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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / August 2006Dodge Ram with Front Frame Rail Damage?
I was just about to buy a used truck (2004 Dodge Ram 4x4 Diesel) and just before we finalized the deal, I found out it was in an accident (even though the dealer said it was not - even in WRITING). When I obtained detailed claim information from the insurance company, I found out it the front left and right rails had been repaired (about 4 hours of labor total). Apparently, this truck was involved in an accident in a parking lot and had around $7,000 in repairs. Looked more like the previous owner rear-ended someone. While I know that buying a used vehicle with frame repair is usually a no-no, is there anyway of knowing if the repair was done perfectly - so it will never develop faults in the drivetrain as a result or so it will not compromise safety in a future accident? Privacy laws prevent me from finding out who did the repairs. Perhaps I should just run away now? Thanks, Paula Personally, I would run just because the dealership lied, but a Ram 1500? with a Cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. >I was just about to buy a used truck (2004 Dodge Ram 4x4 Diesel) and > just before we finalized the deal, I found out it was in an accident [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks, > Paula It's a 3500, but I am sure that makes little difference. Yeah, they lied not once, but TWICE (they also lied about the black book value, which we later verified on-line). So, we then spent two days grinding them down with a new set of offers based on our CORRECT information. When they said they would give us the no-accident report the day we picked up the truck and handed over our money (but not sooner than that), it sent off some warning bells with us, so we paid to pull the accident history (and then both my husband and I promptly had catastrophic hissy fits). We're definitely walking away from this deal now, and we're trying to decide if we should keep any kind of decent relationship with the dealer to try and get a deal on another truck (they definitely have incentive to TRY to keep as happy) or write a nasty letter to DaimlerChrysler in the hopes that this dealer will lose their 5 star rating. But, then again, maybe it's their policy to lie to customers (just as long as we don't find out - and if we do, just make sure we can't prove it) so writing a letter would be a waste of time. Perhaps the BBB? Ohhh...I don't know, I am still soooo mad about all of this, I can't even think straight..... Thanks for your comments! Paula > Personally, I would run just because the dealership lied, but a Ram 1500? > with a Cummins and frame rail damage would make me cautious. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thanks, > > Paula > It's a 3500, but I am sure that makes little difference. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >> > Thanks, >> > Paula Boy you folks are just looking to get screwed aren't? Why the hell would you continue to deal with a dealer that is dishonest? I'd look elsewhere for a truck. > > It's a 3500, but I am sure that makes little difference. > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > continue to deal with a dealer that is dishonest? I'd look elsewhere for a > truck. Aren't all dealers dishonest, though? I mean, why are there so many used carsalesman jokes? Dishonestly is their policy. It's up to the buyer to ensure they are getting a fair deal (independent mechanical inspection, accident report information, black book value on-line, carfax, etc., etc). They are just the middle man, really. I think everything coming out of a salesperson's mouth is pretty much a lie most of the time - they are selling - so of course they have to tell you lies! If I could find the truck I want privately, I'd do that, but there's just none out there - and there hasn't been for the past several months. We're looking for a 3500 RAM Diesel 4x4 with a manual transmission, so it's a much harder find. Besides, we want a Dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers in our local area. So if we cut this one out (and it's the biggest one) that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. It's really the only reason I am considering dealing with this scum again (THAT, and the minute possibility that they MAY want to try to make things RIGHT). Does that make more sense, or should I still RUN? Paula >> > It's a 3500, but I am sure that makes little difference. >> > [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > months. We're looking for a 3500 RAM Diesel 4x4 with a manual > transmission, so it's a much harder find. Where are you located? > Besides, we want a Dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers > in our local area. So if we cut this one out (and it's the biggest > one) that reduces our inventory by a huge amount. It's really the only > reason I am considering dealing with this scum again (THAT, and the > minute possibility that they MAY want to try to make things RIGHT). I have a bridge I will sell you as well. > Does that make more sense, or should I still RUN? No!! Yes!!! > Paula > Aren't all dealers dishonest, though? I mean, why are there so many > used carsalesman jokes? Dishonestly is their policy. It's up to the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Does that make more sense, or should I still RUN? No, not all dealers are dishonest. Some can be trusted...You can justify this bad deal till you are blue in the face. If you want to buy this vehicle from a dealer that out right lied to you, go for it. Personally, I'm not afraid to buy a vehicle that has been hit and fixed correctly but I would "demand" quite alot off of retail. I wouldn't buy this one though, plus I wouldn't buy any vehicle from this dealer. He could have said "this vehicle has been in an accident but it has been fixed correctly". What would have been so hard about saying that? > > Aren't all dealers dishonest, though? I mean, why are there so many > > used carsalesman jokes? Dishonestly is their policy. It's up to the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > dealer. He could have said "this vehicle has been in an accident but it has > been fixed correctly". What would have been so hard about saying that? It would have been hard on his wallet because then he would probably have to lower the price some after admitting that this truck has had some structural damage.  SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >Besides, we want a Dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers >in our local area. So if we cut this one out (and it's the biggest [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Does that make more sense, or should I still RUN? Given that is it a Cummins and the the engine is very heavy the damage to frame was likely related to engine mounting in frame rails which weakened it. Unless they replaced the frame in truck, I would run not walk for this deal and this dealer because they are not playing it striagth at all and should be avoided at all costs. All used car salesman are a bit shadey but some more than others. Whay do you think that 94 is on the lot anyway because how ever had it did not want it anymore from damage either. It is possible that deal may not have known about damage but you both know now for sure. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com > Given that is it a Cummins and the the engine is very heavy the damage > to frame was likely related to engine mounting in frame rails which > weakened it. WRONG!!! My Cummins is mounted to a frame, and the frame is undamaged. What damaged the frame on the truck in question is unknown, but it sure as hell wasn't the engine mounts. Further, the engine mounts did not weaken the frame. > Unless they replaced the frame in truck, I would run not > walk for this deal and this dealer because they are not playing it > striagth at all and should be avoided at all costs. Jeez, I have to agree here...... > All used car > salesman are a bit shadey but some more than others. Whay do you think > that 94 is on the lot anyway because how ever had it did not want it > anymore from damage either. It is possible that deal may not have > known about damage but you both know now for sure. Yup... run screaming from this truck. SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >>Besides, we want a Dodge truck and there are only about 4 or 5 dealers >>in our local area. So if we cut this one out (and it's the biggest [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com >WRONG!!! My Cummins is mounted to a frame, and the frame is undamaged. What >damaged the frame on the truck in question is unknown, but it sure as hell >wasn't the engine mounts. Further, the engine mounts did not weaken the >frame. Yours was not in the wreck and the engine is mounted to the main frame in one way or another as its masses (about twice the weight of a gas engine) will increase chance or frame damage in a wreck because of the momentemum of engine is much larger to stop. It has the same frame as a gas truck so in the same impact the is a higher potenail for frame damage and weaking. THere are those that think that this added mass is transparent though while it is not. In a wreck it has to be stopped too and unless engine impacts something itself to will place the force to stop it on the frame. If you rear end someone at 20, the stored monemtum in the CTD is the same to stiop (in relation to frame) as a 30 MPH impact with a gas engine. Simple physics. 4 hours of straightening work on frame means it was damaged a good bit and weakened in the process beacuse once metal is driven to "yeild" this why, its strength is diminished unless it is retreated which is impaossible to do with frame in truck as work require a serious shop to do it too. ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com Spare us the long explanations. You said the diesel was why there was extensive frame damage. Its simply not so. The frame is designed to handle the weight of the diesel, the fact that it has gasoline engines as options is irrelevant to the frame construction, as its (again..) designed for the load of the diesel. What damamged the frame was the impact. If your claims were correct, my aerial act in my 2000 (where it was well over 4 feet in the air) would have ripped the engine loose. It did not. Please drop the "diesel sucks" bias and get a grip on reality. SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >>WRONG!!! My Cummins is mounted to a frame, and the frame is undamaged. >>What [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com >Spare us the long explanation I know when it is long and technical. it escapes you so you discount it. It does not change the facts no the less even if you choose to ignore them ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com >>Spare us the long explanation > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com No, it's more like you can't write worth a sh.t and ramble on and on worse than a six year old. Denny > I know when it is long and technical. it escapes you so you discount > it. It does not change the facts no the less even if you choose to > ignore them How about when its long and full of sh.t? I didn't ignore the facts, I ignored your complete and utter bullshit story. Got anything else to say, or will you be insulting the collective intelligence again? SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >>Spare us the long explanation > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com >How about when its long and full of sh.t? > >I didn't ignore the facts, I ignored