Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / February 2006
"Sweet Home Alabama" Is Pro-segregation, Right?
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03:15:38 GMT - 26 Oct 2005 20:01 GMT The Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Sweet Home Alabama" is supportive of racial segregation, right?
http://www.skynyrd.com/lyrics/70-77/sechelp/soni.html
It criticizes Neil Young for his anti-lynching song "Southern Man", correct? We know that Young and the band got along just fine, but that doesn't alter the lyrics of the song, eh?
Well I heard mister Young sing about her Well, I heard ole Neil put her down Well, I hope Neil Young will remember A Southern man don't need him around anyhow
The lyrics praise George Wallace, the infamous segregationist Alabama governor of the era, in several place, correctamundo?
In Birmingham they love the governor Now we all did what we could do Now Watergate does not bother me Does your conscience bother you? Tell the truth
[...]
Sweet home Alabama Oh sweet home baby Where the skies are so blue And the governor's true Sweet Home Alabama Lordy Lord, I'm coming home to you Yea, yea Montgomery's got the answer
The only possible defense is that the lyrics were written in character, am I right or am I right? But the band never claimed that this was the case, is that accurate?
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com> Right?
G.T. Tyson - 26 Oct 2005 22:25 GMT > The Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Sweet Home Alabama" is supportive of racial > segregation, right? Oh, don't be deliberately stupid. The South has been trying to shake off that whole image for years now. Every now and then someone with a vested interest in keeping racism alive (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton being the most publicized examples)will spout off about it and get people all riled up for no good reason. The Neil Young song referenced in the Skynyrd lyric made it sound as if such things were still occurring. Skynyrd were basically dissing Neil Young for dredging up those embarrassing chapters when most folks here would like nothing better than to put it all behind us. I've lived here all my life and have never witnessed a cross burning or lynching or any KKK activity of any kind. There are, of course, occasional exceptions, but the perpetrators end up doing hard time in the Big House. Most of us, with the exception of a nearly-nonexistant minority of hardasses who pose no real threat to anyone except when they're drunk, would like to greet the future without that particular millstone around our necks. We're not ALL potbellied tobacco-chewing rednecks here, and anyone who says otherwise is just as guilty of racism (and profiling) as someone who throws around the word "nigger" carelessly.
All that sh.t was YESTERDAY. This is TODAY. Tomorrow, hopefully, will be even better.
gtt
Paul - 26 Oct 2005 22:47 GMT Right on GT, I am from Jacksonville,Fla. and now live in Orange Park, I pass the road that Ronnie Van Zant lived on twice a day, so it's still very cool with me. Paul
>> The Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Sweet Home Alabama" is supportive of racial >> segregation, right? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > gtt John - 27 Oct 2005 03:27 GMT It's not only "Southern Man" they were referring to. They were also responding to "Alabama". Neil Young and Ronnie Van Zant always mentioned how each others music influenced them. If Ronnie Van Zant hated Neil Young, you wouldn't have seen him wearing a Neil Young tee shirt so often. Skynrd was trying to push the "southern" personna of the band. What better way than to hang a Confederate flag on the stage and to lyrically (is that a word?) attack someone who was criticizing the pre civil rights movement south. By the way, he was wearing a Neil Young tee shirt when the plane crashed.
Neil Young can easily be compared to people like Jackson, Sharpton, and Dylan who look for problems so they can put their loud mouths to use and have a reason to be noticed. Skynrd capitalized on Neil Young's mission in life.
They probably included the lyrics "In Birmingham they love the governor " because In Birmingham they loved the governor. Seperate reality from the acting that goes on in the entertainment industry.
John
03:15:38 GMT - 27 Oct 2005 17:03 GMT John <jmstrks@cox.net> did this:
> It's not only "Southern Man" they were referring to. They were also > responding to "Alabama". Neil Young and Ronnie Van Zant always > mentioned how each others music influenced them. If Ronnie Van Zant > hated Neil Young, you wouldn't have seen him wearing a Neil Young tee > shirt so often. The question isn't whether Young and van Zant got along. By most accounts they did. The question is whether the song "Sweet Home Alabama" is pro-segregation.
