Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / July 2005
Chevy or Dodge or Ford 1 ton with diesel
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Preston Allen - 17 Jul 2005 01:58 GMT I am trying to decide which truck to go with and was hopeing I could get some advice from the group. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to any of the diesel engines offered by the different mnufacturers?
Lorne - 17 Jul 2005 04:20 GMT Drive a Dodge and be happy for ever!! :-)
>I am trying to decide which truck to go with and was hopeing I could get >some advice from the group. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to >any of the diesel engines offered by the different mnufacturers? Max Dodge - 17 Jul 2005 06:06 GMT The Ford diesel is a Navistar, and has some problems since its introduction. The GM diesel is a joint venture with Isuzu, and is an aluminum headed design, which can be problematic. The most important difference, regardless of the design details is the main design feature. The Dodge has a Cummins inline six, the others are a V8.
Ford:
Navistar V8 7th(?) year of manufacture: has had seal problems on the turbo, and generally is not the leader of the pack in this race. Not a terrible engine, and is a reputable manufacturer. Transmission is typical Ford design, which is to say, more complex and more electronics than really needs to be. Result is that it can be a bastard to fix if it fails.
Chevy:
Isuzu designed V8, 5year of manufacture: Aluminum heads, which are a problem on gasoline engines, are applied to the high compression world of diesel, with mixed results. One thing is sure, just as in the gasoline world, the aluminum head on an iron block is a point of gasket failure, and the added stress of high compression is no help. Transmission is the much talked about Allison, but word is running around (with some reliability) that the Alllison can fail at the 60k mark due to various reasons. I suspect this may be for reasons other than design, but this Allison isn't as good as the Allison reputation from what I'm hearing.
Dodge:
Cummins ISBe, with more than 20 years of manufacture starting with the B5.9, then BTA 5.9, then ISB, and now ISBe: Engine design is from a pioneering manufacturer that makes only diesel engines. Design has had 20+ years of evolution. Inline six is design type that is proven to make the most torque from the smallest displacement. Engine is heavy in all respects, and has a longer life expectancy to first major overhaul than the others. Trans is the proven 48RE, which has 20 years of manufacture on the OD unit, plus 20 more for the main transmission.
Overall, if you plan on towing a lot, the Dodge is the one to get.
 Signature Max
Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life.
>I am trying to decide which truck to go with and was hopeing I could get >some advice from the group. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to >any of the diesel engines offered by the different mnufacturers? Greg Surratt - 17 Jul 2005 12:47 GMT > The Ford diesel is a Navistar, and has some problems since its > introduction. The GM diesel is a joint venture with Isuzu, and is an > aluminum headed design, which can be problematic. The most important > difference, regardless of the design details is the main design feature. > The Dodge has a Cummins inline six, the others are a V8. And since the Cummins is an inline 6, it has fewer moving parts (read "points of failure") than either of the other two.
Greg
DE - 17 Jul 2005 13:41 GMT >> The Ford diesel is a Navistar, and has some problems since its >> introduction. The GM diesel is a joint venture with Isuzu, and is an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Greg Also worth noting is the fact that the heavy road horses don't as a rule use v8 diesels. They all for the most part use the inline 6. I've been told that the v8's were tried but had cooling problems in the rear cylinders. That forced the engineers to up the waterpump flows which in turn led to increased galvanic corrision problems.....
Anyone check their coolant on the cummins? Is it an issue? DE
Greg Surratt - 17 Jul 2005 18:45 GMT > Also worth noting is the fact that the heavy road horses don't > as a rule use v8 diesels. They all for the most part use the inline [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Anyone check their coolant on the cummins? Is it an issue? > DE Drove a Cummins V8 years ago for a little while. Biggest POS I ever ran in a big rig. I know what the advertised numbers said, but it just didn't have the grunt that any of the inline 6's had. My next engine was a KTA-600 Inline 6 with dual turbos in series. Dynamite engine!
I have a very, very slow leak in my Ram at the driver's side front. Otherwise, I change the coolant on the factory schedule every 30,000 miles.
