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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / February 2006Caution: Driver doesn't give a sh.t
R Philip Dowds wrote: > PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either > terrorists or global warming, but rather by other drivers. So, if I > wanted to save American lives, would my best shot be spending a > kerjillion billion dollars on invading Iraq? Or on a nationwide highway > safety program? Yesterday I saw this bumper sticker on a Hummer: "Caution: Driver doesn't give a sh.t"... :( And soon enough he cut off another car. I wonder if the authorities know about this kind of terrorism, of if they too give a sh.t about it. WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE http://webspawner.com/users/nolionnoproblem Sounds like all the damn drivers here in AZ. Yesterday, I had to lay my bike down to avoid hitting a little b%tch (about 17 years old) who cut me off. >R Philip Dowds wrote: >> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE > http://webspawner.com/users/nolionnoproblem > R Philip Dowds wrote: >> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And soon enough he cut off another car. Bet he lives in Massachusetts and wonders why his insurance costs so much... > I wonder if the authorities know about this kind of terrorism, of if > they too give a sh.t about it. > > WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE > http://webspawner.com/users/nolionnoproblem  SignatureA young girl I know told me I drive like an old man I told her, actually, I drive like Mario Andretti. It's just that too many other people on the road drive like Paul Tracy... Venture Rider wrote: > On 13 Feb 2006 15:59:15 -0800, donquijote1954 said: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is this the new American thing, now? Everything is "terrorism"? Yep, anything that terrorizes another is terrorism, particularly if it is intentional and totally preventable, for example a lady in L.A. who called 911 over someone pulling a gun on her. I would call this terrorism ROAD TERRORISM. "Road rage (also road violence, road terrorism) is the common name for deliberately dangerous and/or violent behaviour under the influence of heightened anger, by any motor vehicle operator, affecting the safety of one or more other operators or bystanders." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rage >R Philip Dowds wrote: >> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I wonder if the authorities know about this kind of terrorism, of if > they too give a sh.t about it. "Hello 911? This a.shole just pulled a really dangerous move, and I could swear I saw her swigging from a Budweiser bottle. She's going west on route..." >>R Philip Dowds wrote: >>> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >swear I saw her swigging from a Budweiser bottle. She's going west on >route..." better than telling them that she cut in front of you making you spill your beer and drop the shells you were reloading with.. *g* Mac https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm A lady was watching TV when a news bulletin came on stating a car was driving in the wrong direction on the interstate. Her father was coming to her house via that interstate so she called him on his cell phone to warn him. She said, 'Dad be careful there is car going the wrong way on the road you are on. He said 'One car, are you kidding, there are a whole bunch of them passing me going the wrong way. mike hunt > "Hello 911? This a.shole just pulled a really dangerous move, and I could > swear I saw her swigging from a Budweiser bottle. She's going west on > route..." >A lady was watching TV when a news bulletin came on stating a car was >driving in the wrong direction on the interstate. Her father was coming to >her house via that interstate so she called him on his cell phone to warn >him. She said, 'Dad be careful there is car going the wrong way on the >road you are on. He said 'One car, are you kidding, there are a whole >bunch of them passing me going the wrong way. <drum crash!> "Is this an audience, or an oil painting?" -Henny Youngman > A lady was watching TV when a news bulletin came on stating a car was > driving in the wrong direction on the interstate. Her father was coming to > her house via that interstate so she called him on his cell phone to warn > him. She said, 'Dad be careful there is car going the wrong way on the road > you are on. He said 'One car, are you kidding, there are a whole bunch of > them passing me going the wrong way. Oh, holly cow, he too got a LICENSE TO KILL. :) >>R Philip Dowds wrote: >>> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > swear I saw her swigging from a Budweiser bottle. She's going west on > route..." Actually, we have in NJ a special phone number exactly for that. *77 (star 77) is the 'Aggressive Driver Hotline' specifically for reporting aggressive drivers. Tomes > Actually, we have in NJ a special phone number exactly for that. *77 > (star 77) is the 'Aggressive Driver Hotline' specifically for reporting > aggressive drivers. > Tomes If NJ still has some of those insane rotary intersections, it's no wonder there are aggressive drivers. :-) I wonder if those were a contribution by Robert Moses during one of his civic engineering hallucinations. >> Actually, we have in NJ a special phone number exactly for that. *77 >> (star 77) is the 'Aggressive Driver Hotline' specifically for reporting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > there are aggressive drivers. :-) I wonder if those were a contribution by > Robert Moses during one of his civic engineering hallucinations. Yep, we still have them, lol. I live right near the 3 of them in Flemington. At least they have now put up yield signs up in the non-dominant flow directions. I remember when I was a kid the drivers' manual said regarding circle rules: 'local custom'. If you did not know the local custom it was an adventure indeed. Having grew up with them I see them as no problem at all, but I need to watch out for those that have less experience with the adventure. There is now a slow moving program to eliminate the large circles, some in total, some in part. Tomes - from the land of the first jughandle, NJ >> If NJ still has some of those insane rotary intersections, it's no >> wonder there are aggressive