All technically correct. However, as we found when investigating towing
5th wheel RVs, whatever aftermarket mods you make have absolutely no
bearing on the manufacturer's published specifications. It is those
published specs that the law goes by and an excessive GCWR load will still
get you ticketed and towed in Illinois and Indiana, irrregardless of any
suspension mods you might have made to accommodate the load. Moral of the
story is if you need a 1½ ton truck, get one.
>All technically correct. However, as we found when investigating towing
>5th wheel RVs, whatever aftermarket mods you make have absolutely no
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>suspension mods you might have made to accommodate the load. Moral of the
>story is if you need a 1½ ton truck, get one.
THis is over played because if you look at the rear suspension 90's
Doge, Ford or GM truck, you will find that there is less springs back
there now with a higher rated GVW to boot. Just because it says it on
the door does not always make it so. I no of noone ever busted for
being over GVW with a P/U (other than licesned weight for tags). You
to major concerns with pressing GVW's is spring capacity and tire
capacity with the later the most important for saftey. The axles,
frames and brakes are that same. I have a 2000 K3500 SRW that is only
"rated at 9200 GVW but it has more spriongs for the factory than a new
2500 HD with same GVW rating. I have had it past 10k many time in
winter with no problems at all with handling or stopping abilty and it
will carry a load well that will make a like "rated" 2500HD squat
badly. YOu can not always take factory rating as the gosphel because
on some model they are more focused on ride quailty for sales than
real laod capacitry. Lok at a pre 88 GM 1500 4x4 and you will find 4
leaf and a booster in rear, on a 88 thru 99 3 leafs and a booster and
current models two leafs and a booster (same leaf width and thickness
too). Other brands have done simulair and likewise you will see the
same of "less is better" other the years with 3/4 models too. THis is
okay if you want a softer riding truck but you do not pad the rating
to a higher GVW like Detriot has for sales while doing it. ALso take a
1500HD and a 2500HD, same tires springs and chassis yet one is rated
8600 and the other is 9200 and common sense would tell you that the
9200 would have atleast another leaf but it does not. THe rear axle is
different (the 1500HD 9.5 will handle about 3 ton well and the 2500 HD
will handle 4ton but you will exceed true spring capacty before you
even come close overloading the 3 ton axle. Some do not like to hear
this though because they want to believe otherwise.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
Christopher Thompson - 11 Jul 2006 06:26 GMT
> >All technically correct. However, as we found when investigating towing
> >5th wheel RVs, whatever aftermarket mods you make have absolutely no
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the door does not always make it so. I no of noone ever busted for
> being over GVW with a P/U (other than licesned weight for tags).
so because you know of no one busted that means that no one ever has, no
ever could be, and that its ok to exceed the safety limits set by the
manufacturers engineering department?
You
> to major concerns with pressing GVW's is spring capacity and tire
> capacity with the later the most important for saftey. The axles,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> on some model they are more focused on ride quailty for sales than
> real laod capacitry.
so because you say they are worried about ride quality its ok to overload
the factory specs?
Lok at a pre 88 GM 1500 4x4 and you will find 4
> leaf and a booster in rear, on a 88 thru 99 3 leafs and a booster and
> current models two leafs and a booster (same leaf width and thickness
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> even come close overloading the 3 ton axle. Some do not like to hear
> this though because they want to believe otherwise.
really? sorry but ill take the word of the manufacturer on the safe load
specs on the trucks, im betting they know a thing or two more about the
trucks they build.

Signature
-Chris
05 CTD
06 Liberty CRD
Real trucks don't need spark plugs
> -----------------
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com
Carolina Watercraft Works - 11 Jul 2006 15:57 GMT
You seem to be missing one hugely important factor here...
Besides the fact that you could possibly receive a citation from a law
enforcement official....lets just say that by some remote chance you
were involved in an accident while you were towing your overweighted
combination and it was your fault. How quickly do you think your
insurance company would use that to their advantage and not have to
pay up because you exceeded the safe operating paramaters of your
vehicle and quite possibly drop you completely? At the same time
the other person's insurance company would nail your sack to the wall
and propel you to financial ruin if it is a serious enough of an accident.
Beyond that alone, you also have the GAWR, GCWR, and GVWR
issues to consider.
Is the price difference worth the risk?