> Skynrd was trying to push the "southern" personna of > the band. What better way than to hang a Confederate flag on the stage > and to lyrically (is that a word?) attack someone who was criticizing > the pre civil rights movement south. ...and to praise one of the primary foes of the civil rights movement.
> By the way, he was wearing a Neil Young tee shirt when the plane crashed. > > Neil Young can easily be compared to people like Jackson, Sharpton, and > Dylan who look for problems so they can put their loud mouths to use > and have a reason to be noticed. Skynrd capitalized on Neil Young's > mission in life. This world would be a much better place if certain people would just stop looking for problems. When has publicizing problems ever helped anyone? I mean, so what if whites and blacks couldn't marry? The skies were still blue. Can't the likes of Young concentrate on the blueness of the skies?
> They probably included the lyrics "In Birmingham they love the governor > " because In Birmingham they loved the governor. Why did they include the lines "The governor's true" and "Montgomery's got the answer"?
> Seperate reality from the acting that goes on in the entertainment > industry. I do, which is why I haven't complained about a bunch of Floridians singing about "Sweet Home Alabama".
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com>
03:15:38 GMT - 27 Oct 2005 16:49 GMT "G.T. Tyson" <gtyson@nc.rr.com> did this:
>> The Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Sweet Home Alabama" is supportive of racial >> segregation, right? > > Oh, don't be deliberately stupid. If I'm being deliberately stupid, how come the rest of your message offers precisely zero arguments for why the song isn't supportive of racial segregation? Instead you talk about the accuracy and timeliness of Neil Young's song, as if those things had any bearing on the matter.
But hell, we can talk about Young's song, too, if "Sweet Home Alabama" is too tough to defend.
> The South has been trying to shake off that whole image for years > now. Every now and then someone with a vested interest in keeping [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > activity of any kind. There are, of course, occasional exceptions, > but the perpetrators end up doing hard time in the Big House. "Southern Man" came out in 1970. I'm not a Southerner nor was I even alive then, but I do know that at that time pro-segregation politicians, like George Wallace, still enjoyed a considerable amount of popularity in many parts of the South. Lily Belle with the golden brown hair couldn't have legally married her black man in Alabama till 2000. The racists who only wanted to maintain racial segregation may have been offended by being cast in with the racists who used bullwhips and burned crosses, but I can't say that I have much sympathy for them.
[...]
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com>
Joe - 27 Oct 2005 13:49 GMT In Birmingham they love the governor (Backup singers go "Boo boo boo") They're booing Wallace.
HOWEVER, "We all did what we could do" means they did all they could do to get him in office. That's coming from one of the co-writers on the song.
It all boils down to the man who wrote the lyrics probably had SOME conflicting feelings on this subject and it's up to you to interpret what it means to you. I think Ronnie wrote it that way. If you're racist and think the song is racist, then buy the album! If you aren't racist and think the song is anti-racism, then buy the album! If you write songs that are like this, then you aren't leaving anyone out.
03:15:38 GMT - 27 Oct 2005 16:10 GMT Joe <xchernayax@gmail.com> did this:
> In Birmingham they love the governor > (Backup singers go "Boo boo boo") > They're booing Wallace. Or they're mocking people who would suggest to Southerners that they shouldn't love Wallace. "Boo boo boo" isn't much of a criticism. The rest of the lyrics state that "the governer's true", and that "Montgomery's got the answer", without any booing, so it sure sounds like a pro-Wallace song to me.
> HOWEVER, "We all did what we could do" means they did all they could do > to get him in office. That's coming from one of the co-writers on the > song. Right. Those lines about loving the governor and Watergate are meant to suggest that, hey, at least Wallace isn't Nixon. It's an extremely weak tu quoque, to be sure - they compare supporting a guy who turned out to be a crook to supporting a guy who ran to maintain racial segregation.
> It all boils down to the man who wrote the lyrics probably had SOME > conflicting feelings on this subject and it's up to you to interpret > what it means to you. I think Ronnie wrote it that way. If you're > racist and think the song is racist, then buy the album! If you aren't > racist and think the song is anti-racism, then buy the album! If you > write songs that are like this, then you aren't leaving anyone out. Except the racists who think it's anti-racist - are there any? - and the anti-racists who think it's racist.
