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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / June 2007Battery Tenders - Thanks Tom L
Tom, Quick "Thanks" to you for recommended the Battery Tenders. My truck sits in the garage 29 out of 30 days per month. I purchased two of the Battery Tender Plus' for my Ram (one for each battery). I could have used one with a patch cable, but once I calculated the cost of the patch cable and extra eye-let connectors, it was only $20.00 more to get a second unit. I hooked the eye-let connectors to each battery. I also bought the 12' extensions and zip tied them where the two plugs are next to the block heater plug. Hooked them up and they work great. Solid green LEDs ... Thanks again. Craig C. Hi Tom! Can you tell me where you picked up the Battery Tenders? Thanks Fred > Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks again. > Craig C. > Can you tell me where you picked up the Battery Tenders? I called Deltran, (Batter Tender maker), (www.batterytender.com) and they suggested that I purchase from www.batterymart.com. I thought this was odd, but it worked out just fine and it was cheaper than buying direct. Two 12v Battery Tender Plus' and two 12' extensions. $124.00 including shipping. Craig C. >> Can you tell me where you picked up the Battery Tenders? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Craig C. Hey Craig!! Ya gotta stop pissin' off those net nannies!<BFG> Roy > Hey Craig!! Ya gotta stop pissin' off those net nannies!<BFG> There's a few of them in the Jeep ng. Nothing I can't handle. :-) But there are also some really knowledgeable folks there. Mike Romain, for example. However, he doesn't work on Liberty's or diesels apparently. Still, I like the folks here much better ... with a few OBVIOUS exceptions. :-) Craig C. >> Hey Craig!! Ya gotta stop pissin' off those net nannies!<BFG> > > There's a few of them in the Jeep ng. Nothing I can't handle. :-) > But there are also some really knowledgeable folks there. Mike Romain, > for example. However, he doesn't work on Liberty's or diesels apparently. Mike does seem to have it together. Chris here, might have a answer for ya. > Still, I like the folks here much better ... with a few OBVIOUS > exceptions. I hear that<G> > :-) > Craig C. Roy > Chris here, might have a answer for ya. Yeah ... Chris has been great. I've pestered the crap out of him with Liberty questions. I figured I'd give him a break. :-) Craig C. >> Chris here, might have a answer for ya. > > Yeah ... Chris has been great. I've pestered the crap out of him with > Liberty questions. I figured I'd give him a break. I think he like's the abuse, go for it. > :-) > Craig C. > I hooked the eye-let connectors to each battery. I also bought the 12' > extensions and zip tied them where the two plugs are next to the block > heater plug. Hooked them up and they work great. Solid green LEDs ... Glad to hear it - but why two? >> I hooked the eye-let connectors to each battery. I also bought the 12' >> extensions and zip tied them where the two plugs are next to the block >> heater plug. Hooked them up and they work great. Solid green LEDs ... > > Glad to hear it - but why two? Two ... units (one for each battery)? Because once I calculated the cost of the patch cable and the extra set of eye-lets it would take to hook up to one unit, an additional unit was only $20 more. The guy I talked to at Deltran said *some* people have success charging two batteries with one unit without overloading it. With my luck ... I wouldn't fall into the *some* category. Craig C. > Two ... units (one for each battery)? Because once I calculated the cost > of the patch cable and the extra set of eye-lets it would take to hook up > to one unit, an additional unit was only $20 more. Okay... but you're aware that there's this big, heavy, red cable running from one battery to the other, right? :) > talked to at Deltran said *some* people have success charging two > batteries with one unit without overloading it. It's not like the extra ampacity makes the battery tender work harder... it's a fixed current output regardless of the size of the battery - bigger batteries would just take longer to charge. The specs on the Battery Tender Plus say: - Charge/Maintain up to 4 batteries (of similar type - in parrallel) Strange they would tell you different - though they did wind up selling two units instead of one :) > Okay... but you're aware that there's this big, heavy, red cable running > from one battery to the other, right? :) Um ... no. I was under the impression that they were completely separate. One battery being responsible for the glow plug/grate thing-o-ma-jig and the other battery for starting and accessories. <this is where you tell me that I was mistaken> :-) >> talked to at Deltran said *some* people have success charging two >> batteries with one unit without overloading it. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > - Charge/Maintain up to 4 batteries (of similar type - in parrallel) I read that too. When I called, I was originally asking about the Battery Tender Jr. They said that it would NOT work at all and suggested the Battery Tender Plus. At which point I asked them, "Hey, I only need one of those, right?" And that's when they mentioned that it *could* overload depending on the battery size. After computing the price of the cable and eye-lets and the *possibility* of overloading one unit, I decided to spring for the extra unit. > Strange they would tell you different - though they did wind up selling two > units instead of one :) See what I mean about my luck? :-) Craig C. > Um ... no. I was under the impression that they were completely separate. > One battery being responsible for the glow plug/grate thing-o-ma-jig and > the other battery for starting and accessories. > > <this is where you tell me that I was mistaken> Yep - this is where I tell you that you're mistaken :) Both batteries are connected together, which is why when one of my stockers exploded, I was able to run for a couple of days on a single battery. Look inside the big wire loom running across the top of your radiator. It's a heavy red wire. Now trace it out. You'll see it goes from the passenger-side battery positive terminal to the driver's side positive terminal. True, the grid heater relays connect to the passenger-side battery, and the starter and IPM connect to the driver's side, but since both batteries are tied together (with that big red cable), every electrical load draws from both batteries. They're simply routed to their respective batteries as a matter of wiring convenience. > Look inside the big wire loom running across the top of your radiator. It's > a heavy red wire. Now trace it out. You'll see it goes from the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > load draws from both batteries. They're simply routed to their respective > batteries as a matter of wiring convenience. So here's the million dollar question: Am I currently frying something by having two Battery Tenders connected? And another million dollar question. If I were to unplug one of the Battery Tenders as I currently have them configured, the remaining Battery Tender would charge both batteries with no other cables or configuration needed? If so, I can use the spare Battery Tender for my boat battery. Craig C. > So here's the million dollar question: Am I currently frying something by > having two Battery Tenders connected? I'd put one away as a spare. > And another million dollar question. If I were to unplug one of the > Battery Tenders as I currently have them configured, the remaining Battery > Tender would charge both batteries with no other cables or configuration > needed? Almost like magic. > If so, I can use the spare Battery Tender for my boat battery. Yeah... you meant to get one for your boat. That's the ticket :) >> And another million dollar question. If I were to unplug one of the >> Battery Tenders as I currently have them configured, the remaining Battery >> Tender would charge both batteries with no other cables or configuration >> needed? > > Almost like magic. Cool. I figured there would be a need to connect the negative terminals. >> If so, I can use the spare Battery Tender for my boat battery. > > Yeah... you meant to get one for your boat. That's the ticket :) Shhh. I won't tell anyone if you don't. :-) Craig C. > Cool. I figured there would be a need to connect the negative terminals. Would you believe me if I told you they were connected together, too? >> Cool. I figured there would be a need to connect the negative terminals. > > Would you believe me if I told you they were connected together, too? No way! Too good to be true. Disconnecting the Battery Tender that belongs on my boat now. :-) Craig C. >>> Cool. I figured there would be a need to connect the negative terminals. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >:-) >Craig C. happy fathersday lol >> Disconnecting the Battery Tender that belongs on my boat now. >> >> :-) >> Craig C. > happy fathersday lol LOL. Won't be telling the wife about this little debacle. Craig C. Update: I called Deltran to ask them why they sold me two Battery Tenders when I only needed one. The response was that one *will* work. HOWEVER, *if* the second battery (the one NOT hooked directly to the Battery Tender) ever weakens more than the one that it is hooked to, the Battery Tender will "smoke" the first battery trying to charge the weaker one. He said that if I wanted to use only one Battery Tender, the proper way to hook it up was to hook the positive eye-let to one battery and the negative eye-let to the other battery. Thus, the need for the additional cabling. Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't know jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. Craig C. >>> Cool. I figured there would be a need to connect the negative >>> terminals. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > :-) > Craig C. > The response was that one *will* work. HOWEVER, *if* the second battery > (the one NOT hooked directly to the Battery Tender) ever weakens more than > the one that it is hooked to, the Battery Tender will "smoke" the first > battery trying to charge the weaker one. Hmmm... sort of makes one wonder what kind of magical doo-dad is inside our alternators that prevents them from doing that, too. > He said that if I wanted to use only one Battery Tender, the proper way to > hook it up was to hook the positive eye-let to one battery and the > negative eye-let to the other battery. Thus, the need for the additional > cabling. Again... just like the alternator is hooked up.... except that it isn't.... the alternator's got a single output that connects to one battery terminal, and relies on the common ground to complete the charging circuit. How do it do dat? :) > Again... just like the alternator is hooked up.... except that it > isn't.... the alternator's got a single output that connects to one battery > terminal, and relies on the common ground to complete the charging circuit. > How do it do dat? :) You know ... I don't know. I'm just glad I was forward thinking enough to purchase a Battery Tender for my boat. :-) Craig C. > Update: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > than the one that it is hooked to, the Battery Tender will "smoke" the > first battery trying to charge the weaker one. That's a riot! You must have had Nell Nelson on the phone. > He said that if I wanted to use only one Battery Tender, the proper way > to hook it up was to hook the positive eye-let to one battery and the > negative eye-let to the other battery. Thus, the need for the > additional cabling. <choke, gasp> > Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't know > jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. The industry is obviously in desperate need of people who know something about parallel batteries.  SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin >> The response was that one *will* work. HOWEVER, *if* the second >> battery (the one NOT hooked directly to the Battery Tender) ever >> weakens more than the one that it is hooked to, the Battery Tender >> will "smoke" the first battery trying to charge the weaker one. > > That's a riot! You must have had Nell Nelson on the phone. Actually it was John Ford. Head Technician for Deltran. >> He said that if I wanted to use only one Battery Tender, the proper >> way to hook it up was to hook the positive eye-let to one battery and >> the negative eye-let to the other battery. Thus, the need for the >> additional cabling. > > <choke, gasp> So are you saying that he is wrong? Tell us, electrical expert, what would happen if I hooked up the Battery Tender as John recommended? >> Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't >> know jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. > > The industry is obviously in desperate need of people who know something > about parallel batteries. Maybe. I find it more interesting, however, that you waited until after Tom made his comments to come along and try to be an expert on the matter. I trust what Tom L. said about it and have followed that advice. He's not steered me wrong yet. Craig C. Crag: >>> The response was that one *will* work. HOWEVER, *if* the second >>> battery (the one NOT hooked directly to the Battery Tender) ever [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > So are you saying that he is wrong? Tell us, electrical expert, what > would happen if I hooked up the Battery Tender as John recommended? Nothing would happen differently whether you connect it his way or not. There's just no reason for additional cabling to reach the negative post of the other battery. Both negative posts are grounded to the frame, they're functionally the same, there's 5,000 lbs. of steel connecting them. That's a "heavy" wire! >>> Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't >>> know jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Maybe. I find it more interesting, however, that you waited until after > Tom made his comments to come along and try to be an expert on the matter. So? I waited to see what kind of replies you got. That should hardly be "more interesting", graywacke. I was talking about batteries weeks ago with Know Nothing NELL. > I trust what Tom L. said about it and have followed that advice. He's > not steered me wrong yet. Then you aren't trusting what John Ford said, right? > Craig C. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin >>> <choke, gasp> >> >> So are you saying that he is wrong? Tell us, electrical expert, what >> would happen if I hooked up the Battery Tender as John recommended? > > Nothing would happen differently whether you connect it his way or not. Then why the added drama of "<choke, gasp>". Just being a girl? > Then you aren't trusting what John Ford said, right? I believe that John recommends the extra configuration for a reason. What that reason is, is unknown to me and apparently you too. I'm sure they ran scores of tests on many different kinds of vehicles. However, with my truck, I trust tried and true Cummins mechanics/fanatics more. Like some of the members of this ng and my local mechanic. Craig C. Crag: >>>> <choke, gasp> >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Then why the added drama of "<choke, gasp>". Just being a girl? Because "... the proper way to hook it up was to hook the positive eye-let to one battery and the negative eye-let to the other battery. Thus, the need for the additional cabling." Not because nothing would happen differently. And what are eye-lets? Is that girl-talk for ring connectors? SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin > Crag: >> > And what are eye-lets? Is that girl-talk for ring connectors? Probably wanted to be sure you'd understand. >> Then why the added drama of "<choke, gasp>". Just being a girl? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > need for the additional cabling." > Not because nothing would happen differently. Hardly a reason to "<choke, gasp>". Maybe your were "<choke, gasp>"-ing on something else. > And what are eye-lets? The connectors that connect directly to the battery. >Is that girl-talk for ring connectors? It's non-mechanic speak for "ring connectors". You got the point, and so did everyone else. So shut the f.ck up. Craig C. Crag: >>> Then why the added drama of "<choke, gasp>". Just being a girl? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Hardly a reason to "<choke, gasp>". Plenty of reason! Head Technician for Deltran gives wrong advice about the need for additional cabling to hook up a battery charger. Your truck's frame already *is* additional cabling leading to the negative post of the other battery. >> And what are eye-lets? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's non-mechanic speak for "ring connectors". You got the point, and > so did everyone else. So shut the f.ck up. Yup, everyone recognized your pansy-speak for ring connectors. > Craig C. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin >> Hardly a reason to "<choke, gasp>". > > Plenty of reason! > Head Technician for Deltran gives wrong advice But ... it isn't "wrong" according to what you said, just unnecessary. Additionally, you still haven't convinced me that you know more than he does. So at this point, you're just running your mouth. >> It's non-mechanic speak for "ring connectors". You got the point, and >> so did everyone else. So shut the f.ck up. > > Yup, everyone recognized your pansy-speak for ring connectors. We all have our areas of expertise. Mine is not auto mechanics or mechanic speak, like 95%+ of the population. I guess we can't all be queer, electrical, mechanical, grammatical experts like you. Damn. Craig C. > >> Hardly a reason to "<choke, gasp>". > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Craig C. Don't you mean thank God, vice DAMN? > Don't you mean thank God, vice DAMN? Yes. That was part of the joke. Hello? Earth to Larry? :-) Craig C. > > Don't you mean thank God, vice DAMN? > > Yes. That was part of the joke. Hello? Earth to Larry? > > :-) > Craig C. Sorry Larry has stepped out of his body for a bit, please leave a msg! Crag: >>> Hardly a reason to "<choke, gasp>". >> >> Plenty of reason! >> Head Technician for Deltran gives wrong advice > > But ... it isn't "wrong" according to what you said, just unnecessary. Which makes it wrong advice. It doesn't come free, it adds clutter. I think John Ford simply decided he should sell you another battery tender when he heard you say "eyelet" on the phone. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin >Crag: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I think John Ford simply decided he should sell you another battery >tender when he heard you say "eyelet" on the phone. i would like to think that you went away from the news group for a while in order to sharpen your wit. but if i thought that i would be wrong. you are still a moron sheryl. thedumbguy: >>Crag: >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > while in order to sharpen your wit. but if i thought that i would be > wrong. That's correct. I guess you don't often get what you'd like. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin >thedumbguy: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >That's correct. I guess you don't often get what you'd like. you are right sheryl. its just my optimistic nature to hold out hope that in america, even a moron like you has the opportunity to grow up become a normal person. unfortunately, i am coming to realize that there are some, like yourself, without the intelect to be able to cash in on the opportunity. >> But ... it isn't "wrong" according to what you said, just unnecessary. > > Which makes it wrong advice. It doesn't come free, it adds clutter. Nope. "Wrong" advice would be what Snotard gives. You know, the guy you were defending when you reared your ugly head in this group? As I said, and you ignored, Deltran very likely ran scores of tests and have a reason to recommend that configuration. Just because your brain and "expertise" are too limited to understand it doesn't mean that it's "wrong". In my case, I really don't care ... my truck only needs one, but I can use two if I wish. My choice. No harm, no foul. > I think John Ford simply decided he should sell you another battery > tender when he heard you say "eyelet" on the phone. 1) I could return if I wished, but I can use it for other things. 2) Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grommet You will note that although not 100% descriptive in this case "eyelet" is a valid way to describe the part and it is a valid part name. Not merely made up as you have hinted. Now, go f.ck yourself. Craig C. Crag: >>> But ... it isn't "wrong" according to what you said, just unnecessary. >> >> Which makes it wrong advice. It doesn't come free, it adds clutter. > > Nope. Then you might like to route some additional cabling out the front of the grill, down the side, loop twice around the rear bumper, back up the side, over the roof, and back through the grill to the second battery. It will work great. > "Wrong" advice would be what Snotard gives. You know, the guy > you were defending when you reared your ugly head in this group? You're talking about the time the advice wasn't wrong, but punky had to find something to whine about so he made up BS about punctuation, grammar, spelling, and run-on sentences. And my head can't be too ugly, people mistake me for an actor. Or maybe it's my commanding presence. > As I said, and you ignored, Deltran very likely ran scores of tests and > have a reason to recommend that configuration. Just because your brain > and "expertise" are too limited to understand it doesn't mean that it's > "wrong". If I'm wrong, then Tom L is also wrong. If Tom is right, then John Ford is wrong. > In my case, I really don't care ... my truck only needs one, but I can > use two if I wish. My choice. No harm, no foul. And how are you going to connect one? >> I think John Ford simply decided he should sell you another battery >> tender when he heard you say "eyelet" on the phone. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > is a valid way to describe the part and it is a valid part name. Not > merely made up as you have hinted. I never hinted that your "eye-let" was a madeup name. I didn't even mention that you don't know how to spell it. > Now, go f.ck yourself. > > Craig C. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin > And my head can't be too ugly, people mistake me for an actor. Who? Rock Hudson? Makes sense ... he liked 'hot dogs' too. >> brain and "expertise" are too limited to understand it doesn't mean >> that it's "wrong". > > If I'm wrong, then Tom L is also wrong. If Tom is right, then John Ford > is wrong. Tom didn't comment on the wire being connected to positive on one battery and negative on the other, IIRC. Regarding John Ford, I'm positive that he knows more about this subject than you. So, let it go. If you can't let it go, take it up with him. >> In my case, I really don't care ... my truck only needs one, but I can >> use two if I wish. My choice. No harm, no foul. > > And how are you going to connect one? Well, right now I still have both connected. One to each battery. After I finish getting some work done on my boat, I will probably just unhook one. No further configuration, as Tom suggested. Or ... maybe I'll forget and leave both units hooked up. I don't know ... so many options ... >> You will note that although not 100% descriptive in this case "eyelet" >> is a valid way to describe the part and it is a valid part name. Not >> merely made up as you have hinted. > > I never hinted that your "eye-let" was a madeup name. I didn't even > mention that you don't know how to spell it. Again with the spelling? I guess I shouldn't be surprised, you look like a horse's a.s for making fun of the word and then when I showed you that an "eyelet" is actually a "metal ring" and not a made up word, your only choice is to draw attention away because I used a hyphen. f.cking-Idiot. How 'bout that hyphen? Craig C. Crag: >> And my head can't be too ugly, people mistake me for an actor. > > Who? Rock Hudson? Makes sense ... he liked 'hot dogs' too. Your wife says Ron Jeremy. >>> In my case, I really don't care ... my truck only needs one, but I >>> can use two if I wish. My choice. No harm, no foul. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Or ... maybe I'll forget and leave both units hooked up. I don't know > ... so many options ... Yeah, you could even connect both to battery #1, or both to battery #2. What luck that you bought two of them. >>> You will note that although not 100% descriptive in this case >>> "eyelet" is a valid way to describe the part and it is a valid part [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > like a horse's a.s for making fun of the word and then when I showed you > that an "eyelet" is actually a "metal ring" and not a made up word, your I know what an eyelet is. You just come across as a little sissy with your girly vocabulary here. > only choice is to draw attention away because I used a hyphen. > > f.cking-Idiot. How 'bout that hyphen? > > Craig C. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin >Crag: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >And my head can't be too ugly, people mistake me for an actor. mickey rooney? > Or maybe > it's my commanding presence. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> >> Craig C. > Crag: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > And my head can't be too ugly, people mistake me for an actor. Or maybe > it's my commanding presence. Rosie O'Donnell? >> As I said, and you ignored, Deltran very likely ran scores of tests and >> have a reason to recommend that configuration. Just because your brain [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >> Craig C. > Crag: >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > they're functionally the same, there's 5,000 lbs. of steel connecting > them. That's a "heavy" wire! There's 5,000 lbs of steel connecting the batteries? My god man! How heavy is the truck that carries that much weight for a battery cable? >>>> Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't >>>> know jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "more interesting", graywacke. I was talking about batteries weeks ago > with Know Nothing NELL. During the time of the "electrical questions" thread my computer suffered a hard drive crash, it took me a few days to re-install the OS, drivers, a few flash updates I had missed, restore from backup, etc. At any rate, I missed that whole discussion, but read much of it tonight because of your self professed knowledge on the subject in this thread. I noticed that you continue to make friends and sway opinion with your usual aplomb. You posted something about 2-6V golf cart batteries in series versus 2-12V batteries in parallel that you had read many years ago in an RV magazine, but I doubt you understood the nature of the article. A standard automotive battery is also known as a "starting" battery. It is good for producing a lot of amperage for a short period of time so that it may turn the starter motor. A golf cart battery produces less amperage than a starting battery, but it is capable of producing that reduced amperage for a much longer period of time as compared to a starting battery. That is why golf cart batteries are ideal for RV applications. I really do feel sorry for you, Beryl. You have a tremendous need to make an a.s out of yourself in order to draw attention. I would suggest you get a dog, but I think a cat may be more appropriate as a dog requires your attention and a cat requires little. >> I trust what Tom L. said about it and have followed that advice. He's >> not steered me wrong yet. > > Then you aren't trusting what John Ford said, right? > >> Craig C. B Edith: >>Crag: >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > There's 5,000 lbs of steel connecting the batteries? My god man! How heavy > is the truck that carries that much weight for a battery cable? The truck /is/ a battery cable. Tons of frame, engine, body, and any other bit of metal that is electrically bonded to them. But you don't get it, Edith, I understand. >>>>>Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't >>>>>know jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > hard drive crash, it took me a few days to re-install the OS, drivers, a few > flash updates I had missed, restore from backup, etc. And you reinstalled Outlook Express! What a dink. You only needed to install the latest flash update, not a few of them. Got all your barnyard animal pics restored? > At any rate, I missed > that whole discussion, but read much of it tonight because of your self Read it all, Edith. I want you to see how helpless and pathetic poor, miscalculating NELL was. > professed knowledge on the subject in this thread. I noticed that you > continue to make friends and sway opinion with your usual aplomb. So very astute, Edith. Actually not. It's no secret that I'm being an a.s here. I've said so, and explained why, myself. > You posted something about 2-6V golf cart batteries in series versus 2-12V > batteries in parallel that you had read many years ago in an RV magazine, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > time as compared to a starting battery. That is why golf cart batteries are > ideal for RV applications. That was not the nature of the RV magazine article. Batteries in *series* are ideal for RV applications because they don't kill each other during extended periods of non-use, so effectively that means 6-volters. It wasn't about golf cart batteries, or forklift batteries, or lighthouse batteries. > I really do feel sorry for you, Beryl. You have a tremendous need to make > an a.s out of yourself in order to draw attention. I would suggest you get > a dog, Got one! 126 lbs. of Akita/Rottweiler/Pitbull mutt, and friendly as heck. Tore the end of my finger half off once when he darted after a rabbit and his leash yanked my hand across the front of my truck. > but I think a cat may be more appropriate as a dog requires your > attention and a cat requires little. All the animals here enjoy my attention, Edith! My parakeets' day-old seed leftovers feed wild birds and rabbits. They know the routine, they see me, and they come a-runnin'. The rabbits here have become so tame that I can walk by and they'll usually only move a couple of feet so they don't get stepped on. Ravens and squirrels like fruit. Ever see ravens up close? Those birds are BIG! Rattlesnakes get relocated. I don't want a cat. >>>I trust what Tom L. said about it and have followed that advice. He's >>>not steered me wrong yet. >> >>Then you aren't trusting what John Ford said, right? SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin > Edith: >>>Crag: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > bit of metal that is electrically bonded to them. > But you don't get it, Edith, I understand. The amount of current that the frame can handle is substantially greater than what the cable connecting the post to the battery is capable of, so in effect there is not 5000 lbs of steel connecting the batteries. >>>>>>Thought this was important enough to pass along. I certainly don't >>>>>>know jack sh.t about electrical, so it all sounds greek to me. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > You only needed to install the latest flash update, not a few of them. > Got all your barnyard animal pics restored? You don't know what a flash update is, do you? If you do, you don't know how many devices I needed to update, or the version I was starting at - some updates need a specific minimum version before you can install the next one. Your insults are patheticley boring because you frequently make assumptions in your desire to be an a.s. >> At any rate, I missed that whole discussion, but read much of it tonight >> because of your self [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >>> >>>Then you aren't trusting what John Ford said, right? Edith: > "Beryl" <terrapin@coolbits.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > than what the cable connecting the post to the battery is capable of, so in > effect there is not 5000 lbs of steel connecting the batteries. True enough, and the additional cable that graywacke believes in will also have less carrying capacity than the frame that's already in place. >>>During the time of the "electrical questions" thread my computer suffered >>>a hard drive crash, it took me a few days to re-install the OS, drivers, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > You don't know what a flash update is, do you? If you do, you don't know There are lots of things that can be "flash" updated. My motherboard's BIOS got flashed, my modem got flashed, my MP3 player got flashed... Those kinds of flashes have nothing to do with recovering from a hard drive crash. > how many devices I needed to update, or the version I was starting at - some > updates need a specific minimum version before you can install the next one. > Your insults are patheticley boring because you frequently make assumptions > in your desire to be an a.s. Thanks! Adobe Flash was the reasonable assumption. SignatureThis explains it ALL!!! He was home schooled and his mommy made his GES diploma for him out of needle point, to go with his pin head and needle dick. :) -- punkin > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Those kinds of flashes have nothing to do with recovering from a hard > drive crash. Really! You really don't know sh.t than do you cock breath? News flash cock breath, when you recover from a HDD crash or failure and you are starting from fresh some thing will need to be flashed for the system to work properly again. But f.ck, I'm only an IT Tech what the hell do I know. Now, bring on your lame as game. punkin: >>Edith: >>>"Beryl" <terra...@coolbits.