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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / November 2005camper help
i want to be able to load up the entire family and head out into the mountains for ATV/RUV/MX riding weekends. my goal is to get a camper and since we'll be taking 2 ATVs and 4 dirt bikes we need to tow my 18' enclosed trailer (http://utilityoffroad.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4364), which limits us to a slide in type camper. ive been looking at a few different models and brands and the only ones that appear big enough for all of us are the slide in's with overhang over the rear bumper. i dont know much about these setups and how they work in relation to trailer towing. my trailer is 3000 pounds empty. add the ATV/RUV/MX and gear and im looking at somewhere around 6000 pounds with probably 600 pounds of tongue weight. i have the stock class IV hitch on my tow rig (http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html) and i dont know if it could safely support 600 pounds of tongue weight on a 3 or 4 foot hitch extension. any knowledgeable advice on this would be greatly appreciated. are there any other concerns i should be aware of? any reason why i should be concerned about hauling a 3500 pound camper in the back of the truck while simultaneously towing up to 10,000 pounds? any camper specific recommendations? how about a good camper dealer? thanks,  SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com Nate, What your drive-train / suspension "sees" is a combination load, camper and all your supplies for the duration plus the the tongue load. That's all your food, water, clothes, bedding, and any other "necessities" and then add the weight of the slide-in plus the tongue weight of the trailer. Combined, it's very easy to overload the truck and not realize it. Think back when I moved from CO to UT. I ended up with a load that was 1K lbs over the axle gross rating after I dumped all the stuff I could and some I couldn't. I should have rented a U-haul truck, not a trailer, and towed the D-150 My suggestion: get a good, used motorhome. You would have more room and still be able tow your trailers . . just not to the off-road campsites. Around here, a lot of off-road vehicles are towed in with ordinary motorhomes ( if you call 50 footers "ordinary"), which get parked near the area of activity, then the ATV, jeeps, whatever, are unloaded. -- Budd Cochran > i want to be able to load up the entire family and head out into the > mountains for ATV/RUV/MX riding weekends. my goal is to get a camper and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > http://UtilityOffRoad.com > http://BighornRefrigeration.com > My suggestion: get a good, used motorhome. a motorhome would be incapable of accessing the places we go. if i didnt have a winch on the front of my truck i wouldnt even try getting there that way. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com Then you have a problem, my friend, and it beyond my experience. That size slide-in will definitely raise the center of gravity of your truck making a bad situation much worse. Not too many years back, according to some locals, a tourist tried to winch his slide-in rig to a spot in the slickrock area and the resulting accident left him in his family in the hospital for a month. Will that happen to you? I don't know, I'm just asking you to be careful, please -- Budd Cochran > > My suggestion: get a good, used motorhome. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > http://UtilityOffRoad.com > http://BighornRefrigeration.com if you're going into country that rough, you will be tipping the whole thing over (can you say center of gravity) and losing the trailer down the hill when the hitch breaks off. Other than that, you'll probably have a good day. bill >> My suggestion: get a good, used motorhome. > > a motorhome would be incapable of accessing the places we go. if i didnt > have a winch on the front of my truck i wouldnt even try getting there > that way. > if you're going into country that rough, you will be tipping the whole > thing over people go through that area all the time with setups like im describing. we arent talking about rock crawling trails, just trails too rough to get a motorhome through. 4 wheel drive is mandatory. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com > Nate, > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >>http://UtilityOffRoad.com >>http://BighornRefrigeration.com I have a extended cab, long box, 1 ton, ctd with a slide in camper. When the fuel tank, h2o tank are full, groceries, clothes, golf clubs, the case of beer etc and the 2 of us in the cab, we are 200 pounds under the gvw Precisely what I was meaning. According to DC, you shouldn't tow anything with more than 200 pounds tongue weight, or 2000 lbs total. -- Budd Cochran > > Nate, > > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > the case of beer etc and the 2 of us in the cab, we are 200 pounds under > the gvw > According to DC, you shouldn't tow anything with more than 200 pounds > tongue > weight, or 2000 lbs total. ?? with a one ton dually? http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com >>According to DC, you shouldn't tow anything with more than 200 pounds >>tongue >>weight, or 2000 lbs total. > > ?? with a one ton dually? http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html single axle. >>>According to DC, you shouldn't tow anything with more than 200 pounds >>>tongue [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> > single axle. doesnt matter. if i couldnt tow more than 2000 pounds with it i would trade it on an F350. :-) SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com > doesnt matter. if i couldnt tow more than 2000 pounds with it i would > trade it on an F350. :-) Heh... with a 12,000lb. GVWR, and a tow rating of 13,500lbs. (combined rating of 21,000lbs.), that shouldn't be a problem. I have no idea where the 200lb. tongue weight/2,000lb. total trailer weight came into the picture. With your 6,000lb. trailer, a vehicle of 7,500lbs., 600lbs. of people/posessions, and 3,500lbs. of camper, that puts your GVWR right about 12,000lbs (figuring tongue weight of trailer, as well). The trailer puts you at 18,000lbs. GCVWR, which is well within specs. I'm a little worried about your front axle (especially with the added weight of the winch on it)... the front axle's only rated at 5,200lbs., and already has about 4,500lbs. on it with your configuration. I also have no idea about the hitch extension given the overhanging camper. I'd certainly think about getting a class 5 hitch on there (don't know if they're available for the 3rd gens or not...), because of the added leverage of the trailer. On the upside, that long hitch extension will help take some weight off the front axle :) There's some discussion of people doing this (camper/trailer/hitch extension) here: http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/16396808.cfm Getting back to the toy hauler, I don't see why it wouldn't be big enough. If your 18' trailer is enough for all your vehicles, and an 8' camper is big enough for all of you, why wouldn't a 26-28' toy hauler fit both? Is the extra length of the trailer an issue for the terrain it's going to see? >>doesnt matter. if i couldnt tow more than 2000 pounds with it i would >>trade it on an F350. :-) [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > enough for all of you, why wouldn't a 26-28' toy hauler fit both? Is the > extra length of the trailer an issue for the terrain it's going to see? 2 things here that I am getting confused about. First, I thought that a vehicle's GVWR was the total weight a truck could carry/pull. After all we do, at some point have to safely stop this truck/camper/trailer combo. Secondly, isn't a F350 one of those dinky toy kind of things. We are talking real trucks here. > isn't a F350 one of those dinky toy kind of things. We are talking real > trucks here. an f350 doesnt come with a paper hidden in the center console that says "this vehicle is not recommended for hauling a slide in camper". i dont understand why chryco says that their flagship diesel truck isnt capable (or not recommended anyway) of hauling a slide in camper. i dont think this would have affected my decision to buy my truck. it is by far the most awesome vehicle ive ever owned (at least for towing anyway)......but i do wish this paper wasnt hidden in a spot that nobody checks before buying a vehicle. it was never mentioned by my dealership, and not posted anywhere else that ive found. if the axle is incapable of handling the weight of a slide in camper, put a bigger axle in. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com >> isn't a F350 one of those dinky toy kind of things. We are talking real >> trucks here. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >else that ive found. if the axle is incapable of handling the weight of a >slide in camper, put a bigger axle in. nate, is yours a short box? i thought the long box was made for a slide in camper. > nate, is yours a short box? i thought the long box was made for a > slide in camper. nope, long box. http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com >> nate, is yours a short box? i thought the long box was made for a >> slide in camper. > >nope, long box. http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html nice trucks. i still like the srw ones the best, just the looks of those duals is wierd to me...........but i know they serve a purpose. >>nope, long box. http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html > > nice trucks. i still like the srw ones the best, just the looks of > those duals is wierd to me...........but i know they serve a purpose. i like the SRW as well, but there are advantages both ways. i like the tire size options i have with the SRW and ours is definately easier to park at the mall than our DRW. the advantage of the DRW comes apparent when youre towing a trailer weighing more than the truck. ive pulled our trailer with both trucks and the DRW truck definately controls it better. its not that the SRW doesnt control it....it just doesnt control it as good as the DRW. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com >>>nope, long box. http://inlinediesel.com/trucks/3gen/1/index.html >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >both trucks and the DRW truck definately controls it better. its not that >the SRW doesnt control it....it just doesnt control it as good as the DRW. Nate.. just one of those "logical" things that usually don't meet with reality, but I've always figured that the best use for a DRW was for things like a slide-in, where you have more of a tendency to sway from being kinda top heavy.. We saw a nice rig on a recent trip... 3/4 ton ford with a huge slide in that raised and lowered like a popup.. cab height when on the road... The guy said that he drove offroad a lot and between high center of gravity and cross winds, he got rid of his old slide-in and got the "popup" one... He was pulling a 20' fishing boat with an atv rack on the trailer..lol mac Please remove splinters before emailing > The guy said that he drove offroad a lot and between high center of > gravity and > cross winds, he got rid of his old slide-in and got the "popup" one... i figure with a standard slide in i could take turns with the wifey sleeping/driving. a popup is only usable when its popped up. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com >> The guy said that he drove offroad a lot and between high center of >> gravity and >> cross winds, he got rid of his old slide-in and got the "popup" one... > >i figure with a standard slide in i could take turns with the wifey >sleeping/driving. a popup is only usable when its popped up. This one looked like you could sleep in it, from what I saw when he popped the back door... it was like a cab high topper when down... Damn thing probably cost more than a new truck, though.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing Nate I had a slide in cab over camper that I carried around for for about 10 years in two different trucks. One being a Dodge Cummins 2500. Never had a problem with control. Mine was only a 8.5 model that weighed in about 2900 pounds fully loaded. They just take getting use to, keeping in mind your center of gravity and height clearance. Couple things I discovered was make sure you have quality sway bars front and rear. I used the skinny hydraulic shocks that connect from the cab to the front door jam/fender area. A lot of people say you don't need them and they didn't want to drill holes in their truck but it takes out all that forward bucking bounce a cab over can sometimes give you. Forget about the airbags in they rear...... they simply didn't work for me. Instead I went with Helwig progressive overloads. What I did was have extended shackles made up so that I could remove the shackles when empty, thus giving me the factory ride because with the Helwigs on while empty it will beat you to death. I didn't use the Helwig for the overload capacity but for the benefit of taking out any sway and they worked great for that. In your case with a 3500, you're in better shape than I was. In addition to hauling the camper around I pulled my boat on most trips which weighted in about 3,000 pounds. Sounds like you are talking about a 11 or 12 foot slide in but I think if you took a hard look at the 9.5 or 10 foot model you will be surprised at the room you have in them, especially if they have a slide out dining area section which wasn't available when I had mine. Todays slide in campers are build much better than when I had mine and the center of gravity is much lower in them now. Probable over 90% of the cab over campers going down the road are overloaded but that is the nature of the beast, I know I was most of the time. Jerry > used the skinny hydraulic shocks that connect from the cab to the front > door jam/fender area. ? i have _no_ idea what youre referencing. do you have an online source available to show/tell me a little more about it? > Forget about the airbags in they rear...... they simply didn't work for > me. i used to hate airbags but have since come to believe they were beneficial. please explain. > Sounds like you are talking about a 11 or 12 foot slide in ive since decided to fine one even with the end of my truck bed so that extending my hitch wouldnt be an issue. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com >> Forget about the airbags in they rear...... they simply didn't work >> for me. > > i used to hate airbags but have since come to believe they were > beneficial. please explain. I've never used air bags, but Timbren springs work great. http://www.timbren.com/ SignatureKen > ? i have _no_ idea what youre referencing. do you have an online source > available to show/tell me a little more about it? I don't recall what they were named or called. take a look at the truck at the top of the picture here.... http://www.lancecampers.com/ . See the long shocks connecting the overhang to the front of the truck. > i used to hate airbags but have since come to believe they were beneficial. > please explain. All the air bags done for me was give me a harsher ride when unloaded. You can pump them up to increase payload but think about what you are really doing. They are nothing more than hard air spacers between frame and axle and nothing to cushion a rut or pot hole when you hit it hard. Besides just when you don't need it they will blow in a turn or start a slow leak that you can't patch and you will be going down the road like a crab. I just didn't have any faith in them for the long haul. The springs that Nosey mentioned should work well, especially if you