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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / September 2006V10 poor towing performance
Help! Just added a 23' fifth wheel camper, pulling it with a 1999 2500 V10. The trailer is only about 6500 pounds, so I thought the V10 would have no problem towing it. The rig tows great on flat highway or small hills, but on bigger hills it slows down to about 50 and just wont go faster. It's an automatic, and I've tried with the OD off and on. Gas mileage is about 11 highway unloaded, 6 with the trailer. The truck runs great, and unloaded it's a rocket. 65000 miles, been well maintained and other than the poor towing performance it's a great truck. New MOPAR factory rebuilt trans at 50k, It seems ok and has a nice firm shift. Trans fluid is nice and clean. Any ideas ? Plugged CAT ? I really want to keep this truck, but can't do 2000 mile trips with this really crappy towing performance. Thanks > Help! Just added a 23' fifth wheel camper, pulling it with a 1999 2500 > V10. The trailer is only about 6500 pounds, so I thought the V10 would [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks Your best bet is to take the truck to the local Dodge Dealer after you pull out all your personal stuff, and ask him to replace it with anything '03 and newer with a Cummins (305HP or better). I just got back from a camping trip (to Hat Creek, Mac) and got 20 unloaded and 12 pulling an Artic Fox 24-5N 5th. Second best, and way far away from the Best Best, is check to see if you have the right rear end for towing. Milage will suffer but you may be able to pull the hills. FMB >Your best bet is to take the truck to the local Dodge Dealer after you pull >out all your personal stuff, and ask him to replace it with anything '03 and >newer with a Cummins (305HP or better). I just got back from a camping trip >(to Hat Creek, Mac) and got 20 unloaded and 12 pulling an Artic Fox 24-5N >5th. Stupid Idea. Very Stupid and expensive too and it will NEVER EVER pay for itself no matter how long you keep it. A well tuned and feed Dodge V10 with proper gears will tow anything a stock cummins will. Back in 03 in Colorado I ran accross this Dodge truck pulling this big 5th wheel through the rockies and he was making the bacon and passing everything even on grades. I caught up to him and passed him at a little over 80 in my burb (I has not towing) and it was a V10 not a CTD. It was impressive. >Second best, and way far away from the Best Best, is check to see if you >have the right rear end for towing. Milage will suffer but you may be able >to pull the hills. A few things here, what tires size do you have and what axle ratio? Also that engine is octane hungry and will run a lot better on 89 octane or better. Trying to feed that thing 87 octane towing especailly on a warm day is just about a crime. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com . >>Your best bet is to take the truck to the local Dodge Dealer after you >>pull [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > little over 80 in my burb (I has not towing) and it was a V10 not a > CTD. It was impressive. i disagree as i got rid of my v10 because of fuel milage and cost. 11 mpg city? he must have a lighter foot than i do. mine was 10 best. 5 to 6 towing sounds about right. i would suspect a air flow problem possibly, have it checked by someone who knows what they are looking at. or take the advice of FMB i would. i traded a 99 v10 for an 05 Cummins powered ram, and there is no comparison, absolutively NONE!! 19 city and 21 highway is far better than 10 and 13 unloaded oh not to mention the 16 towing. yup thats right a full 10 miles to the gallon more towing is what im seeing out of Cummins over my old v10. so yup it will pay for its self faster than you would think. especially with fuel at or over $3 a gal. >>Second best, and way far away from the Best Best, is check to see if you >>have the right rear end for towing. Milage will suffer but you may be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com the fuel bill on a v10 is a crime!!!! who can afford 10 mpg or less towing or not??? give me diesel any day. but I get it. you don't like diesel and that's your prerogative.  Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs >i disagree as i got rid of my v10 because of fuel milage and cost. 11 mpg >city? he must have a lighter foot than i do. mine was 10 best. 5 to 6 towing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >old v10. so yup it will pay for its self faster than you would think. >especially with fuel at or over $3 a gal. I will bet that you fueled you V10 with 87 octane too. Contray to popular belief it is not the best choice but many that do not understand octane and engine true requirement hang on to 87 for dear life and then complain about power power and MPG. Sure it may never get great MPG but 89 octane is 30 cents cheaper than diesel here and diesel averaged abut 75 cents more a gallon last winter here and I expect the same this winter or higher still. So what are we saving here when you factor in truck option price too????? The V10 is likely one of the finest gas tow motors ever built (when feed properly) second only to a 8.1 maybe and WAY ahead of a higher HP rated Hemi in towing power. I nearly bought a Dodge 03 ext cab with a V10 and a 5 speed a few years ago. It was a very impressive truck power wise and would pull strongly from about 1000 RPM to past 4000 and never miss a beat. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > popular belief it is not the best choice but many that do not > understand octane and engine true requirement hang on to 87 for dear > life and then complain about power power and MPG. With the lower compression of the V10, 87 octane is not a problem. I ran (heck, still do) 87 in my V10 in all but the hot summer months, where I would notice a slight ping on WOT acceleration, with a Mopar PCM (which advances the timing). When I switched back to the stock PCM, I couldn't get it to ping. So, contrary to YOUR belief (and it's just that - a belief, as - with many other things - you have no first-hand experience to offer... just a bunch of pontifications, half-truths, and down-right rediculous claims), 87 octane is not a problem in this engine. > get great MPG but 89 octane is 30 cents cheaper than diesel here and Well, there's your problem - you're in the wrong part of the country. Prices recently dropped here (yeah... go figure that one), but I just filled up with diesel for $2.899 the other day... 89 was $3.099 at the same place. > diesel averaged abut 75 cents more a gallon last winter here and I > expect the same this winter or higher still. Maybe so - but the engine averages twice the fuel economy, so unless diesel hits about $5.85 a gallon, it will ALWAYS be cheaper to operate a diesel than a V10. Bummer, huh? >With the lower compression of the V10, 87 octane is not a problem. I ran >(heck, still do) 87 in my V10 in all but the hot summer months, where I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >of pontifications, half-truths, and down-right rediculous claims), 87 octane >is not a problem in this engine. Tom you are one of those stubborn 87 does all guy and you havre no understanding of octane requirements in modern engines at all and it shows big time. It is because of people like you that gasser get a bad rap sometimes. 87 does not provide the octane needed plan and simple and the timing has to be retards to tolerate it. If you would have pried open your wallet and used better fuel you ould have had a different opinion of it. One of the reasons that Dodge killed it was because people such as your self were addicted to feeding it 87 towing and the engine would tend to ping and this ping (even if not heard because ECM was keeping it a low level) would cause valves to vibrate in seat and over time cause them to start to burn and fail. Rather than up octane requirements in book officailly they tried a bit in 96 bit it proved to not really help much. 87 octane was not design for such usage but wnnabe experts such your self "know" better. I actually studied IC engine desgn and theory in college many years ago and wrote a few papers on it while pesuing a engineering degree so I am not just making this up as I good like most others do. ou simply cannot burn 87 octane in a big engine on a warm day under a heavy load without compromising spark timing a lot and in doing so you kill power and MPG a lot but you would know that too if you really had a clue about what you were talking about. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > rap sometimes. 87 does not provide the octane needed plan and simple > and the timing has to be retards to tolerate it. Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane fuel. >Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >fuel. If I have to explain it to you then you are really lost. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>fuel. > > If I have to explain it to you then you are really lost. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com Please explain it to me, I'm interested. >>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>>fuel. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Please explain it to me, I'm interested. Why not find it for yourself? Google is your friend: search on "knock sensor" DJ >>>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>>>fuel. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Google is your friend: search on "knock sensor" Your missing the point. Roy > DJ that would be "you're"..................you are, not your, as in possession......sorry English cop on patrol................so much bantering here................ >>>>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>>>>fuel. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Roy >> DJ > that would be "you're"..................you are, not your, as in > possession......sorry English cop on patrol................so much > bantering here................ You are correct my little net nanny. I was too lazy to go for the additional 2 key's <G> >>>>>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 >>>>>>octane [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> Roy >>> DJ >>>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>>>fuel. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > DJ And that's the trouble isn't it? Dodge doesn't use one. >>>>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>>>>fuel. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > And that's the trouble isn't it? Dodge doesn't use one. I guess the lack of response means I'm not getting an explanation? I was looking forward to it. > Why not find it for yourself? > > Google is your friend: search on "knock sensor" You might as well search for an Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator, as it's also not found anywhere on a Dodge V10. :)) >> Why not find it for yourself? >> >> Google is your friend: search on "knock sensor" > > You might as well search for an Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator, > as it's also not found anywhere on a Dodge V10. > > Why not find it for yourself? > > > > Google is your friend: search on "knock sensor" > > You might as well search for an Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator, as > it's also not found anywhere on a Dodge V10. That's 'cuz Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulators are made from unobtanium. ;-) > That's 'cuz Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulators are made from > unobtanium. ;-) Ya mean the 37-syllable compound that uses carbon crystals suspended in a tungsten matrix? (5 bonus points for citing the movie reference) Yeah - I've been meaning to pick some of that stuff up. :) >>That's 'cuz Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulators are made from >>unobtanium. ;-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yeah - I've been meaning to pick some of that stuff up. :) The Core. Signature.boB Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red. 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver 1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast. >>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>fuel. > > If I have to explain it to you then you are really lost. > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com no I want hear this one too. you realize it doesn't have a knock sensor right???? NONE of the dodge truck engines have a knock sensor Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. >>>Please explain to me how a V10 retards it's timing when using 87 octane >>>fuel. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > NONE of the dodge truck engines have a knock sensor Then what did the dealership replace when they replaces my knock sensor in my 2000 CTD Dodge back in April? SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Then what did the dealership replace when they replaces my knock sensor in > my 2000 CTD Dodge back in April? You're joking, right? Or did they really tell you that? > Then what did the dealership replace when they replaces my knock sensor in > my 2000 CTD Dodge back in April? Maybe it was the CKP sensor? If you saved the reciept and you were actually billed for a knock sensor I'd contact the local authorities. You got robbed. SignatureKen > NONE of the dodge truck engines have a knock sensor The V-10 or 5.9 V-8 didn't use them but the others did. As per the '03 FSM, knock sensors are used only with 3.7L V-6, 4.7L V-8 and 5.7L V-8 engines. On 3.7L V-6 and 4.7L V-8 engines, the 2 knock sensors are bolted into the cylinder block under the intake manifold. On 5.7L V-8 engines, 2 knock sensors are also used. These are bolted into each side of the cylinder block (outside) under the exhaust manifold. SignatureKen forgive me ken. I was reverting back to the old days and not thinking about the new engines with that statement. Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. >> NONE of the dodge truck engines have a knock sensor > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > engines, 2 knock sensors are also used. These are bolted into each side > of the cylinder block (outside) under the exhaust manifold. > forgive me ken. I was reverting back to the old days and not thinking about > the new engines with that statement. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 05 CTD > 06 Liberty CRD I wanted to point it out before someone bashed you for it. Ya gotta be careful how you say things around here. ;^) SignatureKen > no I want hear this one too. you realize it doesn't have a knock sensor > right???? I don't believe he does. But - as usual, when confronted with facts that prove him completely wrong (reference the gear-swap thread, where he swore that Dodge used a GM 8.25" IFS on the 3rd gen 1500's), he'll simply clam up and slink away.... ... until the next outrageous claim, of course. > NONE of the dodge truck engines have a knock sensor Prior to this century, I would agree with you :) >> no I want hear this one too. you realize it doesn't have a knock sensor >> right???? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Prior to this century, I would agree with you :) I'm sorry I should have clarified some. the engine family that existed with the v10 in the br/be trucks and prior did not. I was not thinking of current engine family with that statement. that was my error. Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. >> no I want hear this one too. you realize it doesn't have a knock sensor >> right???? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that Dodge used a GM 8.25" IFS on the 3rd gen 1500's), he'll simply clam > up and slink away.... hey speaking of that, he hasnt said anything more in the "diesel dakota" thread either about the "thermal reactors" instead of "catalitic converters" has he? Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. > hey speaking of that, he hasnt said anything more in the "diesel dakota" > thread either about the "thermal reactors" instead of "catalitic > converters" has he? Nope - another conversation he threw the towel in on. > Nope - another conversation he threw the towel in on. I'm surprised one other notable know-it-all hasn't shown up to bail him out. SignatureMax Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about. "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) >> hey speaking of that, he hasnt said anything more in the "diesel dakota" >> thread either about the "thermal reactors" instead of "catalitic >> converters" has he? > > Nope - another conversation he threw the towel in on. >> Nope - another conversation he threw the towel in on. > > I'm surprised one other notable know-it-all hasn't shown up to bail him > out. Way to put the cheese on the trap, Max... :) > > Nope - another conversation he threw the towel in on. > > I'm surprised one other notable know-it-all hasn't shown up to bail him out. LOL, as much as I hate to burst your bubble, you have every bit as much of that reputation as I do, probably even more lately. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> I'm surprised one other notable know-it-all hasn't shown up to bail him > out. > > LOL, as much as I hate to burst your bubble, you have every bit as much of > that reputation as I do, probably even more lately. Why'd you automatically assume he was referring to you? I thought he was talking about Marsh, myself.... :^) Tom, are we ever going to find out how a 8.0L retards timing under spark knock conditions? Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. > Tom, are we ever going to find out how a 8.0L retards timing under spark > knock conditions? <sigh> Unfortunately, I suspect that piece of information will elude us for all eternity - much like the mysteries of Stonehenge, Atlantis, and the pyramids of Egypt. This is yet another in a great series of mysteries that man will never fully understand. > >> I'm surprised one other notable know-it-all hasn't shown up to bail him > > out. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why'd you automatically assume he was referring to you? There is no real assumption here as some things are just obvious. > I thought he was talking about Marsh, myself.... :^) ?????? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> hey speaking of that, he hasnt said anything more in the "diesel dakota" >> thread either about the "thermal reactors" instead of "catalitic >> converters" has he? > > Nope - another conversation he threw the towel in on. There sure is a pattern here. >>Your best bet is to take the truck to the local Dodge Dealer after you >>pull [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > for itself no matter how long you keep it. A well tuned and feed Dodge > V10 with proper gears will tow anything a stock cummins will. Have YOU ever owned either configuration??? Or are you just.................... >Have YOU ever owned either configuration??? Or are you >just.................... I have driven both many times and I can do math can you??? ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > I have driven both many times That's not what he asked... >> I have driven both many times > >That's not what he asked... Actually it is, I guess math and looking at the big is not one of you strong points huh whiel BS is as deminstrated in your other comments in this thread. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>Have YOU ever owned either configuration??? Or are you >>just.................... > > I have driven both many times and I can do math can you??? > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com That wasn't the question. So you have no real long term experience with one? >That wasn't the question. So you have no real long term experience with one? THrough my personal direct ownership no but through friends I know owned them and through my work and through some high level contacts I have at several dealersas well as many that I have driven I know about them well. Likely better than you. I have been messing with all kinds of 4x4 for almost 40 years now and have owned about a dozen now and woked on many others too. See when I lot at a truck, I lot at how it is built and designed for a engineering point of view from ground up, not just at the style and interior as maybe over 90% do today. I can tell you how and why things work, not if they are just pretty. How many trucks have you actually driven with a laptop hooked up to the OBD2 port to plot the difference in timing curves and resulting air and fuel flow rates under different loads with different grades of fuel? I will bet zero. I have done a lot and when some there is a big difference. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>That wasn't the question. So you have no real long term experience with >>one? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have at several dealersas well as many that I have driven I know about > them well. Likely better than you. Okay you haven't owned either truck so all your bs is strictly what you think. You also claim to know them better than I do, even though I have owned both. I bet your a expert in everything you read about aren't ya? After reading all your post's I guess I can be a proctologist. Think about it. >I have been messing with all kinds > of 4x4 for almost 40 years now and have owned about a dozen now and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > fuel? I will bet zero. I have done a lot and when some there is a big > difference. Yada,yada, more bs. What is this post your resume? Here's mine, well occupation anyway. Diesel locomotive mech. since 1972. I do know a bit about diesels, but I don't have all the answers Oh, I've been messing around for over 4X4's for over 40 years, so what? There are folks here that are a lot sharper than I am. And for sure, a hell of a lot sharper than you! Maybe you will catch on to that. You have yet to answer my question. If your logic is correct what aren't gas engines used in otr trucks? Roy . >>That wasn't the question. So you have no real long term experience with >>one? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have at several dealersas well as many that I have driven I know about > them well. Likely better than you. better than someone who actually owned them, worked on them, and drove them daily under all conditions???? come on now if you actually believe that ive got a bridge ill sell you. Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs >>Your best bet is to take the truck to the local Dodge Dealer after you >>pull [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > little over 80 in my burb (I has not towing) and it was a V10 not a > CTD. It was impressive. The way I read FMB's advice, he means that the whole truck should be replaced, not doing a V10 to diesel conversion on the OP's truck. Is that the way you're reading it? Ken > The way I read FMB's advice, he means that the whole truck should be > replaced, not doing a V10 to diesel conversion on the OP's truck. Is that > the way you're reading it? Probably not... Sno thinks all diesels are junk, and the same amount of work can be done just as well with a gasoline engine, geared like a winch. We're fairly certain a diesel touched him inappropriately as a child, and he's harboring repressed feelings of resentment and hatred. :^) >Probably not... Sno thinks all diesels are junk, and the same amount of >work can be done just as well with a gasoline engine, geared like a winch. > >We're fairly certain a diesel touched him inappropriately as a child, and >he's harboring repressed feelings of resentment and hatred. :^) Se people like you are on some kind of trip that the get a fix by putting people down. I have been around diesels in farm machinery and construction equipment for about 40 years now have you??? I know deisel ins and outs and I have had several of them as loaners for several weeks at a time and have friend with them too. See what irks you guys is that you just cannot stand it when someone does not blindly follow the diesel fumes. I was pulling some wicked loads with gas trucks long before there was a oil burner in a pickup. While going to college in 70's I drove a c70 triaxle during summer months and breaks and it "tiny" 427 with a 20 speed had no trouble moving its 60K GVW around. THe ONLY thing that holds back some gas tow vehicle is axle ratios and nothing more. Gear a gas motor properly for its power curve and load and it will pull anything you ask it too. Sure it may use more gas but fuel costs less, truck is about 6 k cheaper, it weigh 400 to 600lbs less so it can carry more payload, cheaper to maintain and insure and the list goes on. But see some of you diesel guys are just on hormones and not open to logic at all nor true cost involved too. I can co out to my gas burner when it is 20 below or colder and it WILL start instanly and smoothly and be able to drive off and heat up quickly until a oil burner and no stinky fumes, hands from fuel and I can even not have to yell in a drive thru to be heard too. If you like them fine but not in my driveway, only in the fields and such. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > blindly follow the diesel fumes. I was pulling some wicked loads with > gas trucks long before there was a oil burner in a pickup. We know... we know.... uphill, both ways, 6 feet of snow.... in July... no shoes... > GVW around. THe ONLY thing that holds back some gas tow vehicle is > axle ratios and nothing more. Gear a gas motor properly for its power > curve and load and it will pull anything you ask it too. And stop at every gas station along the way, too... > Sure it may use more gas Yeah, I'd say twice as much meets the definition of 'more' > but fuel costs less Not around here.... > truck is about 6 k cheaper By the time you fork over $12K in fuel (24,000 miles at 3 bucks a gallon, getting 6MPG), you'd have paid for that extra $6K > it weigh 400 to 600lbs less Negligible when talking about a 1-ton truck... and we're talking about towing, not hauling. > cheaper to maintain Nope - as has been shown here time and time again. The cost is the same or slightly less. > and insure and the list goes on. your insurance asks what kind of engine you have? Funny.... I paid about the same per year on my '99 V10 when it was new as I did for my '03 Cummins when it was new. They never asked about engine... body type, number of doors, yeah - engine? nope. Misrepresentation # 3,194 by you, if my count is correct. > But see some of you diesel guys are > just on hormones and not open to logic As soon as you present some logic, we'll listen. > too. I can co out to my gas burner when it is 20 below or colder and > it WILL start instanly and smoothly you mean like I did with my diesel two winters ago? Okay - granted, I had to wait about 6 seconds for the grid heaters to warm up. Wow... ya got me there. 