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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / August 2006

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Biodiesel?

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Scott - 30 Jul 2006 23:54 GMT
Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
diesel pickup that get 45-50 MPG.  Do you have to get a kit to run the
biodiesel or just put it in like regular diesel fuel?  Saw on
Mythbusters that they went and got used vegge oil and ran it in a
filter and just put it in an diesel car and it ran with no problem.
Also has anyone else ran biodiesel in a cummins?

Thanks for all the comments,
Scott
Max Dodge - 31 Jul 2006 00:50 GMT
Biodeiesel can be run without mods to the engine. However, the usual
cautions apply... must be filtered to remove all particulates etc. There are
many good sites online to read for info.

Cummins official statement says that they don't recommend biodiesel, simply
because no standard of quality exists. By this they mean that no set scale
of quality has been put forth for the bio fuel, so they cannot say with any
assurance what biodiesel will do when burned in their engines. They do say
that biodiesel can be run in a Cummins, but that one should be cautious of
power upgrades while running bio because regular diesel may have more power.
Thus an uprate for bio burning may produce unwanted effects when switching
back to mineral diesel fuel.

However, in reading Cummins Engine's site on this topic, you will find that
they do not give approval for biodiesel.

Signature

Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

> Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
> can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks for all the comments,
> Scott
Chris Thompson - 31 Jul 2006 03:08 GMT
> Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
> can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks for all the comments,
> Scott

I have in the past and do still run b20 in both of mine. only thing I have
noticed is a reduction in smoke. no real impact on fuel mileage (at least
not to speak of) or power.

Signature

----------------------------
-Chris
05 CTD
06 Liberty CRD

Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs.

SnoMan - 31 Jul 2006 03:46 GMT
>Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
>can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Thanks for all the comments,
>Scott

I do not see biodiesel as a long term solution. It has emission issues
particularly with NOx which is a good bit higher with higher
concentrations of bio fuel and even the chemists are not quite sure
why but it is a problem and given that starting in 2008 that diesel
are going to have a lot stricter NOx limits than they have escaped in
the past this sheds even more of a shadow on biodiesels future. SOme
will say I am being biased but diesels are very big NOx generators and
have been for years (far worse than gas vehicles which have long been
strictly regulated on NOx) and the more you boost them and the worst
they get. Non turbo diesels are the least offensive NOx wise. Starting
in 08 and later years you are going to see a lot of changes with them
and some of them may not be favorable performance wise either as they
try to bring them into compliance. With a modern hitech diesel I would
stick with good quality straight diesel and limit the usage on bio
diesel to older ones (10 years or more older) with theor simpler
injection systems that are generally more reliable too.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
Max Dodge - 31 Jul 2006 08:00 GMT
> I do not see biodiesel as a long term solution.

Of course you don't, you are spouting off as usual.

> It has emission issues
> particularly with NOx which is a good bit higher with higher
> concentrations of bio fuel

Yeah, except.... (pdf file warning for the dial-up guys)

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/emissions.pdf#search='Biodiese
l%20fuel%20emissions
'

If you read this, you notice some things..... such as....

"Criteria pollutants are reduced with biodiesel use. Tests show the use of
biodiesel in diesel engines results in substantial reductions of unburned
hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and particulate matter. Emissions of nitrogen
oxides stay the same or are slightly increased."

Notice that they directly contradict your staterment.

And...

"Nitrogen Oxides -- NOx emissions from biodiesel increase or decrease
depending on the engine family and testing procedures. NOx emissions (a
contributing factor in the localized formation of smog and ozone) from pure
(100%) biodiesel increase on average by 10 percent. However, biodiesel's
lack of sulfur allows the use of NOx control technologies that cannot be
used with conventional diesel. Additionally, some companies have
successfully developed additives to reduce Nox emissions in biodiesel
blends."

Notice that in the event of higher NO2 emissions, the lack of sulphur
content allows the use of technologies that were otherwise nullified by the
presence of the sulphur in mineral diesel.

> and even the chemists are not quite sure
> why but it is a problem

Apparently the chemists DO know why it is, and have SOLVED the problem.

> and given that starting in 2008 that diesel
> are going to have a lot stricter NOx limits than they have escaped in
> the past this sheds even more of a shadow on biodiesels future.

More bullshit from the unenlightened. Try reading.

SOme
> will say I am being biased but diesels are very big NOx generators and
> have been for years (far worse than gas vehicles which have long been
> strictly regulated on NOx) and the more you boost them and the worst
> they get. Non turbo diesels are the least offensive NOx wise. Starting
> in 08 and later years you are going to see a lot of changes with them

Try 07, or haven't you been reading?

> and some of them may not be favorable performance wise either as they
> try to bring them into compliance. With a modern hitech diesel I would
> stick with good quality straight diesel and limit the usage on bio
> diesel to older ones (10 years or more older) with theor simpler
> injection systems that are generally more reliable too.