drivers. :-) I wonder if those were a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > some in total, some in part. Tomes > - from the land of the first jughandle, NJ The last time I was in NJ, 1977 I think, the first car in the left turn lane went before the cars coming in the opposite direction through lane. The rest in line in the turn lane had to wait for the through lane to clear before making a left turn. Caused some unique reactions from the locals when I forgot this custom. Also, a local company merged with a company in NJ and quite a few NJersians were transplanted here. Took a while for some of them to get over this same habit. davidj92 >>> If NJ still has some of those insane rotary intersections, it's no >>> wonder there are aggressive drivers. :-) I wonder if those were a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > while for some of them to get over this same habit. > davidj92 Yep, this is how it works here for a regular stop light with a left turn lane, or even at a stop light without a special left turn lane. This is just common sense here in NJ (from an NJ perspective, lol). The lights turn green in both directions and the first in the left turn lane easily and without any problem just darts through to make his left turn before the oncoming traffic even has a chance to get within the intersection. Easy as cake. I do this everywhere out of NJ and never found it to be a problem anywhere else. Actually, most times if it has a left turn lane, it has a green arrow that makes the left turn go in protected mode before oncoming traffic goes green (although in rare cases it allows the left turn to go last instead of first). Tomes >>>> If NJ still has some of those insane rotary intersections, it's no >>>> wonder there are aggressive drivers. :-) I wonder if those were a [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >last instead of first). >Tomes Have fun IF you visit CAFA land ... IF you cause -any- oncoming car to apply it's brakes, you've made an illegal (and ticketable) 'left turn'. In NV, it's quite common, for the time of day, to have the timing of the left turn arrows move from first to last. The flow is computer synchronized and this permits the most flow in the major direction. >>>>> If NJ still has some of those insane rotary intersections, it's no >>>>> wonder there are aggressive drivers. :-) I wonder if those were a [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > synchronized > and this permits the most flow in the major direction. One of my big complaints around here is the stupidity of the lights. I wish I had ones as intelligent as yours. I want to see variable timing dependant upon traffic density. I want to see it go to blinking red/yellow when there is no traffic at night in rural areas. Tomes, who is not holding his breath on this Suddenly, without warning, Tomes exclaimed (17-Feb-06 10:12 PM): >>> Actually, we have in NJ a special phone number exactly for that. *77 >>> (star 77) is the 'Aggressive Driver Hotline' specifically for reporting [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Tomes > - from the land of the first jughandle, NJ They're called roundabouts here in the UK, extremely common. When everybody knows the rules (car on the right has right of way, for instance) they actually work better than traffic lights to keep things flowing. Of course, this is the UK so that doesn't always work out either. I'm not sure how your NJ rotaries work, I know that the two traffic circles I used to go through in PA worked the same as roundabouts, just in reverse. I'm assuming everybody moves the same way around the circle though (here it's clockwise, in the US counterclockwise)? Still don't like them. With the really big ones here, which can have more than four exits, it can be very confusing on just which lane you're supposed to be in. Here's the scariest one I know of: http://tinyurl.com/d5dlb and a short video: http://www.fotosearch.com/BYV203/intp006/ Arc de Trioumphe, Paris. This is on a quiet morning. Imagine what this is like during rush hour! Our bus driver told us that most insurance companies won't ensure a car that gets in a wreck in this circle. Also, that buses have the right of way - hit a bus, and it's always *your* fault. There's an underpass for pedestrians. Can you imagine having to walk through that to get to the Arc? jmc >Suddenly, without warning, Tomes exclaimed (17-Feb-06 10:12 PM): >>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >jmc France has (used to have?) one very simple rule ... unless signed or a STOP sign, all traffic coming from the right has the right of way. IF you get into an accident and your car is struck from the center of the hood around to the post behind the front right passenger ... YOU are at FAULT. Used the ADT nearly daily for three years <G>! Suddenly, without warning, J. A. Mc. exclaimed (18-Feb-06 3:07 PM): >> Suddenly, without warning, Tomes exclaimed (17-Feb-06 10:12 PM): >>>> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Used the ADT nearly daily for three years <G>! Wow, and you lived to tell about it? I'm impressed. It scared the willies outta me, and I wasn't even driving! jmc >Suddenly, without warning, J. A. Mc. exclaimed (18-Feb-06 3:07 PM): >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >Wow, and you lived to tell about it? I'm impressed. It scared the >willies outta me, and I wasn't even driving! When you're young, you're 'invincible'! <G> > Arc de Trioumphe, Paris. This is on a quiet morning. Imagine what this > is like during rush hour! Our bus driver told us that most insurance [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > jmc I remember doing the Arc circle. My main reaction in the letter I wrote home was - maniacs! All that traffic, all those lanes, if you call them lanes. I had to go around a couple of times just to get out, and that is someone who learned driving in NJ, lol. Actually, I thought it was fun <grin>. Tomes No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in Iraq, in over three years of war. The number killed in 2005 exceeded 43,000 The problem we have in this country is we allow drivers that do not know how top drive to teach others to drive, sad. mike hunt >>>R Philip Dowds wrote: >>>> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by >>>> either >>>> terrorists or global warming, but