read somewhere that Volvo were involved in the 25 engine? > Look VERY VERY VERY carefully *all* over the body - particularly sunroof > (open it and look all round the aperture), front floors, sills, bonnet and > boot edges, door bottoms, door shell front edges, base of the A-pillar as > it disappears behind the front wing. Noted. Thanks. > Rear suspension arm bearings go, causing the tyres to wear unevenly. The > ride should be *superb* (especially after a C900...) - but if it isn't, new > spheres aren't expensive. The hydraulics are utterly reliable with proper > maintenance, but the pipes can rot. The foot brakes should feel capable of > pulling a 747 down from landing velocity, but the handbrake is awful. It should be green, with no hint of red or brown, right? How would I check? The top-up reservoir, maybe? I've heard about blood-like trails of fluid leaking from sagging Citroëns. What does proper maintenance mean? Should be fluid be changed on a regular basis, or do the pipes need refreshing. Is an overhaul expensive? My current SAAB C900 is an absolute boneshaker ... In a good way :) I must confess, what attracts me to these cars is the suspension. I spend most of my daily travelling in inner city areas where speed bumps are everywhere. Dragging my lowered C900 over speed bumps is no fun, especially when slightly too fast unhooks the exhaust ... AGAIN!!! Grrr! The CX does have the "pump up" suspension, right? Can they also do the three wheel trick? > Some cars have 390mm (15.5") TRX wheels - incl all Turbos - with *VERY* > expensive tyres. £150-200 *each*. Others have 14". Some 15" 80s/90s/modern > Alfa rims fit, and can look very very good. Whoa! Definitely noted!!! Thanks for the reply. I'm much more clear about a lot of things. ... Some more questions ... Service intervals? How many miles between minor services, generally? Do the turbo models need special attention, like more frequent oil changes? I've seen some pictures with the single spoke steering wheel and others with a split single spoke (kind of like two narrower spokes side by side). I want the single spoke. <http://www.citroenclubnederland.nl/types/typpics/interieur.jpg> <http://www.citroenclubnederland.nl/types/typpics/interieur%20nieuw.jpg> When did these change? Which interiors fit with which model variant? Twin round headlamps. What's the deal with these? Were they fitted to a particular model, or are they an accessory/extra? I fancy it gives the car a slight look of the DS. What is the general opinion of those headlamps? Thanks again, Paul >>> I currently own a classic SAAB 900 >> Oooh, I likes them. Took one across the Sahara a couple of years ago. > Cool! You weren't one of the Desert Vikings or Lunar Trolls, were you? > They were a couple of teams in a charity North African race <waves battered Viking helmet> <shakes sand out of keyboard> Sven is/was an '88 slope-nose 900i 2-dr. My mother had an '86 900i 5-dr while I was learning to drive, and my brother's got a '92 900S 16v 5-dr currently. > It's the CX experience that I'm after, so yeah, the 22 carb sound > interesting but are they daily driver CXs? Probably the best "compromise"/"balance", IMHO. > The Prestige certainly sound like a right boat ... 9" longer in the > rear doors? And some extra headroom. They're *big*... > Does that constitute a "limousine" in the Citroën sense of the word? The Euro markets got a version badged as the "Limousine", but that was a lower-spec diesel version of the Prestige. We didn't get it. >>> I'm after that luxurious looking padded leather interior >> Most likely on a GTi Auto, Turbo or Prestige. Tan or black, some >> burgundy on LHD cars - dubious taste. Later GTi Auto and 22 >> "Croisette" special edition had very tasteful, very hard wearing >> "VIP" black/grey herringbone cloth. > Like this: <http://www.geocities.com/citromalta/in02.jpg> That's a GTi Turbo - the red seam piping gives it away over a GTi Auto which would have matching piping. Prestige leather's slightly different, with more of a "box-quilt" pattern. > Are these the cloth seats? > <http://www.geocities.com/citromalta/in00.jpg> Yep. VERY very nice. Same material as BX GTi - I have a set of those in a 2cv van at the mo... > Right, okay, GTi Turbo or Prestige. The list is narrowing. I think I > was erring towards the top end of the range anyway. You'll find leather in a GTi Auto, too - and it's easy enough to retro-fit to a 22. To a certain extent, find a good condition car, then worry about precise spec. >> Auto means 25 GTi/Prestige auto only. Clutches can be very heavy, and >> don't really sit well with the rest of the "CX experience", IMHO - >> but buy shares in BP. > The "CX experience" ... That's it. That's what I'm after. Autos are > not generally well thought of in the SAAB C900 arena either. Those > that own them do like them though, but I know what you're saying. Don't get me wrong, the CX auto is a *nice* car, but it's a bit low-geared for <sorry, officer> low-altitude motorway flight... It'll sit happily at all legal and "usual" motorway velocities, though the revs are a bit high over about 90mph. Compared to an 8v 900i, though, a 20 would be similar/slightly quicker. Hell, I saw an indicated 130mph out of my old s1 20... > Does the Prestige *only* come as an auto? Unless it's a turbo. The autobox was only put on the 25ie, and for UK/s2/saloon, that