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Roy - 28 May 2005 17:38 GMT

I know Denny, get a big one so I can get my fat a.s into it. Still I need
some info on good brands, what to avoid, what sanitizing products to use.
I'm in MA so it gets cold in the winter and I want year round use.

Roy

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Denny - 28 May 2005 19:10 GMT

I wasn't gonna say a thing. But since you started it, they don't callem hot
tubs for you, they're called ponds..

<BFG>

Denny

>I know Denny, get a big one so I can get my fat a.s into it. Still I need
>some info on good brands, what to avoid, what sanitizing products to use.
>I'm in MA so it gets cold in the winter and I want year round use.
>
> Roy

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Roy - 28 May 2005 19:45 GMT

>I wasn't gonna say a thing. But since you started it, they don't callem hot
>tubs for you, they're called ponds..
>
> <BFG>
>
> Denny

As long as it is heated and my back feels better ya can call it any friggin'
thing ya want!

Damn smartass rabbit.
<G>

Roy

>>I know Denny, get a big one so I can get my fat a.s into it. Still I need
>>some info on good brands, what to avoid, what sanitizing products to use.
>>I'm in MA so it gets cold in the winter and I want year round use.
>>
>> Roy

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Mike Simmons - 29 May 2005 02:04 GMT

Hot tub?? Hot Tub??? Hot Tub???? and y'all give me sh.t about heated
leather seats?!

HA!

;^)

Mike

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TBone - 29 May 2005 18:18 GMT

Are you talking about a hot tub (big tank of hot still water) or a spa
(pumps, jets, and all of the fun stuff)./

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> I know Denny, get a big one so I can get my fat a.s into it. Still I need
> some info on good brands, what to avoid, what sanitizing products to use.
> I'm in MA so it gets cold in the winter and I want year round use.
>
> Roy

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mac davis - 31 May 2005 16:30 GMT

I won't recommend brands, as they are probably different on the right coast..

Some tips we got from the guy that we bought ours from: (after talking to
several places that were rip offs)

Don't buy more spa than you need... average number of people in a spa at a time
(after 1st month or so) is ONE..

Get them to throw in or discount accessories like steps, side attached bar,
insulated cover, etc...

They should provide you with at least a started kit of chemicals, floater,
etc...

If propane is reasonably priced there, go that way if affordable, if not go 220v
if possible..
Ours can be wired for 11v or 220v and we chose 110v.. should have gone 22, as it
is actually a bit more economical and with 110v the heater (electric) won't run
when the jets are on "high"..

We've found that after 4 years of experimenting, the less chemicals you use, the
better... started out following the directions and using bromide, ph up, ph
down, anti foam, shock, iron inhibitor, etc., etc...
My wife read up on it and found the magic words "parts per million", the amount
of anything that your spa water actually absorbs.. we weren't sitting in water,
it was a chemical bath..

Now, we use a bromide floater with a few tablets in it. (it holds about a dozen)
this keeps the water sanitary...
Our spa is a 4 seat model and holds a little more than 300 gallons of water...
WAY cheaper and better for you to use more water and less chemicals..

I ran pvc pipe from the sink in the garage to the spa, and "top it off" a lot...
over flow it for 10 or 15 minutes, with hot in winter and cold in summer (we use
it year round, 102 in winter, 70 in summer)
When folks get into the tub, they displace water and it over flows... you top it
off later, and the water stays pretty fresh and you don't have that toxic smell
from all the expensive chemicals.. YMMV

We got it because we thought it would be fun to have folks over and kick back in
the spa... didn't plan much use other than that..
Turns out that most folks that we know don't want to hassle with suits, towels,
changing, etc... but we've been surprised at how much we use it.. during the
winter, I have morning coffee in the spa to loosen up the ol' body... and it's a
great way to unwind with the wife before bed... you'll love it, bro..

mac

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TBone - 31 May 2005 18:08 GMT

> >I know Denny, get a big one so I can get my fat a.s into it. Still I need
> >some info on good brands, what to avoid, what sanitizing products to use.
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> over flow it for 10 or 15 minutes, with hot in winter and cold in summer (we use
> it year round, 102 in winter, 70 in summer)

Why do you drop it so low in the summer? I used to lower the temp in the
summer as well but only down to 98 from 101 in the winter. It really is
amazing how much of a difference a few degrees make.

