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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / March 2006Cummins 5.9L diesel with biodiesel
I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L diesel. I want to use biodiesel in my truck to reduce emissions. >I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether > biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L > diesel. I want to use biodiesel in my truck to reduce emissions. Cummins approves up to B05 for the older engines. What is Cummins position on biodiesel fuel? Biodiesel blends up to B5 are approved for use in all Cummins engines for both on-highway and off-highway engines. B5 is a blend of 5 percent pure biodiesel and 95 percent standard petroleum diesel. Cummins believes that blends greater than B5 are possible and appropriate. The industry standard known as ASTM D6751 defines the specifications for B100. However, this standard currently lacks a specification for stability. Without a specification for stability, the quality of fuel in blends greater than B5 could degrade to a point which could be damaging to engines. For the 2007 model year they okay up to B20 http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/23/208274.html With the failure rate of the VP44 injection pump, there won't be any biodiesel in my truck. Robert >> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Robert I thought biodiesel had higher lubricity than petro diesel. Wouldn't that extend the life of the fuel pumps?  SignatureKen >>> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >>> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I thought biodiesel had higher lubricity than petro diesel. Wouldn't that > extend the life of the fuel pumps? I thought the same as Ken, regards the bio. Weren't most of the failures of the injection pump due to lack of cooling because of the failure of the lift pump? Roy >>>> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >>>> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Roy This is a good link on the subject: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html Yes, Roy, I think you are right. in the link http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#1tank it says, > The "secret" is specially made injector nozzles, increased injection pressure and stronger glow-plugs, in addition to fuel pre-heating. and goes on to suggest three well tested systems from Germany (where they've been doing this for years) This site gives good brew-your-own (biodiesel) and grow-your-own (VGO) info. I had figured that if I were to try, I would go with making my own ethanol and SVO, and using an older diesel engine -- say, try it in a homemade generator first rach > I thought the same as Ken, regards the bio. Weren't most of the failures > of the injection pump due to lack of cooling because of the failure of the > lift pump? Yup, and I think Cummins says as much on their site in regard to bio diesel. SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >>>> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >>>> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Roy >>> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >>> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I thought biodiesel had higher lubricity than petro diesel. Wouldn't that > extend the life of the fuel pumps? Yes, but biodiesel seems to be more acidic and can weaken some rubber hoses in older diesels from what I hear. >>> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >>> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I thought biodiesel had higher lubricity than petro diesel. Wouldn't that > extend the life of the fuel pumps? That's correct, but that's not why I'm not interested in bio-diesel. In addition to a lack of standards for bio-diesel, my truck sits for long periods of time and bio doesn't "age" well. I fueled up last Friday, 74 gallons, $175.00, I can't recall the previous fillup, sometime last year (probably fall) I suppose. Some interesting links to follow. http://lifesciencesweek.missouri.edu/uploads/finalposter/schumacherl@1.pdf http://www.jwburress.com/images/servicebulletins/01-037%20BIO%20D%20FUEL.pdf I'll leave the "real world" testing to the voluntary guinea pigs. Robert > I'll leave the "real world" testing to the voluntary guinea pigs. > > Robert as I have left those who which to be guinea pigs for laser eye surgery, which it turns out needs to be re-done from time to time rach >> I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >> biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Robert I second that -- even with a warranty on a 2007, I would rather some other guinea-pigs try it first (no offense intended) on a fabulous engine like that rach >I would like to know if anyone has had experience or knows whether >biodiesel will compromise any seals or gaskets in a 2001 cummins 5.9L >diesel. I want to use biodiesel in my truck to reduce emissions. I forget whether it was Michigan or Minnesota that requires something like 20% biodiesel sales statewide and had to back down because of major problems reported by the trucking companies with clogged fuel filters. ISTR it was in the MSN news feeds a couple of days ago they had big problems with biodiesel a trucking company used biodiesel they would fill up down south and go up north to