engine was autobox-only. > You mention a turbo variant, but very rare to get RHD. They built 5... > Would that one would be a manual gearbox? Yes. > Does the Prestige come in a diesel variant? Not RHD. > The 22 sounds reasonable, but a lightly tuned 25 Turbo would be quite > a beast, would it not? What about the gearboxes (the bane of the SAAB > tuner) ... How do they hold up to a good dose of torque? Bomb-proof. There's a guy on the CX list with 400bhp from a turbo - 170mph through the lower-ratio diesel gearbox. No probs. >>> Are there any special editions I should look out for? >> 22 Croisette is the only one the UK ever got. > Okay. What made it "special"? The sales spiel... <g> Basically it was a late-GTi Auto spec but with 22 engine. Slightly nicer trim, electric mirrors etc. >>> What are the common areas of failure? >> Rot. > I know all about that from various rust bucket SAABs. Oh, no, you don't... A bad CX will teach you *SO* much more about rot... >> The 25 pushrod engines are bulletproof - 300,000 miles is not >> uncommon. The 20/22 OHC are less so, but are much lighter. > > Did I read somewhere that Volvo were involved in the 25 engine? The 20/22 is a Douvrin lump - joint venture with Peugeot/Renault/Volvo/Citroen. I don't think Volvo ever used that, same as Citroen never used the Douvrin v6 that appeared in the 260/760, R25, Pug 505. >> The hydraulics are utterly reliable with proper maintenance > It should be green, with no hint of red or brown, right? Bright vivid emerald. > How would I check? The top-up reservoir, maybe? Yep. Pop the top off and stick a finger in. Be careful not to leave the finger behind because of the sharp edges... <grin> To check the level, stick the car on full high before reading the float. To see the colour, drop it to full flat - there'll be more in the reservoir. ONLY USE LHM. Brake fluid WILL kill the hydraulics QUICKLY. > I've heard about blood-like trails of fluid leaking from sagging > Citroëns. Rotten pipes or, for more minor trails, a leak on a plastic/rubber low- pressure return. > What does proper maintenance mean? Should be fluid be changed on a > regular basis Yep. If the old fluid's very black, it's worth flushing through (an extra change with special cleaning fluid left in for 1500 miles). Change it every year or two. Spheres usually last three-four years, and are about £20 each - six fitted. The brake accumulator is usually neglected, but is perhaps the most safety-critical. > or do the pipes need refreshing. Most will have been replaced with cupro-nickel by now. > Is an overhaul expensive? It should never be needed. > My current SAAB C900 is an absolute boneshaker ... In a good way :) > I must confess, what attracts me to these cars is the suspension. I > spend most of my daily travelling in inner city areas where speed > bumps are everywhere. Dragging my lowered C900 over speed bumps is no > fun, especially when slightly too fast unhooks the exhaust ... We left Sven's *entire* exhaust (from the end of the downpipe) somewhere in Mauritania, despite spring assisters and welded skid plates. The sump guard also failed to stop a serious gearbox oil leak developing... > The CX does have the "pump up" suspension, right? Can they also do the > three wheel trick? But of course... (I've never tried the three-wheel trick, but it certainly should, although you may grind the disk cover down a bit) > Service intervals? How many miles between minor services, generally? 6,000 miles. > Do the turbo models need special attention, like more frequent oil > changes? No. > <http://www.citroenclubnederland.nl/types/typpics/interieur.jpg> s1 (stainless bumper) dash, pre-85 (actually, that's 77-82, note the golf- ball ashtray). Note the rotating-drum dials. Freaky & gorgeous. > <http://www.citroenclubnederland.nl/types/typpics/interieur% > 20nieuw.jpg s2 (plastic bumper) dash. > Twin round headlamps. What's the deal with these? Were they fitted to > a particular model, or are they an accessory/extra? I fancy it gives > the car a slight look of the DS. What is the general opinion of those > headlamps? Personal opinion? Vile. Aftermarket accessory. Hideous. On a par with the "plant-pot shelf" rear window sunvisors. >>>> I currently own a classic SAAB 900 > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > while I was learning to drive, and my brother's got a '92 900S 16v 5-dr > currently. I remember Sven! I might even have offered advice when you posted on alt.autos.saab ... >> It's the CX experience that I'm after, so yeah, the 22 carb sound >> interesting but are they daily driver CXs? > > Probably the best "compromise"/"balance", IMHO. But ... Carburettors ... Daily driver? One thing I can say about the SAAB reliability is that it will fire up first time, every time in sub-zero or summer temperatures. While we're on the subject, how does the CX fire up? "Click ... Boom" or "Click .. Cough Cough Cough .. Boom"? >> The Prestige certainly sound like a right boat ... 