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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / April 2007Cummins in a Dodge Van?
Hello All, Just picked up a cherry of an '88 Dodge Ram Wagon (http://www.befumo.com/new_van.htm), which I have every intention of hanging on to for the long haul. While I have no plans to do anything immediately, I was thinking I might just keep my eyes open for a good deal on a wreck with the Cummins 5.9 turbo diesel, from which I could harvest the engine and associated electronics -- transmission, if necessary. So, my question is: Will the cummins fit into the van without at lot of hefty mods? I have access to a shop with a lift, and an expert welder if I have to do some modest fabrication, but I probably wouldn't get into it if it's not largely a bolt-in process. Thanks. Joe >So, my question is: Will the cummins fit into the van without at lot of >hefty mods? No. The engine is too tall for the space alotted. This is the problem DC faced when Ford stuffed the PSD in the Econolines. Its also part of the reason Dodge Vans are no longer sold, and the Dodge/Freightliner Sprinter is, since the Sprinter has a Mercedes diesel in it. >but I probably wouldn't get into it if >it's not largely a bolt-in process. Sadly, Its not. However, someone has probably done it somewhere, so search the web and keep your eyes open. When ya find it, thats the guy to answer the questions ya have. Max Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. (embellished USNavy slogan) My goodness! You really enjoy pain and punishment! Of course it could be done. The first step would be to remove the van body from the 3/4 ton frame. (Stay home if you want to do this with a 1/2 ton) Stiffen the entire frame and suspension mounting points. Now stiffen the front suspension cross beam and upper and lower A arms to take the much larger coil springs. Find space for the huge radiator/ oil cooler/ A/C condenser and Intercooler in the front surround (read Nightmare). Remove the original transmission crossmember and manufacture a new one to mate with the new gearbox and relocate on the existing frame stiffening the mounting point once the location is determined etc. You would have to remanufacture virtually everything and then you would be forced to cut away the entire floor of the van and build a new one. You would be lucky to find space for the front seats, let alone access for maintenance. Consider this a bad dream. Steve > Hello All, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Joe Do you happen to know of any other Diesel that might fit? Maybe a wrecked Benz? > My goodness! You really enjoy pain and punishment! Of course it could > be done. The first step would be to remove the van body from the 3/4 [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> >> Joe >Do you happen to know of any other Diesel that might fit? Maybe a wrecked >Benz? As far as engines that would fit, Perkins and Isuzu would be the places to look, as well as Mercedes. Downside is, all of these will need adaptor plates to mate to the trans. Max Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. (embellished USNavy slogan) >Do you happen to know of any other Diesel that might fit? Maybe a wrecked >Benz? Maybe this one will fit? http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ beekeep >> Do you happen to know of any other Diesel that might fit? Maybe a >> wrecked Benz? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > beekeep I got one of them in my ski boat! its sure fun on the lake, but at 1,660 gallons per hour, it makes for an expensive weekend at "The River" Just wondering... How much would a valve job cost? and what do they use for a starter motor??? >> Maybe this one will fit? >> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ > >Just wondering... How much would a valve job cost? and what do they use for >a starter motor??? A Cummins ISB??? ;-) Pretty funny. I was looking at Fairbanks Morse locomotive engines just today, and made a similar suggestion to my wife. Joe >>Do you happen to know of any other Diesel that might fit? Maybe a wrecked >>Benz? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > beekeep >Do you happen to know of any other Diesel that might fit? Maybe a wrecked >Benz? You might be able to stuff a 4BT into the van. It's shorter but just as tall as the 5.9. The BT is nearly identical to the 5.9 except it's only a 4 cylinder and with a little searching around you could probably pick one up cheaply out of an old curbside delivery truck. Freightliner put tons of those engines on chassis coupled with Allison transmissions that would easilly adapt to a dodge van. the BT is good for about 190 hp but don't expect neck snapping performance out of it unless you jack with the pump and turbo. They're solid reliable (albiet industrious noisey little beasts) performers and deliver tons of chips and snack foods and uniforms daily :) The nice thing about the bt is it's relationship to the 5.9.. they sound the same when running :) Hope this helps! > You might be able to stuff a 4BT into the van. It's shorter but just >as tall as the 5.9. The BT is nearly identical to the 5.9 except it's [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >the bt is it's relationship to the 5.9.. they sound the same when >running :) Hope this helps! If you go back far enough Jeep used them (4BT) in some of their trucks in late 60's and early 70's. One of those rebuilt would be a simple and reliable old motor. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com Well, that was a relatively painless lesson learned. Thanks to all. Okay, here's a less ambitious question/quest: How about port fuel injection from a later model 360? Would I have to change the heads? Thanks again. Joe > Hello All, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Joe Cummins has a smaller 4cyl (shorter & lighter)used in bread trucks that might work in your van,use the tranny from the donor,would be better than adapter plates. >How about port fuel injection from a later model 360? Would I have to >change the heads? Depends on the heads you have, the ports should match, but I'm thinking there is a difference in mounting bolt pattern/angle. If no difference, it should bolt right on. BUT.... you have to bring the entire FI unit, all the sensors, etc. Max Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of any jackass that threatens it. (embellished USNavy slogan) I assume you are referring to the '92 and up magnum style multi port fuel injection, in which case yes you will most likely have to switch to the magnum style cylinder heads due to differences in the intake and exhaust ports. It is possible that you could make the intake fit on the old heads, but I would not recommend it especially considering that the intakes offered by mopar performance for LA series small blocks are specific to either magnum or pre-magnum engines. They would probably know best about compatability between their offerings. However, I have been browsing e-bay motors for magnum heads myself lately and I ran across a place called clearwater cylinder heads in Florida that sells remanufactured magnum heads fully assembled with valves and springs for $175.00 a piece plus shipping and the magnum heads will more or less bolt right on to any LA series small block (273,318, 340, 360). The magnum heads also provide a much better flowing port and larger valves than previous LA heads which will equate to more torque and horsepower. Anyway, hope this helps! Thanks! That's what I wanted to know. Joe >I assume you are referring to the '92 and up magnum style multi port fuel > injection, in which case yes you will most likely have to switch to the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > much better flowing port and larger valves than previous LA heads which > will equate to more torque and horsepower. Anyway, hope this helps! |
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