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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / June 2006CNG conversion
It's been years (40+ for a fact) since I've converted an engine to CNG. I've two Caravans (04/05) and a 98 RAM 1500 I'd like to have as duel fuel. I've been all over the net, mailed a lot of letters and made more than a few phone calls with the result that while all agree CNG conversion is better than slice bread but no one seems has any idea where I can get practical information on the process, options or hardware to make the conversion. Any thoughts, recommendations or links? Regards They are very popular in Holland for American vehicles and range between 2,000 and 5,000 Euros. In Holland they are used with LPG, but can be calibrated for CNG. Beware that the major difference in cost reflects lost horsepower. Up to 25% on the inexpensive systems and nothing on the high end kits. Steve > It's been years (40+ for a fact) since I've converted an engine to CNG. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Regards > They are very popular in Holland for American vehicles and range between > 2,000 and 5,000 Euros. In Holland they are used with LPG, but can be > calibrated for CNG. Beware that the major difference in cost reflects lost > horsepower. Up to 25% on the inexpensive systems and nothing on the high end > kits. > Steve CNG or LPG? Either way you will want American Impco equipment and not Vialle or some import stuff in the US. Vialle will not sell to the US making parts a matter of finding a transshipper in Europe. CNG has virtually no range unless you put in huge amounts of high pressure tankage. You also need your own fuel compressing station. LPG is much more satisfactory in every way, safety, range, etc. | > They are very popular in Holland for American vehicles and range between | > 2,000 and 5,000 Euros. In Holland they are used with LPG, but can be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | pressure tankage. You also need your own fuel compressing station. LPG | is much more satisfactory in every way, safety, range, etc. This is in the USA. I've done this before so I've got the land side covered, my problem is finding information and hardware. I'm aware of the limitations on the availability of fueling stations. For my needs 99% of the driving is within a round trip of our bases (note the 's') were we will have compressor systems. Those beyond we plan to switch to regular liquid gasoline >CNG has virtually no range unless you put in huge amounts of high >pressure tankage. You also need your own fuel compressing station. LPG >is much more satisfactory in every way, safety, range, etc. I agree with this. LPG (propane) is a far better motor fuel. Easily stored in a liquid state in a tank and even though the tank is heavier than a gasoline tank, the fuel weighs only 4 lb per gallon vs 6.5 for gas and it has a higher energy desity per pound tha gas does too. Also if you make it a one way conversion, (no longer plan to burn gas) you can take advantage of propane very high octane and raise CR to 12 to 1 or more and actually get more power out of engine and increase MPG on LPG because it has less BTU per gallon than gas and with a higher CR ratio you will extract more usable work from each gallon and approach gas MPG on a fuel that cost less. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com | >CNG has virtually no range unless you put in huge amounts of high | >pressure tankage. You also need your own fuel compressing station. LPG [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | The SnoMan | www.thesnoman.com LPG cost vary as a function of oil (it is a petroleum by product) and second, I have a ready supply of NG under a long term contract. As to changing the CR I'm not interested in rebuilding the engines. >LPG cost vary as a function of oil (it is a petroleum by product) and >second, I have a ready supply of NG under a long term contract. As to >changing the CR I'm not interested in rebuilding the engines. Not as much as you think because LPG (Propane) is mostly a by product of fuel production (they used to burn it off at refiners up to 1950's or so until they developed a market for it) If you look at stock trading historys of propane it has varied about 22% in last 18 months, crude oil about 55%, heating oil/diesel fuel about 60% and gasoline about 90%. During this same period of time natural gas varied about 230% with a nasty spike Sept 05 and Jan 06 where it traded for more than twice current amount and I look for it to repeat pattern this fall/winter too. These are all comodities prices not what they sell for at end user but it show you how stable base price is or is not at wholesale level. Of all of these LPG (propane) is the most stable pricewise and it should con tinue to do so because supply exceeds demand for it and will for some time too because the more fuel they make, the more LPG byproduct they have. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com "SnoMan" < | >LPG cost vary as a function of oil (it is a petroleum by product) and | >second, I have a ready supply of NG under a long term contract. As to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] | make, the more LPG byproduct they have. | ----------------- | The SnoMan | www.thesnoman.com What you say may be correct globally but for whatever reason, locally the LPG prices have not been that stable. Regardless, and I don't mean to be augmentative, but my contract for NG is both low and fixed for a long enough period that CNG is economically my best option for this project. What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to make the conversions. http://www.uscarburetion.com/  Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > "SnoMan" < > | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to > make the conversions. http://www.uscarburetion.com/ Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > "SnoMan" < > | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to > make the conversions. http://www.uscarburetion.com/ Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > "SnoMan" < > | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to > make the conversions. http://www.uscarburetion.com/ Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > "SnoMan" < > | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to > make the conversions. http://www.uscarburetion.com/ Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > "SnoMan" < > | [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to > make the conversions. What was that website again? :^) Lol....sry about that but my OE was freaking out. Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > What was that website again? :^) >What you say may be correct globally but for whatever reason, locally the >LPG prices have not been that stable. It is at the local profit taking level, not is main supply because it has been very stable there in US market supply. >Regardless, and I don't mean to be augmentative, but my contract for NG is >both low and fixed for a long enough period that CNG is economically my best >option for this project. I understand where you are coming from here but I see natural gas getting even worse in supplies in future as demand increases and curtiousy of current admin they even built power plants to use it in last 5 years even though we have a 300 to 500 years supply of know coal reserves (the largest in the world). You will need a lot of heavy and larger tanks to store CNG at high pressure to get any range at all while propane is a lot eaiser to store. >What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to >make the conversions. Try the links below for starters http://www.technocarb.com/brouchures.htm http://www.hendrixsystems.com/ ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com > What I need to know is where can I source the hardware and how-to data to > make the conversions. This is who we did business with back in the early 90s http://www.angiinternational.com/ |
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