Signature
------------------------------------------
Laszlo Almasi
----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works)
----Mack Daddy Trailers
----Ice Angels
>>All technically correct. However, as we found when investigating towing
>>5th wheel RVs, whatever aftermarket mods you make have absolutely no
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com
Christopher Thompson - 11 Jul 2006 17:32 GMT
> You seem to be missing one hugely important factor here...
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Is the price difference worth the risk?
witch was exactly my point in all my "so because snoman says so, makes it
ok?"question, although i didnt go directly into that, in my previous
responce. if you need the higher weight ratings or think you might need them
someday, the price differance between the trucks is negligable as compared
to the possible consiquences. you have to ask yourself one simple question,
is it really worth risking my life, the life of others, and my financial
future possibly just to save a little jack at the beginning?.

Signature
-Chris
05 CTD
06 Liberty CRD
Real trucks don't need spark plugs
>
> >>All technically correct. However, as we found when investigating towing
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> > The SnoMan
> > www.thesnoman.com
Carolina Watercraft Works - 11 Jul 2006 18:27 GMT
I'm in agreement with you 100%.

Signature
------------------------------------------
Laszlo Almasi
----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works)
----Mack Daddy Trailers
----Ice Angels
> witch was exactly my point in all my "so because snoman says so, makes it
> ok?"question, although i didnt go directly into that, in my previous
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> is it really worth risking my life, the life of others, and my financial
> future possibly just to save a little jack at the beginning?.
RamMan@dodgecity.cc - 14 Jul 2006 14:24 GMT
I don't know what the other states do, but both Illinois and Indiana have
*very* aggressive DOT safety enforcement bureaus and those folks are pros
when it comes to knowledge of vehicle tow & load ratings and their keen
ability to just eyeball your rig rolling down the road and tell that
you're loaded beyond safe rated limits. In both states mentioned above
they will stop you in a heartbeat, escort you to a scale and begin writing
tickets. Whether you're a professional trucker or mom, dad & the kids
heading out for a camping trip, it doesn't matter to these "special" DOT
cops. Safety is their first concern.
When we were looking at big 5th wheel RVs earlier this year and trying to
select the appropriate tow vehicle, we of course were "told" by many
uncredentialed, self-proclaimed experts that (in a literal sense) we could
pull a freight train with a Mini Cooper. Of course whether it's *able* to
tug it down the road vs. doing so in a safe and legal manner are two
entirely different points and the subject of some often times heated
debate. Even setting up such a rig (Truck + 5th wheel RV) to just barely
meet "legal" specs (i.e., with the 3500 diesel dually) vs allowing for a
very comfortable margin of safety (minimum 20%) pointed us toward the 1½
ton D50 every time.
Yes, certainly we could have done it with a 2500 SRW short bed, but
prudence and good judgement said the D50 and G-rated tires was the way to
go.
>You seem to be missing one hugely important factor here...
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Is the price difference worth the risk?
Joe Smith - 14 Jul 2006 16:43 GMT
> Whether you're a professional trucker
> or mom, dad & the kids heading out for a camping trip, it doesn't
> matter to these "special" DOT cops. Safety is their first concern.
Uh, no. Generating revenue is their first concern. That is the reason they
exist.
RamMan@dodgecity.cc - 15 Jul 2006 02:46 GMT
>> Whether you're a professional trucker
>> or mom, dad & the kids heading out for a camping trip, it doesn't
>> matter to these "special" DOT cops. Safety is their first concern.
>Uh, no. Generating revenue is their first concern. That is the reason they
>exist.
Knowing that then it probably behooves you to make sure you don't attract
any of their revenue-generating attention. Yeah, I know one of the
Illinois DOT cops and yes he is something of a 'hot-dog'. The guy has
vision like a cat. He can be rolling down I-57 at 70 mph and spot a
reciprocity violation passing the opposite direction at highway speed.
Truckers will tell you getting stopped by a DOT cop is worse than a
speeding ticket because you'll be on the side of the road for a good 30
minutes while he goes over you with a magnifying glass.
As a trucker, another nasty ticket to get is a speeding ticket from a
private cop working for your vehicle insurance company.
ttravelor - 17 Jul 2006 02:36 GMT
Laszlo,
Any thoughts on paying any of the money you owe on your account?
Beesley's Point Sea-Doo 609-390-1113 in case you lost the number.
Tom
> You seem to be missing one hugely important factor here...
>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
> > The SnoMan
> > www.thesnoman.com