9" longer in the >> rear doors? > > And some extra headroom. They're *big*... Ooooh! I'll keep that model in mind for a second CX, if I get that far :) <snip>Seats</snip> Well, black leather with piping is the style I like ... Looks like the GTi is winning ... >>> Auto means 25 GTi/Prestige auto only. Clutches can be very heavy, and >>> don't really sit well with the rest of the "CX experience", IMHO - [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > all legal and "usual" motorway velocities, though the revs are a bit high > over about 90mph. Okay. Noted. Maybe keep that option for the second Prestige model (see above) :) > Compared to an 8v 900i, though, a 20 would be similar/slightly quicker. > Hell, I saw an indicated 130mph out of my old s1 20... I pegged my "Inga" 1985 8V 900i ... The slightly higher ride height on the injection only models made it a little unstable at speed. She was a little terror, though and gave my wife's VW Scirocco GT II something to chase around the twisties. I really miss that car ... Very simple and unbreakable. >> The 22 sounds reasonable, but a lightly tuned 25 Turbo would be quite >> a beast, would it not? What about the gearboxes (the bane of the SAAB [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > There's a guy on the CX list with 400bhp from a turbo - 170mph through the > lower-ratio diesel gearbox. No probs. Gosh! Stealthy ... More tuneable than I thought. Can anyone enlighten me as to the engine specifics of the turbo models? What turbo did they run? What boost? Are they intercooled? How is the turbo "tuned" - is it a manual wastegate tweak, or is is electronically controlled? If so, how? SAABs of that era had the legendary "APC System", which is essentially a primitive turbo timer, tuner and knock sensor. Very effective, nevertheless! ... I think my mind has been made up, unless, of course I happen across a good 22 first ... >>>> Are there any special editions I should look out for? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Basically it was a late-GTi Auto spec but with 22 engine. Slightly nicer > trim, electric mirrors etc. Sounds like the old "run-out model" trick. >>> The hydraulics are utterly reliable with proper maintenance > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ONLY USE LHM. Brake fluid WILL kill the hydraulics QUICKLY. Easy. Thanks. >> I've heard about blood-like trails of fluid leaking from sagging >> Citroëns. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > - six fitted. The brake accumulator is usually neglected, but is perhaps > the most safety-critical. Doesn't sound too bad at all. >> My current SAAB C900 is an absolute boneshaker ... In a good way :) >> I must confess, what attracts me to these cars is the suspension. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Mauritania, despite spring assisters and welded skid plates. The sump guard > also failed to stop a serious gearbox oil leak developing... A sump guard is on the list for my C900. >> Service intervals? How many miles between minor services, generally? > > 6,000 miles. Good. >> Do the turbo models need special attention, like more frequent oil >> changes? > > No. Better. My C900 T8 needs oil changes about every 3500 miles, or the temperature starts to creep. >> <http://www.citroenclubnederland.nl/types/typpics/interieur.jpg> > > s1 (stainless bumper) dash, pre-85 (actually, that's 77-82, note the golf- > ball ashtray). Note the rotating-drum dials. Freaky & gorgeous. Yeah, they're quite something ... I fear I'd be watching them more than the road though! >> <http://www.citroenclubnederland.nl/types/typpics/interieur% >> 20nieuw.jpg > > s2 (plastic bumper) dash. Yummy! It's like a spacecraft :) Fantastic interior. Series 1 ... Series 2 ... Around MY 1985 ... Ploink! The penny has dropped now :) Is there a series 1/2 distinction between the sloping rear wheel arches and the straight wheel arches? >> Twin round headlamps. What's the deal with these? Were they fitted to >> a particular model, or are they an accessory/extra? I fancy it gives [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Personal opinion? Vile. Aftermarket accessory. Hideous. On a par with the > "plant-pot shelf" rear window sunvisors. I think they're kind of okay, buy hey, I'm a newbie :) I've seen pictures of louvres now and a sunroof wind deflector which is very SAAB 900. I'd feel quite at home with those accessories! What other external accessories were on offer? I've been reading about the clever power steering; light for when parking and stiffens up at speed. Nice! What other quirks are there? Do the headlamps follow the steering in the CX? Also, what kind of comfort extras are on offer? Aircon? Climate control? Memory seats? Can the steering wheel be moved to suit the driver? Thanks again, Paul > I remember Sven! I might even have offered advice when you posted on > alt.autos.saab ... If you did, then it's good to be able to return the favour now... >> Probably the best "compromise"/"balance", IMHO. > But ... Carburettors ... Daily driver? <shrug> Why not? > One thing I can say about the SAAB reliability is that it will fire up > first time, every time in sub-zero or summer temperatures. While we're > on the subject, how does the CX fire up? "Click ... Boom" or "Click .. > Cough Cough Cough .. Boom"? It's a long while since I had the 20, but no probs there, from what I recall. Hell, it was on *points*... > Gosh! Stealthy ... More tuneable than I thought. You Do Not Want To Know What He's Spent On It. > Can anyone enlighten me as to the engine specifics of the turbo > models? What turbo did they run? What boost? Are they intercooled? How > is the turbo "tuned" - is it a manual wastegate tweak, or is is > electronically controlled? If so, how? It's complex. There's a replacement modified ECU, no longer available, together with a pile of other bits including a Sierra Cos clutch, IIRC. If you want that, look for a car that's already been modified. The magic word is Maikonics. >> Yep. If the old fluid's very black, it's worth flushing through (an >> extra change with special cleaning fluid left in for 1500 miles). >> Change it every year or two. Spheres usually last three-four years, >> and are about £20 each - six fitted. The brake accumulator is usually >> neglected, but is perhaps the most safety-critical. > Doesn't sound too bad at all. It's not. And it is very well worth it. The brake acc's a PITA, though, hence the neglect - and, of course, it doesn't get easier if ignored... > Yummy! It's like a spacecraft :) It IS a spacecraft... > Series 1 ... Series 2 ... Around MY 1985 ... > Ploink! The penny has dropped now :) Yup. For a daily car, s2. No question. > Is there a series 1/2 distinction between the sloping rear wheel > arches and the straight wheel arches? Yep. But, believe it or not, the only metalwork change is the front wings are slightly shorter at the lower front. It's amazing what a tiny nip'n'tuck can do. s2 - plastic bumpers - deeper plastic rear spats. s1 - stainless bumpers - slopy metal rear spats. > I've been reading about the clever power steering; light for when > parking and stiffens up at speed. Nice! What other quirks are there? There's the "look'n'lock" zero-travel brake pedal feeding 2,500psi of hydraulic pressure to the four-pot front calipers... No direct mechanical linkage between steering and wheels in normal use, and 2,500psi of pressure holding the wheels straight ahead, yet finger- light steering. > Do the headlamps follow the steering in the CX? Unfortunately not. > Also, what kind of comfort extras are on offer? Aircon? Option. > Climate control? Standard on all s2. > Memory seats? Not even electric. > Can the steering wheel be moved to suit the driver? No. Later GTi and Turbo will have electric heated mirrors (as used by Lotus/TVR), earlier cars might have manual internal adjustment. Turbo will have one-touch driver's door window. Hell, that's all frippery - the important bit is that it's a CX. Nothing else like it. Try one. But try one *properly*... They always used to say that if you drive one for five minutes, you'll never want to drive another - but drive one for five hours, and you'll never want to drive anything else. >> I remember Sven! I might even have offered advice when you posted on >> alt.autos.saab ... > > If you did, then it's good to be able to return the favour now... Yeah, thanks ... Understanding the CX is less of a muddle now. After a quick google, I think I might only have promised to cheer for you :) >>> Probably the best "compromise"/"balance", IMHO. > >> But ... Carburettors ... Daily driver? > > <shrug> Why not? As I said, I've an open mind ... >> Can anyone enlighten me as to the engine specifics of the turbo >> models? What turbo did they run? What boost? Are they intercooled? How [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you want that, look for a car that's already been modified. The magic > word is Maikonics. In the SAAB world, we've reverse engineered the APC system and as a community are in the position to actually improve the system (for performance), while retaining the anti-knock and boost control features. If the CX ECU is no longer available, are there any sites that people know of that dig into the silicon to see how it works/how to tweak it? I'd still like to know about the turbo, intercooler, flow rate, boost levels, etc ... Getting serious now :) I've been looking about for some engine bay pictures, but come up with only a handful of rather small and undetailed pictures. I'll keep scouring. >>> Yep. If the old fluid's very black, it's worth flushing through (an >>> extra change with special cleaning fluid left in for 1500 miles). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > It's not. And it is very well worth it. The brake acc's a PITA, though, > hence the neglect - and, of course, it doesn't get easier if ignored... I'd probably be over-zealous about the condition of that system. <snip>Series 1/2 Differences Thanks a million. It's quite clear to me now. >> I've been reading about the clever power steering; light for when >> parking and stiffens up at speed. Nice! What other quirks are there? > > There's the "look'n'lock" zero-travel brake pedal feeding 2,500psi of > hydraulic pressure to the four-pot front calipers... Oh yes. I've heard about this ... Can you explain? > No direct mechanical linkage between steering and wheels in normal use, > and 2,500psi of pressure holding the wheels straight ahead, yet finger- > light steering. I think this might be one of those "sit in the driver's seat" experiences. <snip>Options > Nothing else like it. Try one. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > never want to drive another - but drive one for five hours, and you'll > never want to drive anything else. The thing about acquired tastes is that you need to set off with the intention of acquiring the taste ... How did you take to the C900 driving position, BTW? The seat position is one of those that you either fit it, or you don't. I think I've enough pointers to test out a number of quirks on a short test drive. I actually have a feeling I might know someone who knows someone with a CX you know ... I'll sound him out when I next see him. That'd be ideal for getting a good test drive, rather than a series of quick drives. Thanks a million Adrian. I'd still like to hear the opinions of others ... Anyone else? Cheers, Paul >> There's the "look'n'lock" zero-travel brake pedal feeding 2,500psi of >> hydraulic pressure to the four-pot front calipers... > Oh yes. I've heard about this ... Can you explain? The brake valve doesn't *generate* pressure, it just passes the system pressure through to the brake circuit - so there's no real travel on the pedal, it's pressure-sensitive. Very unusual feel at first, but you quickly get used to it. The suspension and brakes, together with the pump, control block, accumulator are exactly the same in principle to the DS (GS, SM, BX, Xant, XM) - have a look at http://www.citroencarclub.org.uk/ds/ > How did you take to the C900 driving position, BTW? The seat position > is one of those that you either fit it, or you don't. It seemed to fit just fine. It's the complete opposite of the CX - very upright, while the CX is very laid back. >> Gosh! Stealthy ... More tuneable than I thought. > >You Do Not Want To Know What He's Spent On It. CGAT? http://www.citroen.mb.ca/citroenet/html/c/ccc2006.html -- Ian >>>> Gosh! Stealthy ... More tuneable than I thought. >>>You Do Not Want To Know What He's Spent On It. >> CGAT? >> http://www.citroen.mb.ca/citroenet/html/c/ccc2006.html C'est ca. >> Is there a series 1/2 distinction between the sloping rear wheel >> arches and the straight wheel arches? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > s2 - plastic bumpers - deeper plastic rear spats. > s1 - stainless bumpers - slopy metal rear spats. This might seem anathema to the CX owner, but is it possible to retro-fit the S2 interior to the S1? Possibly more easy, is it possible to strip the bumpers, side stripes and rear spats off an S2 to fit the older S1 exterior? Oh, inside the CX S2, the head unit is between the seats ... What is the second box in this picture? <http://www.chooseyouritem.com/autos/photos/89000/89315-7.1986.Citroen.CX.jp g> Finally, he says :), on some CXs there is a hump on the bonnet, like this: <http://home.t-online.de/home/hs.pilot/PicCXT1/CX-Haube.jpg> What's that for? In the engine bay, it seems to go to some sort of air intake - is it for the engine, or the cabin air vent? Is it part of a comfort option (like aircon) ... I suppose what I'm asking is does the vent in itself tell me anything about the spec of the car? TIA, Paul > Possibly more easy, is it possible to strip the bumpers, side stripes and > rear spats off an S2 to fit the older S1 exterior? You'd have to swap the front wings, but otherwise, yep, I think it'd be fairly straightforward. > Oh, inside the CX S2, the head unit is between the seats ... What is the > second box in this picture? > <http://www.chooseyouritem.com/autos/photos/89000/89315- 7.1986.Citroen.CX.jpg> Looks like a graphic equaliser. Cor, remember them? There's normally a storage bin there -Standard DIN size, so can be used for an amp or second head unit or CD-player or whatever. > Finally, he says :), on some CXs there is a hump on the bonnet, like > this: <http://home.t-online.de/home/hs.pilot/PicCXT1/CX-Haube.jpg> All of 'em. > What's that for? In the engine bay, it seems to go to some sort of air > intake - is it for the engine, or the cabin air vent? Yep, the cabin air intake is just beneath there - the "heater tower". > Is it part of a comfort option (like aircon) ... No. > I suppose what I'm asking is does the > vent in itself tell me anything about the spec of the car? If it's got a letter "T" stuck on the front, it's a GTi Turbo or Prestige Turbo... Oh, yes - and if you're looking straight at it from the driver's seat, it's a RHD car - the main reason that sitting in the LH front seat of a CX just doesn't "feel right" to me... >> Possibly more easy, is it possible to strip the bumpers, side stripes and >> rear spats off an S2 to fit the older S1 exterior? > > You'd have to swap the front wings, but otherwise, yep, I think it'd be > fairly straightforward. Worth bearing in mind, then. For me, anyway :) >> Oh, inside the CX S2, the head unit is between the seats ... What is the >> second box in this picture? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > storage bin there -Standard DIN size, so can be used for an amp or second > head unit or CD-player or whatever. ... not much use for a DIN slot coin and cup holder :) The C900 has two DIN slots, also. The top one usually holds the head unit and the lower one is a storage slot. In mine, I have gauges in the top one and the head unit in the lower one in front of the gear stick. I can think of all manner of things to use a spare DIN slot for. Cool! >> Finally, he says :), on some CXs there is a hump on the bonnet, like >> this: <http://home.t-online.de/home/hs.pilot/PicCXT1/CX-Haube.jpg> > > All of 'em. Really? I'm sure I've seen a whole stack of pictures that didn't have a hump. I suppose it might have been the angle. >> What's that for? In the engine bay, it seems to go to some sort of air >> intake - is it for the engine, or the cabin air vent? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > a RHD car - the main reason that sitting in the LH front seat of a CX just > doesn't "feel right" to me... It's half-begging for an external boost gauge to sit on top of it ... I'll get my coat :) Thanks again, Adrian. I think I'm pretty clued up about it all now. Just need to find some actual cars to go and look at and drive. I see there's the Yorkshire Classic Car Show coming up at the end of the month. I think I'll bob along to that to see what I can see. Paul > The C900 has two DIN slots, also. The top one usually holds the head > unit and the lower one is a storage slot. In mine, I have gauges in > the top one and the head unit in the lower one in front of the gear > stick. Yes, I remember not being able to remove Sven's pull-out stereo unless he was in 2nd/4th... > Just need to find some actual cars to go and look at and drive. I see > there's the Yorkshire Classic Car Show coming up at the end of the > month. I think I'll bob along to that to see what I can see. It was the CCC Northern Rally at Wetherby Racecourse a week and a half ago. But you don't want to know that, do you? >> Just need to find some actual cars to go and look at and drive. I see >> there's the Yorkshire Classic Car Show coming up at the end of the >> month. I think I'll bob along to that to see what I can see. > > It was the CCC Northern Rally at Wetherby Racecourse a week and a half ago. > But you don't want to know that, do you? Oh *rse! Well, lets hope there's something at Ripley Castle. It was actually some pictures a friend sent me of a stunning DS at a classic car show down in Suffolk a month or so ago that got me onto Citroëns again. I'd love a DS, but need more space and time to keep one. That got me thinking about a "practical classic" like the CX. Paul >> It was the CCC Northern Rally at Wetherby Racecourse a week and a >> half ago. But you don't want to know that, do you? > Oh *rse! Well, lets hope there's something at Ripley Castle. There's an events calendar on www.citroencarclub.org.uk I'm currently trying (and failing) to ignore :- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4551944239 Message i.d.:<news:Xns9661E548D9E1Aadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170>, by author Adrian aka <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> inspired me, >>> It was the CCC Northern Rally at Wetherby Racecourse a week and a >>> half ago. But you don't want to know that, do you? > >> Oh *rse! Well, lets hope there's something at Ripley Castle. > > There's an events calendar on www.citroencarclub.org.uk Why not publish it here. It's a *news* group you know. > I'm currently trying (and failing) to ignore :- > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4551944239 I though you had enough?  Signatured:Johan; Certifiable me Seasons Wishes at http://www.aacit.net/aac.gif Click -[ HERE ]- to continue..... >> There's an events calendar on www.citroencarclub.org.uk > Why not publish it here. It's a *news* group you know. Because it changes regularly, and it's not in a format easy to cut'n'paste. Message i.d.:<news:Xns9662C91B93F7Cadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170>, by author Adrian aka <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> inspired me, >>> There's an events calendar on www.citroencarclub.org.uk > >> Why not publish it here. It's a *news* group you know. > > Because it changes regularly, and it's not in a format easy to > cut'n'paste. I'll contact the webmaster. Signatured:Johan; Certifiable me Seasons Wishes at http://www.aacit.net/aac.gif No, I am not demented, just gray haired >>>> There's an events calendar on www.citroencarclub.org.uk >>> Why not publish it here. It's a *news* group you know. >> Because it changes regularly, and it's not in a format easy to >> cut'n'paste. > I'll contact the webmaster. You just did... Message i.d.:<news:Xns9662E4C919071adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170>, by author Adrian aka <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> inspired me, >>>>> There's an events calendar on www.citroencarclub.org.uk > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You just did... I knew :-p Signatured:Johan; Certifiable me Seasons Wishes at http://www.aacit.net/aac.gif IHUMFA > Message > i.d.:<news:Xns9662E4C919071adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170>, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I knew :-p What about RSS? Very useful for keeping people up to date with changing data. I could write the templates if you need. Paul > What about RSS? Very useful for keeping people up to date with changing > data. I could write the templates if you need. Already there. For news items, try subscribing to http://www.citroencarclub.org.uk/PostNuke/backend.php If you know PHP, though, Paul, and you're serious that you'd be happy to devote a bit of time & effort, drop me an email to webmaster@citroencarclub.org.uk >> I'm currently trying (and failing) to ignore :- >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4551944239 > > I though you had enough? It's a nice one ... Very tempting, but I think for my first "toe in the water" with Citroën, I need a later model ... and coming from SAAB, a faster one :) They are very few and far between, though. While I'm looking for a CX, how does the Xantia hold up to "that" Citroën experience? They're available in abundance. What