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com>
Joe - 27 Oct 2005 16:25 GMT > Or they're mocking people who would suggest to Southerners that they > shouldn't love Wallace. "Boo boo boo" isn't much of a criticism. The > rest of the lyrics state that "the governer's true", and that > "Montgomery's got the answer", without any booing, so it sure sounds > like a pro-Wallace song to me. Honestly, none of these guys were from Alabama. Most of the band was from Jacksonville, FL and Ed was from California. He now lives in TN. They didn't vote for Wallace but I'm sure they followed him. Back in 74, Wallace gave them all plaques declairing them Honorary Members of the Alabama State Militia. Ed still has his.
> Right. Those lines about loving the governor and Watergate are meant > to suggest that, hey, at least Wallace isn't Nixon. It's an extremely > weak tu quoque, to be sure - they compare supporting a guy who turned > out to be a crook to supporting a guy who ran to maintain racial > segregation. Nooo, they're saying Watergate was a thousand miles away and they aren't worried about it. You know, of course, Wallace changed his views on segregation and won with BLACK votes later on. Read up on that, it's kinda crazy.
> Except the racists who think it's anti-racist - are there any? - and > the anti-racists who think it's racist. I don't guess there are many because it seems everyone in the US has purchased a copy and not too many people think it's a bad song. They were just musicians, not politicians. Ed King is very proud of that song. I've had to opportunity to sit down and jam with him on that song. He taught me parts that even Gary Rossington doesn't know!
03:15:38 GMT - 27 Oct 2005 17:32 GMT Joe <xchernayax@gmail.com> did this:
>> Or they're mocking people who would suggest to Southerners that they >> shouldn't love Wallace. "Boo boo boo" isn't much of a criticism. The [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 74, Wallace gave them all plaques declairing them Honorary Members of > the Alabama State Militia. Ed still has his. Some of them may have voted for Wallace in one or more of his runs for president. He ran as a Democrat in 1964, 1972, and 1976, but didn't get the nomination, and as an American Independent Party candidate in 1968. He carried Alabama among a handful of Southern states.
>> Right. Those lines about loving the governor and Watergate are meant >> to suggest that, hey, at least Wallace isn't Nixon. It's an extremely [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Nooo, they're saying Watergate was a thousand miles away and they > aren't worried about it. I read the lines "In Birmingham they love the governor / Now we all did what we could do / Now Watergate does not bother me / Does your conscience bother you?" as suggesting that Watergate doesn't bother the lyricist because he "did what [he] could do" and that Nixon supporters should look at what their boy has done before booing Wallace.
> You know, of course, Wallace changed his > views on segregation and won with BLACK votes later on. Read up on > that, it's kinda crazy. Wallace didn't really recant till the late '70s and "Sweet Home Alabama" came out in 1974.
> I don't guess there are many because it seems everyone in the US has > purchased a copy and not too many people think it's a bad song. The music is one matter, the lyrics another. Besides, in my experience people rarely think about rock lyrics too deeply.
> They were just musicians, not politicians. Non-politicians can make political statements. Clearly the song has some political content, as it talks about a politician, mentions a political scandal, and criticizes another song with political content.
> Ed King is very proud of that > song. I've had to opportunity to sit down and jam with him on that > song. He taught me parts that even Gary Rossington doesn't know! That was nice of him.
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com>
Joe - 27 Oct 2005 19:23 GMT > Some of them may have voted for Wallace in one or more of his runs for > president. He ran as a Democrat in 1964, 1972, and 1976, but didn't > get the nomination, and as an American Independent Party candidate in > 1968. He carried Alabama among a handful of Southern states. I don't even consider his runs for president. He never made it - may have!
> I read the lines "In Birmingham they love the governor / Now we all > did what we could do / Now Watergate does not bother me / Does your > conscience bother you?" as suggesting that Watergate doesn't bother > the lyricist because he "did what [he] could do" and that Nixon > supporters should look at what their boy has done before booing > Wallace. According to Ed, they didn't care about Watergate. It was too far away. They weren't comparing Nixon to Wallace.