rather by other drivers. > Actually, we have in NJ a special phone number exactly for that. *77 > (star 77) is the 'Aggressive Driver Hotline' specifically for reporting > aggressive drivers. > Tomes > No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle > accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in Iraq, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > mike hunt And then we put cell phones in their hands. :( dennis in nca > > No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle > > accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in Iraq, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > dennis > in nca if you ask me they should totally outlaw the use of a cell phone by a motor vehicle operator while the vehicle is in motion...the "hands free" stuff is a joke. Signature-Chris 05 CTD 99 Durango > if you ask me they should totally outlaw the use of a cell phone by a > motor > vehicle operator while the vehicle is in motion...the "hands free" stuff > is > a joke. It (the hands free thing) was shown to be a joke within a month of the law being passed in NY. NPR interviewed some researcher from Columbia University who did a very simple study. He put people in front of some sort of video simulator which measured reaction time or something, and found that even wearing a headset with microphone, a normal conversation was enough of a distraction to cause problems. It was significantly worse for women. Suddenly, without warning, Doug Kanter exclaimed (18-Feb-06 4:14 PM): >> if you ask me they should totally outlaw the use of a cell phone by a >> motor [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > wearing a headset with microphone, a normal conversation was enough of a > distraction to cause problems. It was significantly worse for women. Well, then, we probably shouldn't even be talking to our passengers then, huh? jmc > Suddenly, without warning, Doug Kanter exclaimed (18-Feb-06 4:14 PM): >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > jmc If you get into a weird situation, the passengers usually shut up, unless they're kids, in which case, you ignore them. >If you get into a weird situation, the passengers usually shut up, unless >they're kids, in which case, you ignore them. Just like a GOOD driver can divide attention between a conversation (live or phone) and the operation of the vehicle. The good driver will also make the proper decision on when it's safe to talk. There's a big difference between talking while zipping along the center or right lane of a wide open interstate on a 70F, severe clear day, and negotiating a mall parking lot on the last Saturday before Christmas. <G> My wife can't walk & talk, so she's a hazard with or without hands-free. Some folks, like pilots, are actually trained to prioritize tasks and divide attention. Flying is first, as driving should be, communication is towards the bottom of the list. My state outlawed hand held phones. A month after the law went into effect, we're back to everybody on the phone, including the cops. >>If you get into a weird situation, the passengers usually shut up, unless >>they're kids, in which case, you ignore them. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > My state outlawed hand held phones. A month after the law went into > effect, we're back to everybody on the phone, including the cops. And some young punks do believe they own the road. Stuck in a 3 mile long trafficjam at the 163d St Toll Plaza thanks to our Governor. The North Side toll stations are all set up for Open Road Tolling, but the South Side ones are half-a$$ed set up. 2 of 4 lanes at 82d St and 2 lanes going through only at 163d. So now, all the automatic lanes are closed except for the one posted 5 mph drive through lane. So no one is using the drive through lane, but a bunch of people have their rear stuck out in it. So I have an I-pass box and I start manovering out into the sort-of open lane. But not going very fast because I don't have a completely open lane, I have barrels on one side and bumpers sticking into the lane on the other, so I'm going about 20, have to slow down for the I-pass lane anyway. Well for the last 5 minutes I've been hearing some a$$hole honking his horn most of the time. So who pulls up right behind me as I'm going through the I-pass lane and honking his horn and flashing his lights? Mister I must have a problem cause I keep honking thinking maybe if I honk loud enough and flash my lights enough, Mr Corolla will go faster (already doing 20 in a 5 MPH posted zone) I came within an ace of throwing it into Park right there in front of him, cause I was slowing down anyway going through the lane (I usually make it to about 7-8. I figure they're not going to ticket me for that.) He just keeps honking and flashing his lights. Then he yelled out the window. I did show him the Hawaiian Good Luck sign and he yelled back something I won't repeat here. I wished him a very warm reception on his eternal destination! Well I got though the gate and he nearly ran over me getting past me to go up the 80 off ramp to run smack into a smaller traffic jam at the top of the ramp. Should have got his license number. No there wasn't a spot for me to pull over to let him by before the gate, I had two places in that lane that were barely wide enough for me to squeeze the Corolla past between barrel and bumper. Charles of Schaumburg >It (the hands free thing) was shown to be a joke within a month of the law >being passed in NY. NPR interviewed some researcher from Columbia University >who did a very simple study. He put people in front of some sort of video >simulator which measured reaction time or something, and found that even >wearing a headset with microphone, a normal conversation was enough of a >distraction to cause problems. It was significantly worse for women. Is talking on a cell phone while operating a vehicle any more of a distraction than carrying on a conversation with the passenger sitting next to you in the same car? > >It (the hands free thing) was shown to be a joke within a month of the law > >being passed in NY. NPR interviewed some researcher from Columbia University [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > distraction than carrying on a conversation with the passenger sitting > next to you in the same car? Yep, usually more, tying up your