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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / April 2006Trans fluid or additive ?
Rather than have the Dealer$ do the tranny flush and change I went to Pennzoil drive in . 2002 Dakota Quad w 4.7. Next time to dealer, they remark tranny fluid is no good, needs flush, I didn't have time to give them the 3rd degree but they claimed they looked at it again and didn't just go by the 'denied' note on last visit... ya right. So I went back to Pennzoil. They claim they put in: "Mercon/Dexron III ATF" plus additive "7176" to birng it to correct Dodge spec.. Is this bull ? Is it acceptable ? Is the correct stuff not available straight ? They claim its not available 'straight'. Thanks for any and all input. It drives fine that I can tell, just don't want damage or warranty voided. Get that stuff out of there. Mercon/Dextron + an additive is not the way to go. 7176 is an additive that claims to add similar characteristics of Mopar ATF+3. From Allpar's website: "Do not use Dexron with an additive. Richard Widman passed us an extensive report from reputable gas company Chevron, which compared ATF+3 fluid with Dexron plus various additives. They found that neither of two major brands matched ATF+3's performance specs." Furthermore your 2002 most likely requires fully synthetic ATF +4 (Check your manual). Most non-chrysler shops do not have ATF+4 because until recently only Mopar made it. The shop will most likely argue like crazy for the reason that they do not have ATF+4 and apparently don't even have ATF+3. For the $'s saved it's simply not worth it. Use the fluid specified by Dodge. > Rather than have the Dealer$ do the tranny flush and change I went to > Pennzoil drive in . 2002 Dakota Quad w 4.7. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks for any and all input. > It drives fine that I can tell, just don't want damage or warranty voided. Just keep driving it and before you get 10,000 miles on that fluid, you will know you made a mistake. Shifts will get slower than it will not want to go into overdrive. Then a few grand for a rebuild.Pay a few hundred now or a few thousand later. > Get that stuff out of there. Mercon/Dextron + an additive is not the way > to go. 7176 is an additive that claims to add similar characteristics of [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> It drives fine that I can tell, just don't want damage or warranty >> voided. > Just keep driving it and before you get 10,000 miles on that fluid, > you will know you made a mistake. Shifts will get slower than it will [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >>> It drives fine that I can tell, just don't want damage or warranty >>> voided. Appreciate the feedback, will deal with it asap. First to Pennzoil for a refund, then maybe the dealer inspite they want 3 times the money !!! almost 300 bux !!! Anymore info with references keep it comin', printing them out and going back to Pennzoil for either ATF+4 or my money back !! Thx Ron > Appreciate the feedback, will deal with it asap. > First to Pennzoil for a refund, then maybe the dealer inspite they want > 3 times the money !!! almost 300 bux !!! > > Anymore info with references keep it comin', printing them out and going > back to Pennzoil for either ATF+4 or my money back !! $300 for a tranny flush at your dealer? That seems WAY too high. Dealers here are about $100 for ATF+4. Check your manual for required fluid type. My guess is that your manual will indicate ATF+4 is required. If so there is no argument the penzoil shop can offer since the additive they use only brings it (supposedly) to ATF+3 specs. ========= ========= > $300 for a tranny flush at your dealer? That seems WAY too high. > Dealers here are about $100 for ATF+4. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > shop can offer since the additive they use only brings it (supposedly) > to ATF+3 specs. =========== =========== I get $149.00 for the service on that truck. not a flush job....a trans service. ~:~ MarshMonster ~when it comes to rebuilds......if you wanna rush it, flush it~ > I get $149.00 for the service on that truck. > > not a flush job....a trans service. If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. If that includes the above plus a changing all fluid then its not too bad. > If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few quarts > of fluid then $149 is way too high. Not really. $30-$40 for the fluid (remember, DC thinks +4 is liquified gold)... $20 for the filter/gasket... $90 for the hour labor (minimum charge)... it adds up. >> If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few >> quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. > > Not really. $30-$40 for the fluid (remember, DC