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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / November 2005no oil
I have a 1986 dodge 318 that is not getting any oil to the heads. Are the pushrods in this engine supposed to have holes in them or does it oil some other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. Oil comes from the mains up to the rocker shaft stands. Then thru the shafts to the rockers. What kind of general shape is the engine in? Lots of miles with few oil changes? Has it been sitting for a bunch of years? -- Budd Cochran > I have a 1986 dodge 318 that is not getting any oil to the heads. Are the > pushrods in this engine supposed to have holes in them or does it oil some > other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. engine is in a daily driver that was running fine. It burned a valve and when I pulled the valve covers I found the oil problem. Oil gets changed regularly. It has been running this way for a while because the rockers are badly worn and the heads and lifter gallery are dry. > Oil comes from the mains up to the rocker shaft stands. Then thru the shafts > to the rockers. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > pushrods in this engine supposed to have holes in them or does it oil some > > other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. If it's a "daily driver" then something's been neglected, like oil and oil filter changes. It appears you have sludge blocked passages. Time for some R&R, I'm afraid. -- Budd Cochran > engine is in a daily driver that was running fine. It burned a valve and > when I pulled the valve covers I found the oil problem. Oil gets changed [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > some > > > other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. Thanks for the info. > If it's a "daily driver" then something's been neglected, like oil and oil > filter changes. It appears you have sludge blocked passages. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > some > > > > other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. You're welcome. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. > Thanks for the info. > > If it's a "daily driver" then something's been neglected, like oil and oil [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > some > > > > > other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. >I have a 1986 dodge 318 that is not getting any oil to the heads. Are the >pushrods in this engine supposed to have holes in them or does it oil some >other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. IIREC the oil comes up to the rockers around one of the head bolts. If crappy oil has been used, or the oil has been changed less often than required, the space around the head bolt gets filled with sludge/carbon and blocks up. Have to find out which head bolt it follows and see if you can remove the bolt without breaking it, then crank the engine over (likely best to remove spark plugs) and see if you get oil coming up the bolt hole. If so, spray liberally with carb cleaner, and wire-brush the bolt to provide clearance for the oil. Then use a MILD engine flush agent - like a quart of ATF or Rislone per oil change, and change oil every 500 miles or so for a couple of changes - then recheck the oil situation and replace worn rocker components if the problem is solved. Do BOTH sides, right away. I've had the problem on several older vehicles - AMC 232 for one, and a Ford V8, and I THINK on a few diverse Chryslers as well - but cannot remember 100%. I do remeber doing it a dozen times or so over 30 years of active wrenching. > I have a 1986 dodge 318 that is not getting any oil to the heads. Are the > pushrods in this engine supposed to have holes in them or does it oil some > other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. Hi Rick, The rocker gear receives oil thru one of the pedestals in the head that support the shaft. On the driver's side, it's the second from the front; on the passenger side, it's the second from the rear. The oil travels thru the hollow rocker shaft and exits to the rockers thru drilled holes on the bottom side of the shaft. I've seen shafts installed with the oil holes pointing up, which will quickly destroy the rockers. I once bought a 340 shortblock. Some bozo thought he could install a set of T/A rockers that are cast steel adjustables (instead of stamped steel non-adjustables like all other other LA engine rockers). The rockers received no oil and were seized to the shafts because the shafts were installed with the oil holes pointing up. In your case, it's easy to check -- remove the valve covers and look at the rocker shafts. If you see an oil hole at each rocker, the shafts are installed wrong, and you likely need new rockers (and possibly also new shafts). Bryan '68 340-S Barracuda fastback '69 340-S Barracuda ragged top >I have a 1986 dodge 318 that is not getting any oil to the heads. Are the >pushrods in this engine supposed to have holes in them or does it oil some >other way? I've only worked on chevys until now. Here's a trick you can try. Drain the oil and refill with ATF. Let the engine idle for 15 to 20 minutes, DON'T DRIVE IT, and let the fluid disolve the oil sludge. Drain the fluid and while the plug is out spray carberator cleaner on the oil pump intake screen if you can. Change the oil filter, and refill with oil. Change the oil and filter in another week. beekeep That would probably work and that would be a HUGE mistake. If the heads have been runny dry long enough to trash the rockers, I would say that the seals and guides are pretty much toast as well. Re-introducing oil flow at this time would probably result in turning the engine into a killer smoke bomb and make the vehicle undrivable. I would follow Budds advice and look into a rebuild or if you do try this method, have a set of rebuilt heads and gaskets ready as you may need them really soon.  SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > >I have a 1986 dodge 318 that is not getting any oil to the heads. Are the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > beekeep >That would probably work and that would be a HUGE mistake. If the heads >have been runny dry long enough to trash the rockers, I would say that the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >into a rebuild or if you do try this method, have a set of rebuilt heads and >gaskets ready as you may need them really soon. Hey, it's worth a try, isn't it? The engine will be trash if oiling is not restored, and there is a chance restoring oiling will solve the problem WITHOUT causing it to smoke. Would definitely NOT be the first one. I had a '65 Rambler with the same problem that I figured was not worth dissassembling to fix, so I fed oil to the rocker shaft with a piece of brake tube connected to a "T" at the oil pressure switch. Shut up the squeaky rockers, and no oil consumption problems. > >That would probably work and that would be a HUGE mistake. If the heads > >have been runny dry long enough to trash the rockers, I would say that the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of brake tube connected to a "T" at the oil pressure switch. Shut up > the squeaky rockers, and no oil consumption problems. I made that mistake with my 62 Ford Falcon. That engine was notorious for it plugging up the oil feed to the head and when I got this one, it was like that for a while. The rockers were so worn out from it, they could barely open the valves. At first I just cranked back down on the adjusters to correct the valve lash and would pour STP over the rocker assembly once a week. Since there was no oil flow, there was no need to worry about the valve cover gasket so it was easy to do and the engine ran fine. After I gave the car to my father he decided to see if he could clear the clogged port and unfortunately, we were successful. Not only was the rocker assembly well lubricated, there were no surviving mosquitoes for miles and the vehicle became close to useless. I would suggest that if the OP wants to try this method, he first remove the valve covers and with the engine running, pour some hot oil over those rocker assemblies and see if it smokes. If not, try beekeeps method to clear it and if successful, just replace the rocker assembly in each head. If it does, then he could still attempt this and if successful, replace the heads. Either way, it will save money over a complete rebuild but the main problem would be that the engine could still have other problems due to possible neglect. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > >That would probably work and that would be a HUGE mistake. If the heads > > >have been runny dry long enough to trash the rockers, I would say that [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > -- > If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving Is it possible to get push rods and lifters for this engine with the oil holes in them? The heads are off getting a valve job done now. I can spin the oil pump with a screw driver buy hand and I get oil to the lifters. If I push all the lifters up in there bores I can feel the pump build pressure but nothing comes out of the holes to the heads. I can stick a wire in the holes and it goes all the way to the cam. Are you sure you are reaching the cam? If a cam bearing moved just a few degrees, no oil to the heads. Drilled passages in the cam journals regulate the flow, but have to line up with holes in the bearings. Is the cam getting oil? Has the engine ever been rebuilt? Could it be the bearings were installed wrong Btw, AMC V-8 lifters are the same diameter and hollow pushrods can be made up, but there's no hole in the pushrod socket on the rocker, iirc. -- Budd Cochran > > > >That would probably work and that would be a HUGE mistake. If the > heads [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > but nothing comes out of the holes to the heads. I can stick a wire in the > holes and it goes all the way to the cam. I don't know if the engine has ever been rebuilt, but my rockers do have oil holes in the socket. > Are you sure you are reaching the cam? If a cam bearing moved just a few > degrees, no oil to the heads. Drilled passages in the cam journals regulate [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > but nothing comes out of the holes to the heads. I can stick a wire in the > > holes and it goes all the way to the cam. Then the AMC lifters would do the trick, probably, but if the bearings are mis-aligned, then you will be getting oil to the lifters either. Personally, tear it down, have the block hot tanked and/or all passages rodded out, rebuild and drive on. -- Budd Cochran > I don't know if the engine has ever been rebuilt, but my rockers do have oil > holes in the socket. [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > the > > > holes and it goes all the way to the cam. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > > >That would probably work and that would be a HUGE mistake. If the [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > but nothing comes out of the holes to the heads. I can stick a wire in the > holes and it goes all the way to the cam. I doubt that you could and even if you did, it wouldn't work. You would never get enough lubrication to the rocker shafts that way if you could get any at all.and they might even cause an oil starvation problem to the mains and cam. You might not see any flow to the heads turning it by hand because you are not spinning the pump fast enough and are losing to much oil in the crank and cam bearings. Buy or fabricate a drive shaft for the pump and spin it with a drill (high powered, slow speed) to view proper operation before bolting the heads back on. The oil only comes up thru 1 port on each side. It is toward the rear on the right head (second bracket from the rear on the head) and the front on the left (second bracket from the front on the head). > -- > If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > on the head) and the front on the left (second bracket from the front on the > head). I have been looking for a primer shaft but can't find one for a dodge. Is the distributer gear pressed on the oil pump shaft? > > -- > > If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > I have been looking for a primer shaft but can't find one for a dodge. Is > the distributer gear pressed on the oil pump shaft? I believe so but the gear and shaft can be lifted out as you must have already done to turn the pump. Just make sure that when you put it back you index it properly since your distributor timing depends on it. I don't remember what I used the last time I rebuilt a 360. I do remember using a long 3/8 socket extension and my large right angle drill. I don't remember if the extension fit into the pump drive directly or if I was using a hex socket that did on the end of it. The memory fades when you get older and I ain't that old yet, very scary. If you do need to use a socket, make sure it fits tightly on the extension. You really don't want to lose the socket in there or have it fall off in the pump drive. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving Rick, The pump drive is a hex drive, 5/16" across the flats, iirc I made one out of a section of an old Allen hex key wrench and a 5/16" steel rod, brazed together. You need to pull the intermediate shaft out to get at it. I suggest you bring number one cylinder up on compression first then if you rotate the engine, which you will if you want to check upper oiling, make sure you bring it back to the same position before assembling the engine. In the proper position, the distributor rotor will point toward number one cylinder. -- Budd Cochran > > -- > > If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > I have been looking for a primer shaft but can't find one for a dodge. Is > the distributer gear pressed on the oil pump shaft? >Rick, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >-- >Budd Cochran Even if it's on the exhaust stroke? beekeep Come on, Greg. Not you too. <BG> Read it again. I told him to make sure it was on the compression stroke to start with and even if all he's ever worked on is Chevy's he should know it needs to be on the compression stroke (top Dead Center) when installing a distributor. -- Budd Cochran news:436a7b53.187864640@news.radix.net... > >Rick, > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > beekeep >Come on, Greg. Not you too. <BG> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >-- >Budd Cochran It makes little difference really as all that has to be done is lifting the distributor and bringing up the #1 cylinder again. Hey do you remember back when we didn't need to worry about oil to the heads? Just had to stop every few miles and squirt a little whale oil on the lifters. beekeep > >Come on, Greg. Not you too. <BG> > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It makes little difference really as all that has to be done is > lifting the distributor and bringing up the #1 cylinder again. Actually, all you need to do is find where the rotor points when No. 1 is at TDC on compression then install the plug wires in the correct order and rotation from that point. > Hey do you remember back when we didn't need to worry about oil to the > heads? Just had to stop every few miles and squirt a little whale oil > on the lifters. > > beekeep Greg, ya'll been lyin' to us. Ya had me thinking you was younger than me, but since I ain't old enough to remember using whale oil, then you must be a lot older'n me. Budd (feeling like a kid again.) Does the cam have to be in a certain position to feed oil to the heads? > Rick, > [quoted text clipped - 131 lines] > > I have been looking for a primer shaft but can't find one for a dodge. Is > > the distributer gear pressed on the oil pump shaft? >Does the cam have to be in a certain position to feed oil to the heads? From what I remeber, yes. the hole in the camshaft has to line up with the hole in the bearing to suirt the oil into the gallery. Yep. Didn't I mention this? Sorry. The oil is supplied from the main bearings to the cam bearings, thru drilled passages in the cam journals, which have to properly line up, to feed the rockers. -- Budd Cochran > Does the cam have to be in a certain position to feed oil to the heads? > > Rick, [quoted text clipped - 157 lines] > Is > > > the distributer gear pressed on the oil pump shaft? |
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