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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / October 2006

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Christianity vs other religions

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Budd Cochran - 06 Oct 2006 06:26 GMT
"azwiley1" <azwiley1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:PtjVg.1729$v43.657@fed1read02...
> Budd, I am going to step where I know I probably shouldn't, but there is
> something that I need to ask you.  I went to a catholic grammar school and
> I am a confirmed Roman Catholic and being such I know how they teach and
> what they teach.

Thank you. Unlike, Miles, theguy, and T-bone, by knowing where you're coming
from helps me to know what to say to answer your questions. I'm honored that
you chose to ask me and I'll try to be honest and accurate for you.

I will be giving you a couple Christian websites for references, ok?

It's sorta funny, but anyone, theguy, T-bone, etc. that wanted to discuss
this topic with me could have gone to email, but I think there was a need to
try to make me look bad in public forum. Oh, well.

> Thanks to the Army and the assignments I had, I have also been exposed to
> a lot of other forms of religion, such as Muslim, Buddhism, Hinduism, as
> well as a lot of the Asian culture and beliefs, (thanks to some one I was
> dating while in Hawaii.)

I was a novice Hindu after spending 20 years as an agnostic. I became a
Christian when my wife of now 29 years insisted I go to church with her.

> If one logically thinks about this, there are religious beliefs and/or
> systems out there that are much older then the Catholic/Christianity
> system, how can they be older yet be "wrong"?

Are they really older? From the historical records, yes, they are older than
"Christianity", but are they older than Christian beliefs? I'm trying to
explain this as best I can and it's a bit long.

Let's start by assuming the Bible is accurate, historically and
scientifically. Most of this information if not all can be found at
www.carm.org along with answers to most Christian questions. I've checked
Matt Slick, website owner, and his quals and I heartily recommend the site.
Btw, for info on the Genesis record, check out
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

IIRC, in the Catholic faith, you're taught that Adam and Eve were real, then
it falls apart. Evolution has made it's way in but that doesn't fit with the
Bible record. Evolution or something like it would be needed to allow for
"older religions", but the Bible says that everyone divided  into ethnic
groups (not races! We're all one race, the Human Race) at the Tower of Babel
about 150 years after Noah's Flood, which killed everyone except Noah's
family.

From there, as they journeyed away from the group that would later become
the Hebrews, when prayers didn't get answered, they looked, as humans do,
for gods that they thought would answer their needs. Satan, that old devil,
was right there to do his worst and pretend to be a god. So you get other
religions that are not as old as the worship of Jehovah.

In fundamental Christianity, we don't count our existence only back to the
time of Jesus, but all the way back to when God said' "Let there be light.".
To us, Elohim ( Hebrew for the Three-in-one Godhead) is God. Jehovah is God
the Father. Jesus , the second person of God, became 100% flesh and 100% God
to become the only sacrifice, sent by Jehovah, the Father,  for the sins of
ALL mankind then rose in His physical body to bring Eternal Life. Then God
(Elohim) sent the Holy Spirit to comfort all that accept Christ as their
personal Savior.

Salvation is a free gift, period. You just need to ask for it. Look at it
like this: in the original language, the thief that hung beside Jesus on the
cross did not go to a "paradise", he went to Heaven, no baptism, no weekly
confessions, no tithing, no "works" or traditions.

Now, why are the other religions  "wrong" . . . .Let's look at basic
Hinduism, as an example. I spent more time studying it than anything else,
before becoming a Christian.

You seek to achieve higher and higher reincarnations until you reach the
top, Nirvana, iirc. Screw up and you're an ant to be stepped on. The rules
to follow are stifling and improbable at best. You have to earn your next
step up, so your "salvation" is not easy, not a gift,,and you drag your sins
with you until you hit the top.

They deny a source of protein that would reduce / eliminate hunger, cattle
because they don't want to eat cousin Herby. They divide their country into
castes (curiously, whites are always in the highest caste when they become
Hindi regardless of their prior status elsewhere) and deny basic rights to
the lower castes.

Is this the way to treat your fellow man?

Buddhism, I believe, doesn't offer any form of salvation but teaches you how
to feel better about your sins. I didn't look at it much because it didn't
offer much to me.

Does this mean Christians can't learn from them? No, but Christians need to
be real careful about what they consider acceptable. If a teaching conflicts
with God's teachings, God is always right.

Signature

Budd Cochran

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

beekeep - 06 Oct 2006 10:53 GMT
>Does this mean Christians can't learn from them? No, but Christians need to
>be real careful about what they consider acceptable. If a teaching conflicts
>with God's teachings, God is always right.