> When folks get into the tub, they displace water and it over flows... you top it
> off later, and the water stays pretty fresh and you don't have that toxic smell
> from all the expensive chemicals.. YMMV

That is the advantage of a larger spa, it isn't so easy to overflow it but
as you said, they do cost more to run and maintain.

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mac davis - 01 Jun 2005 16:21 GMT

<snip>

>> I ran pvc pipe from the sink in the garage to the spa, and "top it off" a
>lot...
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>summer as well but only down to 98 from 101 in the winter. It really is
>amazing how much of a difference a few degrees make.

well, the pool is usually about 80 to 88 degrees, unless we drain and fill it
weekly... the 100+ degree days just over heat it...
It's nice to just sit in cooler water in the spa and cool off.. (I checked with
my wife, she said that it was set at 78 last summer)

>> When folks get into the tub, they displace water and it over flows... you
>top it
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>That is the advantage of a larger spa, it isn't so easy to overflow it but
>as you said, they do cost more to run and maintain.

yeah, we figure that at a little over 300 gallons, we can drain it onto the lawn
if we have to and refill it in a day, and the grass has to be watered anyway..

mac

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TBone - 01 Jun 2005 17:43 GMT

> <snip>
> >> I ran pvc pipe from the sink in the garage to the spa, and "top it off" a
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> It's nice to just sit in cooler water in the spa and cool off.. (I checked with
> my wife, she said that it was set at 78 last summer)

Oh yea, I forgot where you live. It still seems strange to get in the spa
to "cool off", LOL.

> >> When folks get into the tub, they displace water and it over flows... you
> >top it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> yeah, we figure that at a little over 300 gallons, we can drain it onto the lawn
> if we have to and refill it in a day, and the grass has to be watered anyway..

That is what I used to do with mine (4 times a year) although at 450
gallons, it took a while to drain it. If I started early enough in the
morning, I could get it drained, cleaned, refilled, and back up to temp in
time to use it before going to bed. I never heard of a propane heated unit
like you were talking to Roy about. They may just not be available in the
north east due to the cold winters. I must say that I miss mine now that I
moved and am looking foward to getting a new one, hopefully by the fall.

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mac davis - 02 Jun 2005 16:14 GMT

<snip>

>> It's nice to just sit in cooler water in the spa and cool off.. (I checked
>with my wife, she said that it was set at 78 last summer)
>
>Oh yea, I forgot where you live. It still seems strange to get in the spa
>to "cool off", LOL.

yeah, it's that or turn it off and drain it for the summer... when it's 75
degrees out at 10 pm, you don't have a lot of folks climbing into 102 degree
water.. lol

It works great, since we have our entertainment center on the patio, and you can
see and hear the tv from the spa..

>That is what I used to do with mine (4 times a year) although at 450
>gallons, it took a while to drain it. If I started early enough in the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>north east due to the cold winters. I must say that I miss mine now that I
>moved and am looking foward to getting a new one, hopefully by the fall.

I use a "clear water pump" from Harbor freight... drains it pretty low in about
45 minutes..

Most of the larger spa here and all of the commercial ones (resorts, hotels,
etc.) are propane or natural gas... have to be fuel oil on the right coast, I
guess..

We've been shopping for a spa for the house we're building in Baja.. best deal
yet is about 250 gallons and propane fired... has to be fairly light because
it's going on the roof.. the contractor will be running water to the roof plus
propane bibs for the spa and bbq..

mac

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TBone - 02 Jun 2005 18:49 GMT

> <snip>
> >> It's nice to just sit in cooler water in the spa and cool off.. (I checked
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> degrees out at 10 pm, you don't have a lot of folks climbing into 102 degree
> water.. lol

I would suspect not. I set mine down to around 98 in the summer because I
still prefer it warm over cold. I just bring plenty to drink with me when I
get in.

> It works great, since we have our entertainment center on the patio, and you can
> see and hear the tv from the spa..

