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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / February 2007carb needed for 73
I need a holley carb for a 73 with a 360 engine. If you have a known good one you want to part with, email me. Thanks >I need a holley carb for a 73 with a 360 engine. > > If you have a known good one you want to part with, email me. > Thanks Why not rebuild your old one? Budd  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Perhaps because after 33 years, it is just worn out and no longer rebuildable. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > >I need a holley carb for a 73 with a 360 engine. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Budd >Perhaps because after 33 years, it is just worn out and no longer >rebuildable. There is not much on a old carb that cannot be rebuilt. (that is the beauty of one) I have even had a few rebushed where throttle shaft passed through them to restore a old carb to like new condition. Not really much else that wears out otherwise that cannot be easily replaced and it takes a LOT of use to wear out throttle shaft bores. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com > >Perhaps because after 33 years, it is just worn out and no longer > >rebuildable. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan Th OP is advised to scrutinize the throttle-shaft sideplay on any rebuilt/rebuildable carburetor before installing it. At the least, it could be a nuisance in terms of idle speed that isn't always the same when the butterfly valves close. At the most, it could cause the engine to not pass a smog test (if required). On some carbs, the baseplate that contains the butterflies is a replaceable part. Bryan >>Perhaps because after 33 years, it is just worn out and no longer >>rebuildable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > really much else that wears out otherwise that cannot be easily > replaced and it takes a LOT of use to wear out throttle shaft bores. Answer me this. How the f.ck do you reconcile this answer which is to rebuild the carb. Which may require a bit more than rudimentary ability. To the answer you gave in another thread which was trade the truck rather than the R&R of a speed sensor which would solve the problem. A repair that most anybody can accomplish. You truly are a a.shole. Oh, Roy!!!!!!!! Just replace the knock sensor on your v10 and put some 5.56 gears in it...heck go to 10.5:1 gears then you could pull a freight train with your gasser. don't forget to put the axle lube on the frame before you plow with the rig too. <BIG GRIN> Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. > Oh, Roy!!!!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > <BIG GRIN> This fool and his nonsense just seems to have a knack to piss me off. The op's husband is in the sand box. She undoubtedly has a bunch on her mind and this fool tells her to trade her truck rather than have a inexpensive repair done.. > ---------------------------- > -Chris > 05 CTD > 06 Liberty CRD > > Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. >> Oh, Roy!!!!!!!! >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and this fool tells her to trade her truck rather than have a inexpensive > repair done.. i know thats one of my failings too. usually i try to stay out of the arguments but somehow he just gets under my skin with the answers he posts. and to the OP. tell your hubby we aprishiate all he is doing and has done. Signature---------------------------- -Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD Real Trucks don't NEED spark plugs. >>> Oh, Roy!!!!!!!! >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > arguments but somehow he just gets under my skin with the answers he > posts. As we all know, this is what he does. Some of his stuff is so wrong it is dangerous. I'm real glad that this group has shown to have no tolerence for his crap. Other groups are much more welcoming to his BS. Maybe that is why he rarely shows up here. > and to the OP. tell your hubby we aprishiate all he is doing and has done. Ditto! Hope some smart decisions are made and we get our folks out of that shooting gallery soon. Roy >Answer me this. How the f.ck do you reconcile this answer which is to >rebuild the carb. Which may require a bit more than rudimentary ability. To >the answer you gave in another thread which was trade the truck rather than >the R&R of a speed sensor which would solve the problem. A repair that most >anybody can accomplish. You are such a child Roy and I am not the olny one that see it though others may not speak up about it. I sure how that all this makes you feel better about yourself so it is not all wasted energy. Any machine shop can easily rebush thottle shaft if they are a true machine shop. Given the price of a new carb and that fact that they can be rebuilt easily otherwise (it is not rocket science even though it may escape you) it makes economic sense to rebuilt and rebush old carb if need be rather than buy a new one or get a junk yard one that likely needs reworking too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com >>Answer me this. How the f.ck do you reconcile this answer which is to >>rebuild the carb. Which may require a bit more than rudimentary ability. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You are such a child Roy and I am not the olny one that see it though > others may not speak up about it. People here not speak up???????? Your nuts!! I sure how that all this makes you > feel better about yourself so it is not all wasted energy. I feel wonderful! > Any machine shop can easily rebush thottle shaft if they are a true > machine shop. Given the price of a new carb and that fact that they > can be rebuilt easily otherwise (it is not rocket science even though > it may escape you) it makes economic sense to rebuilt and rebush old > carb if need be rather than buy a new one or get a junk yard one that > likely needs reworking too. Following that logic that it is cheaper to rebuild rather than buy new. Then again how can you advise a person to trade in a truck rather than replace a speed sensor? Which now that I think about it is cheaper than the carb rebuild. Certainly less labor intensive. You continue to be truly a a.shole! People here not speak up???????? Your nuts!! Well, Roy, you know, there have been a few times where you have posted a few things that I really didn't like and found offensive, so I K/F'd you but was afraid to tell you. <VBG> Funny, I am found to be offensive and get K/F'd yet there are times, you, theguy and Tbone are just as bad if not worse and everyone loves you guys. Oh well, such is life, maybe I should just start spouting off about religion or other things I know little to nothing about, like a knock sensor on the V-10. > People here not speak up???????? Your nuts!! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you, theguy and Tbone are just as bad if not worse and everyone loves > you guys. <sputter..> I don't love that fat a.s. Hell, I lost so many bets this fall that it's gonna take two paychecks to feed his fat a.s.... <BG> Denny Oh well, such is life, maybe I should just start spouting > off about religion or other things I know little to nothing about, > like a knock sensor on the V-10. >> People here not speak up???????? Your nuts!! >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > <BG> Two pay checks at the White Castle??? Don't threaten me like that. <BFG> Roy > Denny > > Oh well, such is life, maybe I should just start spouting >> off about religion or other things I know little to nothing about, >> like a knock sensor on the V-10. > People here not speak up???????? Your nuts!! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Funny, I am found to be offensive and get K/F'd yet there are times, > you, theguy and Tbone are just as bad if not worse You are crass, while I on the other hand am quite articulate. Kill files are for pussies anyway. Ya, I know I used on once because it was just too bizzare. > and everyone loves > you I'm just a lovable fella who speaks the truth as I see it. <GBFG> >guys. Oh well, such is life, maybe I should just start spouting > off about religion or other things I know little to nothing about, > like a knock sensor on the V-10. > You are crass, while I on the other hand am quite articulate. Kill files are > for pussies anyway. Ya, I know I used on once because it was just too > bizzare. Roy, you have offended me with your offensive statements you are out of line and I am going to kill file you now! I am right because Buddism says so! >> You are crass, while I on the other hand am quite articulate. Kill files >> are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of line and I am going to kill file you now! I am right because > Buddism says so! No you are WRONG!! Buddism say's that I'm always right and anything you say is and will continue to be wrong.<BFG> > > Roy, you have offended me with your offensive statements you are out > > of line and I am going to kill file you now! I am right because > > Buddism says so!No you are WRONG!! Buddism say's that I'm always right and anything you say > is and will continue to be wrong.<BFG> No YOU are WRONG, I am not and if I have to, I will beat you with a bible, a cross and anything else I have to, in order to prove it to you. >> > Roy, you have offended me with your offensive statements you are out >> > of line and I am going to kill file you now! I am right because [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bible, a cross and anything else I have to, in order to prove it to > you. Are ya ready for trump?? I am Buddism you are, do ya remember? BEER!!! So ya can take all yer objects and stick'em Mr Crass, 'cause YOU are WRONG! <GBMFG> > Are ya ready for trump?? I am Buddism you are, do ya remember? BEER!!! So ya > can take all yer objects and stick'em Mr Crass, 'cause YOU are WRONG! > <GBMFG> Mr. Crass huh? FINE! I shall pray to the God of Beer, Anheuser-Busch, that you shall be cut off for the rest of eternity!!! Take that. <GBTSFG> >> Are ya ready for trump?? I am Buddism you are, do ya remember? BEER!!! So >> ya [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that you shall be cut off for the rest of eternity!!! > Take that. <GBTSFG> Do ya pray while cheering on Tom? >>> Are ya ready for trump?? I am Buddism you are, do ya remember? BEER!!! >>> So ya [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do ya pray while cheering on Tom? Now that is just gross man! There is plenty that can go wrong that is not worth rebuilding but the most likely one is a crack. It could be badly corroded from lack of use or completely plugged with old gas residue. There is plenty of things that can happen to a 33 year old device to turn it into junk. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > >Perhaps because after 33 years, it is just worn out and no longer [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com My favorite is stuck check balls in blind holes...fun fun...new carb time if it's too much fun... > There is plenty that can go wrong that is not worth rebuilding but the > most [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> ----------------- >> TheSnoMan.com I'd vote for plugged emulsion tubes as being the worst problem. Bryan > My favorite is stuck check balls in blind holes...fun fun...new carb time > if it's too much fun... [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >> ----------------- > >> TheSnoMan.com Really? I just rebuilt a Carter carb off a 72 Dodge 318 a few weeks ago, even used it to help my son learn how since it was the one that's been on that old D-150 for something like 300,000 miles and previous 95,000 on the old 72 Dart it came off of, and ya know what, there wasn't enough wear on that Carter to shake a fist at, it just needed cleaned and kitted. Once again, you are wrong. If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten thousand could be repaired, or . . . . . . And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. Budd > Perhaps because after 33 years, it is just worn out and no longer > rebuildable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Really? Yea, really. > I just rebuilt a Carter carb off a 72 Dodge 318 a few weeks ago, even used > it to help my son learn how since it was the one that's been on that old > D-150 for something like 300,000 miles and previous 95,000 on the old 72 > Dart it came off of, and ya know what, there wasn't enough wear on that > Carter to shake a fist at, it just needed cleaned and kitted. Good for you but that doesn't mean in any possible way that they are all like that. > Once again, you are wrong. No Budd, you are just being childish. I may be wrong about this one but I doubt it as the OP asked for another one to rebuild. Just maybe the OP's is actually damaged and either not rebuilable or so far gone it is not worth rebuilding. > If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, > just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten thousand > could be repaired, or . . . . . . I see a lot of maybes here Budd. The simple fact is that the carb may just be shot as they were not designed to last forever and if subjected to harsh conditions with minimal or no care at all, will become useless over time. > And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. Which means they are more subject to cracking. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> Really? > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Good for you but that doesn't mean in any possible way that they are all > like that. Did I say they were? No, I just asked if there was a reason for not rebuilding the old one. A good mechanic gathers as much info as possible before diagnosis, kinda like a doctor. >> Once again, you are wrong. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actually damaged and either not rebuilable or so far gone it is not worth > rebuilding. > > "jimandkathiekrise" <thekrises@valornet.com> wrote in message news:84cb9$45bbd29e$451e9895$8384@ALLTEL.NET... I need a holley carb for a 73 with a 360 engine. If you have a known good one you want to part with, email me. Thanks" Now, just where the heck did you find that information in a post that says nothing about it? >> If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, >> just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > harsh > conditions with minimal or no care at all, will become useless over time. Kinda like you? My point was that without INFORMATION you can not make an accurate diagnosis. Since the OP didn't give mileage on the engine, condition of the carb, etc., the logical thing to do is ask, not assume. >> And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. > > Which means they are more subject to cracking. That's why Holley reccommended the carb gasket with the spacers built into the bolt/stud holes. If you don't have one, torque 1/4" fasteners to 15 in/lb and 5/16" to 23 in/lb. Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >> Really? > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > rebuilding the old one. A good mechanic gathers as much info as possible > before diagnosis, kinda like a doctor. And I gave you a possible reason. Unless the OP is about 5 years old or has no knowledge of automobiles and no mechanical skills (which I doubt if he is here asking for the carb), he should know that they can be rebuilt (if he can still find a kit for a 33 year old carb). The fact that he is asking on-line for another one shows that rebuilding his is probably not a practical option for any number of reasons. > >> Once again, you are wrong. > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Now, just where the heck did you find that information in a post that says > nothing about it? He is asking for a known good one, IOW, one that is either functional or rebuildable which indicates that his is either too far gone, he can't find a rebuild kit, or the carb for that engine is gone. > >> If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, > >> just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kinda like you? Yea Budd, that Christian light of yours is burning as brightly as always. Buddism at its best, LOL! > My point was that without INFORMATION you can not make an > accurate diagnosis. Since the OP didn't give mileage on the engine, > condition of the carb, etc., the logical thing to do is ask, not assume. Who is trying to make any diagnosis here? I am not trying to determine what is wrong with his carb (if he even still has it), but some assumptions can be made and if his carb was in good condition, I doubt that he would be here asking for another one (unless he is a collector of them, LOL). The fact is Budd that he should know that they can be rebuild and if he is asking for another known good one, he is choosing not to for whatever reason and with a 33 year old unit..... It could be as simple as he has never done one before and doesn't want to waste the time and money attempting it for the first time on that relic that may be showing obvious wear and corrosion. > >> And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the bolt/stud holes. If you don't have one, torque 1/4" fasteners to 15 > in/lb and 5/16" to 23 in/lb. What Holly recommended 33 years ago and what happened to is since are not always the same thing. Did you do some studying on those electrical circuits and Ohm's Laws yet? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> >> Really? >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > on-line for another one shows that rebuilding his is probably not a > practical option for any number of reasons. Gawd, you make an awful lot of ASSUMPTIONS about people and things. Me, I ask questions instead. Btw, carb kits ARE still available. >> >> Once again, you are wrong. >> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > a > rebuild kit, or the carb for that engine is gone. One wild GUESS after another . . . wouldn't it be SMARTER on your part to ask questions and not GUESS??? >> >> If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, >> >> just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Yea Budd, that Christian light of yours is burning as brightly as always. > Buddism at its best, LOL! Are you bringing religion into the thread? HEY, EVERYONE!!! T-BONE'S BRINGING RELIGION INTO THE THREAD. >> My point was that without INFORMATION you can not make an >> accurate diagnosis. Since the OP didn't give mileage on the engine, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > and doesn't want to waste the time and money attempting it for the first > time on that relic that may be showing obvious wear and corrosion. And even more reason to ask and not make asssumptions, Tom. Maybe he wants to learn to rebuild carbs, maybe not. You CANNOT know for sure unless you ask. Maybe it is beyond repair, maybe not, but don't guess, ask. Btw, how many BRAND NEW carbs ( Holley or Carter) do you GUESS are being made for that vehicle today? Any carb he gets is probably going to be 30+ years old. >> >> And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What Holly recommended 33 years ago and what happened to is since are not > always the same thing. The gaskets are still available at Parts Plus, NAPA, and most other auto stores. > Did you do some studying on those electrical > circuits and Ohm's Laws yet? Yep. You? Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > >> >> Really? > >> > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Gawd, you make an awful lot of ASSUMPTIONS about people and things. Assumptions are always made Budd as our language is not perfect. As for this case, if his carb was in rebuilable condition and he knew how to do it and the kits are available to him, why would he ask complete strangers to sell him another one that may turn out to be worse than the one he already has? > Me, I ask questions instead. LOL, you might ask questions but the problem with you is that once you come up with an answer, it is the word of God, even when you are wrong and proven so. > Btw, carb kits ARE still available. Then it sounds more like a dead or missing unit. > >> >> Once again, you are wrong. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > One wild GUESS after another . . . wouldn't it be SMARTER on your part to > ask questions and not GUESS??? Nope because it doesn't matter. He did not ask for an opinion and even if he did, my response was not to him anyway. > >> >> If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, > >> >> just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Are you bringing religion into the thread? HEY, EVERYONE!!! T-BONE'S > BRINGING RELIGION INTO THE THREAD. Actually Budd, I'm not. I am however, bringing your actions into it and how what you say is seldom what you do. > >> My point was that without INFORMATION you can not make an > >> accurate diagnosis. Since the OP didn't give mileage on the engine, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > to learn to rebuild carbs, maybe not. You CANNOT know for sure unless you > ask. The point is Budd is that he didn't ask for an opinion or a diagnosis and my response was not to him. > Maybe it is beyond repair, maybe not, but don't guess, ask. Why should I? He did not ask for my opinion. > Btw, how many BRAND NEW carbs ( Holley or Carter) do you GUESS are being > made for that vehicle today? Any carb he gets is probably going to be 30+ > years old. There are still after market carbs available as well as rebuilds of the factory models and as you say, being 30+ years old, they are getting harder to locate. > >> >> And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The gaskets are still available at Parts Plus, NAPA, and most other auto > stores. What does that have to do with anything? Just because they are available doesn't mean that the owner or multiple owners used them and cracking can come from other means than improper mounting. > > Did you do some studying on those electrical > > circuits and Ohm's Laws yet? > > Yep. You? I don't have to as I already am proficient there. Did you learn that increasing resistance does not increase current flow? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> >> >> Really? >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Assumptions are always made Budd as our language is not perfect. Our language is fine, it's those that misuse it that have trouble. > As for > this case, if his carb was in rebuilable condition and he knew how to do > it > and the kits are available to him, why would he ask complete strangers to > sell him another one that may turn out to be worse than the one he already > has? And what did it hurt to ask him why couldn't it be rebuilt? If he had answered, knowledge, facts, truth would have been gained and wild guessing eliminated. >> Me, I ask questions instead. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > proven > so. MORE RELIGIOUS CONTENT FROM T-BONE, PEOPLE. >> Btw, carb kits ARE still available. > > Then it sounds more like a dead or missing unit. How do you know? You didn't know the kits were still available. >> >> >> Once again, you are wrong. >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Nope because it doesn't matter. I didn't think you'd be interested in asking questions . . . > He did not ask for an opinion and even if > he did, my response was not to him anyway. Obviously you intent was to start an argument and try to drag religious content into it. >> >> >> If one carb doesn't require replacement, maybe, >> >> >> just maybe, another one would not require it either. Or mayby ten [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > how > what you say is seldom what you do. Wrong again. >> >> My point was that without INFORMATION you can not make an >> >> accurate diagnosis. Since the OP didn't give mileage on the engine, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > my > response was not to him. No, it was another attempt to start an argument, as per your normal inclinations. >> Maybe it is beyond repair, maybe not, but don't guess, ask. > > Why should I? He did not ask for my opinion. Nor did he ask for mine, but I did try to find out his exact needs, unlike you. >> Btw, how many BRAND NEW carbs ( Holley or Carter) do you GUESS are being >> made for that vehicle today? Any carb he gets is probably going to be 30+ [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > harder > to locate. <LOL> Aftermarket 4 barrels, not two barrel carbs. All two barrel carbs are rebuilds or remanufactrured (repaired to OEM specs). >> >> >> And Holleys have harder aluminum in their carbs than Carter does. >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > doesn't mean that the owner or multiple owners used them and cracking can > come from other means than improper mounting. Really? The only method I can think of is a wreck or using a hammer to "adjust" them. > Did you do some studying on those electrical > circuits and Ohm's Laws yet? Yep. You? > I don't have to as I already am proficient there. Did you learn that > increasing resistance does not increase current flow? Bragging again, mr supermechanic? Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> LOL, you might ask questions but the problem with you is that once you >> come [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > MORE RELIGIOUS CONTENT FROM T-BONE, PEOPLE. Huge difference between you and him Budd, (I am sure I am k/f'd by you as I am by Stormin Moron, because I am offensive) Tom is using the word God in part as an expresive statement, you on the other hand RAM it down everyone's throat. If you want to play PKB, at least do it in the correct context. No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. In the past, I've done nothing more than he has done in this thread and been ripped for it, time and time again. Add to that that I've been "WARNED" by him and others about religious content in my threads and what will happen if I do. Judge me by the same rules you use for others, if you dare. Budd >>> LOL, you might ask questions but the problem with you is that once you >>> come [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > If you want to play PKB, at least do it in the correct context. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. > > In the past, I've done nothing more than he has done in this thread and > been ripped for it, time and time again. That is laughable, but that WAS THEN this is now. > Add to that that I've been "WARNED" by him and others about religious > content in my threads and what will happen if I do. > > Judge me by the same rules you use for others, if you dare. That seem's only fair to me. Roy > Budd > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >> If you want to play PKB, at least do it in the correct context. >> No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. >> >> In the past, I've done nothing more than he has done in this thread and >> been ripped for it, time and time again. > > That is laughable, but that WAS THEN this is now. So you change the rules? Figures. >> Add to that that I've been "WARNED" by him and others about religious >> content in my threads and what will happen if I do. >> >> Judge me by the same rules you use for others, if you dare. > > That seem's only fair to me. But it won't happen Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So you change the rules? Figures. I give up. >>> Add to that that I've been "WARNED" by him and others about religious >>> content in my threads and what will happen if I do. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > But it won't happen Given your attitude you are probably correct. > Given your attitude you are probably correct. No, that would be YOUR attitude that will make it true. Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Given your attitude you are probably correct. >> > No, that would be YOUR attitude that will make it true. Yup, that about say's it. If it isn't me it would be sombody else. But we know who it wouldn't be and that is YOU. Because your attitude is just wonderful. Now for a reality check, I could care less what ya do or say. In most of your post's somebody is WRONG or has done something WRONG or done something to offend you. Reading what you write one can about see the anger dripping off your words. Gotta be a sad situation to go through life with that much anger and turmoil. But then again you really seem to enjoy it. But I suppose you get out of life what you put into it, so I guess you have pretty much balanced out. >>> Given your attitude you are probably correct. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >you get out of life what you put into it, so I guess you have pretty much >balanced out. When your pecker stops working, what else is there to do? beekeep > No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. > > In the past, I've done nothing more than he has done in this thread and been > ripped for it, time and time again. That is incorrect Budd. You bring up scripture from the Bible and then tell us what to believe and that if we don't all follow your lead than we are wrong. There was none of that here. All I did was show your actions and how they don't conform to what you say you believe in. If you can't even follow what you say, how could you expect anyone else to take you seriously and this is in all things, not just religion. > Add to that that I've been "WARNED" by him and others about religious > content in my threads and what will happen if I do. Now it sounds like you were threatened and that is a load of crap. All I and others said that if you wish to force your religious beliefs on others, even after being ASKED not to, then expect probable negative reactions to it. > Judge me by the same rules you use for others, if you dare. Agreed. > Budd SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > seriously > and this is in all things, not just religion. As Yogi Berra said, "Deja vue all over again." You were just as wrong then as you are now. >> Add to that that I've been "WARNED" by him and others about religious >> content in my threads and what will happen if I do. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Agreed. Nope, you wont. You've already failed to do so. Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > No, Larry, you're not K/F'd. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing more then that is the past and I have never said anything to you about it. There is a huge difference for some one to make a statement such as "Oh God, not again" and a statement such as "You're beliefs are wrong, there for you are going to burn in hell" Had he said something like the later, I would have said the same to him as has been said to you. No more, no less, you I doubt, no correction, I know you will not believe that. > Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super > natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing > more then that is the past and I have never said anything to you about > it. There is a huge difference for some one to make a statement such > as "Oh God, not again" and a statement such as "You're beliefs are > wrong, there for you are going to burn in hell" As long as you continue to blame me for what is different between faiths, then this will all continue for all I did was state what the Bible says or what is the difference between denominations that make some Christian, some Christian pretenders and some outright cults. If you don't like it then it's your problem. Take it up with God. I don't want to hear it. > Had he said something like the later, I would have said the same to > him as has been said to you. No more, no less, you I doubt, no > correction, I know you will not believe that. From what you have called me, from how you REFUSED to accept my side ( and probably still refuse it) what the heck do you expect me to believe out of you? Take some responsibility yourself, Larry. Cya. Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super >> natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > what is the difference between denominations that make some Christian, > some Christian pretenders and some outright cults. Budd, what on earth are you talking about? Where did I, or anyone for that matter, blame you for differences between faiths. That is just such an assinine statement to make. Quite contratry to that, we have ALL been trying to get you to admit to that fact and to accept it yourself. Knock yourself silly with your statements about what the bible says, or about what your feelings are between demoninations. BUT you MUST understand, like it or not, that those are YOURS and YOURS alone. I (we) do not and will not feel the same as you and you can not make me (us). If you would just accept that, and respect everyones feelings when we have asked you to stop forcing it on us, the world would be happy once again. > If you don't like it then it's your problem. Take it up with God. I don't > want to hear it. Blah Blah Blah, I have taken it up with him and he said you are out there. :) >> Had he said something like the later, I would have said the same to >> him as has been said to you. No more, no less, you I doubt, no [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cya. I never refused to accept your side of any story. I read ALL your posts REPEATEDLY! I tried to reason with you, FAILURE. I tried emailing you, FAILURE. I tried arguing with you, FAILURE. So, please, tell me again how I am the one that is wrong? All I EVER asked you to do is to stop trying to "convert" me to your way of thinking about religion. No more, no less. I didn't then, don't now and never will think, feel or believe about religion as you. That is why, you are you and I am me. Accept it Budd, people are f.cking different! Period, end of discussion, you can't change that. Aloha!! >>> Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super >>> natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > an assinine statement to make. Quite contratry to that, we have ALL been > trying to get you to admit to that fact and to accept it yourself. And the point is that you didn't need to. In my experience, I have found most Mormons, like Stormin, for example, have never been told they do not worship the same Jesus as the one in the Bible. It's a denomination that tells lies to convert people. How is that good? I have found that most Catholics believe they HAVE to pray thru the "Holy Chain of Command" to get an answer (not supported by Scripture, btw), most Pentecostals think pspeaking in tongues is a requirement of salvation amd they can be taught how to do it (also not supported by scripture). Answer this: would you, not anyone else, you rather know what is changed in your denomination from what the earliest Christians believed? or doesn't it matter if your farther from Him than you should be because a man tells you to do it "this way" or to believe something no in the Bible as being scripture? > Knock yourself silly with your statements about what the bible says, or > about what your feelings are between demoninations. BUT you MUST > understand, like it or not, that those are YOURS and YOURS alone. I (we) > do not and will not feel the same as you and you can not make me (us). If > you would just accept that, and respect everyones feelings when we have > asked you to stop forcing it on us, the world would be happy once again. How is telling you (they) what is different, what has been changed by fallible men, in a denomination so wrong? It helps you (they) to understand why there are so many denominations, and maybe, would encourage them to look more closely at what the Bible does teach. >> If you don't like it then it's your problem. Take it up with God. I don't >> want to hear it. > > Blah Blah Blah, I have taken it up with him and he said you are out > there. :) You must have been speaking to one of the Mormon gods that happen to be in the area. >>> Had he said something like the later, I would have said the same to >>> him as has been said to you. No more, no less, you I doubt, no [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Aloha!! (Caps for emphasis only) What is it called when I tell you EXACTLY what I was trying to do, that is, TELL YOU OR ANOTHER PERSON WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT SOMETHING CONCERING YOUR BELIEFS SO THAT YOU WILL KNOW and you refuse to accept MY EXPLANATION ABOUT IT as truth? What is it called when SOMEONE CARES ENOUGH ABOUT A PAST RELATIONSHIP THAT HE DOES ALL HE CAN TO CORRECT THE MISUNDERSTANDING? Why do you think I've tolerated the verbal abuse from a one time friend? As for people being different, why am I catching all this flack for being who I am? Wouldn't a friend try to help friends be closer to their God? Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super >>>> natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Pentecostals think pspeaking in tongues is a requirement of salvation amd >they can be taught how to do it (also not supported by scripture). yeah..........well. no bigotry or hatred here, no condemnation of the rights of others to worship thier religion (weren't we all just accused of violating dudd's rights to worship his religion?) as they see fit.................... and that doesn't even begin to discuss the accuracy of the statements above and below, or for that matter the general health of the author. see, i just don't argue with dudd. he really is a moron. i don't say that to hurt his feelings nor to upset him. i just say that as a matter of fact. dudd is a complete moron. >Answer this: would you, not anyone else, you rather know what is changed in >your denomination from what the earliest Christians believed? or doesn't it [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > >Budd >>>>> Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super >>>>> natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > that to hurt his feelings nor to upset him. i just say that as a > matter of fact. dudd is a complete moron. Agreed >>>> Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super >>>> natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > And the point is that you didn't need to. I didn't need to, what? > In my experience, I have found most Mormons, like Stormin, for example, > have never been told they do not worship the same Jesus as the one in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > salvation amd they can be taught how to do it (also not supported by > scripture). Point in case once again Budd, this is based of YOUR experience. What you fail to see is that just because it is based off YOUR experience DOES NOT make it correct! You are not a teacher, a minister, a preist, a bishop, a pope, none, so it is not your job, or responsibility, to as you say "teach" others of anything. If you knew anything about the Catholic religion, as you claim to you would know that your statement is incorrect (once again) > Answer this: would you, not anyone else, you rather know what is changed > in your denomination from what the earliest Christians believed? or > doesn't it matter if your farther from Him than you should be because a > man tells you to do it "this way" or to believe something no in the Bible > as being scripture? No Budd, I would not! However, if I did have an interest in that knowledge, I would not seek it from someone that is not in the position to provide me correct, truthful un-biased information. That is something that you are incapable of doing. The rest of your statements above make no sense. >> Knock yourself silly with your statements about what the bible says, or >> about what your feelings are between demoninations. BUT you MUST [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > You must have been speaking to one of the Mormon gods that happen to be in > the area. Oh so here we go again slamming on another religion. Very respectful of you. FYI, I would never step foot in a Mormon house of worship, let alone discuss religion with them. Why? Simple, because I do not agree with the teachings of that sect, it goes against what I believe to be true and as a man it is easier and smarter to avoid the confrontation that I know will become. >>>> Had he said something like the later, I would have said the same to >>>> him