I believe we are seeing the birth of another Charlie Manson.

beekeep
theguy@whatever.net - 06 Oct 2006 16:40 GMT
>>Does this mean Christians can't learn from them? No, but Christians need to
>>be real careful about what they consider acceptable. If a teaching conflicts
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>beekeep

lol.
John Kunkel - 06 Oct 2006 19:32 GMT
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:26:11 -0600, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
> SPAM.net>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> beekeep

Never let them forget that Hitler was an espoused Christian; German soldiers
went into battle wearing a belt buckle that proclaimed "Gott Mit Uns".  For
those of you who do not speak German it is translated as "God Is With Us".
Advocate - 06 Oct 2006 23:10 GMT
> Never let them forget that Hitler was an espoused Christian; German
> soldiers
> went into battle wearing a belt buckle that proclaimed "Gott Mit Uns".
> For those of you who do not speak German it is translated as "God Is With
> Us".

Humans have gone into battle for countless centuries believing they were the
"Chosen Ones" regardless of their religion...from the Huns to the Lakota to
the Christians to the Jews to the Muslims. If you are a believer or not,
most atrocities through the ages have been committed in the name of God.
John Kunkel - 06 Oct 2006 19:25 GMT
> I was a novice Hindu after spending 20 years as an agnostic. I became a
> Christian when my wife of now 29 years insisted I go to church with her.

No Jesus, no pussy, huh? Are forced Christians less devout than those who
experience an epiphany?

> Let's start by assuming the Bible is accurate, historically and
> scientifically.

Assume all you want, cite all the websites and literature that you want but
the simple fact is there is no acceptable proof.
Budd Cochran - 06 Oct 2006 21:32 GMT
Sorry, this came here by mistake. I've sent a cancel message.

Signature

Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
(John Adams)

>> I was a novice Hindu after spending 20 years as an agnostic. I became a
>> Christian when my wife of now 29 years insisted I go to church with her.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Assume all you want, cite all the websites and literature that you want
> but the simple fact is there is no acceptable proof.

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

9DodgeFan - 09 Oct 2006 14:55 GMT
> > [irrelevant]
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Assume all you want, cite all the websites and literature that you want but
> the simple fact is there is no acceptable proof.

If that's how you're going to look at it, then everything in life is
assumed.  No one can prove (or ever will prove) the Big Bang.
Anyway... most of the Bible has been proven historically accurate; it
is even used as a historical authority.  A lot of the other events
can't be proven due to the divine nature of God.  For example, science
cannot prove that Jesus turned water into wine because it was a
"miracle;" there simply is no scientific explanation.  More later when
I have more time...
Budd Cochran - 09 Oct 2006 15:48 GMT
One must remember that for a proof to be acceptable to a person, the mind of
that person must be open to having their preconceptions revised.

Signature

Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
(John Adams)

>> > [irrelevant]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> "miracle;" there simply is no scientific explanation.  More later when
> I have more time...

Signature

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mac davis - 09 Oct 2006 17:20 GMT
Just curious.... IS Christianity a religion??

I thought it was a "belief" that was shared by several "religions"...

>One must remember that for a proof to be acceptable to a person, the mind of
>that person must be open to having their preconceptions revised.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>> "miracle;" there simply is no scientific explanation.  More later when
>> I have more time...

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
Budd Cochran - 09 Oct 2006 17:32 GMT
Actually, its a lifestyle.

Signature

Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
(John Adams)

> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:48:02 -0600, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@preciscom
> SPAM.net>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
> https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm 

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

miles - 10 Oct 2006 02:31 GMT
> One must remember that for a proof to be acceptable to a person, the mind of
> that person must be open to having their preconceptions revised.

Are you open minded to having your thoughts revised?
beekeep - 09 Oct 2006 22:00 GMT
>> > [irrelevant]
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>"miracle;" there simply is no scientific explanation.  More later when
>I have more time...

I bet that wine tasted like piss.

beekeep
miles - 10 Oct 2006 02:30 GMT
> If that's how you're going to look at it, then everything in life is
> assumed.  No one can prove (or ever will prove) the Big Bang.

In time the Big Bang maybe proved.  Not in our lifetime no way.  I
believe that we know maybe .00000000000001% of whats out there right
now.  We can look out at the stars and look back in time finding more
and more about the universes early years.  For me the Big Bang theory
does not conflict entirely with creationism.  Maybe the Big Bang was a
divine event.

> Anyway... most of the Bible has been proven historically accurate; it
> is even used as a historical authority.  A lot of the other events
> can't be proven due to the divine nature of God.