deliver there goods and gell up as soon as the trucks hit cold weather they would break down the fuel would cloud up then gell up there was a article about this trucking company and what happened if i remember right i think they had like 30to40 trucks break down the trucking company switched back to the regular fuel from what i have heard in the summer time it is ok to use but not in the winter time >they had big problems with biodiesel a trucking company used biodiesel they >would fill up down south and go up north to deliver there goods and gell up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >what i have heard in the summer time it is ok to use but not in the winter >time Fueling up down south and then going north and complaining about gelling problems with biodiesel isn't a valid argument against biodiesel. You could fill up down south with unblended 100% diesel fuel and go up north and still have the same problem. Been there, done that a time or two before biodiesel was ever heard of. Greg >> they had big problems with biodiesel a trucking company used biodiesel they >> would fill up down south and go up north to deliver there goods and gell up [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Greg I was curious -- using the two tank method and adapted fuel injectors etc., do you think a workable solution could be to engineer a method of mix dependent on sensors where the second tank injects the appropriate amount of methanol or ethanol rach Also, I read about having one tank on SVO and the other on biodiesel but was wondering whether some of the older diesels could handle SVO with ethanol in the second tank. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html rach >>> they had big problems with biodiesel a trucking company used biodiesel they >>> would fill up down south and go up north to deliver there goods and gell up [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >rach I'm not sure where you are getting the idea for ethanol mixed with diesel fuel. I was under the impression that ethanol was the stuff that is so big for mixing with gasoline right now? Usually, with diesel fuel, the stations up north will either mix appropriate amounts of #1 and #2 diesel to keep it from gelling, but I've never heard of using ethanol. Greg >O > >I'm not sure where you are getting the idea for ethanol mixed with >diesel fuel. I was under the impression that ethanol was the stuff >that is so big for mixing with gasoline right now? Diesel engines can run on ethanol/ mixtures: http://www.o2diesel.com/index.php Have read that it's been done in Brazil on Mercedes busses 26 yrs ago, crankcase oil was used for lubrication of the hi pressure fuel pump. http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_July_August/Brazil_s_Alcohol_Diesel The technology is there, it's only a matter of will and desire. ED >>O >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >ED Thanks, Ed. Couple of things though: The Brazilians are doing this for two reasons: Cleaner air and self-sufficiency. I'm not saying that those are "bad" things, but I'd like to see a cost comparison. They have the same problem with the diesel burning ethanol that we have here with the gas engines burning ethanol - efficiency suffers. The second article says they had to "provide 50% more alcohol" to the engine. They also had to add a cetane enhancer to get the ethanol to self ignite under pressure, which adds yet another step into the manufacturing process. Given those two factors, and that they say the same engines will run on diesel, diesel and gas, diesel and vegetable oil, diesel and ethanol (I wonder when somebody will come up with 50 octane turnip juice?), I'd almost put these engines in a multi-fuels class, rather than a straight diesel engine. Greg >http://www.o2diesel.com/index.php > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >ED Looking at the following article, I may have to retract any objections I raised about cost: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060311/AUTO01/603110373/1148 /rss25 >In Sao Tome, the cooperative that owns the ethanol distillery is betting on its best profits since it bought the operation in 1993. Cocamar's production cost is $1.10 per gallon, and wholesalers are buying the fuel for $2.68 -- up from $1.44 last year. Greg >>http://www.o2diesel.com/index.php >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Greg Greg, It was an eye opener to me that a diesel could run on ethanol, the energy situation in the US is complex, but at the end of the day it's the incumbent technology that has the trump card ie firm control of the political system. And changes of any magnitude in energy would require the influence of congress.. Ethanol/biodiesel are considered a disruptive innovation and currently treated as such. But given the instability in the energy markets it seems logical that ethanol, methanol, biodiesel would be integrated into the picture. The current pump price of $2.55 + for diesel combined with the onboard computer ability to detect and use different fuels should make this a reality. A phased fuel tax to keep the price high, around $5 ish and use the procedes to develop alt energy sources could have profound impacts, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. ED |
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