as has been said to you. No more, no less, you I doubt, no [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > CONCERING YOUR BELIEFS SO THAT YOU WILL KNOW and you refuse to accept MY > EXPLANATION ABOUT IT as truth? What is it that you still refuse to understand Budd? No one f.cking cares about YOUR interruptation of what the Bible say or about YOUR beliefs as how they "effect" some one elses form of religion and worship. You want to make a difference, learn to understand that you can not and will not sway someone in their beliefs by brow beating them daily. All you will to is EXACTLY what you have done, turn them away from you. You want to be a "teacher" become a priest or minister and do so in a setting where it is more likely to be received and to people who want to learn from you. I do not wnat nor care to learn. As to the truth aspect, it is truth to YOU many have stated, and will continue to do so, that they DISAGREE. Why do you refuse to accept that? > What is it called when SOMEONE CARES ENOUGH ABOUT A PAST RELATIONSHIP THAT > HE DOES ALL HE CAN TO CORRECT THE MISUNDERSTANDING? Why do you think I've > tolerated the verbal abuse from a one time friend? Who knows? Maybe because you actually see that in some instances you are wrong, that some of the actions you have taken are wrong, maybe because you have finally accepted the fact that no matter what you say or do, you will not sway me to your religious beliefs. > As for people being different, why am I catching all this flack for being > who I am? Wouldn't a friend try to help friends be closer to their God? You need to read all the posts to you again Budd, you are not catching flak for being "WHO" you are. You are catching flak for the reasons that you want to continue to make yourself a martyr and to FORCE what you feel and believe to be correct, right, just and holy down the throats of peeople, friends, enemies or otherwise, that DO NOT want it, that DO NOT accept it, that REFUSE it. People are free Budd, remember you are the one that has thrown up numerous times the Freedoms of men? Why does that freedom apply to you but not others? A friend would help a friend with anything, no matter what. HOWEVER!!! when it is expressed by one to the other that they are not interested, that they don't want it, ect.. A FRIEND would STOP! > Budd >>>>> Budd, I can not judge anyone as I do not hold the natural or super >>>>> natural abilities to do so. However, I know you have done nothing [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I didn't need to, what? Correct me, it's not YOUR place to. >> In my experience, I have found most Mormons, like Stormin, for example, >> have never been told they do not worship the same Jesus as the one in the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > religion, as you claim to you would know that your statement is incorrect > (once again) Who didn't know that the wafer and wine are converted to the body and blood of Christ? The most important sacrament of the Catholic church? How do you know it's not my job? You, most certainly, are not my god and and I don't obey you or any other mortal in spiritual matters. >> Answer this: would you, not anyone else, you rather know what is changed >> in your denomination from what the earliest Christians believed? or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that you are incapable of doing. The rest of your statements above make > no sense. So you'd go to those that have not told you the truth and ask them for answers? "If the blind lead the blind . . ." >>> Knock yourself silly with your statements about what the bible says, or >>> about what your feelings are between demoninations. BUT you MUST [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > man it is easier and smarter to avoid the confrontation that I know will > become. "There is no better way for evil to grow than for good people to do nothing". You do not fight them, I do. Why? Because that denomination sent my sister to Hell with their lies. I don't hate the people in theMormon church, I hate the lies they spread. >>>>> Had he said something like the later, I would have said the same to >>>>> him as has been said to you. No more, no less, you I doubt, no [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > many have stated, and will continue to do so, that they DISAGREE. Why do > you refuse to accept that? Truth is an absolute. There are no "shades", "levels" or "truth for one is not the truth for another". That's where you screw up. As long as you allow liberal crap to pass for "truth" you will never understand God's Word as it is written. >> What is it called when SOMEONE CARES ENOUGH ABOUT A PAST RELATIONSHIP >> THAT HE DOES ALL HE CAN TO CORRECT THE MISUNDERSTANDING? Why do you think [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you have finally accepted the fact that no matter what you say or do, you > will not sway me to your religious beliefs. So, even when I try to care, I'm in the wrong . . . .and you can't see how sick that is. >> As for people being different, why am I catching all this flack for being >> who I am? Wouldn't a friend try to help friends be closer to their God? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > that has thrown up numerous times the Freedoms of men? Why does that > freedom apply to you but not others? I am whom I am, I am going to do what I believe God wants me to do. If that is what you say I am doing wrong, then you are wrong, not me. It matters not if anyone refuses what I write, God's message will be preached, will be taught, and will always be truth. God said it, it doesn't matter one bit if you believe it, or accept it, afterall, as you say, it is your decision. > A friend would help a friend with anything, no matter what. HOWEVER!!! > when it is expressed by one to the other that they are not interested, > that they don't want it, ect.. A FRIEND would STOP! And it was you that asked me about the religion and I answered you, Larry. Then you jumped my backside for telling you how Catholic Church is different today from the church established by the Disciples ( No, contrary to what many are taught, Jesus DID NOT start Christian churches) Ok, as far as you are concerned, I am stopping. I can see that you are rejecting me as I am today. So be it. I wash my hands of you, one time friend. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> And the point is that you didn't need to. >> >> I didn't need to, what? > > Correct me, it's not YOUR place to. If it is not my place to correct you, then why the hell do you think it is your place to correct anyone else that you believe to be wrong? If it I can not correct you for being wrong as I see based off my knowledge and beliefs, then you can not either. > Who didn't know that the wafer and wine are converted to the body and > blood of Christ? The most important sacrament of the Catholic church? Not I, but based off your assumption you believe I didn't. They are symbols of Him, and I stated that. > How do you know it's not my job? You, most certainly, are not my god and > and I don't obey you or any other mortal in spiritual matters. Because you are not a teacher, a priest, a minister, anything. You are someone that has taken the writings of the Holy Book and twisted them to fit your lifestyle and such. None of this says you are to brow beat anyone as you CONTINUE to do. I will tell you this, at least when it pertains to me, YOU ARE NOT MY SPIRITUAL ANYTHING. > So you'd go to those that have not told you the truth and ask them for > answers? "If the blind lead the blind . . ." No stupid, as I have stated many many times, I am my own person and I DO NOT follw ANY form of organized religion. I do not speak to people about my religious convictions, and I worship in manners that befit me and only me as that is the way it really should be. But if I did, it damn sure as hell would not be your twisted version of Christianity. > Truth is an absolute. There are no "shades", "levels" or "truth for one is > not the truth for another". That's where you screw