My spa had a built in stereo with a CD player. As for the TV, I could see
one through the kitchen window but couldn't hear it when the spa was
running. I was going to wire sound for it out to the tub from the TV but we
moved before I got the chance. Just as well, I can get rather addicted to
TV during the winter and if I could watch and hear it from the tub, I would
never get out, lol.

The newer tubs that I have been looking at deliver sound through the tub
wall rather than the external marine speakers that mine had. This looks
like a great idea since it appears to keep the music in the tub, especially
if you want to use it late at night like I do. Sound carries very well at
night.

> >That is what I used to do with mine (4 times a year) although at 450
> >gallons, it took a while to drain it. If I started early enough in the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I use a "clear water pump" from Harbor freight... drains it pretty low in about
> 45 minutes..

That sounds like a great idea. I will have to look into that when I get the
next one.

> Most of the larger spa here and all of the commercial ones (resorts, hotels,
> etc.) are propane or natural gas... have to be fuel oil on the right coast, I
> guess..

I have no idea what the commercial ones use, I would suspect NG but most of
the private ones that I looked at use electric heat at 220V.

> We've been shopping for a spa for the house we're building in Baja.. best deal
> yet is about 250 gallons and propane fired... has to be fairly light because
> it's going on the roof.. the contractor will be running water to the roof plus
> propane bibs for the spa and bbq..

My last tub was 1000 lb empty and held 450 gallons of water so it would not
be a good candidate for your application unless you didn't mind it moving
itself into the basement :-) I am looking for a similar size again or maybe
slightly smaller. Since it will be on the ground, I am not all that worried
about the weight. I will also go with 220V electric again because it is
just easier and electric rates are pretty good here.

I would also suggest to anyone looking to buy one, if you can, try it before
you buy it. Unless you get in it, preferably while it has water in it, you
have no idea how comfortable the different seating positions or jets will
be. I bought my first one without getting in it wet and although I did
enjoy it, the lounge position which was the reason I bought that particular
model, turned out to be the least comfortable position in the tub (too flat
and poor jet placement) and I almost never used that position. The same
model without it would have give me an extra seating position and saved me
some money as well. Next time I will know better.

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mac davis - 03 Jun 2005 16:36 GMT

>My spa had a built in stereo with a CD player. As for the TV, I could see
>one through the kitchen window but couldn't hear it when the spa was
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>if you want to use it late at night like I do. Sound carries very well at
>night.

We both smoke, and about 5 or 6 years ago we decided not to smoke in the house
anymore.. we figured that we'd smoke less that way..
Within 2 months, the entertainment center had moved from a wall to inside the
patio doors, then turned TOWARD the patio doors, and finally into an outdoor one
on wheels with a 34" screen, dvd with surround, etc... we pretty much moved the
whole living room out onto the front patio, and between the pool, spa and all,
it' and the shop have become the neighborhood coffee stops..

>My last tub was 1000 lb empty and held 450 gallons of water so it would not
>be a good candidate for your application unless you didn't mind it moving
>itself into the basement :-)

No, the builder would probably add several thousand bucks worth of support
beams.. *sigh*

>I would also suggest to anyone looking to buy one, if you can, try it before
>you buy it. Unless you get in it, preferably while it has water in it, you
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>model without it would have give me an extra seating position and saved me
>some money as well. Next time I will know better.

EXACTLY!! we almost bought the one that was just 2 lounges, but ended up with 3
"seats" and a lounge... it never gets used because everyone is either too tall
to be comfortable or too light to lay in it and not get blown off on high
jets... no lounger in the next one... very good point, T..

mac

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TBone - 08 Jun 2005 02:03 GMT

> >My spa had a built in stereo with a CD player. As for the TV, I could see
> >one through the kitchen window but couldn't hear it when the spa was
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> We both smoke, and about 5 or 6 years ago we decided not to smoke in the house
> anymore.. we figured that we'd smoke less that way..

LOL, I used to think that as well but all it really did was keep me outside
more which is not a whole lot of fun in the winter. Fortunately a past
Governor in NJ put a steep tax on cigarettes which gave me the $$$$$
motivation I needed to quit.