> Wallace didn't really recant till the late '70s and "Sweet Home > Alabama" came out in 1974. I'm just saying the guy wasn't some hard core racist running around with his bedsheet wrapped around him.
> The music is one matter, the lyrics another. Besides, in my experience > people rarely think about rock lyrics too deeply. It's JUST a song. A damn good one, at that.
> Non-politicians can make political statements. Clearly the song has > some political content, as it talks about a politician, mentions a > political scandal, and criticizes another song with political content. But what impact does this song have politically? None.
> That was nice of him. Ed is a great guy. Not the hard core racist I think you're seeing them as...
> Ari <asik@despammed.com> 03:15:38 GMT - 29 Oct 2005 11:17 GMT "Joe" <xchernayax@gmail.com> did this:
> > Some of them may have voted for Wallace in one or more of his runs for > > president. He ran as a Democrat in 1964, 1972, and 1976, but didn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't even consider his runs for president. He never made it - may > have! You were the one who introduced the question of whether the band ever voted for Wallace. I merely pointed out that it was possible for them to have done so.
> > I read the lines "In Birmingham they love the governor / Now we all > > did what we could do / Now Watergate does not bother me / Does your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > According to Ed, they didn't care about Watergate. It was too far > away. They weren't comparing Nixon to Wallace. If that's the case, the line about Watergate is a bit of a non sequitur.
> > Wallace didn't really recant till the late '70s and "Sweet Home > > Alabama" came out in 1974. > > I'm just saying the guy wasn't some hard core racist running around > with his bedsheet wrapped around him. Not only was Wallace a racist, in the late '60s and early '70s he was the public face of racism in the USA. His change of heart came after he had mostly lost his fight to deny equal rights to African-Americans.
> > The music is one matter, the lyrics another. Besides, in my experience > > people rarely think about rock lyrics too deeply. > > It's JUST a song. A damn good one, at that. I don't recall suggesting that it's something other than a song.
> > Non-politicians can make political statements. Clearly the song has > > some political content, as it talks about a politician, mentions a > > political scandal, and criticizes another song with political content. > > But what impact does this song have politically? None. "Sweet Home Alabama" is a very popular song which appears to associate a segregationist politician with Southern pride. Regardless of its current political impact, that shouldn't be ignored when we talk about it.
I suspect that the song's current political impact is fairly small - Wallace is dead and racial segregation is largely a thing of the past in the US. At the time it came out, however, Wallace was reportedly pleased with the song, so he probably thought that it helped his public image.
> > That was nice of him. > > Ed is a great guy. Not the hard core racist I think you're seeing them > as... I don't know whether Mr King is a racist. Although the lyrics to the song reflect badly on the band, their existence doesn't necessarily lead to the conclusion that all band members are or were racists.
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com>
cmjaltx - 22 Dec 2005 08:23 GMT George Wallace was a hard individual to get along with. His career really didn't need racism and a KKK image to maintain leadership for so long and then some from his wife Lurleen. As a supporter of Kennedy policy though we had some faith in Wallaces down the road after the racism thing past but his leadership was that of a dictator. He had a deep sentiment against what is known as a Nigger Nigra foresay to him theres a certain difference that is distinctive and they were the ones Martin Luther King drawn attention from esp. during and the first stages of his governorship.He did employ black people but not those typos and he was seriously bent on anything spoken behind his back that implied he was a racist, in fact he would have personally thrown you out of a campaign headquarters himself had he heard you speaking of a racist issue according to his son whom has become the Public Service Commissioner in Alabama and whom I wen to school with. But since the Public Service Commission stopped funding of certain handicap programs to place them under review till new legislation could be enacted and up until they supported giving BellSouth the power to add taxes where other companies could choose not to add them we