hand as well as your neurons. Besides, passengers may alert you to oncoming danger--if they aren't prone to wandering themselves. ;) Cell Phones and Driving JANUARY 2006 In the United States over 200 million people used cell phones as of December 2005, compared with approximately 4.3 million in 1990, according to the Cellular Telecommunications & Internet Association. Increased reliance on cell phones has led to a rise in the number of people who use the devices while driving. There are two dangers associated with driving and cell phone use. First, drivers must take their eyes off the road while dialing. Second, people can become so absorbed in their conversations that their ability to concentrate on the act of driving is severely impaired, jeopardizing the safety of vehicle occupants and pedestrians. Since the first law was passed in New York in 2001 banning hand-held cell phone use while driving, there has been debate as to the exact nature and degree of hazard. At first safety experts focused on the problem as part of the larger one of driver distractions in general. These can include anything that reduces driver concentration on road hazards from drinking coffee to talking with another passenger. Now there is increasing evidence that the dangers associated with cell-phone use outweigh those of other distractions. Safety experts also acknowledge that the hazard posed by cell phone conversations is not eliminated, and may even be increased, by the use of hands-free sets. more... http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/cellphones/ >>It (the hands free thing) was shown to be a joke within a month of the law >>being passed in NY. NPR interviewed some researcher from Columbia [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > distraction than carrying on a conversation with the passenger sitting > next to you in the same car? Yes. Think about it. >>It (the hands free thing) was shown to be a joke within a month of the law >>being passed in NY. NPR interviewed some researcher from Columbia [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > distraction than carrying on a conversation with the passenger sitting > next to you in the same car? Yes, very much so. Tomes >> if you ask me they should totally outlaw the use of a cell phone by a >> motor [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > was enough of a distraction to cause problems. It was significantly worse > for women. Myth Busters had a segment on this, comparing the cell phone usage (where they made the driver have a real thinking conversation) to actual drunk driving. It was a good test (and I am one who always does not agree with their methods). They were equally as bad: hands-free vs. drunk at the limit. Tomes >>> if you ask me they should totally outlaw the use of a cell phone by a >>> motor [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > limit. > Tomes Here's something that's related, found in the latest Scientific American. Speech is processed in the left hemisphere of the brain, which also handles images from the right eye. Native English speakers were easily able to distinguish different blue & green squares when they were placed in their right field of vision. But, when the subjects had to simultaneously rehearse (verbally) an 8-digit number, it markedly lowered their ability to differentiate the colored squares. The sudden need for speech borrows computing time from the part of the brain that was studying the colors. > > No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle > > accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in Iraq, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And then we put cell phones in their hands. :( Oh, that's meant to keep them awake. Imagine if the were bored while watching TV in their vehicle... > No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle > accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in Iraq, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > mike hunt That's because driving is a constitutional right envisioned by the founding fathers when they said: "All men are created equally fit to drive, even the Mentally Confused and Prone To Wandering..." What make you think driving is a right, let alone a Constructional right? LOL mike hunt >> No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle >> accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > founding fathers when they said: "All men are created equally fit to > drive, even the Mentally Confused and Prone To Wandering..." > What make you think driving is a right, let alone a Constructional right? > LOL Many people who shouldn't be driving are doing it, so I guess it's understood it's a right. Whether I have the right, though, of SAFE travel is doubtful... :( Case # 1 - "Even the legislature has no power to deny to a citizen the right to travel upon the highway and transport his property in the ordinary course of his business or pleasure, though this right may be regulated in accordance with the public interest and convenience. - Chicago Motor Coach v Chicago 169 NE 22 ("Regulated" here means traffic safety enforcement, stop lights, signs, etc. NOT a privilege that requires permission i.e.- licensing, mandatory insurance, vehicle registration, etc.) Case # 2 - "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."- Thompson v Smith 154 SE 579. It could not be stated more conclusively that Citizens of the states have a right to travel, without approval or restriction, (license,) and that this right is protected under the U.S. Constitution. Here are other court decisions that expound the same facts: Case # 3 - "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the 5th Amendment." - Kent v Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 125. Case # 4 - "Undoubtedly the right of locomotion, the right to remove from one place to another according to inclination, is an attribute of personal Liberty, and the right, ordinarily, of free transit from or through the territory of any State is a right secured by the l4th Amendment and by other provisions of the Constitution." - Schactman v Dulles, 96 App D.C. 287, 293. http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/DrivingRight.html That the prone to wandering is still thriving out there though is part of multi-million dollar industry that puts anyone behind the