thinks +4 is > liquified gold)... $20 for the filter/gasket... $90 for the hour > labor (minimum charge)... it adds up. Also note I was talking canuck bucks :-) >>> If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few >>> quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Also note I was talking canuck bucks :-) If he has the tow package and changes both the filters it will take 2 gal (8 quarts) of ATF+4 to top off a 45RFE. I buy 6 gal (a case) at a time for around $17.50ea > Not really. $30-$40 for the fluid (remember, DC thinks +4 is liquified > gold)... $20 for the filter/gasket... $90 for the hour labor (minimum > charge)... it adds up. How much fluid is in the pan? My dealer charges $150 to drop the pan, change the filter AND do a complete flush. Quite a few more quarts of that liquid gold stuff! . > How much fluid is in the pan? My dealer charges $150 to drop the pan, > change the filter AND do a complete flush. Quite a few more quarts of > that liquid gold stuff! =========== =========== What is a complete flush? jest curious ~:~ marsh ~sips his crownroyal...takes a hit off his dooby......wonders if he should restring his Penn tonight~ > What is a complete flush? > > jest curious Changing ALL fluid, not just what drains out of the pan. ========= ========= > >marshmonster wrote: > > What is a complete flush? > > > > jest curious ======= ======== miles answered: > Changing ALL fluid, not just what drains out of the pan. ========= ========= Oh. How do they get it all out? again, jest curious ~:~ Marsh ~sips his crownroyal.......lights a smoke.....wonders.....if he should run out to the outfitters shop......nah.....my takle box is full~ > Oh. > > How do they get it all out? The line going to the cooler is opened and the old is pumped out as new is put in. Considerably more fluid is changed this way. Still, I like to drop the pan now and then to change the filter. I suppose the bands could be adjusted at this time as well but most seem to tell me little adjustment is needed unless high mileage. > > If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few quarts > > of fluid then $149 is way too high. > > Not really. $30-$40 for the fluid (remember, DC thinks +4 is liquified > gold)... $20 for the filter/gasket... $90 for the hour labor (minimum > charge)... it adds up. ========= ========= Finally........ we agree. :) ~:~ marsh ~is still looking for that srt10 with the tranny he wants it to have........ oh well.......a repost in 3 or 4 years and i'll be vendicated~ > Finally........ > > we agree. Oh, we've agreed on other things in the past... I just never told ya :) > > If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few quarts > > of fluid then $149 is way too high. > > Not really. $30-$40 for the fluid (remember, DC thinks +4 is liquified > gold)... $20 for the filter/gasket... $90 for the hour labor (minimum > charge)... it adds up. ========= ========= Tommy, he's most likely got 2 filters. The screw on cannister type also. ~:~ marsh ~adds more mushrooms to the pot.......mmmm......this is gonna be some good tea~ ========== ========== > > I get $149.00 for the service on that truck. > > > > not a flush job....a trans service. ========== ========== > If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few > quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. If that includes the above > plus a changing all fluid then its not too bad. ========== ========== and yer a sevice advisor.........where??? lmao ~:~ MarshMonster ~you've always got that QuicklyLubeIt option......but....better make sure them teenagers don't add powersteering fluid to yer brake resevoir~ >> If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few >> quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. If that includes the above [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > and yer a sevice advisor.........where??? And this is funny cuz why? <<INLINE>> =========== =========== > >> If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few > >> quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. If that includes the above > >> plus a changing all fluid then its not too bad. > > > > ========== > > ======== > > and yer a sevice advisor.........where??? ======== ======== > And this is funny cuz why? ======== ======== we must be reading different threads..... i appologize. I thought we were "both" reading this one.....where everyone BUT you seems to think that my price is fair. again, my apologeeeeze ~:~ Marsh ~sips his crownroyal.....takes a hit off his doooby~ > <<INLINE>> > =========== [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > seems > to think that my price is fair. Fair? Depends on your area. Here, I would say you are the highest I have seen....and therefore, not fair. NYC, you might be bottom of the barrel cheap. > again, > my apologeeeeze > > ~:~ > Marsh > ~sips his crownroyal.....takes a hit off his doooby~ > "Marsh Monster" <MarshMonster2624@aol.