up. I haven't scewed up anywhere, you have Budd, you take EVERYTING and twist it. > As long as you allow liberal crap to pass for "truth" you will never > understand God's Word as it is written. I understand a lot more then think dumbass, but you are to warpped in the head to understand anything other then what you want. > So, even when I try to care, I'm in the wrong . . . .and you can't see how > sick that is. Care all you want Budd, but let me state this again! I DO NOT WANT YOU TO TRY AND TEACH ME, PREACH TO ME, EDUCATE ME, LEAD ME, CONVERT ME, TO ANYTHING WHEN IT COMES TO RELIGION!!! Becuase you REFSUE TO understand that I DO NOT WANT IT FROM YOU, YES, YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! > I am whom I am, I am going to do what I believe God wants me to do. If > that is what you say I am doing wrong, then you are wrong, not me. No once again you are wrong when you CONTINUE TO force it on those who DO NOT WANT IT FROM YOU... > And it was you that asked me about the religion and I answered you, Larry. > Then you jumped my backside for telling you how Catholic Church is > different today from the church established by the Disciples ( No, > contrary to what many are taught, Jesus DID NOT start Christian churches) I never asked you about religion!! I tried to talk to you and find out why on earth you all of a sudden turned into what you have become. I NEVER approached you to seek religious education, DO NOT put words in my mouth. > Ok, as far as you are concerned, I am stopping. I can see that you are > rejecting me as I am today. So be it. > > I wash my hands of you, one time friend. Thank God for small favors. You want to be accepted for who you are, then start doing the f.cking same. Oh wait, you can't and won't. On the other hand, if she was devout LDS, she might be exalted, and get to come down from the Celestial Kingdom and visit you some day. After you are both resurrected. SignatureChristopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. . > How do you know it's not my job? You, most certainly, are not my god and and > I don't obey you or any other mortal in spiritual matters. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > my sister to Hell with their lies. I don't hate the people in theMormon > church, I hate the lies they spread. > As for people being different, why am I catching all this flack for > being who I am? Wouldn't a friend try to help friends be closer to > their God? Because friends don't try to take away the rights of friends. Freedom of religion is a fundamental human right. It's a guarantee by our government for freedom of belief. Freedom of religion includes the freedom not to follow any religion and not to believe in any God. Why don't you get this? You have the right to think you are correct, but you DO NOT have the right to tell someone else they are wrong. SignatureKen > You have the right to think you are correct, but you DO NOT have the right > to tell someone else they are wrong. Sure ya do! People tell other people they are wrong all the time, with absolutely no dilution of their basic freedom of speech rights. It would be a rather ineffective Congress if members held their tongues when they thought a fellow member held an incorrect opinion! SMH >> You have the right to think you are correct, but you DO NOT have the >> right to tell someone else they are wrong. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > held their tongues when they thought a fellow member > held an incorrect opinion! My comment was made in the context of religious choice. Congress certainly doesn't have the right to tell me what my religious beliefs should be. Neither do you. SignatureKen >>>You have the right to think you are correct, but you DO NOT have the >>>right to tell someone else they are wrong. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doesn't have the right to tell me what my religious beliefs should be. > Neither do you. Please show me where I was telling you what your religious beliefs should be. Nice strawman, but I *can* tell you you're incorrect, and your constitutional free speech rights haven't been intruded upon one iota! Sheesh! SMH > Please show me where I was telling you what your religious > beliefs should be. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sheesh! My free speech rights aren't in question. It's freedom of religion. Looking back, I see that I made a poor choice of words to explain my thought. I should have used the word "authority" instead of "right". You can tell me that you /think/ I'm incorrect but you are not in a position to tell me what /is/ correct. Your freedom of speech has no authority over my freedom of religion. Freedom of speech allows you to string together whatever words you want and blurt them out, but you still can't tell me what religious choice to make. You have the ability, but you don't have the authority. You can *tell* me what to do, but *you* can't tell *me* what to do. SignatureKen > My free speech rights aren't in question. It's freedom of religion. Looking > back, I see that I made a poor choice of words to explain my thought. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to make. You have the ability, but you don't have the authority. You can > *tell* me what to do, but *you* can't tell *me* what to do. If I were so inclined, I could *try*! And of course you'd have the right to tell me to piss off! SMH >> My free speech rights aren't in question. It's freedom of religion. >> Looking back, I see that I made a poor choice of words to explain my [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > SMH I /could/ tell you to piss off. But I won't. ;^) SignatureKen Et tu, Ken? Looks like you've decided to end the discussion. So be it. Budd >> As for people being different, why am I catching all this flack for >> being who I am? Wouldn't a friend try to help friends be closer to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You have the right to think you are correct, but you DO NOT have the right > to tell someone else they are wrong. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Et tu, Ken? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Budd Why do you say that? You asked a question on an open forum. I gave an answer. Are you ending it because you don't like what I said? SignatureKen >> Et tu, Ken? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Why do you say that? You asked a question on an open forum. I gave an > answer. Are you ending it because you don't like what I said? That is EXACTLY why he is ending it Ken. Sorry but 'tis the truth >> Et tu, Ken? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Why do you say that? You asked a question on an open forum. I gave an > answer. Are you ending it because you don't like what I said? Up till this point you had not been antagonistic and quite the gentleman. Instead of just bashing me without listening to what I was really saying, you were trying hard to understand my points of view. Or so I had believed. Was I wrong to believe that? Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> Et tu, Ken? >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Up till this point you had not been antagonistic and quite the > gentleman. I didn't bash you and I wasn't being antagonistic. If I wanted to spin you up I have a pretty good idea what buttons to push. If you must, go back and read your post that I replied to. You were going on about Mormons telling lies and Catholics and Pentecostals not following the Bible. Then you asked why people give you flack for your proselytizing. So I told you. You might not like what I said but I didn't say it to be mean to you. Do you want me to be dishonest so your feelings don't get hurt or do you want truth? > Instead of just bashing me without listening to what I was really > saying, you were trying hard to understand my points of view. > > Or so I had believed. > > Was I wrong to believe that? No, Budd. You weren't wrong to believe that. I still don't completely understand your points of view and I probably never will. I don't agree with you on many religious topics but I've never told you that your beliefs are wrong. Have you wondered why in all those questions I've never asked what your denomination is? It's because I didn't want my prejudice to interfere with the discussion. I wanted to know what you believe not what the denominations stand for. It doesn't matter if you are Eastern Orthodox or Pastafarian. You might prefer Biblical canons to the works of LaVey, but it doesn't matter to anyone except /you/ which one /you/ choose to believe. It's an individual choice and we all have the same right to it. Do you think it's right for someone to tell /you/ that /your/ religion is wrong? Do you think it's acceptable for you to do that to others? SignatureKen >>>> Et tu, Ken? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > you want me to be dishonest so your feelings don't get hurt or do you want > truth? Ken, As a Christian that believes the Word of God to be true and accurate, I have to be truthful also, to everyone. To lie is a sin. Mormonism is full of lies that have been disproved many time by the secular world (Book of Abraham, "revised hieroglyphics" language for just two items), Catholics have added much to Christianity which is not supported by Scripture (just a couple: Purgatory, the magical Eucharist), and in the Pentacostal denominations, one claims they can teach you to speak in tongues (a prayer language is a gift from God and personal in nature), another says you have to speak in tongues to be saved (not supported by scripture), and most don't "interpret" the tongue being babbeled according to Scripture ( "If one speaks in an unknown tongue, let one or two interpret,,, If many speak in an unknown tongue, would a stranger think you to be mad?",,, and even the Apostle Paul said, "I would rather speak five words to your understanding than ten thousand in an unknown tongue.") >> Instead of just bashing me without listening to what I was really >> saying, you were trying hard to understand my points of view. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > it. Do you think it's right for someone to tell /you/ that /your/ religion > is wrong? Do you think it's acceptable for you to do that to others? Thank you, Ken, for easing my mind. This is the crux of the matter. Nowhere did I tell anyone anything that was not found in the Bible, which is my only source for answers. Nowhere did ___I___ say to anyone they were "going to Hell" unless the Bible said they were, and I only stated what the Bible said. I am but the messenger in that respect. No, I believe the whole mess runs more deeply than that. Over the past years, I have noticed a troubling change in this group over the years where honesty, truth, civility and good, accurate answers have taken a backseat to situation I would not want a child to read. Yes, there are a few that still give excellent answers, and they are to be praised for it, but you have some that can't pour water out of a boot with directions on the heel and they should be corrected when neccessary. I believe everyone should know where their beliefs / denomination strays from the church set up by the Disciples ( Jesus did not start Christianity, He was just the Messiah) if for no other reason than to let them know where conflicts are with Biblical teachings. That is part and parcel of how the Apostles spread Christianity centuries ago (remember where Paul confronted the Jewish converts that were insisting Gentile converts be circumsized and the movement to make the "correct" day of worship to be Saturday?) No earthly denomination is perfect. I do not claim perfection either, but I am trying. And I want my friends to be there with me. Is that wrong? From my experience, my own comparisons based on what they believe and teach, the denominations closest to what the Disciples originally founded, and this is where the Mormon claim the church has apostasized fails because lineage is directly traceable, are the Evangelical Free Church (non-denominational), Calvary Chapel (non-denominational), and Southern Baptist (SBC) denominations. The last one barely makes it in the group...too many man made laws. I attend a Southern Baptist currently because of it's availablity, though, personally, I am non-Denominational. My beliefs are what is found in the Bible and with nothing added from man. My goal, if any, is to just be the same kind of Christian as would have been found in the first century before any denominations were thought of. Yes, there were some that said, " I am of Paul" or " I am of Apollos", but that only referred to who was the Apostle that brought the Word of God to them, not a denomination. However, I do think it was the "inspiration" for the later denominations. Here is what I believe: http://www.carm.org/questions/church_true.htm Budd SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > This is the crux of the matter. Nowhere did I tell anyone anything that was > not found in the Bible, which is my only source for answers. Nowhere did > ___I___ say to anyone they were "going to Hell" unless the Bible said they > were, and I only stated what the Bible said. I am but the messenger in that > respect. If it is a SIN to LIE, then why are you LYING! You have too told Miles that he is going to Hell!!!!! If you are going to PREACH it, then why the hell don't you PRATICE it!!!!!!!! > As a Christian that believes the Word of God to be true and accurate, > I have to be truthful also, to everyone. To lie is a sin. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the Apostle Paul said, "I would rather speak five words to your > understanding than ten thousand in an unknown tongue.") The scripture is written by who? God? Wasn't it was man writing the word of God? What if a man hears another message from God? It can't be written into the scripture because the scripture is closed. So if it isn't in the scripture it can't be true? Did God say that He will never speak to man again after the writing of the scripture is complete? You claim to follow the word of God but you won't believe anything less than 2,000 years old. If you doubt any man that claims to hear the word of God now why do you believe what was written so long ago? > This is the crux of the matter. Nowhere did I tell anyone anything > that was not found in the Bible, which is my only source for answers. > Nowhere did ___I___ say to anyone they were "going to Hell" unless > the Bible said they were, and I only stated what the Bible said. I am > but the messenger in that respect. You claimed that you can (only) judge non-Christians. Telling (or quoting the Bible to) a non-Christian that they are going to hell is an empty threat for the most part. The only people that will take it with any meaning is other Christians who you can't judge. Why bother bringing it up? > No, I believe the whole mess runs more deeply than that. Over the past > years, I have noticed a troubling change in this group over the years [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > insisting Gentile converts be circumsized and the movement to make > the "correct" day of worship to be Saturday?) I found the position of your most quoted reference interesting. http://www.carm.org/seek/denominations.htm > No earthly denomination is perfect. I do not claim perfection either, > but I am trying. And I want my friends to be there with me. Is that > wrong? I just deleted a long account of the denominations that I visited after joining the Navy. The more I wrote the more depressing it got. I do think you would have liked the part about the singing and dancing church. I think that really /was/ Reverend Cleophus James. > From my experience, my own comparisons based on what they believe and > teach, the denominations closest to what the Disciples originally [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > http://www.carm.org/questions/church_true.htm Do you think it bothers Mormons or Jehovah's Witness that you think the label "Christian" doesn't apply to them? SignatureKen |
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