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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / February 20065th wheel Towing Limits w/3500 Dually
I'm getting mixed information, so I thought I'd ask the experts in this group. The wife and I are looking at possibly purchasing a Holiday Rambler "Presidential" model 36SKQ 5th wheel trailer. According to the documentation for the trailer, it says: fully loaded GVWR - 16,950 lbs Hitch weight - 2,280 lbs So the question of this group is, can I legally and safely tow this unit with the current model Dodge 3500 dually (diesel). If not, what is the recommended tow vehicle? Thanks Bill About 21000 with the automatic .373 rear end and about 23000 with .411 rear end. Here's the web site to figure it for yourself. http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/dispatch.do  SignatureMoParMaN---Remove Clothes To Reply! --SCUD Coordinates 32.61204 North: 96.92993 West-- > I'm getting mixed information, so I thought I'd ask the experts in this > group. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks > Bill Thank you !!!!!!! >About 21000 with the automatic .373 rear end and about 23000 with .411 rear >end. > >Here's the web site to figure it for yourself. > >http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/dispatch.do > Thank you !!!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/dispatch.do I bit ridiculous from safety standpoint though because I hauled 23K grain trailer over 25 years ago with a HD GMC 4x4 3/4 pickup (back when they were still real trucks) and power was not a issue but one time I lost trailer brakes and stopping was a REAL problem as it easily skidded the truck. Detroit is getting out of line with some of their tow ratings these days. I do not carry how big a engine you put in the truck, you need an bigger/heavier tow vehicle to effectively control 21K on open road when things go bad. Signature----------------- www.thesnoman.com > lost trailer brakes and stopping was a REAL problem as it easily skidded > the truck. Detroit is getting out of line with some of their tow ratings > these days. Don't you think braking ability has improved just a little bit since the 80's? You know... 17" wheels.... 4-wheel discs... bigger rotors... multi-piston calipers... etc. etc. Oh yeah - those diesels that you hate so much? They work great with an exhaust brake. > truck, you need an bigger/heavier tow vehicle to effectively control 21K > on open road when things go bad. We're talking a 16K load - as I believe the 21K/23K was incorrect. >> Thank you !!!!!!! >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > an bigger/heavier tow vehicle to effectively control 21K on open road when > things go bad. I do it all the time and have no problems... I'm pretty sure it's because there is no GM product in any of my Dodge Trucks. SignatureMoParMaN---Remove Clothes To Reply! --SCUD Coordinates 32.61204 North: 96.92993 West-- >About 21000 with the automatic .373 rear end and about 23000 with .411 rear >end. > >Here's the web site to figure it for yourself. > >http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/dispatch.do Actually the numbers you cite are GCWR (Gross combined weight, trailer + tow vehicle). The trailer alone GVWR is 16,950 which looks to be 1100 lbs over the 3500's maximum rated towing capacity (properly equipped). OKay it's close enough you could probably do it, but I'm hearing you should never operate near or at max rated limits. I'm hearing you should derate by 20% just as a good rule of thumb. Who's right? I have a 97 Ram 2500 w/V10, auto, with a 5th wheel and I tow a 36 Foot Seirra trailer with it all the time with no problems, also have an electric brake for it. > About 21000 with the automatic .373 rear end and about 23000 with .411 > rear end. How do you figure that? Using their towing guide, I can't seem to find a configuration rated over 16,250lbs. >> About 21000 with the automatic .373 rear end and about 23000 with .411 >> rear end. > > How do you figure that? Using their towing guide, I can't seem to find a > configuration rated over 16,250lbs. I just printed it from the dodge web site. That's how I figured it. SignatureMoParMaN---Remove Clothes To Reply! --SCUD Coordinates 32.61204 North: 96.92993 West-- >> How do you figure that? Using their towing guide, I can't seem to find a >> configuration rated over 16,250lbs. >I just printed it from the dodge web site. That's how I figured it. The figure you're talking about is GCWR which is Gross Combined Weight Rating, in other words, Tow vehicle + trailer. The same site you referred me to shows a max towing weight of 15850 (or thereabouts). The trailer I'm looking at buying has a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 16,950 lbs which is the trailer empty weight + all contents, water, propane bottles + all your personal crap). Where I come from 16950 - 15850 = 1100 lbs too heavy for the max limit of the 3500 Dodge dually. The point of all this is you're operating beyond the manufacturer's safe operating design limit. Sure the truck could could pull that much and likely a lot more, but at 16950 lbs you're over the *rated* limit. This "rumor" I'm hearing about a heavier-rated '07 3500 dually might be worth waiting for. Anyone know if there's anything to it? The new Ford 350 has a 19000 lb rating, too bad it's got an International engine in it. <SNIP> >This "rumor" I'm hearing about a heavier-rated '07 3500 dually might be >worth waiting for. Anyone know if there's anything to it? The new Ford 350 >has a 19000 lb rating, too bad it's got an International engine in it. I was in the Local Dealership asking similar towing questions. I would, most likely have a 3500 on order now and buy a smaller 5th wheel except for the fact that the 'Fleet Truck'guy said, "Unless you are in a hurry you might want to hold off on ordering until the 07's are announced, rumor has it that they will have bigger ratings." Even though I show quotes, those are not the exact words, but close. I did not place an order, I'm waiting. First time ever something like that has happened to me at a dealership. Being told to wait 6 months to buy a truck. I would not push the envelope on max ratings although some do without apparent problems. Usually the same ones who blow past you at 85 or 90 mph. I want to chug along at 60 to 65 while towing and have a relaxing drive, not tense expecting things might swarm on me at any second. That's why I like to stay at least 10% under the max ratings. Ed >I was in the Local Dealership asking similar towing questions. I would, >most likely have a 3500 on order now and buy a smaller 5th wheel except [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >order, I'm waiting. First time ever something like that has happened to >me at a dealership. Being told to wait 6 months to buy a truck. I read your earlier post Ed and so while at the dealership last night I posed that very question to the salesman & his manager. The salesman denied any knowledge. Sales Mgr said something to the effect that he too had not heard about it, but agreed it would be nice. Of course they're in the midst of a very slow sales period and it was chilly & pouring rain. They naturally offered to let us take a new dually out for a test drive and even keep it overnight, but considering the ugly weather we declined. I *DID* come away with some brochures and the max towing weights are all right there in black and white and are quite easy to understand; The MAXIMUM *TOWING* CAPACITY of the '06 Ram 3500 is 16,250 pounds - but read the fine print... The fine print says "WHEN PROPERLY EQUIPPED". As applied to the 3500, "Properly Equipped" to achieve the mythical 16,250-Lb maximum towing capacity means precisely **ALL FOUR** of the following restrictions: 1 - SINGLE Rear Wheels! (Sorry dually fans, the DRW option extracts a 400-Lb towing penalty for the added weight of the DRW option) 2 - 2 Wheel Drive! (Sorry again 4X4 fans, the 4X4 option extracts another 400-Lb penalty for the added weight of that option. 3 - 4.10:1 rear axle ratio (with the 3.73 you lose 2000 lbs capacity and that's a pretty big number to lose) 4 - Automatic transmission The "17,000" and "23,000" numbers someone else was quoting are the gross *COMBINED* weight ratings (GCWR). This term "combined" means the tow vehicle weight plus the weight of the towed load (truck + trailer) >I would not push the envelope on max ratings although some do without >apparent problems. Usually the same ones who blow past you at 85 or 90 >mph. I want to chug along at 60 to 65 while towing and have a relaxing >drive, not tense expecting things might swarm on me at any second. >That's why I like to stay at least 10% under the max ratings. Max ratings are exactly that, *MAX* - personally I'd feel safer at 20% under, which to me makes it look more and more like the "proper" vehicle for us may turn out to be a Ford or Chevy 4500 (since Dodge apparently doesn't make one). That would be a bit of a heartbreaker to me since I'd much prefer having the Cummins engine. I also wonder what the drag coefficient (wind load resistance) at 65 mph adds to the TOWING weight. Pulling 16,000 lbs with a nice tail wind is a lot different than pulling into a head wind, especially when your trailer is 13' high. No argument either that the DUALLY adds stability to handling, and at only a 400-Lb weight penalty is definitely worth having. Bill >The MAXIMUM *TOWING* CAPACITY of the '06 Ram 3500 is 16,250 pounds - but >read the fine print... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >4 - Automatic transmission The '98 and '99 brochures also had the words "...satisfactory towing performance...". So if your expectations are high (I want to climb the Eisenhower grade or Grapevine at 90 mph pulling 16,250 lbs and get 20 mpg), you'll be disappointed because your definition of satisfactory is grossly different from that of the designers/engineers. Greg The trailer I'm looking at buying has a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of 16,950 lbs > which is the trailer empty weight + all contents, water, propane bottles + > all your personal crap). Where I come from 16950 - 15850 = 1100 lbs too > heavy for the max limit of the 3500 Dodge dually. So, I guess I'm asking the obvious, what do you tow the trailer with?? >The trailer I'm looking at buying has a GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) >of 16,950 lbs >> which is the trailer empty weight + all contents, water, propane bottles + >> all your personal crap). Where I come from 16950 - 15850 = 1100 lbs too >> heavy for the max limit of the 3500 Dodge dually. >So, I guess I'm asking the obvious, what do you tow the trailer with?? Well, if you're truly interested in "safely" towing and being well within rated specifications and even 10% or more under for that extra margin of safety, it won't be with a Dodge or any other 2500 or 3500. You're going to need a 1½ ton (4500) which I don't see in the Dodge lineup. Point is 90% or more of big 5th wheel owners *DO* tow successfully with 2500s and 3500s because anything heavier is just too expensive. That still doesn't make it right. Last thing I'd want to purchase "used" is someone's tired old 2500 or 3500 that's been dragging 16~17,000 pounds all of its life. One would think that towing loads exceeding the manufacturer's rated specs would in some way violate terms of your warranty. > One would think that towing loads exceeding the manufacturer's rated specs > would in some way violate terms of your warranty. Not to mention violating your wallet if the DOT ever decides to check you out. As for costs, you'd be surprised at the cost difference (or lack thereof) between a fully-loaded 1-ton pickup and a decently-configured medium-duty truck (like an FL50). >> One would think that towing loads exceeding the manufacturer's rated specs >> would in some way violate terms of your warranty. >Not to mention violating your wallet if the DOT ever decides to check you >out. True, although I think here you're more apt to get stung on GCWR. >As for costs, you'd be surprised at the cost difference (or lack thereof) >between a fully-loaded 1-ton pickup and a decently-configured medium-duty >truck (like an FL50). But the tow vehicle has to perform double duty as your sole means of transportation once you get there. I had a hard enough time selling the little wife on the pickup truck concept, then sneaking in the part about it having DRW. Anything bigger I'm afraid might make her start to chicken out and want to rethink this whole cockamamie idea. This retirement thing and moving into a 300 sq ft living area has to be 50-50. I don't want to end up always having to be the one who goes out shopping for groceries or running errands ;-) > But the tow vehicle has to perform double duty as your sole means of > transportation once you get there. I see. Yep - that's a problem, then. Maybe hang a Jeep on the back of the 5'er? :) >> But the tow vehicle has to perform double duty as your sole means of >> transportation once you get there. >I see. Yep - that's a problem, then. Maybe hang a Jeep on the back of the >5'er? :) I don't think there's any state in the union where you can tandem-tow behind a 5th wheeler. (nor would I ever be inclined to attempt it) > >> But the tow vehicle has to perform double duty as your sole means of > >> transportation once you get there. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I don't think there's any state in the union where you can tandem-tow > behind a 5th wheeler. (nor would I ever be inclined to attempt it) i see it all the time round here. (not that i would do it either) most who are doing it are pulling the 5er and a bass boat Signature-Chris 05 CTD 99 Durango I've seen boats on our highways towed behind a fiver but this was some years back; so, I reckon that it can be done. Haven't seen any lately though because my RVing days ended just shortly after Ivan here when somebody bought the trailer and truck. SignaturePcolaPhil To <Reply> remove -SPAMNOT- "If you can't be happy where you are, it's a cinch you won't be happy where you ain't." | >> But the tow vehicle has to perform double duty as your sole means of | >> transportation once you get there. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | I don't think there's any state in the union where you can tandem-tow | behind a 5th wheeler. (nor would I ever be inclined to attempt it) |
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