The Bible has a lot of history in it.  Sounds reasonable to believe a
person writing would write from ones own experiences of the time.  It's
the divine nature that is the part completely unproven.
9DodgeFan - 12 Oct 2006 21:17 GMT
> > If that's how you're going to look at it, then everything in life is
> > assumed.  No one can prove (or ever will prove) the Big Bang.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> does not conflict entirely with creationism.  Maybe the Big Bang was a
> divine event.

I think I see what you're saying:  the Big Bang could have happened
with the things that God created.  What I was trying to get at is that
there is no way that the Big Bang could have been the start of
everything; there had to have been something before that, someplace
that matter would have come from.
Budd Cochran - 13 Oct 2006 00:01 GMT
The THEORY behind the Big Bang is that energy was converted to matter . .
.where did the energy come from? What caused it to convert?

According to scientists, it had to come from matter, which came from energy,
matter, energy, matter, ad nauseum. Matter can only be converted to energy
and energy can only be converted to matter.

The only way out of that loop is by . . . . .

Creation.

Signature

Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
(John Adams)

>> > If that's how you're going to look at it, then everything in life is
>> > assumed.  No one can prove (or ever will prove) the Big Bang.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> everything; there had to have been something before that, someplace
> that matter would have come from.

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

miles - 13 Oct 2006 01:41 GMT
> The THEORY behind the Big Bang is that energy was converted to matter . .
> .where did the energy come from? What caused it to convert?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Creation.

What created 'creation'?  For your logic to hold true then the creator
had to come from somewhere.  Another bigger badder creator?

We know so little about out existence but have a mind that wants to
know.  People have a tendency to account for everything they don't
comprehend on the super natural.  It explains things that we currently
lack knowledge of for those that need such purpose in their lives to
avoid being lost.

The super natural accounting has been around far longer than the known
concept of christianity.  There have been scores of Gods all over the
world.  Many of them vastly different than the others yet they all hold
one thing in common.  They gave the people who believed in them an
explanation for what they didn't understand.

Only a 100-200 years ago many things were thought to be the work of the
super natural that we now understand as part of our daily lives.  If one
could travel back in time 200 years ago with todays technology you would
be thought of as a God.

My point is that lack of knowledge does not in any way contribute to the
proof in some sort of super natural entity.
Tom Lawrence - 13 Oct 2006 04:37 GMT
> super natural that we now understand as part of our daily lives.  If one
> could travel back in time 200 years ago with todays technology you would
> be thought of as a God.

If you could travel through time, _I'D_ think of you as a god...  :)
Budd Cochran - 13 Oct 2006 04:51 GMT
I wouldn't.

Signature

Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
(John Adams)

>> super natural that we now understand as part of our daily lives.  If one
>> could travel back in time 200 years ago with todays technology you would
>> be thought of as a God.
>
> If you could travel through time, _I'D_ think of you as a god...  :)

Signature

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Tom Lawrence - 13 Oct 2006 05:38 GMT
>I wouldn't.

Good for you
Paddy O'Day - 07 Oct 2006 01:01 GMT
> Let's start by assuming the Bible is accurate,

By making this assumption you render everything else you say ignorant
superstition and down right lies.

If you took the time to research how the bible was put together you
would know this.

Jesus preached love, tolerance and forgiveness.

Why do so many so called christians preach nothing but hate, intolerance
and damnation?

JAM
Joe Brophy - 07 Oct 2006 11:42 GMT
>> Let's start by assuming the Bible is accurate,
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>JAM

Very simply, we KNOW that this is the "morally correct" thing to do, and it is
our DUTY as citizens of the "Greatest Nation on Earth" to represent it in that
way.  We shoulder this burden accepting the ridicule of those whose beliefs fall
short of knowing the "right" way as a necessary sacrifice along with other
sacrifices such as not being able to afford to go to the doctor.  It is just
"the right thing to do".  Understand now?

Joe.
Paddy O'Day - 07 Oct 2006 16:43 GMT
> >> Let's start by assuming the Bible is accurate,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Joe.

Umm  no.

JAM
Budd Cochran - 07 Oct 2006 01:03 GMT
Just checked and Teranews doesn't accept cancel messages. Again, I
apologize.

Signature

Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."
(John Adams)

>> Budd, I am going to step where I know I probably shouldn't, but there is
>> something that I need to ask you.  I went to a catholic grammar school
[quoted text clipped - 89 lines]
> to be real careful about what they consider acceptable. If a teaching
> conflicts with God's teachings, God is always right.

Signature

Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

miles - 07 Oct 2006 01:28 GMT
> Thank you. Unlike, Miles, theguy, and T-bone

Budd, you cry about attacks against you.  Try to live by your own words
ok?  It's a discussion.  Two-way.  Not just your way.
 
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