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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / February 2007sagging leaf springs on 4x4 dodge
i have a 1974 dodge 4x4 and the springs have no crown left in them.... can this be helped by replacing the spring pads or by possibly adding extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? I would have them re-arched.  SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > i have a 1974 dodge 4x4 and the springs have no crown left in them.... > can this be helped by replacing the spring pads or by possibly adding > extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? I've never heard of this process. Please tell us more. Is it cheaper or easier than getting a pair of springs from a wrecking yard? SignatureChristopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. . : I would have them re-arched. : : > i have a 1974 dodge 4x4 and the springs have no crown left in them.... : > can this be helped by replacing the spring pads or by possibly adding : > extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? A good spring shop can do this. Not your average suspension or truck place, but one that works on Semi's, motor homes, etc. I was going to suggest the same, but TBone beat me to it. > I've never heard of this process. Please tell us more. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > possibly adding > : > extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? This is done by professional spring shops. Basically, they take the spring apart, re-bend the leafs back to what they were and in some cases, they add an additional leaf and put it back together with new pads and bushings. While it is not always cheaper, it is easier and you basically have a new spring again. When you buy from the junk yard, you don't always know what you are going to get and while they may guarantee the springs that they sell you, you still have to remove the old ones and put the junkyard ones in and if they are bad, you get to take them out again and start all over. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > I've never heard of this process. Please tell us more. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > possibly adding > : > extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? > While it is not always cheaper, it is easier and you basically have a new > spring again. Rebent isn't nearly as good as a new spring but for a vehicle where new springs can't be had it's probably better than used. >> While it is not always cheaper, it is easier and you basically have a new >> spring again. > > Rebent isn't nearly as good as a new spring but for a vehicle where new > springs can't be had it's probably better than used. That is very true. I would think that after going through the work of removing the spring's plus the cost one would be way ahead by having new springs made up. Miles, did you try the disc? > Miles, did you try the disc? Yes. Seems like my ISP has some Usenet problems lately. I enter in a destination and allow it to compute a route. Then I press the NAV button and select Route Options. One of the options listed is Avoid Road. It lists all of the roads and highways used in the route and allows me to select them to avoid. This causes it to reroute another way. I have the AE revision, part #05064033AE. Check for this Avoid Road on yours as I really thought it was present on my older 05064033AD disc. I have also heard there will be an AF revision coming out in the next few weeks. Alpine updates the roads once or twice a year. Not always worth the $200 a pop. Ebay is cheaper. >> Miles, did you try the disc? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > lists all of the roads and highways used in the route and allows me to > select them to avoid. This causes it to reroute another way. Nope, I do not have that option. > I have the AE revision, part #05064033AE. Check for this Avoid Road on > yours as I really thought it was present on my older 05064033AD disc. I have the AD disc, on mine there is not avoid option. Believe me I did everything to make it appear, but it just isn't there. > I have also heard there will be an AF revision coming out in the next few > weeks. Alpine updates the roads once or twice a year. Not always worth > the $200 a pop. Ebay is cheaper. I wonder if I bitch enough to the dealer I can get them to upgrade the disc. Hell, I've bought 7 cars/trucks from them over the years. I'll give it a shot. If not ebay is the way to go. Thanks for checking, I really appreciate it. > I wonder if I bitch enough to the dealer I can get them to upgrade the disc. > Hell, I've bought 7 cars/trucks from them over the years. I'll give it a > shot. If not ebay is the way to go. Depends on the dealer I suppose. I can always burn a disc with or without the in-motion patch. Have you ever had it done Miles or has one of your countless relatives done it? If not, then you don't know WTF you are talking about. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > While it is not always cheaper, it is easier and you basically have a new > > spring again. > > Rebent isn't nearly as good as a new spring but for a vehicle where new > springs can't be had it's probably better than used. > Have you ever had it done Miles or has one of your countless relatives done > it? If not, then you don't know WTF you are talking about. Always resort to arguing doncha?? Yes I have had it done and the results were so-so. Learn the properties of metal before inserting foot into mouth about what you do not understand. >> Have you ever had it done Miles or has one of your countless relatives >> done [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > were so-so. Learn the properties of metal before inserting foot into > mouth about what you do not understand. Ouch! <G> >>> Have you ever had it done Miles or has one of your countless relatives >>> done [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ouch! <G> I'm just having fun! Thats what its all about. >>>> Have you ever had it done Miles or has one of your countless relatives >>>> done [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'm just having fun! Thats what its all about. I know. The dealer is ordering me a new disc 'cause my old one doesn't work all the time(wink wink) Hopefully it will be the new one. If not I found a couple on ebay. Again thanks for your time on this. > The dealer is ordering me a new disc 'cause my old one doesn't work all > the time(wink wink) Hopefully it will be the new one. If not I found a > couple on ebay. Roy, Could you e-mail me? Got a question for ya. Delete all the capital letters from my indicated e-mail address. Thanks >> The dealer is ordering me a new disc 'cause my old one doesn't work all >> the time(wink wink) Hopefully it will be the new one. If not I found a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks On the way. >>> The dealer is ordering me a new disc 'cause my old one doesn't work all >>> the time(wink wink) Hopefully it will be the new one. If not I found a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > On the way. It kicked back. I'll try it again. > The dealer is ordering me a new disc 'cause my old one doesn't work all the > time(wink wink) Hopefully it will be the new one. If not I found a couple on > ebay. Didn't think about that route! It's under the 3yr/36000 mile warranty. Hopefully it will be the newer revision as thats the only one available for sale. >> The dealer is ordering me a new disc 'cause my old one doesn't work all >> the time(wink wink) Hopefully it will be the new one. If not I found a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hopefully it will be the newer revision as thats the only one available > for sale. That's my thought. If not there's ebay. I understand that burning them is a pia. Something about double sided or some such. > That's my thought. If not there's ebay. I understand that burning them is a > pia. Something about double sided or some such. Yes it requires a DVD DL (Dual Layer) disc and a burner thats capable of burning DL DVD's. I successfully burned a copy without trouble the first try. I read everyones comments about it online and just did what worked for others. I've used the disc for several months now. Works great. >> That's my thought. If not there's ebay. I understand that burning them is >> a pia. Something about double sided or some such. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > try. I read everyones comments about it online and just did what worked > for others. I've used the disc for several months now. Works great. If the dealer doesn't get the right one, I may be looking for a favor. > If the dealer doesn't get the right one, I may be looking for a favor. You might not be the only one :) >> If the dealer doesn't get the right one, I may be looking for a favor. > > You might not be the only one :) Yup, Miles may have to gear up for this.<G> > > Have you ever had it done Miles or has one of your countless relatives done > > it? If not, then you don't know WTF you are talking about. > > Always resort to arguing doncha?? And what exactly do you call all of your posts in this thread???? > Yes I have had it done and the results were so-so. Really, what vehicle?? That sounds more like you picked a so-so rebuilder. > Learn the properties of metal before inserting foot > into mouth about what you do not understand. I do understand the properties of metal Miles, despite your whining and a good spring shop will understand them as well and do what is required to bring the spring back to factory specs. Now if you know so much and think that this can't be done, then why did you have it done yourself. That sounds kinda stupid of you to me. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > And what exactly do you call all of your posts in this thread???? All one single post prior to this in this thread??? I only replied to your initiating a typical argument. > Really, what vehicle?? That sounds more like you picked a so-so rebuilder. Several 1960's and 1970's vehicles. The results were so-so but better than nothing. It does not return the spring to like new performance. No way. Your comment about which rebuilder I used is without merit. > I do understand the properties of metal Miles, despite your whining and a > good spring shop will understand them as well and do what is required to > bring the spring back to factory specs. No you most certainly do not understand the properties of metal with regards to spring, hysteresis, fatigue, residual stress and far more. > > And what exactly do you call all of your posts in this thread???? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Several 1960's and 1970's vehicles. The results were so-so but better > than nothing. As usual, no valid answer. Sorry Miles, but I simply don't believe you. > It does not return the spring to like new performance. > No way. Your comment about which rebuilder I used is without merit. Perhaps you are the one that needs to do a little research on this subject. There are two ways to have this done. Do you even know what they are? > > I do understand the properties of metal Miles, despite your whining and a > > good spring shop will understand them as well and do what is required to > > bring the spring back to factory specs. > > No you most certainly do not understand the properties of metal with > regards to spring, hysteresis, fatigue, residual stress and far more. LOL!!! Did you look up those terms in the dictionary. Please explain to us how each one applies to see if you really have any idea what you are talking about. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Sorry Miles, but I simply don't believe you. And that means exactly what? Thanks for the compliment. > Perhaps you are the one that needs to do a little research on this subject. > There are two ways to have this done. Do you even know what they are? Theres more than just two. Theres quite a few different sets of steps different shops will use. Some better than others. Where you fail is your belief that an old spring can be made just as good as a new one and deliver the same level of performance and longevity. A rebuilt spring will do neither. > Did you look up those terms in the dictionary. Hmm...with that remark its quite clear the terms I used were over your head as if they're something unusual. I've told you before where I work and what I do. Yes, I do know more about metals than you! > > Sorry Miles, but I simply don't believe you. > > And that means exactly what? Thanks for the compliment. It means that you can't ever answer even a simple question and are full of sh.t. If you want to take that as a compliment, be my guest. > > Perhaps you are the one that needs to do a little research on this subject. > > There are two ways to have this done. Do you even know what they are? > > Theres more than just two. Really, name them! > Theres quite a few different sets of steps different shops will use. Yes there are but they still become one of the two methods but if you think that there are more, name some of them. > Some better than others. Where you fail is > your belief that an old spring can be made just as good as a new one and > deliver the same level of performance and longevity. I said basically have a new spring, not have a new spring and there is a difference. If done correctly, it will be within the specs of when it was new and I never mentioned anything about longevity but if done correctly by a reputal shop, they should also last about as long as the origionals. Just slapping the spring on a press and bending it is not doing it correctly but you knew that, right???? > A rebuilt spring will do neither. Now that depends on what was wrong with it and exactly how it was rebuilt. Really Miles, you are beginning to show that you don't know anywhere near as much as you claim to. > > Did you look up those terms in the dictionary. > > Hmm...with that remark its quite clear the terms I used were over your > head as if they're something unusual. There is nothing unusual about the terms and all I asked was that you relate them to the discussion which you once again failed to do. Sadly, there is nothing unusual about that either. > I've told you before where I work > and what I do. No, actually you haven't said where you work and only hint at what you do. > Yes, I do know more about metals than you! Really???? You don't act like it and you do know that aluminum and steel have very different properties when it comes to flexing, right?????? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > It means that you can't ever answer even a simple question I answered, you whined. > Yes there are but they still become one of the two methods but if you think > that there are more, name some of them. Most do not heattreat for instance. That can make a huge difference even though you might call it a simple step. > Now that depends on what was wrong with it and exactly how it was rebuilt. Not so. Unless the spring was just sitting around without use and not subject to corrosion then there is no way it can be returned to like new condition delivering the same level of performance and longevity of a new one. By you disagreeing it's clear you have no clue! > No, actually you haven't said where you work and only hint at what you do. I gave my frigg'n website to which you whine about quite some time ago. Geez TBone, see a Dr.!! > Really???? You don't act like it and you do know that aluminum and steel > have very different properties when it comes to flexing, right?????? Gee Really? Gosh!! Did you know that metal that has been flexed for many many years gains residual stresses only some of which can be taken out through heat treating which many shops don't even bother with? You knew that right? > > It means that you can't ever answer even a simple question > > I answered, you whined. No, you didn't. I asked for what cars and you gave some crap about "many" cars from the 60's and 70's with as usual, nothing specific at all. How many cars Miles and specifically what models. > > Yes there are but they still become one of the two methods but if you think > > that there are more, name some of them. > > Most do not heattreat for instance. That can make a huge difference > even though you might call it a simple step. Once again, it depends on what method they are using and once again, no answer to the question of other types. > > Now that depends on what was wrong with it and exactly how it was rebuilt. > > Not so. Unless the spring was just sitting around without use and not > subject to corrosion then there is no way it can be returned to like new > condition delivering the same level of performance and longevity of a > new one. By you disagreeing it's clear you have no clue! LOL, and this from the one who can't answer even a simple question. If the spring is that badly corroded then it is not a candidate for either rebuilding method and only a second rate shop would work with it. > > No, actually you haven't said where you work and only hint at what you do. > > I gave my frigg'n website to which you whine about quite some time ago. > Geez TBone, see a Dr.!! Once again, no valid response. Why didn't you just post it again? The answer is because you never did, at least not to me or in this NG. > > Really???? You don't act like it and you do know that aluminum and steel > > have very different properties when it comes to flexing, right?????? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > out through heat treating which many shops don't even bother with? You > knew that right? Actually Miles, that is not completely true. Unless you bend spring steel beyond it's stress point, it takes no damage and can theoretically be flexed like that forever. And then again, if one of the leafs is damaged due to corrosion, it can be replaced. You knew that, right?!?!?!?! SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > No, you didn't. I asked for what cars and you gave some crap about "many" > cars from the 60's and 70's with as usual, nothing specific at all. How > many cars Miles and specifically what models. Oh geez TBone. What the hell difference does it make if its 3 or 10 cars or a Skylark, GTO or a Mustang (yes, those are 3 of them)? You just wanna bitch about nothing!! > Actually Miles, that is not completely true. Unless you bend spring steel > beyond it's stress point, it takes no damage and can theoretically be flexed > like that forever. Oh? So as an old spring flattens out or loses it springiness it did so without anything really happening huh? Now that right here shows your lack of understanding of basic metal properties. You're making an assumption that is clearly wrong. My company produces whats called load cells or force transducers which rely on the very predictable bending properties of metal. The companies that rebuild springs are one industry that uses them. Look it up. Yes, I do know far more than you in this area. > > No, you didn't. I asked for what cars and you gave some crap about "many" > > cars from the 60's and 70's with as usual, nothing specific at all. How [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cars or a Skylark, GTO or a Mustang (yes, those are 3 of them)? You > just wanna bitch about nothing!! The difference is that you claim to know that the procedure does not work well and then claim to have done it to several cars. That would make no sense unless replacement springs for the cars that you did it to were unavailable and that is not the case with the three you just mentioned so you are either pretty stupid or just ripping people off that you sold these cars to. > > Actually Miles, that is not completely true. Unless you bend spring steel > > beyond it's stress point, it takes no damage and can theoretically be flexed > > like that forever. > > Oh? So as an old spring flattens out or loses it springiness it did so > without anything really happening huh? I never said that. > Now that right here shows your > lack of understanding of basic metal properties. LOL, no Miles, it shows your inability to understandthe difference between a single item and an assembly. > You're making an assumption that is clearly wrong. Once again Miles, that would be you. You are under the assumption that the entire spring is defective and that is not always the case. > My company produces whats called load > cells or force transducers which rely on the very predictable bending > properties of metal. Yes and if that is true, IIRC, you also claim to work primarily in the aircraft industry where the aluminum alloys used there have very different properties than spring steel. > The companies that rebuild springs are one > industry that uses them. Look it up. Yes, I do know far more than you > in this area. Really??? Exactly what do they use them for on automotive springs? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > i have a 1974 dodge 4x4 and the springs have no crown left in them.... > can this be helped by replacing the spring pads or by possibly adding > extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? Yes, have them re-arched, but I also added an extra leaf on each side..much improved (cost about $350.00 at an independent frame and spring shop) Charlie The OC '01 ram 1500 4X4 quad cab On a non-Dodge vehicle I had years ago, I was able to take apart the spring pack. And replace all but the big, long, main spring. It was still a heck of a lot of work, but less than replacing the entire spring pack. I got the replacements at a wrecking yard. A plug in impact wrench paid for itself that day. For the U-bolt springs, I heated the nuts up with an acetylene torch. Stick the impact wrench on real quick, and hold the trigger down until the nut came off. The other spring, a friend and I had done the entire job with hand tools. The impact wrench made life a lot easier. SignatureChristopher A. Young You can't shout down a troll. You have to starve them. . : i have a 1974 dodge 4x4 and the springs have no crown left in them.... : can this be helped by replacing the spring pads or by possibly adding : extra thick shim pads between each leaf??? |
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