became arch enemies. I long lost the styrafoam hat from the campaign, the one with the bite from it, anyway life prospered and now all the problem is Terrorism which I do not see it as beyond bravery rather below stupidity. Black Nigger Nigras so he would have spoke of did not have that as a concept nor have the right to life campaigners ever chose to donate themselves as a suicide bomber. Tracking of KKK began long ago and still continues today, if terrorists could be looked upon as a racist as such the KKK is there wouldn't need be any such Patriot Act as those suspicious persons would not just be tracked but easedropped on as in wire taps without having to have court injunctions as the founded operation against the KKK Movement is still existing today and has tracked the movement to Aruba, Russia, Italy, Germany, etc all over the world and convicted in Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Texas etc so need I say more. Just where were they when the 911 incident tore through the hearts of all Americans, where were they when finding Bin Laden was critical, where are they today on the terrorism issue? Everyone in Jr.High, and High schools did not care one way or the other of a hidden meaning behind the wordings of the song, Sweet Home Alabama, as it was a favorite. I had already graduated in 1971, never experienced a bus boycott downtown Montgomery or elsewhere like once I went to a walkin movie in Birmingham and that was still a issue signs and posters still existed about Whites Only and that kept up its momentum in Mississippi for a long while thereafter. Where are they today, watching Tyra walking around with herfinger in her belly button,its only logical. I say logical because Europeans wanted to boast the fashion industry and dove head first into African cultures knowing that would affect american/africans and they have a jump on the market in Africa which transpired quickly. That's why they got more support for the EURO Dollar, banking is in european countries not Africa. You might find Bin Ladins' kinfolk marching towards them banks to secure their diamond mines without fearing them as backers of suicide bombers and the Al Quaeda, he was not the only person to set ouit to attend German schools many came from Africa funded by Ladens' kinfolks diamond movement. Canadian assets are major in Africa, esp.in diamond investment because of British Patent issues otherwise being owned by the African government.Canadians free up much of their assets for Africa and Cuban commercialism and will be a major offshore oil backer for Cuba soon when Cuba and Venezuela manage to iron out their deals if Cuba gets the upper hand that is. Southern Pop-Rock is one of my favorite listening genres. I liked Jimmy Hendrix and lots of soul and the blues but thats still a favorite even so Hip-Hop, RnB, and Rap have grown in the south as favorites. Music is not my cupof tea, nor dancing but the Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Sweet Home Alabama" is stilla major favorite group too. Salsa you need lots of room and is considered as a outdoor genre rather than a dancehall as some on stage artists aremaking it as its a hot genre intended for the outdoors. Lynyrd Skynyrd music is a traveling music for on the road.
> "Joe" <xchernayax@gmail.com> did this: > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > song reflect badly on the band, their existence doesn't necessarily > lead to the conclusion that all band members are or were racists. 03:15:38 GMT - 22 Dec 2005 11:44 GMT "cmjaltx" <cmjaltx@charter.net> did this:
> George Wallace was a hard individual to get along with. His career really > didn't need racism and a KKK image to maintain leadership for so long and [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > intended for the outdoors. Lynyrd Skynyrd music is a traveling music for on > the road. It's helpful to "segregate" your text into paragraphs. It makes your text more pleasant to read for the "discriminating" eye.
 Signature Ari <asik@despammed.com> "What you should also consider highly probably is how [mail-bombing] will affect the 2005 awards: you'd be forced to scrap it and start all over again...and again." -- James Koput, WÔrst Flamer 2003-...
Burnham Treezdown - 25 Dec 2005 08:13 GMT >George Wallace was a hard individual to get along with. His career really >didn't need racism and a KKK image to maintain leadership for so long and [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >intended for the outdoors. Lynyrd Skynyrd music is a traveling music for on >the road. WTF?
Southern literacy at its best....
mac davis - 25 Dec 2005 17:15 GMT >WTF? > >Southern literacy at its best.... Isn't that an Oxymoron??