wheel, and everyone at risk. Well, so is the ticket industry... Traffic Tickets Are Big Business Traffic tickets are a multi-billion industry. They have virtually nothing to do with highway safety, but they have everything to do with money! -Traffic tickets heavily fund most court systems. -Traffic tickets justify the existence of entire police agencies like state highway patrols. -Traffic tickets are often used to justify police department's budget requests. -Traffic tickets are used as an excuse to raise the insurance rates for otherwise safe drivers. -Traffic tickets virtually fund numerous local governments. When you begin to grasp the full magnitude of the public and private interests that depend on ripping off motorists through traffic tickets, you begin to understand why this unethical system continues to expand every year. No one knows how many traffic tickets are actually issued. Many local units of government deliberately hide this information so they don't have to split their traffic ticket revenue with the state. Not including parking tickets (another scam), we can estimate that somewhere between 25 and 50 million traffic tickets are issued each year. Assuming an average ticket cost of $150.00, the total up front profit from tickets ranges from 3.75 to 7.5 billion dollars. If just half of these tickets result in insurance surcharges (typically at least $300 over a period of three years), you can add another 3.75 to 7.5 billion dollars in profit for insurance companies. This is why insurance companies "care" so much traffic "safety" programs and are willing to donate millions of dollars worth of radar and laser guns to the police. (Click here to read more about "free" laser gun programs.) For them, it's simple: more tickets equal more money! http://www.motorists.com/issues/tickets/traffic_ticket_system.html Much ado about nothing it seems. That is one scam one can easily avoid, obey the traffic laws. I will be 80 next month and have been driving in since I was 15. I have never had as much as a parking ticket let alone been convicted of a moving violation. I wish we could avoid graduated income tax laws as easily. LOL mike hunt > That the prone to wandering is still thriving out there though is part > of multi-million dollar industry that puts anyone behind the wheel, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > nothing to do with highway safety, but they have everything to do with > money! > Much ado about nothing it seems. That is one scam one can easily avoid, > obey the traffic laws. I will be 80 next month and have been driving in > since I was 15. I have never had as much as a parking ticket let alone been > convicted of a moving violation. I wish we could avoid graduated income tax > laws as easily. LOL Aunt Jemima won't get any speeding tickets either if only because she's always slow and inattentive. Only the latter bothers me though. >> Much ado about nothing it seems. That is one scam one can easily avoid, >> obey the traffic laws. I will be 80 next month and have been driving in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Aunt Jemima won't get any speeding tickets either if only because she's > always slow and inattentive. Only the latter bothers me though. Cops here (Rochester NY) have been hammering overly slow drivers, since it's often a sign of inebriation or an unnoticed death in the family (elderly drivers who should've had their cars removed long ago). It's a very popular law enforcement campaign, especially when it nails the morons who get onto a 65mph highway doing 38, and then take a minute to get all the way to 43. Methinks you are confusing ones Constitutional right to 'travel' unrestricted within the various states, with ones privilege of driving the conveyance in which one chooses to travel. Get caught driving while unlicensed, drunk or uninsured and see how quickly you will discover the difference between the two LOL mike hunt >> What make you think driving is a right, let alone a Constructional right? >> LOL [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/DrivingRight.html > Methinks you are confusing ones Constitutional right to 'travel' > unrestricted within the various states, with ones privilege of driving the > conveyance in which one chooses to travel. Get caught driving while > unlicensed, drunk or uninsured and see how quickly you will discover the > difference between the two LOL You hit my thought exactly - nowhere do any his citations extend the right to travel to include the right to operate a motor vehicle or other device. In point of fact, those citations are satisfied by being a passenger in any publically available mode of transport - or walking. SignatureWill Honea >> No question about that. More American die in three days in motor vehicle >> accidents in the US than have been killed, fighting for our county in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > founding fathers when they said: "All men are created equally fit to > drive, even the Mentally Confused and Prone To Wandering..." No. We have the right to travel anywhere we want, without some spook asking to see "your papers, please". There is no legal right to own a vehicle. "Doug Kanter" opined: > No. We have the right to travel anywhere we want, without some spook asking > to see "your papers, please". There is no legal right to own a vehicle. Yes, we have the right to travel and driving is a privilege... earned by passing a test. If a person has proven him/herself to be unsafe, the privilege can be temporarily suspended or permanently revoked. I believe Don was speaking tongue-in-cheek when he said the founding fathers said "All men are created equally fit to drive, even the Mentally Confused and Prone To Wandering." Bryan "It should be possible to explain physics to a barmaid." -A. Einstein Should be numbers for "bimbo applying makeup in rearview mirror and jabbering on cell phone while driving" and "dumbshit reading newspaper while driving". > >>R Philip Dowds wrote: > >>> PS: Statistics tell me that I am most likely to be harmed, not by either [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > drivers. > Tomes > Actually, we have in NJ a special phone number exactly for that. *77 > (star 77) is the 'Aggressive Driver Hotline' specifically for reporting > aggressive drivers. > Tomes Just in case anyone is going to actually use the number in NJ, it is #77 (pound, not star). I saw the sign again today.... If you use it, post how it went for the curious (like me). Tomes Gene Cash wrote: > > -Traffic tickets heavily fund most court systems. > > No, tourist taxes do. At least here in Florida. I can't speak for other > states. You mean only unsuspecting tourists get tickets? Well, anyone can fall for those speed traps where they hand out dozens of tickets, even if they are always set up at the same place while notoriously absent from our chaotic freeways/expressways. 