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > seems > > to think that my price is fair. ======== ======== > Fair? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > NYC, you might be bottom of the barrel cheap. =========== =========== Do me a favor. Get a price on the "canister" filter, the regular filter, 7 quarts of ATF4, and a pan gasket. Then.....add a bit for labor, you make the call, charge a fair price on your labor. Post the results. Then I'll tell you how much money YOU ARE LOSING after doing the job 10 times. oh yeah, and if you find some shops out there that are doing this service with both filters and using ATF4 for under $100......then stay away from them. They're likely using the service as a "Loss Leader" to upsell you. jest a caution for you, take it for what it's worth. (or what you think it's worth...lol) any whoooo..... a simple few minutes on the phone for you and post the results. respectfully submitted, to prove a point ~:~ MarshMonster ~takes a hit off his dooby.........mmmmmm........wonders if you're one of "those" that think mechanics shouldn't eat as well as everyone else, take vacations, and buy his kids cloths from places other than the ole GoodWill store...... or.....if you jest fall for every lost leader ad~ ~pay a mechanic~ ~save a kid~ ~:~ >> "Marsh Monster" <MarshMonster2624@aol.com> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Then I'll tell you how much money YOU ARE LOSING after doing the job 10 > times. Ya know...I have heard this over and over and over again...you leave money on the table...etc... Funny...im not hurting, and im not hurting for work. what works for YOU, might not work for me. What works for you in YOUR area, might not fly here. > oh yeah, > and if you find some shops out there that are doing this service with > both > filters and using ATF4 for under $100......then stay away from them. > They're likely using the service as a "Loss Leader" to upsell you. Doubtful...I know the wholesale price on all that, and ya know, its quite possible, that they are simply being quite.....fair. > jest a caution for you, take it for what it's worth. > (or what you think it's worth...lol) Scare tactics. love it. See it all the time.. Joe Blow is charging $2500 for that unit, and XYZ company is charging $4250 for the same stuff, and who you think will do the better job....etc...etc..etc.. Blah. Its like this...if I post the wholesale prices on here, (you do remember the old mans got a dealership...) then the high priced fellas might just go...damn..that aint right, and NO..that AINT the price wholesale.. Would just f.cking suck would it not? Particularly, in most cases, its not the PARTS you are selling, its your SERVICE. Make it a hell of a lot harder to justify raping peeps wont it? Before you start...I am what some call a whore in the AC biz...Im cheaper than most of the guys here, but I bet I make more than the higher guys...:) Figure it out. > any whoooo..... > a simple few minutes on the phone for you and post the results. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > ~:~ > > =========== > > =========== MarshMonster wrote: > > Do me a favor. > > Get a price on the "canister" filter, the regular filter, 7 quarts [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Then I'll tell you how much money YOU ARE LOSING after doing the job 10 > > times. > > oh yeah, > > and if you find some shops out there that are doing this service with > > both > > filters and using ATF4 for under $100......then stay away from them. > > They're likely using the service as a "Loss Leader" to upsell you. ======== ======== aka-SBM wrote in message: > Doubtful...I know the wholesale price on all that, and ya know, its quite > possible, that they are simply being quite.....fair. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > than most of the guys here, but I bet I make more than the higher guys...:) > Figure it out. ========== ========== I'm not wanting to start anything. But if you're a.s is gonna spout off and say that I'm overcharging, then back it up with the proof. And.... I don't have a thing against productive debate.....but I've got a dang mighty rampant disposition on folks that go spouting off that I don't know my sh.t and then can't, won't, are unwilling to, or don't know how to back up THEIR acusations with FACT. That's all I asked for. Now..if you think someone in here is shallow minded enough to not realize that a damned dealership isn't making a profit, or that their wholesale prices are bit better than over the counter sales......then you're a fk'n