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
pTooner - 29 Dec 2005 04:50 GMT >>George Wallace was a hard individual to get along with. His career really >>didn't need racism and a KKK image to maintain leadership for so long and [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > > Southern literacy at its best.... I agree with the WTF, but there's even less Southern than there is Literacy here. Gerry
cmjaltx - 10 Feb 2006 19:39 GMT > I agree with the WTF, but there's even less Southern than there is > Literacy here. > Gerry Yes but Jimmy Carter gives folks the wrong judgement call on wiretap technology since he knew about it wiretap has gone supercomputer and thats beyond satellite which during Carters day in office and before wiretap had a pole climber a black or white van and some earphones and a tape recorder if lucky to afford it otherwise its digital and imagery and lots of language calls so the problem I got with Jimmy carter is that his Center was paid for by the US Government and it seems that he don't care that much about wiretap he don't understand and shuns it away as if that is going to make things any better for all the people that go to The Carter Center in Georgia aside from terrorist threats maybe Jimmy carter is trying the Southern cover your A^$* trick to lure the terrorists to some other place besides where he has his documents so he can lookup pole climbers and tag numbers for all the King generation that have died or grown old. I do not have anything against black people, some I think are more than cute and then there are some I would certainly like to be close friends with but the world is passing folks by because of the talk against wiretapping, software development for the supercomputer is not a commercial venture, rather being so secret that it seems why anyone would want to disclose to a court the important issue details which do not need disclosure but rather closure on a permane\ant basis by NSA not CIA and that is the wiretap problem as I see it the news media is playing the hand for public suppport because of politics and it has nothing to do with politics who is going to be safer knowing of a threat or whom is not and if government passes the opportunity someday supercomputers will be coming out of Japan that other nations can buy up and begin endorsing their own wiretapping against any American business or individual and thats where our supercomputer technology needs support and programming backup so to prevent such as that from hogging the satellites. Look China has so many people populi and Russia and European countries are battling for services always and here come the middle east with our gas and oil money to start their own thingy and they them ISLAM's that want immediate justice not the courtroom type justice we are accustomed to and folks are being killed and its just a blessed cartoon and they are hipocrits to believe that someone will hire them to climb a pole and easedrop during a riot and that makes me wonder if that is going to always be the problem that Denmark could have had a supercomputer link and they could have accessed it during the flag buring as a diversion.
Southern Smarts Show Jimmy Carter Is More Than Ignorant Of Supercomputer technology and its capabilities to perform googles of mathematical problems faster than he could perform one and it boils down to language conversion and notification of leads to follow up on from certain inputs. Ity is necessary, it is a real need and I don't need the Southern Hospitality of Jimmy Carter and his old administration that think otherwise, there are to many people without jobs and which do not possess the ability to have the job so I don't see any new jobs occurring out of wiretapping laws just more free tickets to nowhere that government has not got to pay the bill if it is law and that is all it amounts to Lobbiest that want the money from every spur of the moment thingy whether it will save another 911 from happening or not they simply are money hoggish, besides Carter is a Republican and so is Bush and Republicans control the government so how does that seem at all possible that Bush wants his voters to survice terrorism and Jimmy carter don't give a hill of beans to make it possible for even himself to survive thus making himself a worldwide civil rights target and so many church burnings makes me wonder if them arsonists coming from Georgia to get their jollies in Alabama by buring churches.
Screwy administration administrators don't even have the ability to describe what a future readout of wiretap information would look like cause they so hooked onto the pole thingy themselves because they cannot afford the supercomputer doing it for them when they need it done. Thats Special Access Key Time anyway and they would go on record in more ways than one by computer security and thats worse than police ADT security.
I say find the Hackers, who cares to find the Terrorists let them get all of them before they blowup the world in which we live and destroy our lives as they have so many others, if it requires wiretapping by supercomputer technology let it happen and stop complaining that humans are not doing a good enough job at it as it seems with knowledge of terrorists in America prior to 911 and knowledge of hurricanes prior to Gulf states disasters.
Put the supercomputer we own to work! Need I say more! Want me to push a few buttons for a while!
Thanks Michael I try not to sound like a prophet but sometimes I get riddled and forget theres a different life I have to tend to from day to day and thats when I am offline. Jimmy carter did not inspire me, Wallace inspired me to be better than him. Just how can I campaign this matter like the politicians do on television free time, thats what they are pushing for and Carter is trying to oust out Bush to take the Republican votes for himself so he can decide what to do?
"Sweet Home Alabama" is what the feeling is, not routy and rude like Carter at a funeral. "Alabama" doing it makes some folks happier. Carter cannot write the Lyrics much less read the lyrics a supercomputer can make the words in all languages and styles even a hip-hop version besides the genre CHRISTIAN RAP Carter seemed to play into.
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