leave the camper on 24/7 but I took mine off all the time and by simply removing the four separate end shackles on the springs I was back at stock ride and the overload springs were still bolted to the axle. Worked for me. > ive since decided to fine one even with the end of my truck bed so that > extending my hitch wouldnt be an issue. Then the 8.5 foot or even the 9.5 foot model would work well for you. 8><--- > haul. The springs that Nosey mentioned should work well, especially if > you leave the camper on 24/7 but I took mine off all the time and by > simply removing the four separate end shackles on the springs I was > back at stock ride and the overload springs were still bolted to the > axle. Worked for me. 8><--- I left the Timbren springs on all the time. When the truck is empty they do not have any effect on the ride. I actually forgot they were there. I didn't think to remove them when I sold the truck. SignatureKen > I don't recall what they were named or called. take a look at the truck > at the top of the picture here.... http://www.lancecampers.com/ . See the > long shocks connecting the overhang to the front of the truck. gotcha, thanks. i wouldnt want to drill my truck like that either. SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com Jerry, If I may . . . I suggest you look at AirRide Technologies. The most common cause of air suspension failure is a leak in an improperly installed line. Helper bags can be deflated to a couple pounds of pressure just to avoid chafing. -- Budd Cochran > > ? i have _no_ idea what youre referencing. do you have an online source > > available to show/tell me a little more about it? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Then the 8.5 foot or even the 9.5 foot model would work well for you. > Jerry, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Helper bags can be deflated to a couple pounds of pressure just to avoid > chafing. I don't need to look, I'm speaking from actual experience. I've bought, installed, and used them. They did not perform up to expectations or as advertised. Anything subject to dependence of air to operate/perform are subject to leaks....... like a tire, no lines there. Why take the chance when you are miles from nowhere out in the boondocks. > > Jerry, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > are subject to leaks....... like a tire, no lines there. Why take the > chance when you are miles from nowhere out in the boondocks. Steel springs break too and that I've experienced. Give me a bit more info because there's a lot of folks here in Moab with airsprings that have not had any problems. What did you drop them (PSI) to when unloaded? Was the problem just a stiffer ride? What pressure did you inflate them to? Where they the proper size for your load? Budd > Give me a bit more info because there's a lot of folks here in Moab with > airsprings that have not had any problems. > > What did you drop them (PSI) to when unloaded? Was the problem just a > stiffer ride? What pressure did you inflate them to? Where they the proper > size for your load? Budd, how many trucks of your own have you used air bags on while carrying a slide in camper? No, not some National Guard story or some forklift, but your own personal truck and camper. My truck wasn't a 2500 as I mistakenly said but actually a 1989 D250 4x4 with Cummins. Maybe they work better today......... Maybe they would work on Nate's truck with the longer wheel base and longer rear springs but they didn't work for me then. I really don't need to diagnose why as I found out what did work and posted same. Then again if you have a lot of personal experience with your own truck and your own cab over camper you might shed some light to those that desire to here your story. Jerry > > Give me a bit more info because there's a lot of folks here in Moab with > > airsprings that have not had any problems. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > carrying a slide in camper? No, not some National Guard story or some > forklift, but your own personal truck and camper. Ok, none, for very long. I was given an eight foot cab-over slide-in that needed major repair before using. Even as an empty shell, it made my stock suspended 79 D-150 sway a bit. I never got it finished as we decided to move to Utah. There, happy now? I am offended by your comment about my using all my experiences to aid others.Why can't I? I have driven friends rigs, however, with airbags and with other spring assists . . but wait, that's not admissible, is it? > My truck wasn't a > 2500 as I mistakenly said but actually a 1989 D250 4x4 with Cummins. > Maybe they work better today......... Same load range. Personally, I think you had a better suspended rig for heavy usage that the newer designs. Btw, that would have been a "W"-250. iirc. > Maybe they would work on Nate's > truck with the longer wheel base and longer rear springs but they didn't > work for me then. I really don't need to diagnose why as I found out > what did work and posted same. And I was trying to get info that maybe someone else might find useful, that's all. Since you do not wish to share info that could help someone, that is your decision. And, btw, Firestone bags are used on many, if not most, semi-tractors today. They must work pretty darn good. > Then again if you have a lot of personal > experience with your own truck and your own cab over camper you might > shed some light to those that desire to here your story. Ok, Jerry, I see your point, I think, and I don't think not too much of it. I think all our experiences are useful to someone at some time, somewhere. I do try to use only the ones that have an application to the topic discussed, like the hydraulic clutch on the forklift and the hydraulic clutch on the truck. Similar system, same operation, differing vehicles . . .kinda like talking about one on a Dodge pickup and a Peterbuilt dump truck . . .if it has one. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. > I am offended by your comment about my using all my experiences to aid > others.Why can't I? Because you don't have any so why attempt to show other wise..... > I have driven friends rigs, however, with airbags and with other spring > assists . . but wait, that's not admissible, is it? No it is not. I have driven a couple 18 wheelers for friends for a few miles. Doesn't make me a OTR driver now does it. > Same load range. Personally, I think you had a better suspended rig for > heavy usage that the newer designs. Btw, that would have been a "W"-250. > iirc. Better suspension when fully loaded yes. Required use of a kidney belt when unloaded. Airbags made it worse when unloaded. > btw, Firestone bags are used on many, if not > most, semi-tractors today. And none of them go off road onto trails such as Nate said he needed them for. Besides their main use in that application is to level the load, not more load or control of a top heavy camper. Apples to oranges. > > I am offended by your comment about my using all my experiences to aid > > others.Why can't I? > > Because you don't have any so why attempt to show other wise..... Ah, you were there? When, where? I curious as to how you can be so sure of this. > > I have driven friends rigs, however, with airbags and with other spring > > assists . . but wait, that's not admissible, is it? > > No it is not. I have driven a couple 18 wheelers for friends for a few > miles. Doesn't make me a OTR driver now does it. Sorry, saying you drove 18 wheelers is not admissible, by your rules. > > Same load range. Personally, I think you had a better suspended rig for > > heavy usage that the newer designs. Btw, that would have been a "W"-250. > > iirc. > > Better suspension when fully loaded yes. Required use of a kidney belt > when unloaded. Airbags made it worse when unloaded. Did you leave them inflated? Or did you reduce the pressure? > > btw, Firestone bags are used on many, if not > > most, semi-tractors today. > > And none of them go off road onto trails such as Nate said he needed > them for. Besides their main use in that application is to level the > load, not more load or control of a top heavy camper. Apples to oranges. Beg to differ. A spring is a spring, now, type of spring is the difference. An air spring is an increasing rate spring: the if the first half of it's travel required 200 pounds to compress to that point, the next 200 pounds will compress only half as much. I think the springs were working fine, just not the way you expected. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. ... snipped... What ever Budd.......... Jerry, I'm sorry you dismissed me like that. I was trying to figure it all out so if not you, then maybe I could help someone in the future. Why is that a bad thing to do? In your opinion, wouldn't it be better to ask questions of someone with a bad experience as well as someone with a good experience? You insinuated I didn't have all the experiences I've claimed, but the problem with that is that you have not lived the life I have had, gone the places I've gone and done what I've done. So you presume I'm lying. Fine, that is your choice, but think on this: our lives our only mundane if we live them in a mundane manner. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. > ... snipped... > > What ever Budd.......... > Jerry, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > that is your choice, but think on this: our lives our only mundane if we > live them in a mundane manner. Budd, go f.ck yourself. You're still the same know nothing stupid a.s you always were. It's just a matter of time before you start crying that you're being picked on and start blubbering moronic crap as you say goodbye again.....which will be what, the fourth or fifth time. Oh hell, what am I doing here..... I probable caused you to now go off on one of your heart bypass stories again, looking for that pity you always seem to beg people for...... like anyone really gives a sh.t. Don't you have the least bit of a clue of the laughter behind your back. Yeah, go f.ck yourself. > > Jerry, > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Budd, go f.ck yourself. Sorry, against my religion. > You're still the same know nothing stupid a.s > you always were. Am I? I'm trying to learn something and you're refusing to instruct me. > It's just a matter of time before you start crying > that you're being picked on and start blubbering moronic crap as you say > goodbye again.....which will be what, the fourth or fifth time. No, Jerry, I really was trying to learn something. > Oh > hell, what am I doing here..... I probable caused you to now go off on > one of your heart bypass stories again, looking for that pity you always > seem to beg people for...... like anyone really gives a sh.t. Nope, sorry. Last check up gave me the best bill of health in 10 years. I've even lost 45 pounds. I feel great. > Don't you > have the least bit of a clue of the laughter behind your back. Yeah, go > f.ck yourself. What does it say about you since you refuse to teach me? I'm sorry that my trying to be civil and trying to learn something are so repulsive to you that you would tell me this kind of thing. Budd > Nope, sorry. Last check up gave me the best bill of health in 10 years. > I've > even lost 45 pounds. I feel great. glad to hear it! wow......i havent checked up on this thread in a few days. sorry to see the turns its taken. ........but im damn glad to hear youre doing great! maybe next spring youll head up this way for some fine fishin'! SignatureNathan W. Collier http://InlineDiesel.com http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com http://BighornRefrigeration.com > > Nope, sorry. Last check up gave me the best bill of health in 10 years. > > I've > > even lost 45 pounds. I feel great. > > glad to hear it! Better watch out, my friend, if I keep it up I'll be built better than you. <VVBG> > wow......i havent checked up on this thread in a few days. sorry to see the > turns its taken. All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of knowledge, which seems to be denied to me and anyone else reading the thread. > ........but im damn glad to hear youre doing great! maybe next spring youll > head up this way for some fine fishin'! I don't travel much anymore. My last trip was back to Canon City CO with my kid (half-) brother was last spring to pick up his 12 foot fishing boat. Monarch Pass (11,312 ft)on U.S. 50 nearly got me with a lack of oxygen, but I did some "forced" breathing (deeper than normal inhalations but restricted flow on the exhalation a bit to force O2 into the membranes) and got my self saturated again. Budd > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of knowledge, > which seems to be denied to me and anyone else reading the thread. Budd, I too am happy to see your back and read that your health has improved. But.... read over the threads you have been involved in since your return. Some you have shared knowledge others..Well, in others it has been arguments with the same people you argued with before. Here's what I do. Those that piss me off or that I think are total a.sholes I ignore. I don't respond to them at all. I don't use the KF, I just ignore them. Actually it is only one, so it is pretty easy to do. Also as time goes by fewer and fewer people respond to him. There are always people that you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to get along with them will give ya heartburn. So ya just don't play with them. Sorta like a 12 step program. Ya gotta realize what ya can and can't control, here all ya can control is yourself. Please take this in the spirit in which it was intended. Oh, Road Runners still suck!! <BFG> Roy > > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of knowledge, > > which seems to be denied to me and anyone else reading the thread. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Some you have shared knowledge others..Well, in others it has been arguments > with the same people you argued with before. True, but with Jerry, and he refuses to accept the truth, I was trying to learn something, but he chooses not to share knowledge. > Here's what I do. Those that piss me off or that I think are total a.sholes > I ignore. I don't respond to them at all. I don't use the KF, I just ignore > them. Actually it is only one, so it is pretty easy to do. Also as time > goes by fewer and fewer people respond to him. I prefer to get along with people ( Denny and Bryan Foust have met me in person) And I try to avoid arguments, but it will always get my goat when I'm told the things I've done in my life are lies. > There are always people that > you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to get along > with them will give ya heartburn. So ya just don't play with them. Sorta > like a 12 step program. Ya gotta realize what ya can and can't control, here > all ya can control is yourself. I understand and I've run into that type in other groups, but I have to be who I am. > Please take this in the spirit in which it was intended. I think I have and I still like you . . .for some dumb reason. <VBG> > Oh, Road Runners still suck!! <BFG> Just read an article in a Mopar Action about one of the winged wonders that set 28 records at Bonneville in the mid seventies, and I remember Smokey Yunick trying to set a bunch a few years earlier . . .but he's still ticked off at that. > Roy Budd >> > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of > knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > True, but with Jerry, and he refuses to accept the truth, I was trying to > learn something, but he chooses not to share knowledge. But what you may consider the truth, he may not. You HAVE TO ACCEPT that. That is just the way it is. No point going over it time and time again. >> Here's what I do. Those that piss me off or that I think are total > a.sholes [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > person) And I try to avoid arguments, but it will always get my goat when > I'm told the things I've done in my life are lies. You are the only one that know what you have done over the years. It matters not whether people believe you or not. Further if they don't so what? It don't mean jack sh.t. Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply pushing your buttons and you provide the desired reaction. >> There are always people that >> you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to get [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I think I have and I still like you . . .for some dumb reason. <VBG> Good!! Ya gotta 'cause I'm older! <G> Oh ya I'm also the voice of reason.<GBFG> Now theres a jump ball!! >> Oh, Road Runners still suck!! <BFG> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ticked > off at that. I remember the Studebaker Avanti with a 289, paxton on top, was for a while, the fastest production car. 168.8 MPH That car was waay ahead of it's time imo. >> Roy > > Budd Roy > >> > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of > > knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > But what you may consider the truth, he may not. You HAVE TO ACCEPT that. > That is just the way it is. No point going over it time and time again. One can accept another's experiences without insinuating that person is lying. As for it being the truth, I do not tell lies when it comes to my experiences. I don't need to, it's been an incredible adventure. I've done more than the average person because I've accepted every challenge as they came. > >> Here's what I do. Those that piss me off or that I think are total > > a.sholes [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > not whether people believe you or not. Further if they don't so what? It > don't mean jack sh.t. Because I am quite proud with what I've accomplished in spite of coming from a poor family. Because I was raised to defend my honor to the death, if need be, as well as the honor of my friends and family. Old fashioned, yes, but it's me. > Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply pushing your > buttons and you provide the desired reaction. Maybe, but they need to consider what kind of a person would take pleasure from causing distress to another human being. The really weird part is that many that have done to me in the past brag about how much they care for their fellow man > >> There are always people that > >> you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to get [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Good!! Ya gotta 'cause I'm older! <G> Yeah? Older don't make ya smarter. > Oh ya I'm also the voice of reason.<GBFG> Now theres a jump ball!! dang it! nwthr z Pep one al ofer d kay brd. > >> Oh, Road Runners still suck!! <BFG> > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the fastest production car. 168.8 MPH That car was waay ahead of it's time > imo. Agreed. Too bad the Paxton supercharger was running at it limits at the time. Had a friend at the muffler factory that had the 289 in a Lark 2-door that he'd built up with Stage 2 parts, 4-speed and 4.11 welded spider axle . . .that sucker was a handful when the axle began tramping those 9.75 X 15 snow treads. Budd >> >> > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of >> > knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > One can accept another's experiences without insinuating that person is > lying. Perhaps, but it is only a insiuation. Don't be so thin skinned. > As for it being the truth, I do not tell lies when it comes to my > experiences. I don't need to, it's been an incredible adventure. I've done [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > be, as well as the honor of my friends and family. Old fashioned, yes, but > it's me. Most people have done things they are proud of no matter where they came from. But it does not matter here. >> Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply pushing > your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > many that have done to me in the past brag about how much they care for > their fellow man So what!! Some people are a.s holes, ignore them!!! Different people do different things, some are bully's some are not. You make a decision to respond to the people that you precieve have done this. By responding nothing is accomplished imo. Just more of the same. >> >> There are always people that >> >> you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to get [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Yeah? Older don't make ya smarter. Sure it does, at least in this case. I'm not involved in bs with 3 or 4 people >> Oh ya I'm also the voice of reason.<GBFG> Now theres a jump ball!! > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > . .that sucker was a handful when the axle began tramping those 9.75 X 15 > snow treads. I'll bet it was. > Budd Roy > >> >> > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of > >> > knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Perhaps, but it is only a insiuation. Don't be so thin skinned. IMHO, I'm not thin skinned, but everyone of us on this Earth have things we cannot tolerate having said or done about us. I worked my butt off all my life to build and maintain a good reputation. Why shouldn't I get mad when someone who wasn't even there when I did what I claim tells me directly or indirectly, that I'm a liar or that I don't know anything? Sorry, I went the pacifist route for 20 years and got my face ground in the mud for it > > As for it being the truth, I do not tell lies when it comes to my > > experiences. I don't need to, it's been an incredible adventure. I've done [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Most people have done things they are proud of no matter where they came > from. But it does not matter here. Sorry, Roy, but imho, that's part of the problem in here and in the world, no one is supposed top be proud of lifting themselves up and improving themselves, or being proud they've done some more or different from everyone else. > >> Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply pushing > > your [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > respond to the people that you precieve have done this. By responding > nothing is accomplished imo. Just more of the same. Well, I see this is a point you and I will disagree on. Yes, I decide who I respond to and how I respond to them. And there have been times I have ignored remarks and names that if the person was to call me that to their face, they'd get a knuckle sandwich. OTOH, there are some in this group that care so little about others that they don't even realize when they insult someone in some fashion. Sorry, the pixels form words and words have meanings and meaning can insult and harm. > >> >> There are always people that > >> >> you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to get [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Sure it does, at least in this case. I'm not involved in bs with 3 or 4 > people No, Roy, it just means you're older and choose not to get into them since you and I are two different people. Instead, you choose to do something like this. But I'm going to ask something you don't want to answer. It takes more than one to continue or even start an argument. I reasonably sure others here can be offended by things said by someone else. So far, in the past few years, not you, nor anyone else has chosen to (correct, instruct, chide, spank, whatever you want to call it) any of them, just me. Now for the question: why? The implication to me is that you and possibly others, think it's wrong that I be offended when someone makes crude sexual comments about my wife or children, or about the things I've done in my life that others chose to not do, or to have a different interpretation of what success is or to believe as I choose. IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, but no one speaks to them about their "errors". > >> Oh ya I'm also the voice of reason.