6 whole seconds. That's worth an extra $50K in extra fuel costs (assuming the gas engine makes it to 200,000 miles - we know the diesel will) > up quickly until a oil burner and no stinky fumes the only time I've smelled any 'stinky fumes' from my truck is when I walk behind it when it's idling. If you spend all day with your nose up your truck's tailpipe, well.... > hands from fuel Don't make a mess, and your hands won't stink. Use the full service island if you're worried about mussing your manicure. > I can even not have to yell in a drive thru to be heard too. I hit the drive-thru about once a week (yeah, I know...), and they never have any trouble hearing me. 'course, when that one SOB in his BMW cut me off so he could get in line first, he had a BIT of trouble being heard.... probably something to do with my engine taching up to about 2,700RPM.... gotta get that problem looked at. > If you like them fine but not in my driveway, only in the fields and such. I do - as do a number of others. You don't, that's well established. But please, stop with all the errant 'facts' of yours. As several people have told you - a lot has changed with light-truck diesels in the past 10 years. >>Probably not... Sno thinks all diesels are junk, and the same amount of >>work can be done just as well with a gasoline engine, geared like a winch. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com If your logic is correct why aren't gas engines used in otr rigs? Or donkey engines? Hell, locomotives? Even if you possibly had some good information to share (and I doubt that very much) it is lost in your total lack of ability to express yourself coherently in writing. >>Probably not... Sno thinks all diesels are junk, and the same amount of >>work can be done just as well with a gasoline engine, geared like a winch. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com >>Help! Just added a 23' fifth wheel camper, pulling it with a 1999 2500 >>V10. The trailer is only about 6500 pounds, so I thought the V10 would [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > FMB The math doesn't always add up. If he took his truck down to the Dodge dealer and traded it for the exact same truck, except with a Cummins, it would cost him about $9,000. Check the numbers on KBB.com. According to the numbers quoted here, the diesel gets 16mpg towing, and the V-10 gets 6. That's a big difference. And straight highway driving the diesel gets 21 and the gas 11mpg. Again, big difference; but I suspect that's worse case for the gas and best case for the diesel. But how many gallons of fuel, and how many miles do you have to travel to make up that $9K? In towing miles, it's only about 30,000 miles or so to break even. In straight highway driving, it's closer to 60K miles. And that's best case scenario on today's fuel prices. Now you've got a truck that has 100-120K+ miles on it, just to break even. The Cummins will easily last twice that. But will the trans? Ball joints? Shocks? Brakes? Batteries (there are 2)? I don't think so. Heck, the original trans only lasted 50K, and the current one is now 30% into it's service life. Now the break even point just gets further away. For some people, that just doesn't make sense. RollinK, You take 2,000 mile trips with your truck and trailer. How often? 5 times a year? Ten? Once? Only plan to do it once, and then never again? I do a fair amount of towing with my small Dakota. 5-6K#, once or twice a month, 200-400 miles at a time. Gets terrible gas mileage while towing, like 8. Doesn't get much better when not towing. I've done the math, and it certainly doesn't make sense for me to trade. OTOH, if I was towing a lot more weight, or a lot more miles, it might. You can't make a blanket statement that all truck owners are better off with a big honkin diesel. That just proves you haven't done your homework. Signature.boB Arrived: 2006 FXDI, Red. 1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged Stolen 11/26/05 in Denver 1HD1GEL10VY3200010 CO License J5822Z 2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92 1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver 1965 FFR Cobra - 427W EFI, Damn Fast. Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. >> >>>Help! Just added a 23' fifth wheel camper, pulling it with a 1999 2500 [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > the diesel gets 21 and the gas 11mpg. Again, big difference; but I > suspect that's worse case for the gas and best case for the diesel. nope my numbers were dead on, what i see out of my truck with my driving habbits, embarrased mustangs and all, although there were fewer embarassed mustangs with the v10 because it just cost too much to do it *grin*. But how many gallons of fuel, and how many miles do you > have to travel to make up that $9K? > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > with a big honkin diesel. That just proves you haven't done your > homework. while true, he's driving a v10 so its safe to say he bought the truck to tow and haul, and with fuel prices the way they are, if he's using the truck for what it was built for it would make sense to buy the diesel. if he's not using it for what it was built for then the 5.9 would have been a better choice. parts more readily avail and cheaper too. just my observation. > Help! Just added a 23' fifth wheel camper, pulling it with a 1999 2500 > V10. The trailer is only about 6500 pounds, so I thought the V10 would [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks Hey man, don't tow in overdrive, at least double check the owner's manual ... I know mine says to explicitly not use overdrive for towing. I don't want to see you burn out your tranny ... later,peace -Derek Actually I have thought about buying a wrecked low mileage CTD truck and doing the swap, I have the tools and ability to do it, and I REALLY like the truck other than the towing performance. I've been told the V10 trans will mate to the CTD, does anyone know for sure about wiring harness, fuel tank and other possible problems. If I did this I would buy a wrecked doner truck to make life much easier. Also, any advise on what are the better or worse years for the CTD ? If I sell this for the Cummins, I don't want to make another mistake. Thanks Rollin > Actually I have thought about buying a wrecked low mileage CTD truck > and doing the swap, I have the tools and ability to do it, and I REALLY > like the truck other than the towing performance. I've been told the > V10 trans will mate to the CTD, does anyone know for sure about wiring > harness, fuel tank and other possible problems. If I did this I would > buy a wrecked doner truck to make life much easier. If you get the same year truck (or at least in the same 'body generation' - ie. '94-'97, or '98-'02), and you get the complete engine electrical harness (including the PCM - the computer that bolts to the pasenger firewall, which is separate from the ECM, which is the computer bolted to the driver's side of the diesel engine. The ECM runs the engine [on those that have it - see below], the PCM handles the transmission, instrument panel, pretty much everything BUT the engine operation), everything should pretty much plug together at the firewall. The fuel tank will be fine, but you'll either have to replace the fuel pump module with an empty module designed for a diesel (which is just a pickup tube and a return line), or make one yourself (simple enough to do - couple of bulkhead fittings, and just cap off the ports on the old module - it'll do a good job of sealing up the big hole it would otherwise leave in the tank if you removed it). > Also, any advise on what are the better or worse years for the CTD ? If > I sell this for the Cummins, I don't want to make another mistake. Well, it would be easiest to work with a '94 to early '98 donor truck, which came with the 12V (12 valve) diesel engine. The engine is strictly mechanical (give it +12V to the fuel shutoff solenoid, crank it over, and it'll run), meaning less wiring problems to deal with. No ECM to deal with, and minimal wiring (the fuel shutoff solenoid, a tach wire somewhere, and oil pressure and water temp sensors - that's about it). If you go this route, research the "killer dowel pin" problem, and make sure the engine you get either has this fix, or fix it before putting it in the truck (real simple to do when the engine's on a stand). If you go with a late '98 to '02 donor truck, you'll have the 24V (24 valve) semi-electronic engine. This engine has a little more electronics going on (for example, it has an ECM), as the fuel injection is partially electronic (but partially mechanical, as well). It also has an electric lift pump (the pump that pulls fuel from the tank and feeds it to the injection pump) as opposed to the earlier mechanical pump (cam-driven from the engine). Given the two, the 12V is a little more reliable, and a little better on fuel economy. The 24V has the potential for more power, because of the better-flowing head - though I get the sense you're not looking to build a competition sled-puller here. > > Actually I have thought about buying a wrecked low mileage CTD truck > > and doing the swap, I have the tools and ability to do it, and I REALLY [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > better-flowing head - though I get the sense you're not looking to build a > competition sled-puller here. A lot depends on the state he lives in and their emissions control laws. In many states you have to have your vehicles smog checked. If so, you can't easily swap engines. Al > Also, any advise on what are the better or worse years for the CTD ? If > I sell this for the Cummins, I don't want to make another mistake. > > Thanks Rollin Watch out for the 53 block. http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/read.php?id=185 SignatureKen |
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