your complete and utter bullshit story. > >Got anything else to say, or will you be insulting the collective >intelligence again? Just got to get nasty huh. Do it make you feel good??? Yes you do ignore the fact because you think that putting a 1300 lb motor into a light duty truck frame makes it a semi tractor and you are kinda lost here. I drove dump trucks in 70's as summer jobs while going to college for engineering degree and they were power by what you would call "wimpy" gas motors yet they regulaly hauled GVW's of 30 tons and more without fail and did a good job of it too. Why because they had the frame, tranny, and gears to go with the loads. Dodge uses same frame gas of diesel and you choice to ignore the effect of this extra weight in a crash and what it can do to frame shows to total lack of understanding and who really is clueless. Be it a 10 or 20 MPH impact, the frame will be twisted and torque with twice the energy on impact for the CTD mass vs a gas motor and that energy has to go somewhere. This is not about diesel sucks which you claim, it is about the physics here and the damage possible by it. Grow up and get a life! ----------------- The SnoMan www.thesnoman.com >>How about when its long and full of sh.t? >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >The SnoMan >www.thesnoman.com snoman: claming to know engineering and physics is different than knowing engineering and physics. you got the claiming part down, it is just the knowing part that you got all messed up. for me, the knowing part is what matters. that is why you don't. > Just got to get nasty huh. Do it make you feel good??? Stated facts are not nasty unless you don't like them. > Yes you do ignore the fact because you think that putting a 1300 lb > motor into a light duty truck frame makes it a semi tractor and you > are kinda lost here. Well, I think its you who are lost... its an 1100 lb engine, and the truck frame was designed with the engine in mind. Regardless of the frame classification, it'll take FAR more than what the engine weighs. I've had 7000 lbs in the bed of the truck, I doubt the 1100 lb engine will do anything to the frame that the sand bags or shingles did not. >I drove dump trucks in 70's as summer jobs while > going to college for engineering degree and they were power by what > you would call "wimpy" gas motors yet they regulaly hauled GVW's of 30 > tons and more without fail and did a good job of it too. Why because > they had the frame, tranny, and gears to go with the loads. SFW? > Dodge uses > same frame gas of diesel and you choice to ignore the effect of this > extra weight in a crash and what it can do to frame shows to total > lack of understanding and who really is clueless. They use the same frame because its designed for the diesel, thus it will handle the gasoline engine easily. > Be it a 10 or 20 MPH > impact, the frame will be twisted and torque with twice the energy on > impact for the CTD mass vs a gas motor and that energy has to go > somewhere. This is not about diesel sucks which you claim, it is about > the physics here and the damage possible by it. The key word here is "possible". Its possible in any scenario to have massive damage due to collision. However, it is NOT possible to have massive damage simply because of the engine mounted on the frame. > Grow up and get a > life! Sage advice for one who cannot state a straight fact to save his own a.s. SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >>How about when its long and full of sh.t? >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > The SnoMan > www.thesnoman.com The BBB won't be your best bet probably - they have no governing ability, and participation by the business is voluntary. I would check with your state or province's government to see if there's some sort of licensing board for dealerships, and if so, contact them about the problem. I think that would get a lot more done, after all, who wants to get in trouble with the government? ;-) -Lint > It's a 3500, but I am sure that makes little difference. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >>> Thanks, >>> Paula Go directly to the Attorney General of the State or Province, they can tell you who will deal with that sort of thing. What that dealer did was nothing short of bait and switch... "pay us for the truck THEN we'll let you in on the secrets...." SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > The BBB won't be your best bet probably - they have no governing ability, > and participation by the business is voluntary. I would check with your [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >>>> Thanks, >>>> Paula Suddenly, without warning, Max Dodge exclaimed (29-Jul-06 6:44 AM): > Go directly to the Attorney General of the State or Province, they can tell > you who will deal with that sort of thing. What that dealer did was nothing > short of bait and switch... "pay us for the truck THEN we'll let you in on > the secrets...." I thought "bait and switch" was "pay us for this expensive thing and we'll sell you this other, cheaper thing instead"? I'd definitely follow your advice. Good case too, sounds like the OP has the whole thing well documented. jmc > Suddenly, without warning, Max Dodge exclaimed (29-Jul-06 6:44 AM): >> Go directly to the Attorney General of the State or Province, they can [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > jmc I would also file a complaint with the BBB although they have no teeth, someone researching who to do business can see that there has been complaints about dishonest business practices against said company. these complaints list as resolved or unresolved, in the BBB files. Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. > I thought "bait and switch" was "pay us for this expensive thing and we'll > sell you this other, cheaper thing instead"? Thats pretty much what they've asked him to do.... "buy this expensive truck, and we'll sell you this damaged not so expensive truck." The AG's office is where all of this dealer sort of thing ends up in PA, I figure its gotta be a good place to start elsewhere. Documentation is the key... and the OP is in the driver's seat on this. I smell a free truck...... SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) > Suddenly, without warning, Max Dodge exclaimed (29-Jul-06 6:44 AM): >> Go directly to the Attorney General of the State or Province, they can [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > jmc > Go directly to the Attorney General of the State or Province, they can tell > you who will deal with that sort of thing. What that dealer did was nothing > short of bait and switch... "pay us for the truck THEN we'll let you in on > the secrets...." That is not a bait and switch Max. A bait and switch is when they present a deal that simply cannot be passed up and when you go for it, they then say that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have this other deal that is almost as good, maybe even better when in reality, the second deal is far less. What they are doing is flat out lying. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > That is not a bait and switch Max. A bait and switch is when they present > a > deal that simply cannot be passed up Sorta like a great price on the truck of their dreams? > and when you go for it, they then say > that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have > this other deal that is almost as good, maybe even better when in reality, > the second deal is far less. Right, like when the dealer lowers the price on another truck to make the sale after being informed of the junk truck. (We're awfully sorry, can we offer this other truck to you at a better price?) Then the buyer spends in haste because they are all psyched up to make a purchase. (Sure, because we need a truck and we have cash in hand.) > What they are doing is flat out lying. Yeah, like they do in a bait and switch? Oops, sorry, forgot that you know it all. Ever been in the used car business, or just a buyer? SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >> Go directly to the Attorney General of the State or Province, they can > tell [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > this other deal that is almost as good, maybe even better when in reality, > the second deal is far less. What they are doing is flat out lying. > > That is not a bait and switch Max. A bait and switch is when they present > > a > > deal that simply cannot be passed up > > Sorta like a great price on the truck of their dreams? Yea, but in this case they intended to sell them that particular truck for the quoted price. In a bait and switch, the item used for the bait is never the one to be sold or at least never at the initial deal. > > and when you go for it, they then say > > that for whatever reason this deal is no longer available but we do have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Right, like when the dealer lowers the price on another truck to make the > sale after being informed of the junk truck. Are we rewriting history here? The OP never said that the dealer offered them a different truck. > (We're awfully sorry, can we > offer this other truck to you at a better price?) And that would be terrific if it happened that way but it didn't. > Then the buyer spends in > haste because they are all psyched up to make a purchase. (Sure, because we > need a truck and we have cash in hand.) Once again, a good story but has nothing to do with the OP's situation. > > What they are doing is flat out lying. > > Yeah, like they do in a bait and switch? But the difference is what they are lying about. In a bait and switch, they mislead the customer about the deal but in this case, they were lying about the vehicle. > Oops, sorry, forgot that you know it all. Not all but once again, more than you. > Ever been in the used car business, or just a buyer? I have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesn't mean that I don't understand how it works from both sides. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> Ever been in the used car business, or just a buyer? > > I have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesn't mean that I > don't understand how it works from both sides. Actually, thats exactly what it means. Nuff said. SignatureMax "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >> > That is not a bait and switch Max. A bait and switch is when they > present [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > I have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesn't mean that I > don't understand how it works from both sides. > >> Ever been in the used car business, or just a buyer? > > > > I have never bought a used car from a dealer but that doesn't mean that I > > don't understand how it works from both sides. > > Actually, thats exactly what it means. Nuff said. Actually, it means nothing at all as is the case with many of your posts. Perhaps there is a reason why I never bought a used car from a dealer. The fact that you didn't address any of my responses besides this one is what really says it all but feel free to respond again, we could all use the laugh. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving I know of a 97 2x4 3500 CTD ex cab here in texarkana, or a 96 4x4 ex cab 2500 CTD, it is the same lot i got my 95 from, if you like i will give you his number catch me here: billyk@valornet.killall.com >I was just about to buy a used truck (2004 Dodge Ram 4x4 Diesel) and > just before we finalized the deal, I found out it was in an accident [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks, > Paula |
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