Sure you would, but you would also drive a 1975 dumptruck with a chevy small
block 400 and 6.55 gears if you had a choice.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/faqs/

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html

http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/vehicles/biodiesel-pilot.html

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/biodsl.htm

http://www.worldenergy.net/product/emissions.asp

There is some reading for you SnoHead...... try and figure it out.

Signature

Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

>>Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
>>can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com
SnoMan - 31 Jul 2006 13:35 GMT
>Of course you don't, you are spouting off as usual.

The only one here with that problem is you. Always trying to start
something. You must be REALY insecure or something.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
Max Dodge - 31 Jul 2006 13:45 GMT
> The only one here with that problem is you. Always trying to start
> something. You must be REALY insecure or something.

I'm not trying to start a damn thing. I'm trying to keep you from
misinforming someone without their knowledge. You had so little to say in
defense of your bullshit that it shows who is insecure... you replied
without anything to say.

Next time, shut the hell up.

Signature

Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

>>Of course you don't, you are spouting off as usual.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com
craig@metronet.com - 01 Aug 2006 01:22 GMT
> >Of course you don't, you are spouting off as usual.
>
> The only one here with that problem is you. Always trying to start
> something. You must be REALY insecure or something.

I try to keep up with the posts and I realize that none of us are
experts on everything.  Do you? We can all contribute as long as our
contribution isn't based on the lack of facts resulting in someone
going away with the wrong information and possibly f.cking up their
vehicle.

At this point, with your posts on Cruise Control and Biodiesel, your
credibility is seriously scarred.  Now, you're just pissing people off.

Suggestion: stick to what you know when it comes to advising people
about their cars/trucks.

Max's reading suggestions are recommended ... additionally, there are
literally thousands of web sites that contain factual information about
biodiesel.  All you have to do is read.

Craig C.
JustMe - 31 Jul 2006 18:35 GMT
>>Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
>>can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> The SnoMan
> www.thesnoman.com

Does that mean that biodiesel with work in Scotts 82 VW pickup without any
modifications or not?
Max Dodge - 31 Jul 2006 21:47 GMT
> Does that mean that biodiesel with work in Scotts 82 VW pickup without any
> modifications or not?

I'll re-iterate, since the point seems to have been lost....

Each diesel should be able to burn biodiesel. However, it will depend on the
individual batch of bioD how well each individual engine burns it.

Signature

Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

>>>Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
>>>can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Does that mean that biodiesel with work in Scotts 82 VW pickup without any
> modifications or not?
Ray Turner - 01 Aug 2006 00:01 GMT
> I do not see biodiesel as a long term solution. It has emission issues
> particularly with NOx which is a good bit higher with higher
> concentrations of bio fuel...

Actually, depending on who's "facts" you cite, NoX bio-emissions are not
that much higher than diesel.

I don't understand why the industry and government are not working on
clean-diesel scrubber technology to zap emissions.  If we spent 1% of our
military budget on this issue - it would be a non-issue in less than a
year.

Diesels are the most efficient engine around - ALL of our engines should
be running this fuel.
Nosey - 01 Aug 2006 03:04 GMT
> Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
> can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks for all the comments,
> Scott

Scott, I think you are confusing burning straight vegetable oil (SVO)
and biodiesel. In order to burn straight vegetable oil you need to
install a kit. The kit basically involves installing a second heated
fuel tank. You also have to insulate or heat the fuel lines running
from the veg oil tank to the fuel filter. You start and warm up the
engine on diesel fuel. When the engine is warm and the oil tank is
heated enough you switch to burning vegetable oil. About 5 minutes
before shutting the engine off you switch back to burning diesel fuel
to flush out the fuel lines and filter.
Biodiesel is a fuel much like diesel fuel. It's made from vegetable oil
or animal fats. To burn biodiesel you don't have to alter most diesel
vehicles. On some older vehicles like the VW you are considering you
might need to change some of the fuel lines. Biodiesel will eat away
natural rubber fuel lines. I just started making my own biodiesel so
I'm not an expert on the subject but I have done some research. There
is an excellent forum that discusses both biodiesel and SVO systems at
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ . I highly recommend reading up on both
sections of the forum before you decide which one is right for you.
--
Ken
Scott - 01 Aug 2006 03:27 GMT
> > Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
> > can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> --
> Ken

Thanks for the infomation.  Thats what i needed to know.  I read some
sites said running straight vegge oil will work on a diesel, but it did
not specify of any mods. to the engine.  

Thanks,
Scott
JEB - 01 Aug 2006 03:08 GMT
Visit TDIClub.com.  There are a number of individuals there making there own
biodiesel, using waste oil or just regular biodiesel.  My 2002 Jetta likes
the biodiesel but does seem to take a small hit in mpg.

By the way, you might want a newer VW diesel - there are also some listed on
the above website.

JEB

> Hey all.  I was just wondering about switching to biodiesel, because i
> can't afford to pay $3.00 a gallon for diesel.  I found an 1982 VW
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks for all the comments,
> Scott
 
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