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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / March 2006

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gvwr - how much due to tires?

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Nathan W. Collier - 08 Mar 2006 02:22 GMT
certain posters on different RV boards suggest that a dodge dually is
capable of far more than the posted gvwr, suggesting that its set based on
the load rating of your tires.  anyting to this?  will higher rated tires
increase your gvwr?
thanks,

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miles - 08 Mar 2006 02:26 GMT
> certain posters on different RV boards suggest that a dodge dually is
> capable of far more than the posted gvwr, suggesting that its set based on
> the load rating of your tires.  anyting to this?  will higher rated tires
> increase your gvwr?

I've often wondered what the formula is that manufactures use to compute
GVWR.  Or is it that each manufacture has their own formula with a fudge
factor depending on market?
td - 08 Mar 2006 04:08 GMT
GVWR is easy; GVWR shall be specified by the manufacturer as not less
than the sum of: curb weight, dealer installed options weight, occupant
mass, luggage.

Another way to look at it each manufacturer determines the maximum
acceptable weight limits for each vehicle by considering the combined
weight of the strongest weight bearing components (the axles) and the
weaker components (vehicle body, frame, suspension, and tires).

So you need to upgrade the body, frame, suspension and tires to safely
increase GVWR.  Or just move some load to the trailer to reduce GVWR;
just keep it within GCWR.
Steve Lusardi - 08 Mar 2006 05:14 GMT
The problem isn't just modifying the vehicle to increase the GVWR,  it is
the certification of the increase for liability purposes. It is simply not
within the economic capacity of an individual owner.
Steve

> certain posters on different RV boards suggest that a dodge dually is
> capable of far more than the posted gvwr, suggesting that its set based on
> the load rating of your tires.  anyting to this?  will higher rated tires
> increase your gvwr?
> thanks,
Nathan W. Collier - 08 Mar 2006 05:35 GMT
> it is the certification of the increase for liability purposes.

certification with who?  when i registered my truck at the dmv i licensed it
to 18000#.

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Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com

Steve Lusardi - 08 Mar 2006 11:28 GMT
Nathan,
If you are involved in an accident and the insurance company found you had
exceeded the manufacturer's GVWR and in their opinion contributed to the
accident, they are no longer liable. You just let them off the hook. Just
imagine the hassle with the courts, the lawyers, the cost, your time and
possible bankruptcy. Do you think for a single moment that you could defend
your self modifications over the factory recommendations successfully? Are
you sure you want to do this?
Steve

>> it is the certification of the increase for liability purposes.
>
> certification with who?  when i registered my truck at the dmv i licensed
> it to 18000#.
RamMan@dodgecity.cc - 09 Mar 2006 01:21 GMT
Steve hit the nail on the head here. If you exceed the manufacturer's GVWR
(or GCWR) and are involved in an accident where it can be forensically
determined that exceeding manufacturer's weight specifications contributed
either to the cause or the severity you will be in some expensive trouble.

Just because you're not a commercial hauler does not absolve you of
liability for exceeding vehicle ratings. You can be fined just as severly
and shown to be criminally negligent.

When we were investigating the 5th wheel RV thing last month and looking
into suitable trucks to haul it with, the Dodge 1-ton dually + CTD was
only marginally legal and questionably safe with a 37-footer (Holiday
Rambler Presidential Suite) as we would be operating right up against the
wall of maximum ratings with virtually no margin for safety. True people
do it all the time, even with less truck and get by, but that doesn't make
it safe or wise. Idiots are born every day. In our opinion the FL50 was
the more appropriate truck for that specific RV.

>Nathan,
>If you are involved in an accident and the insurance company found you had
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>> certification with who?  when i registered my truck at the dmv i licensed
>> it to 18000#.
SnoMan - 09 Mar 2006 11:11 GMT
>Nathan,
>If you are involved in an accident and the insurance company found you had
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>you sure you want to do this?
>Steve

Not really true. With most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks there is a lot of
reserve axle capacity. The onlu difference between current 3/4 ton and
1 ton SRW P/U's is tires and maybe a extra leak in rear and a lable on
door. Chassis is the same otherwise. You have to be a lot more
carefull with 1/2 tons as they have a lot less reserve. GVW's like tow
ratings are more a product of marketing demands than anything because
if you look at a 98 Ford or GM 1/2 P/U you will find that the new
models have less spring in the rear than older ones with the same or
higher GVW rating. Same with GM 3/4 tons too. To improve ride for
sales they reduced spring capacity resulting in a mushier truck at GVW
with new models than with older ones.