idiot!! hows that for start'n. Now..before you go start'n on me, all I've done is ask you to prove, or backup the fact that you insuated that I overcharge for a service that a whole hell of a lot of posters to THIS thread are backing up to be average. If you want to start a flame....which I don't think you do, and I certainly don't care one way or the fk'n other, then I suggest you google my handle and add a few cus words to it. Then talk to Tommy who's attempted it himself. (whom i must admit i'm growing fond of) any whoooo..... By YOUR own posting I can see why you're called a WHORE in the AC biz. me....??....... personally.... I GIVE A sh.t WHAT BRAND OF PARTS I STICK ON MY CUSTOMERS CARS. I don't know how old you are, don't give a sh.t!! I don't know how long you've ACTUALLY been turning wrenches and selling jobs, again....don't give a sh.t!!! But, I 'm going to give your ignorant a.s some FREE advice. Consider it a sales seminar.....NO FK"N CHARGE. pay attention, only one free seminar per cussingmer now........ If you're NOT selling the quality of the parts you're using. Then, YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON MY FK'N CAR. cuz....I'm liable to thunk yer using AutoZonedOut crap, jest to save a buck. now....if no ones bothered to tell you... you're a whore if you put cheap parts on, charge a cheap price, JUST TO GET THE JOB!!!!!! and...that statement of yours concerning this...totally negates any fk'n service you could possibly be attempting to sell. you know....Midas stays reeeeeellly bizzy putting on them mufflers they're buying for $6-$12. You know, the ones that rust out after one winter because the road salt eats their a.s. any whooooo...... live in your $69 tranny service world on this particuler unit. me, I'm eating steak tonight, and ain't fk'n nobody in the process. tell yer pop i said keep up the good work, thems some fine filters he's sell'n> ~:~ MARSHMONSTER ~:~ >> > =========== >> > =========== [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > THEIR > acusations with FACT. Ok..Im an a.s, and you are an ignorant fucktard. I never said you were overcharging..but you know..its obvious that you are. > That's all I asked for. > Now..if you think someone in here is shallow minded enough to not [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > any whoooo..... > By YOUR own posting I can see why you're called a WHORE in the AC biz. Yea...sucks to command $140 an hour, get it, and still be the cheap boy in the area..its ok..its paid for a home on both coasts, a fleet of trucks, and several toys... One you might have seen several times, as many in here have....and they can tell you...no dumbass put it together...or rather..someone like you would be told to get his f.cking mitts off it, or lose em. > me....??....... > personally.... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If you're NOT selling the quality of the parts you're using. > Then, YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON MY FK'N CAR. You could not get that lucky..but then, you are a relative newbie here, so its ok. I doubt that you would want me to anyway..I mean..from some of the sh.t you posted in here, Im sure you are quite happy with your POS jalopy. > cuz....I'm liable to thunk yer using AutoZonedOut crap, jest to save a > buck. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > tell yer pop i said keep up the good work, thems some fine filters he's > sell'n> Yea..Mopar....care for me to post the f.cking wholesale prices with part numbers? > ~:~ > MARSHMONSTER More like Mushhead.. Well, looks like we found another to add to the SF file that was started so long ao.. Oh..and you keep on charging...from the looks of things, you might even need to go up. I mean...with gas hitting $3.60 a gallon here, I might have to go up another couple of bux an hour...LOL... God..what an idiot....welcome to silence...killfiles a great f.cking thing for fucktards like yourself. > ~:~ aka-SBM wrote in message: > Ok..Im an a.s, and you are an ignorant fucktard. > I never said you were overcharging..but you know..its obvious that you are. > > > Yea...sucks to command $140 an hour, get it, and still be the cheap boy in > the area..its ok..its paid for a home on both coasts, a fleet of trucks, and > several toys... > Yea..Mopar....care for me to post the f.cking wholesale prices with part > numbers? > > ~:~ =========== =========== I'm surprised at you......!!!!! wasn't it you who said, and I quote: "Let them know what you did, why you did it, and address all their concerns. Do that, and you can charge whatever you want and tehy will call. " So, I guess we know how you got that fleet of trucks aye. By bullshit'n your way into rip'n folks off. any whooo...... as far as posting the prices...... YOUR