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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / July 2005Want to increase towing power?
I have an 04 1500 Ram 4x4 5.7 hemi quad with swb. The gears are 3.53. I bought this without knowing anything about towing and at the time only intended on towing a pop-up trailer which we never felt behind us. We upgraded to a 25 foot camper approx 5,000.lbs. When in the hilly areas we noticed that we really have to work to get up some of the hills. We have only modified the truck with a K&N air intake kit so far. What should we do to give this truck a higher towing capacity? I have heard changing the rear gears would help? How much would something like this cost? Would my fuel mileage suffer? I have 12,000 miles on the truck now and would get screwed over by trading it for a 2500 ram. Thanks Howard > I have an 04 1500 Ram 4x4 5.7 hemi quad with swb. The gears are 3.53. I > bought this without knowing anything about towing and at the time only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mileage suffer? I have 12,000 miles on the truck now and would get screwed > over by trading it for a 2500 ram. Thanks Howard Changing rear gears is certainly the best bang for the buck. 3.92 should be fine, but if you live where speeds are rarely >65mph'ish, you might even consider 4.11. As to cost, that can vary. To simply change the gears, you're probably talking about $200-300 per axle. The front axle is usually a little more, because it's tougher to get to. If you don't already have LSD, you might consider that. Dodge trucks with the corporate 9.5" rear are pretty famous for lunching the carrier bearings at 60-80K miles. If you take it to a shop for a gear change, have them put some quality bearings in there. Then you never have to worry about it.  Signature.boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project .boB,thanks,but besides being the acronym for a drug what is LSD? Also you mean even though I might never tow in 4x4 mode I would need to change gears in front also? What would changing gears up to 3.92 due to my mileage? Also by changing the gears does this mean that the engine won't need to "race up" as much to get up the hills. With the K&N intake my wife and I can barely talk to each other when I rev up for the hills. Sorry I ask so many questions ,but I know very little about trucks,engines,running gear. Thanks Howard. >> I have an 04 1500 Ram 4x4 5.7 hemi quad with swb. The gears are 3.53. I >> bought this without knowing anything about towing and at the time only [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > for a gear change, have them put some quality bearings in there. Then you > never have to worry about it. Limited Slip Differential.... Lower gears give you more "grunt" and will get the load moving faster... they will also make the truck run at higher RPM, so your hiway mileage will decrease... Some folks say that lower gears raise the MPG in town, because the truck doesn't have to work as hard to get moving??? IMHO, the K&N is doing what it does best, making noise, and what it does even better, letting more dirt into the engine.. other than that, it's worthless.. On the other hand, I have to wonder if you're towing up grades in OD?? We have a 99 ram quad cab, 2wd, auto, 5.9 gas, 3.55 rear end... we haul a travel that's 5,000# dry, probably close to 6,500# loaded with all our crap, and it takes a major grade to slow us down a lot... you have more horsepower and more torque with the hemi, so you should out tow us by a big margin.. Does your Ram have tow-haul mode? Are you using it? A General rule of thumb is that if the truck is "hunting", or up and down shifting a lot, you should have OD locked out... We always tow without OD, figuring that you can't hurt it to lock out OD, and our MPG is the same or better with it locked out... YMMV >.boB,thanks,but besides being the acronym for a drug what is LSD? Also you >mean even though I might never tow in 4x4 mode I would need to change gears [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> for a gear change, have them put some quality bearings in there. Then you >> never have to worry about it. mac Please remove splinters before emailing > A General rule of thumb is that if the truck is "hunting", or up and down > shifting a lot, you should have OD locked out... > We always tow without OD, figuring that you can't hurt it to lock out OD, and > our MPG is the same or better with it locked out... YMMV this statement is probably the best bet in my opinion if you look at most owners manuals it will say something to the effect that if you tow or haul anything over a certain weight (practically any trailer or anything with any size in the back) that they recomend you use tow/haul or o/d off. now as far as your truck having the power to pull 5,000 lbs?? id think you would be fine. a good 1/2 ton should be able to handle a camper of that size no problems. that's my 2 cents Ok,that seems to be the general consensus. It isn't hunting for gears and I do use the tow/haul mode. I just seem to really have to put my foot in it to get up the roads in our White Mts. (NH) Maybe the K&N air intake is just making it more noticeable to me now. On the flat stuff it does great. Thanks everyone. >> A General rule of thumb is that if the truck is "hunting", or up and down >> shifting a lot, you should have OD locked out... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > that's my 2 cents A lot of what you're feeling, ("I just seem to really have to put my foot in it to get up the roads in our White Mts.") is quite normal for towing.. you just get used to it.. When we were towing a little tent trailer, we'd zoom up grades... but when we switched to a 6,000 pound (loaded) trailer, we pretty much doubled the weight of the truck and added 4 wheels... you're not going to pull hills the same towing as you do not towing, unless you have 2 or 3 times the power that the truck need to move itself.. We went to the coast for the weekend, and that involves pulling 3 or 4 small (1,500 foot or so) hills... one is a 3 mile, 7% grade... we did about 40 mph up it at about 3,500 rpm... no big thing, we made a lot of noise going slow for a few miles, the engine and tranny temp stayed ok, and we went down the other side at the legal limit.. My guess is that if we had a K&N (or just NO filter) we would sound like we were doing about 6,000 rpm.. lol The thing that helped us the most wasn't mechanical, it was mental: We had to get into the mind set that this was a Recreational Ve chicle, so we should relax and enjoy the trip... if we're in a hurry, we leave the trailer home and stay in motels.. YMMV >Ok,that seems to be the general consensus. It isn't hunting for gears and I >do use the tow/haul mode. I just seem to really have to put my foot in it to [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> that's my 2 cents mac Please remove splinters before emailing > .boB,thanks,but besides being the acronym for a drug what is LSD? Also > you mean even though I might never tow in 4x4 mode I would need to change [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ask so many questions ,but I know very little about trucks,engines,running > gear. Thanks Howard. You'd to want to change the front as well. Why make a 2wd out of a 4wd. Changing to 3:90 or 4:10's will cut into you fuel economy. Throw out the K$N and put the stock filter back, that way you can hear your wife while she's telling you that you bought the wrong truck.<G> What do you mean by "race up"? You might want to see just how bad things would go if you were to trade up to a 2500 with the Cummins. You are going to be tossing a grand anyway at this one and then you probably won't be totally happy with it. Right now there are some decent deals around. Roy > .boB,thanks,but besides being the acronym for a drug what is LSD? Also you > mean even though I might never tow in 4x4 mode I would need to change gears > in front also? The front and rear gear ratios need to match. Otherwise, when in 4x4, one set of wheels will try to turn faster than other. Does strange things to the handling. > What would changing gears up to 3.92 due to my mileage? Depends on the type of driving you do. If most of your driving is 65 mph or less, it may actually improve it by keeping the engine closer to it's power peak. I would expect your towing mileage to improve or stay the same, because you won't need as much throttle opening to do the same job. OTOH, if you live in Montana, and routinely cruise along at 85 mph, changing gears will probably decrease mileage. > Also by changing the gears does this mean that the engine won't need to > "race up" as much to get up the hills. Depends. Many times the rpm's climb dramatically because you've downshifted in to 2nd to make the hills. With better gearing, you'll only be down in to 3rd. > With the K&N intake my wife and I can > barely talk to each other when I rev up for the hills. Over the years, a lot of testing has been done on Dodge engine to see what makes more power, and what doesn't. A good open element air cleaner was one of the few items that did (although not very much). I wouldn't get rid of it, but I would figure out a way to shroud it to prevent the noise intrusion into the cab. I have one on my truck, and although I can hear it, it certainly isn't intrusive. Are you sure the noise is from the air cleaner? Try putting the stock parts back on and run the same route. >Sorry I ask so many > questions ,but I know very little about trucks,engines,running gear. That's OK. We all gotta learn some time. For reference, here's a little chart to compare speed and rpm's in different gear ratios: Gear FDR Speed 1st 2.4 8.52 27.9 2nd 1.47 5.2185 45.6 3rd 1 3.55 67 4th 0.82 2.911 81.7 Rear 3.55 Tire 32 RPM 2500 ------------------------------------ Gear FDR Speed 1st 2.4 9.408 25.2 2nd 1.47 5.7624 41.3 3rd 1 3.92 60.7 4th 0.82 3.2144 74 Rear 3.92 Tire 32 RPM 2500 If you want the spreadsheet, let me know. Signature.boB 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged! 