<GBFG> Now theres a jump ball!! > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I'll bet it was. <LOL> It was. I think it had a 95 inch wheelbase and close to 300 horses under the hood. I went for one ride in it before it got away from him down in Kentucky during a rainstorm and got wrapped around a tree. He spent two weeks in the hospital and lost his job at the factory because of it. Budd >> >> >> > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of >> >> > knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > someone who wasn't even there when I did what I claim tells me directly or > indirectly, that I'm a liar or that I don't know anything? Because this is not reality. This is a ng!! Nothing more, What is typed here does not matter. Sure one posting wrong or info can be aggrevating, but in the big picture it means nothing. > Sorry, I went the pacifist route for 20 years and got my face ground in > the > mud for it I guess ya should figure out then what fight to fight. One's fought here are a waste of time. Well, they are a waste of my time anyway. Maybe ya have more time to waste than I do.<G> >> > As for it being the truth, I do not tell lies when it comes to my >> > experiences. I don't need to, it's been an incredible adventure. I've [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > everyone > else. That is your ho, others may not share it. Surely you don't think that you can force your opinion on others. >> >> Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply >> >> pushing [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > someone in some fashion. Sorry, the pixels form words and words have > meanings and meaning can insult and harm. That is my point, you know the people here. You know the personality of those that care so little. What I don't get is why ya continue to converse with them. Ya know same bad well, same bad water. >> >> >> There are always people that >> >> >> you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > But I'm going to ask something you don't want to answer. Why would you think that?? >It takes more than > one to continue or even start an argument. I reasonably sure others here > can be offended by things said by someone else. So far, in the past few > years, not you, nor anyone else has chosen to (correct, instruct, chide, > spank, whatever you want to call it) any of them, just me. Then you would be wrong. > Now for the question: why? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > do, or to have a different interpretation of what success is or to believe > as I choose. I've covered this before, > IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, WTF!! Who said you are guilty of anything????? > but no > one speaks to them about their "errors". Who is talking about errors??? Just trying to point out the reality of this ng. >> > Agreed. Too bad the Paxton supercharger was running at it limits at the >> > time. Had a friend at the muffler factory that had the 289 in a Lark [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Budd Remembering when 300HP was a big deal, we are getting old<G> Roy > >> >> >> > All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of > >> >> > knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > does not matter. Sure one posting wrong or info can be aggrevating, but in > the big picture it means nothing. Roy, if you want to take it that way then that is your choice. Using that logic, then a letter with insults written or typed is just ink blotches on paper, or the posting of your sister's phone number in a men's bathroom wall is just magic marker on paint, or a person calling you an S.O.B. with his face inches from yours is just sound impulses in air. . . . .where do you draw the line between what is an insult or what is not? You made your choice as to what is an insult and I've made mine. Agreed? > > Sorry, I went the pacifist route for 20 years and got my face ground in > > the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a waste of time. Well, they are a waste of my time anyway. Maybe ya have > more time to waste than I do.<G> I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far enough, this group used to be more fun and a lot less fighting. Information was given fast and accurate. Several of us had specialties that we handled; Bryan F. - biodiesel, Nate- off road modifications, I did what I could with the older engine repairs, and there were others; you were the one helping the most to set up plow systems, Denny taught us how to look good in a bunny suit. Some have tried to say the group has progressed beyond those times, but I disagree. Politeness, peace, fun, and mutual support never go out of style, but, at times, I seem to be the only one that knows that. > >> > As for it being the truth, I do not tell lies when it comes to my > >> > experiences. I don't need to, it's been an incredible adventure. I've [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > That is your ho, others may not share it. Surely you don't think that you > can force your opinion on others. No. it's not an opinion, it's a plain truth, an observation. But answer these: what would be so wrong about each of us gaining ground in life without trampling down others? What so evil about taking a little pride in one's accomplishments? What is so detestably horrible to state that you had something happen that doesn't fit into some darn little box that someone else has decided is all that can happen? Don't make waves? if Newton hadn't, we wouldn't be flying in jet planes, if the Wrights hadn't you wouldn't be able to fly at all. > >> >> Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply > >> >> pushing [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > with them. > Ya know same bad well, same bad water. Yep, But what do you do when you can't change the well? You boil the heck out of the water. And insults to me get me boiling mad . . .at times. > >> >> >> There are always people that > >> >> >> you aren't going to get along with no matter what ya do. Trying to [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Then you would be wrong. No, I've looked. I'm always the first to get the chastisement and then I look and, nope, nothing directed to anyone else. > > Now for the question: why? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I've covered this before, Yeah, and you're doing what you accuse me of, forcing my opinions and beliefs on others. Trying to get me to do what you do with insults and arguments. > > IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, > > WTF!! Who said you are guilty of anything????? Roy, I'm simply saying what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If I'm in error, then anyone also in the argument are in error. > > but no > > one speaks to them about their "errors". > > Who is talking about errors??? Just trying to point out the reality of this > ng. No, you're chastising me for being myself and making my own choices. The reality is that each of us has to decide for ourselves what is an insult and what is not, then it is also a reality for each of us to choose to not deliver insults when we know what another is insulted by. Plain and simple and speaking only for myself: don't call me an s.o.b., don't degrade my life and it's experiences, don't insult my wife, myself, my parents or my family, don't insult my religion, politics, country, or vehicle. If I know what insults you cannot stand, then I will avoid them and if I do commit one I will apologize and it will be sincere. But I am only human so, please do