about a BX or an XM? What is the fast (preferably, turbocharged), luxury model of those? Or, is a lesser powered diesel worth looking at for a daily driver? Paul > While I'm looking for a CX, how does the Xantia hold up to "that" > Citroën experience? They're available in abundance. What about a BX or > an XM? What is the fast (preferably, turbocharged), luxury model of > those? Or, is a lesser powered diesel worth looking at for a daily > driver? Xant? Fairly "normal", fairly tedious. BX? Slightly less "normal", still fairly tedious. XM? Lot more "normal" than a CX, far "better" car. But not a patch on a CX as an emotional experience. I've had a 2.0 Turbo auto (150bhp) XM for nearly five years, replacing an '89 CX 25GTi auto. I *miss* that CX. If you're considering an XM, go for a series 2 (post-95). 2.0 16v, 2.0 Turbo, 3.0 v6, 3.0 24v, 2.1TD, 2.5TD. 2.5TD is fast, but starting to look as if it doesn't much like high mileages. Auto boxes like dying at 120k+ miles, but easily prevented by changing the fluid every engine oil change. Paul Halliday <pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk> haute in die Tasten: > so yeah, the 22 carb sound interesting but are > they daily driver CXs? IMHO a CX is too old and too rare to be a daily driver. What about an XM. They are cheap, deliver superb comfort and if you are willng to spend some money for fuel, you can get a 200 HP V6 with three litres. When Mercedes searched for the right suspension setup for their S- Class W140, they took an XM as a sample. When looking for an XM, avoid the 2.5 litre turbodiesel engine. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance > Paul Halliday <pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk> haute in die Tasten: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Class W140, they took an XM as a sample. When looking for an XM, > avoid the 2.5 litre turbodiesel engine. I think you're right. I've looked at three potential CXs now and TBH, they're amazing, gorgeous and beautiful cars, but not a replacement for my SAAB C900 as a daily driver. I'd still like one .. but it's another "classic" (or retro) car, which I need a little more space and time for. I've looked at a series 2 Gti turbo which did not have the leather interior I insist on having, another series 2 Gti turbo with leather but bad door rust and a series 1 Prestige which I came "that" close to sealing a deal on. Great cars! So, yeah, the XM (or even the Xantia) still look like the favourite for a daily runner. TBH, the bad press over the XM's aircon system puts me off. Now that I've had a little time to distill exactly what I want .. It's a diesel, auto with air and leather; either an XM or Xantia. Failing that, a V6 or a CT turbo with air and leather. I've not started to look seriously at XMs, but they too are a little thin on the ground. I'll let you guys know how I get on ... Paul > So, yeah, the XM (or even the Xantia) still look like the favourite > for a daily runner. TBH, the bad press over the XM's aircon system > puts me off. I've had probs with the climate in mine, yes, but I don't think it should be a make-or-break. Especially with the weather over the last few days, the aircon is *GORGEOUS*... > It's a diesel, auto ... XM No, you don't... The 2.1TD/Auto combination isn't great, and the 2.5TD never came with auto. >> So, yeah, the XM (or even the Xantia) still look like the favourite >> for a daily runner. TBH, the bad press over the XM's aircon system [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > be a make-or-break. Especially with the weather over the last few days, the > aircon is *GORGEOUS*... That's exactly the reason. Summer is coming ... Well, here, now. I want to be cool comfortable ... and not get upset about unhitching my exhaust (again) over speed bumps. >> It's a diesel, auto ... XM > > No, you don't... > > The 2.1TD/Auto combination isn't great, and the 2.5TD never came with auto. Right, okay ... Getting tangled again with models and specs :) Just re-read your summary from a couple of weeks ago. Forget diesel then for the XM. The V6 sounds just the ticket. I know you advised that a while ago and I completely ignored you - must be conditioning from the SAAB world, where the V6 was *not* a good car at all. Citroën seem to have made a better job of it. Time to start looking seriously for the XM now. I'll leave diesel as a possibility for the Xantia as a third choice ... Getting further and further away from the CX now :( Paul Paul Halliday <pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk> haute in die Tasten: > That's exactly the reason. Summer is coming ... Well, here, > now. I want to be cool comfortable ... and not get upset about > unhitching my exhaust (again) over speed bumps. Is this your concern when you said these cars are a little bit thin on the ground? A lack of ground clearance? (I am German and english is nor my native langage). Both Xantia and XM feature a self levelling hydropneumatic suspension which features enough ground clearance for a good drive. Do not get fooled by the cars standing at the dealer's parking lot: Citroes lie down if they have been standing with engine shut off for a while. They stand up right after starting the engine again. AFAIK the XM lowers its body a little bit at high speeds in order to reduce wind drag. But you would never pass a speed bump at 60 mph, would you? I love ingnoring these 20 mph speedbumps they are installing everywhere in Germany. It is the same with railroad crossings of all kind and vintage;-) An XM is even better in that discipline. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance >> ... and not get upset about >> unhitching my exhaust (again) over speed bumps. > Is this your concern when you said these cars are a little bit thin > on the ground? A lack of ground clearance? (I am German and english > is nor my native langage). "Thin on the ground" means they are rare, there's not many to be found. Paul's current car is a Saab 900 - the exhausts are very low and vulnerable on those. I know from experience... > Paul Halliday <pjgh@blueyonder.co.uk> haute in die Tasten: > >> That's exactly the reason. Summer is coming ... Well, here, >> now. I want to be cool comfortable ... and not get upset about >> unhitching my exhaust (again) over speed bumps. > Is this your concern when you said these cars are a little bit thin > on the ground? A lack of ground clearance? (I am German and english > is nor my native langage). My apologies ... "a little thin on the ground" is a colloquial English phrase which means that they are not plentiful. We don't see many on the roads here and the usual second-hand car outlets do not show many for sale. > Both Xantia and XM feature a self levelling hydropneumatic suspension > which features enough ground clearance for a good drive. Do not get [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lowers its body a little bit at high speeds in order to reduce wind > drag. But you would never pass a speed bump at 60 mph, would you? The suspension is absolutely the main attraction. I'd never even considered Citroën before and had no idea how luxurious and comfortable the interiors were, either. > I love ingnoring these 20 mph speedbumps they are installing > everywhere in Germany. It is the same with railroad crossings of all > kind and vintage;-) An XM is even better in that discipline. That is *exactly* what first interested me. A friend was describing how he experienced a DS "showing off" by just ignoring a speed bump and gliding over it. The car behind lurched and pitched :) Paul > When looking for an XM, > avoid the 2.5 litre turbodiesel engine. Can you qualify that? Why? What's "wrong" with it? The XM is a big car. Should I stick to petrol for that model? Paul >> When looking for an XM, >> avoid the 2.5 litre turbodiesel engine. > Can you qualify that? Why? What's "wrong" with it? I'm wondering that, too. The heads can crack at 100-150k miles, the two rads are expensive to replace, and it's not THAT much more economical than the petrols - but it's reputed to be an absolutely stonking lump to drive. Torque-a-go-go. Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> haute in die Tasten: > The heads can crack at 100-150k miles, the two rads are > expensive to replace, and it's not THAT much more economical > than the petrols - but it's reputed to be an absolutely stonking > lump to drive. Torque-a-go-go. The 2.5 diesel engine suffers from expensive head damages, from overheating and various other mechanical damages. A colleague of mine drives a '94 XM 2.5TD and had rebuilt the engine twice, which would cost him 1500 euros each. And you cannot find such an engine on the junkyard, because usually a totalled engine is the reason for an XM 2.5 to get there... Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance >> The models, variants and trim levels are a bit of a minefield to be >> honest. What I'd like to know is pretty much which is the model to [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > diesels. All CXs are getting scarce in good nick, but s1 were less well > (?!) rust-protected. I really like this one: <http://home.t-online.de/home/hs.pilot/PicCXT1/CXTurbo10.jpg> Are those spoilers a S1 thing only, or do you also find them on S2 models? I can't believe how vast the Prestige models are: <http://home.t-online.de/home/breindl/PicCXPrestigeS1/Prestige03.JPG> Awesome! Rather than climbing in, you can practically walk into this car. Well ... Now I have a problem. I prefer the outside style of the S1 GTi Turbo, but the interior of the S2. Ignoring the GTi for a minute (which I think is my favourite, all things considered), the CX22 TRS ... What carburettor did it use? Was it a single or twin-carb setup? TIA, Paul > I really like this one: > <http://home.t-online.de/home/hs.pilot/PicCXT1/CXTurbo10.jpg> > > Are those spoilers a S1 thing only, or do you also find them on S2 > models? That's the standard turbo spoiler, should be on all GTi Turbos, s1 and s2. s1 GTi and all s2 saloons got a little lip spoiler. > I can't believe how vast the Prestige models are: > Awesome! Rather than climbing in, you can practically walk into this car. Yup... http://home.t-online.de/home/hs.pilot/PicPresT2/Prestige02.jpg > Well ... Now I have a problem. I prefer the outside style of the S1 > GTi Turbo, but the interior of the S2. Ignoring the GTi for a minute > (which I think is my favourite, all things considered), the CX22 TRS > ... What carburettor did it use? Was it a single or twin-carb setup? A single twin-choke. Can't remember offhand if it was a Weber or a Solex - it may well have changed over the years.
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