REFUSAL to do so is what started all this. asswipe and as far as being a newbie in this NG, well, believe what you want you ignorant fk. ~:~ marsh ~takes a pull on his homegrown......mmmm......that's some good stuff~ >>> If your shop is only dropping the pan, replace the filter and a few >>> quarts of fluid then $149 is way too high. If that includes the above [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And this is funny cuz why? Dunno, but I know that there are SEVERAL shops around here that are $118-$135 for a flush. > Appreciate the feedback, will deal with it asap. > First to Pennzoil for a refund, then maybe the dealer inspite they want [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thx Ron ========== ========== Ron, check yer mail again. ~:~ Marsh ~:~ Ok, I have to say this has me worried a little. I have a '91 Dakota that I usually take to Pennzoil for oil change, air filter, etc. One of the last times I took it there they drained all the oil out and told me to "start 'er up" (I always stay in the car while they do the work). When I asked if they had put oil back in they looked dumbfounded. But, back to topic, I had them to change the trans fluid and occasionally the truck won't go into over drive. What do I need to do to halt any further damage?! Take it to a dealer/professional and have them flush it? Thanks, Matt > Just keep driving it and before you get 10,000 miles on that fluid, you > will know you made a mistake. Shifts will get slower than it will not want > to go into overdrive. Then a few grand for a rebuild.Pay a few hundred now > or a few thousand later. > Ok, I have to say this has me worried a little. I have a '91 Dakota > that I usually take to Pennzoil for oil change, air filter, etc. One [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> not want to go into overdrive. Then a few grand for a rebuild.Pay a >> few hundred now or a few thousand later. Just an update on my scenario, spoke to Pennzoil EZlube manager after gathering some online material plus help from Tom Lawrence and Marsh Monster.He finally agreed to get in ATF+4. Later that day the owner called to confirm 'he had been on the phone all morning with Chrysler' the bulk ATF+4 was coming in from Chrysler. He still backs the thousands of Dodges he has used his base fluid with appropriate additive method but will redo mine so I don't ever have to battle a warranty. He must have been stonewalled pretty good by Dodge.... So I go in tomorrow, inspect the bulk barrel label and have it redone. I agreed to pay an extra $35 can for the difference in fluid costs.... Fair is fair. Ron update again after if nec. Ron wrote in message: > <snip> > Later that day the owner called to confirm 'he had been on the phone all > morning with Chrysler' the bulk ATF+4 was coming in from Chrysler. <snip > So I go in tomorrow, inspect the bulk barrel label and have it redone. > I agreed to pay an extra $35 can for the difference in fluid costs.... > Fair is fair. > Ron > update again after if nec. ========= ========= glad to hear they're working with you Ron. ~:~ marsh ~:~ > Ron wrote in message: >> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > marsh > ~:~ Just came back, no bulk, they had to buy _50_ Mopar 1 litre plastic jugs to fill up their machine so it only had ATF+4 in it ! Their wholesaler says Dodge is the only mfgr that stick to the "no-subs" rule. They are giving in for me but insist there is evidence and laws contrary to argue Dodge's stand. ... I'm not interested in that battle.... Ron PS Do you think the next Dodge is going to get ATF+4 ????? > Ok, I have to say this has me worried a little. I have a '91 Dakota that I > usually take to Pennzoil for oil change, air filter, etc. One of the last [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> want to go into overdrive. Then a few grand for a rebuild.Pay a few >> hundred now or a few thousand later. Matt, what I said above only applied to the 45RFE and the 545RFE transmissions. They are only used behind the 4.7L and 5.7L HEMI. You don't need ATF+4 in your truck. Do they change your transmission filters at Pennzoil if so you done what you can do, being a 91 it may be getting to the end of it's life. I'd get some referrals from friends, and coworkers for a shop that only does transmission work. You don't need the dealers high prices. =========== =========== > Rather than have the Dealer$ do the tranny flush and change I went to > Pennzoil drive in . 2002 Dakota Quad w 4.7. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks for any and all input. > It drives fine that I can tell, just don't want damage or warranty voided. ============ ============ Ron, check your mail. ~:~ MarshMonster ~:~ |
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