not expect me to remember it word for word or read your mind to find out my mistake, please help my all too human memory. > >> > Agreed. Too bad the Paxton supercharger was running at it limits at the > >> > time. Had a friend at the muffler factory that had the 289 in a Lark [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Remembering when 300HP was a big deal, we are getting old<G> Remembering when a 150 mph "barrier" existed in USAC, NASCAR, SCTA and NHRA means you're getting old. >> > Sorry, Roy, but imho, that's part of the problem in here and in the > world, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No. it's not an opinion, it's a plain truth, an observation. >> >> Hmmm... Read what you wrote above "Sorry, Roy, but imho...." Now it is. "No. it's not an opinion, it is a plain truth, an observation." Ya lost me, but no matter. >> >> >> Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply >> >> >> pushing [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Yep, But what do you do when you can't change the well? You boil the heck > out of the water. And insults to me get me boiling mad . . .at times. I learned a long time ago that nothing is gained by "boiling the water" When you do you end up getting all pissed off and for what?? You can't change the thought process of the other party. All you end up doing is raising yer blood pressure. > No, I've looked. I'm always the first to get the chastisement and then I > look and, nope, nothing directed to anyone else. Who is being chastised???? >> I've covered this before, > > Yeah, and you're doing what you accuse me of, forcing my opinions and > beliefs on others. Trying to get me to do what you do with insults and > arguments. I started off trying to understand why you end up in so many arguments with different people. I think I understand what it is now. >> > IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > No, you're chastising me for being myself and making my own choices. Yet again. >The > reality is that each of us has to decide for ourselves what is an insult > and > what is not, then it is also a reality for each of us to choose to not > deliver insults when we know what another is insulted by. Yup. > Plain and simple and speaking only for myself: don't call me an s.o.b., > don't degrade my life and it's experiences, don't insult my wife, myself, > my > parents or my family, don't insult my religion, politics, country, or > vehicle. Well, ya just told people what buttons to push. But it is what it is. Me thinks it is time to move on. > Remembering when a 150 mph "barrier" existed in USAC, NASCAR, SCTA and > NHRA > means you're getting old. Real old. Roy >Well, ya just told people what buttons to push. But it is what it is. Me >thinks it is time to move on. Don't step over that mole hill there, bro.. it became a mountain.. *g* "Don't take life too seriously, you're not going to get out of it alive" mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>Well, ya just told people what buttons to push. But it is what it is. Me >>thinks it is time to move on. > > Don't step over that mole hill there, bro.. it became a mountain.. *g* I ain't about to. > "Don't take life too seriously, you're not going to get out of it alive" Ah, now that's the truth!!! > mac Roy > Please remove splinters before emailing > >> > Sorry, Roy, but imho, that's part of the problem in here and in the > > world, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Now it is. "No. it's not an opinion, it is a plain truth, an observation." > Ya lost me, but no matter. The opinion part is," that's part of the problem in here . . .", the rest is the observation. > >> >> >> Ya can't let folks bait you by what they write. They are simply > >> >> >> pushing [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > thought process of the other party. All you end up doing is raising yer > blood pressure. Am I? I use little conflicts in groups to let off steam from my health probs and such without "losing it" elsewhere, like towards my family, but at no time do I get mad. I will act mad long before I explode. > > No, I've looked. I'm always the first to get the chastisement and then I > > look and, nope, nothing directed to anyone else. > > Who is being chastised???? Me, by you, telling me how to act. > >> I've covered this before, > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > different people. > I think I understand what it is now. Do you? Do this: go back thru this series of posts where you started in and switch the roles. Put yourself in my position completely: old fashioned, conservative, fundamental Christian, if you can. > >> > IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yet again. And again, you are. Maybe,for some reason don't see it, but you aren't the one on the receiving end. > >The > > reality is that each of us has to decide for ourselves what is an insult [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yup. Then how am I doing it wrong? I remember having insulted you a long time back and I've tried very hard to avoid doing it again. Some in here do not have that moral limitation. > > Plain and simple and speaking only for myself: don't call me an s.o.b., > > don't degrade my life and it's experiences, don't insult my wife, myself, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, ya just told people what buttons to push. But it is what it is. Me > thinks it is time to move on. No, I've listed what "buttons" a civilized person would not push. A truly mature, civilized person would have gleaned those items from daily conversations by me. > > Remembering when a 150 mph "barrier" existed in USAC, NASCAR, SCTA and > > NHRA [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Roy Yeah, I remember Noah being concerned about the top speed of the Ark. Budd >> >> > Sorry, Roy, but imho, that's part of the problem in here and in the >> > world, [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > Me, by you, telling me how to act. I just reread the entire thread. I don;t see it but..... >> >> I've covered this before, >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > switch the roles. Put yourself in my position completely: old fashioned, > conservative, fundamental Christian, if you can. Yup, I understand, no need for role reversal. >> >> > IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, >> >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > And again, you are. Maybe,for some reason don't see it, but you aren't the > one on the receiving end. No, I truly don't see how I have chastised you in the course of this thread. Having said that, we have a difference of opinon I guess, but that is what makes things go 'round. >> >The >> > reality is that each of us has to decide for ourselves what is an [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > back and I've tried very hard to avoid doing it again. Some in here do not > have that moral limitation. I guess that we have a difference regards to the weight of a insult, and ones reaction to it. Also I guess the need to react in this type of forum. We have beaten this to death imo, time to move on > Yeah, I remember Noah being concerned about the top speed of the Ark. Guess you are older, I don't remember Noah. Roy > Budd > >> >> > Sorry, Roy, but imho, that's part of the problem in here and in the > >> > world, [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > I just reread the entire thread. I don;t see it but..... It's there, my friend, but no matter. <BG> > >> >> I've covered this before, > >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Yup, I understand, no need for role reversal. Thank you. > >> >> > IMHO, they are every bit as guilty as I, if I am guilty of anything, > >> >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Having said that, we have a difference of opinon I guess, but that is what > makes things go 'round. It