'The act of exceeding an unreasonably low limit is hardly an "unusual risk." That means speeding ticket surcharges are pure profit for the insurance industry. In total, we're talking about 7.5 to 15 billion dollars annually from tickets for government agencies and insurance companies. That's more money than several states take in from all taxes! Worse still, that total doesn't even include the money that "traffic schools," attorneys, radar-detector manufacturers, and scanner producers make.' (same source above) > > -Traffic tickets justify the existence of entire police agencies like > > state highway patrols. > > Nope. People driving like fuckheads on the interstate justify the > existance of the highway patrol. I NEVER see them on the highways, at least here in Florida where you and I live. So I'd suggest the word "highway" in Highway Patrol is dropped in favor of Speed Patrol... > > -Traffic tickets are often used to justify police department's budget > > requests. > > Yup, they're a semi-good metric that the cops aren't just eating > doughnuts. After the speed traps they can have plenty of leisure eating doughnuts. > > -Traffic tickets are used as an excuse to raise the insurance rates for > > otherwise safe drivers. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > from considering tickets, and they don't enforce the "only 5 times in > your life" law, which I think is a little strange. That's part of the big business, certainly not free or economical. Most people though opt for the lawyer, where you pay too, but at least you don't have to bother. YOU PAY THE LAWYER AND YOU GET AWAY WITH A CLEAN RECORD. Ah, the trick is in the law, people say. > > -Traffic tickets virtually fund numerous local governments. > > Yup. Go speeding down Bithlo's main road because you can't slow down, > and you'll get a little behavior-modification punishment, also known as > a ticket. Enough morons do this that they keep the local government > running for free. Speeding tickets are one thing, and genuine tickets are the other. Regrettably, it's mostly speeding tickets that feed the HUNGRY LION, while the prone to wandering keep jabbing away on the phone. > Most people drive like twats. As far as I'm concerned, they don't give > out ENOUGH tickets. Do you work for the government by any chance? > I've had to call the police so they'd ticket the a.sholes that insist on > doing u-turns where it's posted on the near median, the far median, and > next to the traffic light "NO U-TURNS" 3 goddamn large signs and they > still do u-turns. OK, that's a legitimate ticket. > I've had to call the cops where people decide they can just drive right > through the local 4-way stop or the traffic light. This one too. > I've also had to call the cops where some jerk, usually a rice-boy, > decides he can park taking up two spaces, usually inches from my bike. And so is this... But have you called the Highway Patrol over people passing on the right and dangerously weaving around other vehicles? That would get you a ticket in the civilized world, I mean Europe. ;) Larry wrote: > In article <1140378095.076148.60920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > And your post has nothing to do with the right/privilege distinction. I answered before, but going 10 MPH over the limit is dangerous, but reckless driving while on the phone, even if slower that posted speed is not? Funny, no? It sounds like a speed trap for unsuspecting prey... SPEED TRAP A specific location in which police wait in concealment, hoping to catch unwary motorists speeding. For example, a police car might wait behind a bridge or overpass, out of sight of approaching motorists and then pull out once they pass. Alternatively, an officer hiding in a bush or behind a fence might radar passing motorists and radio their license numbers to a partner in a car further down the road. Often, this type of operation uses remote speed detection devices such as a radar gun to track cars' speeds. > SPEED TRAP > A specific location in which police wait in concealment, hoping to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > this type of operation uses remote speed detection devices such as a > radar gun to track cars' speeds. I always thought a speed trap was a stretch of road where, for various reasons, most drivers' sense of speed was distorted. Vague, but able to be determined by an inordinate number of speeders being observed. > > SPEED TRAP > > A specific location in which police wait in concealment, hoping to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > reasons, most drivers' sense of speed was distorted. Vague, but able to be > determined by an inordinate number of speeders being observed. See several definitions at link below... Well, usually it takes some participation in politics to know how to make big business in a perfectly legal way, but I'll clue you in in the hope that you won't run for my local government. ;) Examples In the recently incorporated town of Coopertown, Tennessee, the mayor decided [citation needed] to lower the speed limit drastically in order to fill the town's coffers. The city limits includes a small stretch of Interstate I-24 on both the east-bound and west-bound lanes of Exit 24, just north of Nashville, Tennessee. City police are now sitting in speed traps near the overpass of the exit and also in the bottom area near the Cheatham County line. Fines are outrageous but are fulfilling the mayor's purpose. He says it makes his town safer but no one travelling I-24 even passes close to the two schools and one church that makes up the town. Local residents are avoiding the traps but those who are just passing through have no warning. The city's police budget has nearly tripled, from $155,880 during the last fiscal year to $451,550 this year. Coopertown's budget calls for $400,000 in traffic court revenue, 29% of the city's budget and a dollar amount higher than in many Midstate cities with more people. In the village of New Rome, Ohio, a speed trap that has received national media attention, a police force of 14 presided over a community of only 60 and collected around $400,000 in tickets annually. This comprised nearly all of the village's budget, and nearly all went back into funding the police. In the capital city of Saint Paul, Minnesota, a stretch of Interstate 35E slows abruptly from 60 to 45 miles per hour due to the freeway passing through a residential zone; a disproportionate number of tickets are given to less-than-aware drivers passing through this area even though the speed limit is posted on numerous signs entering the zone.