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project > .boB,thanks,but besides being the acronym for a drug what is LSD? LSD stands for limited slip differential, sorta like GM's posi rear. While helpful for traction on dry and somewhat slippy roads, it can cause fishtailing on wet roads in turns until you get used to it. > Also you > mean even though I might never tow in 4x4 mode I would need to change gears > in front also? Without question. Your 4WD is not going to work very well if both axles are always trying to turn the wheels at different speeds. > What would changing gears up to 3.92 due to my mileage? In the city, it may actually improve but on the highway without towing, it is going to drop. The amount really depends on how fast you like to drive. > Also by changing the gears does this mean that the engine won't need to > "race up" as much to get up the hills. No, because it will always be running faster and have more torque due to the lower gearing. > With the K&N intake my wife and I can > barely talk to each other when I rev up for the hills. The easy answer to that is to lose the K&N. You will find that it really isn't doing all that much for you. Sorry I ask so many > questions ,but I know very little about trucks,engines,running gear. > Thanks Howard. That is the reason for these groups. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving Actually T-Bone,although I have limited mechanical skills, I did try sky diving and liked it very much. It can be very expensive though! Thanks Howard >> .boB,thanks,but besides being the acronym for a drug what is LSD? > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > That is the reason for these groups. At 5000 lbs you are actually the maximum towing capcity of 4900 lbs unless you have the tow package then max capcity is 8300 lbs. SignatureCoasty SEMPAR PARATUS (ALWAYS READY) Remove The SPOOGE To Reply 5000 lbs. Is that the empty weight or after you have loaded all your stuff into he trailer, eg water, propane, food, beer, clothes, etc. ?? > At 5000 lbs you are actually the maximum towing capcity of 4900 lbs unless > you have the tow package then max capcity is 8300 lbs. > I have an 04 1500 Ram 4x4 5.7 hemi quad with swb. The gears are 3.53. I > bought this without knowing anything about towing and at the time only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > mileage suffer? I have 12,000 miles on the truck now and would get screwed > over by trading it for a 2500 ram. Thanks Howard I have a 04 Durango Hemi and pull about 5,000lbs loaded. It pulls it with ease. Up steep hills I drop it to 2nd and tow up them at about 45mph. To me thats pretty darn good up very steep grades. >> I have an 04 1500 Ram 4x4 5.7 hemi quad with swb. The gears are 3.53. >> I bought this without knowing anything about towing and at the time [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > with ease. Up steep hills I drop it to 2nd and tow up them at about > 45mph. To me thats pretty darn good up very steep grades. I've got an 04 Durango Hemi also, 2WD, 5 speed auto. With the tow/haul engaged should it be shifting into fifth gear? The manual says it will stay out of overdrive but is OD different than fifth? I tried using the cruise control while towing, at seventy mph it wouldn't stay in any gear longer than a few seconds (kept shifting up/down). I'm probably towing close to 6000 lbs., mostly tow on level terrain to slightly rolling. I'd like to be able to control the shift points, maybe keep it out of fifth altogether. Thanks, B A R >> I have a 04 Durango Hemi and pull about 5,000lbs loaded. It pulls it >> with ease. Up steep hills I drop it to 2nd and tow up them at about >> 45mph. To me thats pretty darn good up very steep grades. > I've got an 04 Durango Hemi also, 2WD, 5 speed auto. With the tow/haul > engaged should it be shifting into fifth gear? The manual says it will [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fifth altogether. > Thanks, B A R When in tow/haul mode it locks out 5th gear. I believe 4th is still OD and 3rd is 1:1. On flat terrain mine will sometimes shift to 4th but often stays in 3rd. It does not shift back and forth. 4th can pull my trailer at 65mph. Any slower and it's bogged down and struggles. It really needs to stay in 3rd when towing unless very flat and over 60mph. Up steep hills it will shift back and forth between 3rd and 2nd so I manually shift to 2nd on the steep grades. There have been some transmission programming changes so you might check with your dealer as to what you already have. |
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