> Within 2 months, the entertainment center had moved from a wall to inside the
> patio doors, then turned TOWARD the patio doors, and finally into an outdoor one
> on wheels with a 34" screen, dvd with surround, etc... we pretty much moved the
> whole living room out onto the front patio, and between the pool, spa and all,
> it' and the shop have become the neighborhood coffee stops..

That sounds great. Consider yourself lucky to live in that kind of
neighborhood as they are getting very rare, at least here on the east coast.
Then again, it seems that you are the catalyst creating that type of
friendly environment so perhaps it is the neighborhood who is lucky.

> >My last tub was 1000 lb empty and held 450 gallons of water so it would not
> >be a good candidate for your application unless you didn't mind it moving
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> to be comfortable or too light to lay in it and not get blown off on high
> jets... no lounger in the next one... very good point, T..

Thanks, even I am capable of learning something :-) I did see one that had
a lounger that was more of a cross between a lounger and a conventional
seat. Your upper body is more upright to keep you from being blown out of
it and it has enough length for taller people. Being of average height, the
length is not as important. I still want to see it operating so that I will
know what the jets will do. One thing that I want this time is fully
independently controlled pumps. The last one I had you could not start pump
2 without starting pump 1 and even then, pump 2 was a single speed pump that
could not be started unless you had pump 1 running on high. I suspect that
it was done that way because it didn't have a separate circulation pump and
used pump 1 for that. Since I don't plan on buying on until at least the
fall, I still have plenty of time to look and get it right.

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mac davis - 08 Jun 2005 16:45 GMT

<snip>

> between the pool, spa and all, it and the shop have become the neighborhood coffee stops..
>
>That sounds great. Consider yourself lucky to live in that kind of
>neighborhood as they are getting very rare, at least here on the east coast.
>Then again, it seems that you are the catalyst creating that type of
>friendly environment so perhaps it is the neighborhood who is lucky.

yeah, the neighborhood is great... we would have moved years ago, but we really
like living in the neighborhood..
I haven't seen this kind of neighborhood since I was a kid... everyone on the
block knows everyone else (very rare in Calif.), raises/yells at the kids on the
block, loans tools around, etc..
On most evenings, you can find a group on lawn chairs in someone's driveway..
kind of like I remember folks on front porches when I was a kid.. it's pretty
cool..

mac

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Roy - 01 Jun 2005 04:01 GMT

>>I know Denny, get a big one so I can get my fat a.s into it. Still I need
>>some info on good brands, what to avoid, what sanitizing products to use.
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
> it's a
> great way to unwind with the wife before bed... you'll love it, bro..

Thanks for the info bro. The wife is into getting one, fine with me as it
will probably be good for my back.

Roy

> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing

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mac davis - 01 Jun 2005 16:26 GMT

<snip>

>Thanks for the info bro. The wife is into getting one, fine with me as it
>will probably be good for my back.
>
>Roy

you'll find that you use it a lot, bro... especially on cold mornings...

I feel your pain... I have a fused disc and on those winter mornings when things
like putting on socks or tying shoes is a hassle, I sit in the tub for about 10
min. and I can move pretty good..
An advantage of a 300 gal spa and available hot water is that we can set the
temp to about 95 and just throw about 10 gal of hot water into it before we get
in.. brings it up to about 103 or so and (on the left coast) is a lot less
expensive than using electricity to keep it at 101 or so 24/7..

The advantage of propane is that you only heat it when you want to get in,
unless it's a real big spa, but our only option was electric heat.. (and it's
very energy efficient, which means bringing it from 70 to 100 is a 24 hour
thing)

mac

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Dale Yonz - 07 Jun 2005 08:15 GMT

> Thanks for the info bro. The wife is into getting one, fine with me as it
> will probably be good for my back.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>> Please remove splinters before emailing

Also don't forget the wine :)
dale

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mac davis - 07 Jun 2005 16:12 GMT

>> Thanks for the info bro. The wife is into getting one, fine with me as it
>> will probably be good for my back.
>>
>> Roy

>Also don't forget the wine :)
>dale

with Roy, it might be whine, Dale.. *eg*

mac

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