[citation needed] A force of less than a dozen full-time and reserve officers in Coburg, Oregon, a city of fewer than 1,000 people, raised over $750,000 in traffic fines in a year on a section of Interstate 5 outside the city limits. When the Oregon Legislative Assembly closed a legal loophole the city had been exploiting, Coburg's police force spent the last six months before the law took effect writing an average of 22 tickets/day. This resulted in bail amounts totalling more than $1 million. Waldo, Florida and Lawtey, Florida are the only known towns (as of 2005) to be designated by AAA Auto Club as speed traps, with AAA going so far as to post billboards along U.S. Highway 301 warning drivers to watch their speed limits. Both traps feature multiple variations in speed limit. Anecdotal evidence produced from analyzing some large Texas police departments and the Texas DPS suggests that at least half of all moving violation tickets written by any traffic enforcement agency are for speeding violations. This means that speed limits are enforced substantially more than any other moving violation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_trap It is legal in the US to pass on the right, within a designated lane of travel. They do it in England all the time, more than anywhere else in Europe, as well ;) mike hunt my bike. > And so is this... But have you called the Highway Patrol over people > passing on the right and dangerously weaving around other vehicles? > That would get you a ticket in the civilized world, I mean Europe. ;) Yes, but they drive on the left so the right lane is the passing lane. You won't see many people in the UK passing on the left especially on the freeways. Come to Canada if you want to see some truly bad driving - it is legal to pass in any lane and even the pavement markings are not law in Ontario. Bill > It is legal in the US to pass on the right, within a designated lane of > travel. They do it in England all the time, more than anywhere else in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> passing on the right and dangerously weaving around other vehicles? >> That would get you a ticket in the civilized world, I mean Europe. ;) > Yes, but they drive on the left so the right lane is the passing lane. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Come to Canada if you want to see some truly bad driving - it is legal to > pass in any lane and even the pavement markings are not law in Ontario. I think America can draw some comfort from Canada, and rather keep the situation in England out of the public eye. Of course, they can always use some Newspeak and say they too pass on the right there. ;) Gene Cash wrote: > > I NEVER see them on the highways, at least here in Florida where you > > and I live. So I'd suggest the word "highway" in Highway Patrol is > > dropped in favor of Speed Patrol... > > I guess that's why you get tickets... you never open your eyes and see > the cops. There's always FHP on I-4 and the Turnpike. OK, not on I-95 south of Ft. Launderdale (the busiest expresway around here) where you see everything including high speed races weaving around other vehicles. I feel like a sitting duck when driving there, not only for the speeds but because of the dangerous weaving. Not one HP anywhere! > > That's part of the big business, certainly not free or economical. Most > > people though opt for the lawyer, where you pay too, but at least you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well I have cheap legal aid through work, I pay $38/year for it. I > haven't used it yet. OK, I haven't got a traffic ticket in a good while (knowing where the speed traps lie) but I'm collecting parking tickets, feeding the hungry lion in the process. The penultimate one was fair, the last one was pure predation... > I can go on, but I'm tired of typing. So yeah, I think they could hand > out a few more tickets. A metric assload more. I'll be buying 'em coffee > and doughnuts. Well, the problem is that you may be feeding doughnuts to the lion. I mean, the hungry lion, not the officers who still want to see safer roads, though that won't happen until political decisions are made to tame our Darwinian Roads. In the meantime, BUSINESS AS USUAL, for example... Police LOVE Violent drivers, They HATE safe drivers! I live in the area of Lewisville, Texas...which is part of the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex. The police in Lewisville and the surrounding areas could NOT care LESS about vicious, violent, and extremely dangerous drivers! The Lewisville police station is on Main Street in Lewisville, which is the busiest and most dangerous road in Lewisville! You can stand on any street corner around that area on Main Street (indeed, ANY where on Main Street), and watch these violent morons speed thru stop signs, red lights, and slower traffic! They "ride" on the rear bumpers of other cars, and they NEVER EVER use blinkers or turn their headlights on at night, in bad weather, or when it is overcast!!!!! Do the police stop these dangerous people? NO! Do the police take these dangerous idiots licenses away? NO! Do the police even bother to follow the same drivng laws they are supposed to uphold? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What exactly DO the Lewisville police do you ask? They HIDE behind walls, buildings, trees, bushes, parked vehicles, and any other large objects near street corners, so they can catch YOU going 1/2 a frikin mile over the speed limit and give you a $170.00 ticket for it! I have always been told, that 'speed traps' are illegal. Well, apparently in this area, it is police policy to be a COWARD and HIDE behind objects to give tickets to people who are just trying to get down the street without one of these EXTREMELY violent, vicious, and destructive drivers killing you! *I* get stopped for going 1/2 a friking mile over the speed limit, and yet the idiots BLOWING past me like I am parked at the side of the road, dont even get a warning! *I* get stopped and given 'warnings' for forgetting to use a blinker once, or for forgetting to turn my "brights" off in city limits, or even (get this) "slowing down at an intersection"....when *I* had the green light!!!! But yet, these violent jackasses can speed 50 mph over the posted speed limit, run thru red lights, run thru stop signs, ram peoples cars, run pedestrians over, drive at night without headlights, and in bad weather without headlights, and the police dont even "blink" in their direction!!!! Someone tell me please, WHY even wast money with a so-called 'police department', when they dont DO anything! Even the police here drive just as bad, if not WORSE, than these idiots. So why am I given a ticket for something everyone else can do and NOT get a ticket? WE should be in charge of these peoples wages! They get their raises if WE vote they should! They get their benefits if WE vote they should! THAT would get them off their donut filled a.ses and get these idiots off the roads! (And it doesnt help that anyone walking thru the doors of the drivers license offices here in Texes can get a license! And I DO mean ANYONE!) Check this place, it's real cool... http://roadragers.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=62&s=9a566b417af39cdf53a66b3 8b13e5ddf This is a follow up to the above quote. Notice the argument where the police is LAZY and wants a EASY CATCH that's also LOW RISK and HIGH YIELD and how it uses CAMOUFLAGE, how much it sounds like the King of the Jungle! The lion has been doing all of the above for eons with the resulting terror among the little animals of the jungle. Well, whatever the lion doesn't eat, the rapacious Allstate vultures take care of it! ;) QUOTE (fatcat75077 @ Nov 14 2004, 06:42 PM) I live in the area of Lewisville, Texas...which is part of the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex. The police in Lewisville and the surrounding areas could NOT care LESS about vicious, violent, and extremely dangerous drivers! The Lewisville police station is on Main Street in Lewisville, which is the busiest and most dangerous road in Lewisville! Thats right fatcat, the police is lazy. They prefer easy catch. I drive 121 to grapevine mills every day, and tell you, the driving is far from beeing safe - but the police is not there to give tickets for reckless driving. The police prefer to watch people roll stopsigns, or hide behind bushes, or driving lights off at dark to catch people travelling over the posted speed limit, because thats low risk, high yield bussiness. It makes me sick to the stomach, but there in nothing I can do about it. I can somehow deal with the ticket. Unfortunately the insurance company also wants to get their cut out of the cake, by linking insurance premiums to tickets, rather than linking accident free time to premiums - I wish the insurance company policy makers to burn in hell. Especially revolting is the Allstate advertisement with these (corrupted cop) hands can help. Sure they help - getting more money to the insurance company through higher premiums - fuk thoze aholes. You guys are on the wrong site! Bitch on your own time. Gene Cash wrote: > "donquijote1954" <nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> writes: > > > Traffic Tickets Are Big Business > > Yup, betting on people being stupid, selfish, and saying "nobody else on > the road matters" will make you a LOT of money. Being stupid doesn't get you a ticket. Ask those drivers who talk all the time on the phone. Smart drivers who know when to go fast are the ones punished. Well, if you are tired of being eaten by THE PREDATOR, you may turn to a site like this... 'For six years, Patrick Mulroy calmed thousands of resentful motorists through a combination "therapy" of wit, humor and useful information provided in his comedy traffic school classes. His students were angry about many things: unfair tickets, overzealous cops, predatory fines, rude and dismissive court employees, and their own sense of helplessness... This site is for people fed up with paying exorbitant fines for laws they did not break. This site is for people who can't afford to pay a $346 ticket for going through a yellow light. This site is for people full of undirected anger that need the information to fight back and not submit to injustice. This site is for defense contractors and their robot cameras to know that they can't continue to manipulate the truth for their own profit. This site is for traffic court judges that would prefer to be judges instead of rubber-stamps for an out-of-control prosecution state. But mostly, kind reader, this site is for you.' http://www.ticketassassin.com/about.html Actually the site if meant for those that violate the traffic laws, not those that do not violate the traffic laws LOL > This site is for people fed up with paying exorbitant fines for laws > they did not break. This site is for people who can't afford to pay a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.ticketassassin.com/about.html > Actually the site if meant for those that violate the traffic laws, not > those that do not violate the traffic laws LOL "This site is for everyone Patrick ever had in his class: the good, the bad, and the ugly (you know who you are). " Well, it says right there. But the bad and ugly are also on the side of the law, ie, the Speed Patrol, the courts, the lawyers and other leeches. jim rozen wrote: > In article <x-573FEA.17510019022006@news.east.earthlink.net>, Larry says... > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > having a bad day will write you up for some imagined offense. > It's all about being 'in charge.' They're 'in charge.' Yep, they are the true kings of the roads. Forget about those lions in Africa which only hunt for food and must do a lot of chasing. Well, these got the prey cornered and ready to eat. |
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