is for sure. The truly odd thing about it all is when you have a person that has declared their ability to tolerate other personalities, beliefs and all, turns out to be someone not so tolerant after all. All it takes is a bit of respect for each other and to not push buttons just because you can or because you get some perverse thrill from it ( uh, not meaning you personally, Roy, just a "person".) > >> >The > >> > reality is that each of us has to decide for ourselves what is an [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ones reaction to it. Also I guess the need to react in this type of forum. > We have beaten this to death imo, time to move on Sounds good to me. I only ask to be treated with a little respect towards my personal choices by others which is no more than they deserve for their choices. The big difference is I'm less likely to use some terminology that others consider "everyday speech". > > Yeah, I remember Noah being concerned about the top speed of the Ark. > > Guess you are older, I don't remember Noah. > > Roy Well, truthfully, I only read about him. <BG> Budd I've gotta give you credit Roy, you held your tongue and apparently did it with a straight face, or fingers, or something. You're a better man than I.......... but it was fun to read. > I've gotta give you credit Roy, you held your tongue and apparently did it > with a straight face, or fingers, or something. You're a better man than > I.......... but it was fun to read. What can I say? I've become the voice of reason.<GBFG> Roy >> I've gotta give you credit Roy, you held your tongue and apparently did it >> with a straight face, or fingers, or something. You're a better man than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Roy damn, we ARE in trouble... rofl mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>> I've gotta give you credit Roy, you held your tongue and apparently did >>> it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> > damn, we ARE in trouble... rofl Yup!!<G> Roy > mac > > Please remove splinters before emailing > I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far > enough, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the most to set up plow systems, Denny taught us how to look good in a > bunny suit. I'm sitting here behaving myself and then I find falsehoods thrown at me. None of you suckers look good in a bunny suit and there ain't enough time to show you.. <BG> Denny >> I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far >> enough, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > None of you suckers look good in a bunny suit and there ain't enough time > to show you.. <BG> There are pictures around.<G> Roy > Denny >>> I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far >>> enough, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > There are pictures around.<G> I'll get even with ole Red for that...... Denny I didn't say we had succeeded in looking as furry as you. > > I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far > > enough, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Denny >I didn't say we had succeeded in looking as furry as you. Ya'll may be as furry but you'll never be as good looking... Denny Now that depends on who you ask . . .I've lost 45 pounds ya know . . . See, I can diet . . . . . VBG Budd > >I didn't say we had succeeded in looking as furry as you. > > Ya'll may be as furry but you'll never be as good looking... > > Denny Yeah my friend lost 110 lbs, got his wife off his back :))) On 11/6/05 11:18 PM, in article GsBbf.1511$lg.41@news01.roc.ny, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@SPAM.citlink.net> wrote: > Now that depends on who you ask . . .I've lost 45 pounds ya know . . . > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Denny BTDT . . .after my divorce in 73 and it was 105 pounds. -- Budd Cochran > Yeah my friend lost 110 lbs, got his wife off his back :))) > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >> > >> Denny > BTDT . . .after my divorce in 73 and it was 105 pounds. If your divorce was anything like mine when the judge (a woman ) got done with me I about couldn't afford to eat. Hell, a person in a third world country had more cash than I did. Talk about a kick in the balls diet! That only lasted a couple of years though. Roy > Budd Cochran > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> >> >> Denny >> BTDT . . .after my divorce in 73 and it was 105 pounds. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Roy Both of my Divorces were "California community property" ones, where you split everything... She got the house and stuff, I got the bills... and they were both still great investments.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing a friend of mine went through a divorce a while back. he got the house she took the car and everything else (even his clothes LOL) fortunately he's enlisted and had just got back from a tour so he had a duffel with some fatiges. > >> BTDT . . .after my divorce in 73 and it was 105 pounds. > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Please remove splinters before emailing I think mine might have been a tad worse . . .she made three attempts to kill me, personally, and each of her boyfriends tried at least one attempt each . . .I quit counting after the 15th guy. Actually, I came out ahead . . I got rid of her and her drug / booze / party habits. In six months I had all our bills caught back up. When she began running off to Kentucky to deny me visitations with our son, I sued for relief from the court ordered child support. It helped to have proof the money wasn't going for his care and witnesses (my present wife) to the trips to Kentucky. The cool part was the judge that rescinded the support order was a lady. -- Budd Cochran > > BTDT . . .after my divorce in 73 and it was 105 pounds. > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >> >> > >> >> Denny >> I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far >> enough, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Denny I that a fact or opinion, Buggs? mac Please remove splinters before emailing dream?? -- Budd Cochran > >> I don't really have more time than you, but if you remember back far > >> enough, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Please remove splinters before emailing >> All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of knowledge, >> which seems to be denied to me and anyone else reading the thread. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Roy you haven't KF'd me yet? damn! mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>> All I've done is try share some experience and to gain a bit of >>> knowledge, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > mac Nah bro, I'm a softy for old hippies.VBG> Roy > Please remove splinters before emailing >> ? i have _no_ idea what youre referencing. do you have an online source >> available to show/tell me a little more about it? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >at stock ride and the overload springs were still bolted to the axle. >Worked for me. Air springs (Air Lift or Firestone) DO work reasonably well. Since air is compressible, you still have suspension. They work best with an onboard compressor - just like with air shocks - either the old Gabriel HighJacker or original equipment air assist units as supplied by Chrysler for level control on vehicles like the FWD V6 New Yorkers, or GM on the TransSports etc. This allows you do "dial in" the amount of suspension assist you need. The air springs carry the load directly to the frame, rather than through the shock mounts like the air assist shocks (level control) They are connected together so a leak will allways affect both sides evenly - no crabbing whenone lets go - and because the line between them is fair |
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