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Car Forum / Citroen Cars / October 2005Engine swap on D-series/SM possible?
Is there any other engine which is a reasonable swap for a D-series or SM? > Is there any other engine which is a reasonable swap for a D-series or > SM? Umm, why would you? The D engine is *bomb*proof, and the SM engine is two-thirds of the point of an SM. People have put diseasels and other inappropriate things into Ds and SMs, but... > > Is there any other engine which is a reasonable swap for a D-series or > > SM? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > People have put diseasels and other inappropriate things into Ds and SMs, > but... Which diesel went in a D-series?? A CX I presume? The D-series four is "bombproof" as you say, but one might want a little more power. The Maser V6 in the SM is dogshit and I greatly enjoyed seeing one sawn up for a cutaway display for a vo-tech school some years back. >> > Is there any other engine which is a reasonable swap for a D-series >> > or SM? >> Umm, why would you? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> People have put diseasels and other inappropriate things into Ds and >> SMs, but... > Which diesel went in a D-series?? A CX I presume? C35D. It's basically the same block as the D/CX pushrod boat-anchor, and the same 2175cc as the DS21/CX2200/CX2200D, but rotates in the DS direction - CX motors rotate the other way. > The D-series four is "bombproof" as you say, but one might want a > little more power. 140bhp from a 23ie not enough? How very odd. My XM turbo is 150bhp and plenty quick enough. > The Maser V6 in the SM is dogshit and I greatly enjoyed seeing one sawn > up for a cutaway display for a vo-tech school some years back. Odd. I always understood it to be a superb engine - if cared for sympathetically by somebody who understands it properly, and if the various developments are applied. <shrug> Can the CX engine be built "reverse rotation" or are there two different block assemblies? Many GM engines can "go either way" with cam and distributor gear changes-SB and BB Chevy, Corvair-as can the Detroit Diesels. (Which mostly weigh more than an entire DS.) I suppose a Chevy II four as well, which would probably fit in a D. Many Hondas are wrong-way too. Reverse rotation is why the Mazda rotary wasn't installed in the SM: otherwise it would have been the common swap. In the US a SM wasn't worth the price of an engine overhaul for a couple of decades at least. Are any swaps common in Europe? > Can the CX engine be built "reverse rotation" or are there two > different block assemblies? The D lump uses a different block to the CX. I'm sure you could rebuild a D block with CX25 liners/crank/whatever with a custom made cam, but why bother? The CX25ie is "only" 10bhp more than the DS23ie. Helluva lot of work for not much benefit. And that's before you've rigged all the L-Jet injection in. Yes, the turbo's got another 30bhp, but even more hassle. Better to start off with the D lump and use old-fashioned tuning. Oh - and the CX 2200D/C35D is 66bhp. > Reverse rotation is why the Mazda rotary wasn't installed in the SM: > otherwise it would have been the common swap. TFFT. > Are any swaps common in Europe? Luckily, no. But I do know of at least one D with an SM engine. I s'pose you could follow the original design philosophy, and use an air- cooled flat 6 as Citroen were originally intending. Now where on earth could you get one of them? > > Can the CX engine be built "reverse rotation" or are there two > > different block assemblies? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Oh - and the CX 2200D/C35D is 66bhp. The CX engine is probably more common than the D in Europe. In the US I would run carbs if possible, or aftermarket EFI. L-Jet is a PITA. Are DS23 engines still available commonly? > > Are any swaps common in Europe? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cooled flat 6 as Citroen were originally intending. Now where on earth > could you get one of them? Corvair. And it's reverse rotation stock! But I can't imagine it would fit. Years ago there was talk of a Porsche 917 replica with a Lycoming GSIO-480 with its planetary gearbox removed. Hmmmm. "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> haute in die Tasten: > The D-series four is "bombproof" as you say, but one might want > a > little more power. The Maser V6 in the SM is dogshit and I > greatly enjoyed seeing one sawn up for a cutaway display for a > vo-tech school some years back. Back in the 70's the boss of the Citroen garage which serviced my Dad's GS Break used to drive an SM with a D-Series engine. Given the fact that an extraordinary car deserves an extraordinary engine, if I were a genius of a mechanic I would try to install one of the following engines into a DS: Toyota Prius (the complete hybrid powertrain) Mazda RX Rotary engine Subaru flat 4 engine /w turbocharger. One might also try the 3.0 litre V6 out of a late Xantia. Chances seem reasonable that all of these engines would fit under the bonnet. Frank  Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance > Given the fact that an extraordinary car deserves an extraordinary > engine, if I were a genius of a mechanic I would try to install one > of the following engines into a DS: > > Toyota Prius (the complete hybrid powertrain) Hmmm. Interesting thought, but I think it may be monumentally underpowered. There's been at least one electric D. > Mazda RX Rotary engine > Subaru flat 4 engine /w turbocharger. > > One might also try the 3.0 litre V6 out of a late Xantia. Also from the XM (late 24v)/C5/C6... MMmmm. What about the new C6/S-type/XJ/Disco 2.7HDi V6? Or Alfa 24v v6? > Chances seem reasonable that all of these engines would fit under the > bonnet. I suspect that the first problem you'd have would be one of rotation direction. <<snip>> > I suspect that the first problem you'd have would be one of rotation > direction. Yup. The Mazda rotary would be perfect but getting it to run backwards would be impossible. With most piston engines, direction of rotation is limited by the accessories, particularly the oil pump. GM engines with distributor driven pumps can be run reverse by changing the cam and distributor gears. This includes the small and big block Chevy V8's, the Corvair , and probably the Chevy II four cylinder which is half a small block Chevy. Many Honda engines are reverse rotation, or so I am told. Reworking the transaxle may or not be possible, to allow a standard rotation engine to be fitted. This was done on VWs a lot-for mid engine and Corvair swaps and to use Type II transaxles on Baja Bugs (Type IIs used a reduction box at the wheel end), by flipping the ring gear. |
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