>>> it is the certification of the increase for liability purposes.
>>
>> certification with who?  when i registered my truck at the dmv i licensed
>> it to 18000#.
Mike Simmons - 08 Mar 2006 10:25 GMT
> certain posters on different RV boards suggest that a dodge dually is
> capable of far more than the posted gvwr, suggesting that its set based on
> the load rating of your tires.  anyting to this?  will higher rated tires
> increase your gvwr?
> thanks,

Nate:

Nothing can change your vehicles GVWR.  It is set by Dodge and cannot be
changed.  It is certified to FMVSS standards at the time of manufacturer.
You "can" do mods that will increase the weight carrying capacity, but this
will do nothing to change the GVWR as certified.

The GVWR is determined by the manufacturer through testing and is determined
in part by the load carrying capacities of various components.  The
component(s) that has the lowest weight rating is usually the primary factor
is GVWR.  Look at it like a barrel with staves of various heights.  Even
though some staves are quite high, the total water carrying capacity of the
barrel is determined by the shortest stave.

Mike
Nathan W. Collier - 08 Mar 2006 19:24 GMT
> Nothing can change your vehicles GVWR.

i guess its time to go look at an F550.  :-(  i want to add a toolbox
utility bed to my truck so that i can have both the utility capability and
the slide-in camper while pulling a trailer.  i HATE to think that there
isnt a cummis powered pickup capable of this in the dodge line....and id
have to step up to an F650 to get the cummins in a ford.

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Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com

td - 09 Mar 2006 00:41 GMT
Found this quote:

According to Harry Thompson, chief of the NHSA's Vehicle Crash
Avoidance Division, modifying GAWR is much easier than changing the
GVWR of a vehicle. Upgrading the axel rating can be as simple as
changing out the tires. Modifying the GVWR is a difficult thing to do,
requiring modifications such as the addition of frame stiffeners or
augmenting the vehicle's structure in other ways, he said.

Looks like the poster to that RV board must have got confused; tires
increase GAWR.  This link is also worth a read even though it is about
adding mods for disabled people it looks like fines would be involved
if the mods are not  consistent with motor vehicle safety and the
Vehicle Safety Act:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/interps/files/23087.rbm.html
Nathan W. Collier - 09 Mar 2006 02:16 GMT
> Looks like the poster to that RV board must have got confused; tires
> increase GAWR.

thanks.  as much as i hate to say it, ill probably have a powerstroke F550
in my yard soon.  the F series truck is awesome, but i dont like the
powerstroke.

Signature

Nathan W. Collier
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com

FMB - 09 Mar 2006 12:51 GMT
>> Looks like the poster to that RV board must have got confused; tires
>> increase GAWR.
>
> thanks.  as much as i hate to say it, ill probably have a powerstroke F550
> in my yard soon.  the F series truck is awesome, but i dont like the
> powerstroke.

Nate, there is an alternative.  It seems you can have your cake and eat it
too, you just have to pay for it.  It seems enough folks have decided to
plant a Cummins into their Ford to make a little industry of it.  Go to
www.fordcummins.com and look at that feasibility.  Its only money.

FMB
Max Dodge - 09 Mar 2006 14:05 GMT
Or he could go with a Freightliner and choose his power as well as having a
better truck than a Ford.

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Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

>>> Looks like the poster to that RV board must have got confused; tires
>>> increase GAWR.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> FMB
Christopher  Thompson - 10 Mar 2006 15:35 GMT
now there's an idea. a friend of mine just bought a freight pickup. thing
looks sweet (not to mention huge)

Signature

-Chris
05 CTD
99 Durango

> Or he could go with a Freightliner and choose his power as well as having a
> better truck than a Ford.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> >
> > FMB
 
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