And for Paul O.:
I was a die-hard GM fan for gas engines. When it came time to trade last time, I didn't buy a Dodge Ram, I bought a Cummins engine - it just happened to come in a Dodge wrapper. ;-)
The wife and I have agreed that a new truck and fiver will be in order to start our full-timing retirement in 2008. I may (gasp) consider the GM for some of the creature comforts, but the Cummins will still be a major factor.
Greg
Paul O. - 17 Jul 2005 14:08 GMT Good info Max Dodge. As a lurker here, I would just like to say that I've always been a Ford guy when it comes to trucks(gassers). If I were wanting a diesel to tow with, I'd switch to Dodge in a heartbeat. That engine is the only proven one as far as I'm concerned, and it's been a good one.
 Signature Paul O. oplholik@gmail.com
> The Ford diesel is a Navistar, and has some problems since its > introduction. The GM diesel is a joint venture with Isuzu, and is an [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>some advice from the group. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to >>any of the diesel engines offered by the different mnufacturers? Big Al - 17 Jul 2005 22:05 GMT > The Ford diesel is a Navistar, and has some problems since its > introduction. The GM diesel is a joint venture with Isuzu, and is an [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Overall, if you plan on towing a lot, the Dodge is the one to get. Thought the new Ford 6.0 was Aluminum headed too?? From what I hear the Powerstroke 7.3 was a much better engine.
My big concern would be with automatic transmissions. They all seem to be questionable.
Al 2004 600CTD, 4X4, six speed.
Paul O. - 17 Jul 2005 23:26 GMT > Thought the new Ford 6.0 was Aluminum headed too?? From what I hear the > Powerstroke 7.3 was a much better engine. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Al 2004 600CTD, 4X4, six speed. I've read, possibly here, that a good transmisson shop can make them pretty much bullet proof for about $2500. Not too much more of an investment considering the cost of a nice 1 ton dually diesel. Shouldn't have to do that, but might be worth it for serious towing.
 Signature Paul O. oplholik@gmail.com
TranSurgeon - 18 Jul 2005 00:13 GMT > Thought the new Ford 6.0 was Aluminum headed too?? From what I hear the > Powerstroke 7.3 was a much better engine. > > My big concern would be with automatic transmissions. They all seem to be > questionable. of all the automatics (excluding the Allison), the Ford 4R100 is the better unit
it's now the '5R110', as they started using the OD unit to give an extra gear between first and what used to be 2nd and is now 3rd, under heavy loads
built right, with lots of external cooler and a converter matched to the useage, it's very good
Big Al - 18 Jul 2005 07:10 GMT >> Thought the new Ford 6.0 was Aluminum headed too?? From what I hear the >> Powerstroke 7.3 was a much better engine. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > built right, with lots of external cooler and a converter matched to the > useage, it's very good Interesting. So it shifts 1st, 1st OD, 2ond, 3rd, and od?
Al
craig@metronet.com - 19 Jul 2005 16:31 GMT I have not owned the Ford or Chevrolet (diesel products), so I can't say with any certainly that mechanically they are inferior. I just looked around on the NG's and got the overall opinion of people that did own the respective models. And ... I used a little of my own logic (YIKES!).
This is the conclusion I came to based on what I read and researched:
Ford:
Positives: I love the look of the truck. I've had Fords (gassers) in the past and never really had any trouble with the brand.
Negatives: The Power Stroke is LOUD. It sounds like tin cans being banged together. It's a V8 ... so it has more moving parts. Pricey.
Chevrolet:
Positives: Quiet operation.
Negatives: No matter how good the engine is, GMC and Chevy make a butt-ugly truck and it's expensive. I don't care for Isuzu products. They are a step above a Yugo in my opinion. And since this engine was party designed/engineered by them ... it was an easy decision. Every GM product I have ever owned has been a piece of sh.t.
Dodge:
Positives: Cummins has a great reputation for reliability and longevity. Inline 6 cyl. Fewer moving parts = fewer possible problems. Quiet operation. Great looking truck. Always had decent success with Dodge products.
Negatives: Some negative talk about the tranny (47RE). I have the 48RE and have not experienced any problems and have not read of anyone that has. So, perhaps I waited the right amount of time (for the new and improved tranny).
Hope this helps.
Craig C. 2004 Ram 2500, CRD, 4x4, QC
Slick Willy - 20 Jul 2005 16:08 GMT > Ford: > > Positives: > I love the look of the truck. I've had Fords (gassers) in the past and > never really had any trouble with the brand. The look isn't bad, but everybody has copied the RAM. Hell, my Dakota even copied the RAM <g>
> Negatives: > The Power Stroke is LOUD. It sounds like tin cans being banged > together. It's a V8 ... so it has more moving parts. Pricey. How can this be a negative? Damn, I love the fact that my work truck for the last 4 years has been loud. Loud and obnoxious is why I *LOVE* a diesel. F350 club cab with dual gas tanks and 100 gallon slip tank in the bed. It just screams "Get the hell out of my way !!!" If there was a negative to be had, I would say it was electrical. I've personally had 3 work trucks ( all F350 club cab 8'bed diesel's ) and all have had *minor* electrical issues. I've always taken them to the dealer, and all were resolved, but all had same type of problems. ( cab light not working when doors were open, buzzer not going off when key is in ignition and door is open, interior dash lighs blinking, etc ). Nothing major, but all a PITA.
> Chevrolet: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > designed/engineered by them ... it was an easy decision. Every GM > product I have ever owned has been a piece of sh.t. Although, I don't necessarily agree it's butt-ugly, it's not going to win any styling awards either. I personally know 3 people with the Duramax and they love it. I think the bigger downfall is that they haven't been making the engines as long, so the R&D information is not as vast as what Ford and Dodge have
> Dodge: > > Positives: > Cummins has a great reputation for reliability and longevity. Inline 6 > cyl. Fewer moving parts = fewer possible problems. Quiet operation. > Great looking truck. Always had decent success with Dodge products. I agree with requtation and reliablility, but IMHO, the looks make me want to throw up. In this day and age of one-upping the competition, the front of the truck looks like some jack-a.s took a samuari sward and made it into a snub nose bulldog look. I guess it's my opinion, but I loved the look of the truck 5 years ago, now it just a abortion of the original.
> Negatives: > Some negative talk about the tranny (47RE). I have the 48RE and have > not experienced any problems and have not read of anyone that has. So, > perhaps I waited the right amount of time (for the new and improved > tranny). my useless 2 cents ...
 Signature Regards, Slick Willy
'73 CB 450 '95 XJ 600 '03 FLSTF - parted ways in late July '04 FLHRCI - Entering geezerdom' at a mere 32 ...
Remove the "BenDover" to reply
craig@metronet.com - 20 Jul 2005 17:34 GMT Regarding my comment about the loudness of the Ford ... I guess I should further quailfy it. I do love the sound of a diesel. Something about the glug, glug, glug ...
However, the Ford sounds "tinny". Very high pitched and loud. I prefer the quieter (although not too quiet) and deeper sounds of the Cummins.
Speaking of quiet diesels ... I was with my gal looking at the new Jeep Liberty with the 2.8 CRD in it ... unless you are really listening closely, you can't tell it's a diesel. In fact, she asked me after I fired it up if we were test driving the 3.7.
Craig C.
Trey - 21 Jul 2005 00:48 GMT > Regarding my comment about the loudness of the Ford ... I guess I > should further quailfy it. I do love the sound of a diesel. Something [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > closely, you can't tell it's a diesel. In fact, she asked me after I > fired it up if we were test driving the 3.7. What state are you in?? I hear they were not selling these in CA.. if so.. I would like to take a good hard look at that Diesel too!
craig@metronet.com - 21 Jul 2005 17:26 GMT I'm in Dallas, Texas. They are selling like hotcakes.
Tows 5000 lbs ... and gets 26 mpg (not towing). Can't beat that with a stick! I drove it and it has very smooth acceleration.
I was impressed ... and I'm not easily impressed when it comes to tiny SUV's.
Craig C.
|
|
|