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > system to work properly again. But f.ck, I'm only an IT Tech what the > hell do I know. You know as much as you did about headlight bulbs, relays, alternators, jumper cables, tire pressure, and motor oil. Squat. I've been assembling PCs and swapping drives with new, or freshly reformatted, for years. Nothing has needed flashing ever. > Now, bring on your lame as game. Here's the stupidest thing I've ever read in this group... "Hell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables?" SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > punkin: > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > You know as much as you did about headlight bulbs, relays, alternators, > jumper cables, tire pressure, and motor oil. Squat. I am so glad that you are so high and mighty as to think you know more than EVERY one else. You still seem to believe that know one can know anything if they are in disagreance with you. You have poven againg and again, that when you are shown to be wrong which happens just about every time you take the cock out of your mouth, the only thing you know how to do is revert back to spelling and grammar attacks. As to the areas above, I know a lot more about them than you but again, because you disagreed with some of the info, it MOST be wrong. Sadly, it was not. > I've been assembling PCs and swapping drives with new, or freshly > reformatted, for years. Nothing has needed flashing ever. Oh really. That nice to know though I can garuntee that myself and others in here could run circles around you concerning this area. You've been swapping drive, now why would you do this, you are the self proclaimed expert at every thing so you should never have an issue. Besides, even a monkey can swap a drive. > > Now, bring on your lame as game. > > Here's the stupidest thing I've ever read in this group... > > "Hell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in > a set of jumper cables?" No, the stupidest thing ever said in this group is anything that is said by you, when ever you stop sucking your dogs dick and start typing again. > -- > Hell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in > a set of jumper cables? -- punkin- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - punkin: >>punkin: >>>>Edith: [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > again, because you disagreed with some of the info, it MOST be wrong. > Sadly, it was not. Stop blabbering and tell us what needs to be flashed for the system to work properly again after a hard drive replacement. >>I've been assembling PCs and swapping drives with new, or freshly >>reformatted, for years. Nothing has needed flashing ever. > > Oh really. That nice to know though I can garuntee that myself and > others in here could run circles around you concerning this area. So do it. Tell us what needs to be flashed for the system to work properly again after a hard drive replacement. > You've been swapping drive, now why would you do this, you are the > self proclaimed expert at every thing so you should never have an > issue. Besides, even a monkey can swap a drive. Tell us what needs to be flashed for the system to work properly again after a hard drive replacement. >>>Now, bring on your lame as game. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > said by you, when ever you stop sucking your dogs dick and start > typing again. Tell us what needs to be flashed for the system to work properly again after a hard drive replacement. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > punkin: > [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > Tell us what needs to be flashed for the system to work properly again > after a hard drive replacement. perhaps nothing, perhaps several things. it depends on a lot of variables regarding hardware, software, and firmware. again, your assumptions lead you to argue about a wrong conclusion. because it seems you have week logic skils, i doubt very much that re-reading my original post in this thread will help you any, and i don't feel like spelling it out for you. you're the final product of hay. Edith: >>Tell us what needs to be flashed for the system to work properly again >>after a hard drive replacement. > > perhaps nothing, perhaps several things. it depends on a lot of variables You're blabbering too. Tell me ONE single thing that you needed to flash for your system to work properly again after the hard drive replacement. > regarding hardware, software, and firmware. again, your assumptions lead > you to argue about a wrong conclusion. because it seems you have week logic > skils, i doubt very much that re-reading my original post in this thread > will help you any, and i don't feel like spelling it out for you. You can't spell it out at all. You don't know what you're talking about, and neither does the IT Tech idiot. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You can't spell it out at all. You don't know what you're talking about, > and neither does the IT Tech idiot. Now I'm an idiot? How about you come down here to AZ and back up all the sh.t you talk you c.nt bitch? How about you come down here and prove that I don't know what I am talking about? You got the balls (not the ones in your mouth) to back up all the sh.t you talk? Yes, I must be a real idiot too, having been able to start my own SUCESSFUL PC buis. punkin: >>Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Now I'm an idiot? Yes. You'll be an idiot tomorrow too. > How about you come down here to AZ and back up all > the sh.t you talk you c.nt bitch? How about you come down here and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yes, I must be a real idiot too, having been able to start my own > SUCESSFUL PC buis. Let me guess, you put together hokey "Gaming" PCs with gruesome looking cases and LED fans. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > punkin: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Yes. You'll be an idiot tomorrow too. Only in the eyes of some sorry a.s pathetic cock sucking moron, who like to pretend he/she/it is greater than EVERY one else. I throw out the challange to you again, if you are so much better then me, and I am such an idiot, bring your sorry a.s here and prove it. > > How about you come down here to AZ and back up all > > the sh.t you talk you c.nt bitch? How about you come down here and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Let me guess, you put together hokey "Gaming" PCs with gruesome looking > cases and LED fans. I build what the customer wants and if it is a gaming system than that is what it is. Maybe if you knew more about this stuff you would understand that more people that are into computers are gamers, that more companies produce components specifically designed for this purpose and that this is where the money is. Take a look at the SLI video cards, as an example, made for gaming systems and now being adapted into systems that need higher graphic production abilities. Oh, but I bet you knew that and now I am an idiot. > -- > Hell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in > a set of jumper cables? -- punkin- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - punkin: >>punkin: >>>Now I'm an idiot? >> >>Yes. You'll be an idiot tomorrow too. > > Only in the eyes of some sorry a.s pathetic cock sucking moron, who Who knows you don't have to reflash anything when you install a hard drive. > like to pretend he/she/it is greater than EVERY one else. I throw out > the challange to you again, if you are so much better then me, and I > am such an idiot, bring your sorry a.s here and prove it. Hey, you come over here. I'll stomp you into a gopher hole. And your dog is a punk too, my dog can kick your dog's a.s. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > Let me guess, you put together hokey "Gaming" PCs with gruesome looking > cases and LED fans. That market is heavily saturated with competition with razor thin profit margins. If he has a good company going he must be a pretty good businessman. I never said that I "needed" to install a flash update, moron. In your continuing attempt to belittle me, you showed your ignorance twice in this thread. First by assuming I installed software called "Flash something or other" then you assumed that I thought I needed to install firmware updates. Keeping your firmware at the latest revision is just a precaution. What do you do for a living? I have been in MIS and IT for 27 years. > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You can't spell it out at all. You don't know what you're talking about, > and neither does the IT Tech idiot. Edith: > I never said that I "needed" to install a flash update, moron. Okay, the IT tech idiot said you needed to. > In your > continuing attempt to belittle me, you showed your ignorance twice in this > thread. First by assuming I installed software called "Flash something or > other" What other "flash" goes on a hard drive? Adobe/Macromedia Flash, the browser plugin, is the only one that comes to mind, and you were talking about setting up your new hard drive. > then you assumed that I thought I needed to install firmware updates. > Keeping your firmware at the latest revision is just a precaution. > > What do you do for a living? Bask. > I have been in MIS and IT for 27 years. My condolences. :( SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin I saw in another post the kind of systems you're familier with and it explains a lot about your ignorance. But of course, your self professed desire to be an a.s, coupled with your ignorance, leads you to assumptions, which you then use to be an a.s. It's a self propogating circle. You're a pathetic moron. > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Bask. In the glow of your own magnificance? >> I have been in MIS and IT for 27 years. > > My condolences. :( No condolences are needed nor requested. I like my career very much. >I saw in another post the kind of systems you're familier with and it >explains a lot about your ignorance. But of course, your self professed >desire to be an a.s, coupled with your ignorance, leads you to assumptions, >which you then use to be an a.s. It's a self propogating circle. You're a >pathetic moron. well.........yeah. i thought that was a given. >> Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >No condolences are needed nor requested. I like my career very much. > Edith: > > > I never said that I "needed" to install a flash update, moron. > > Okay, the IT tech idiot said you needed to. Really, care to show me where? You can't because I never said that and I have re-read ever post I have made in this thread concerning this. You are a lying cock sucker and the only way you can do anything is to insult, lie, twist words and when proven wrong, you revert back to your spelling and grammar bullshit. Maybe, just maybe if you were not such an arragent piece of sh.t life you be better for you and you might actually have more firends than your hand and dog. > > Edith: > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and I have re-read ever post I have made in this thread concerning > this. Dude, you really need to stop and let it die. Talk about feeding the trolls. You are supplying a gourmet along with appetizers, desert, and cigars and brandy afterwards. You did say it and did so in your first post defending Ed. Here is the post: Really! You really don't know sh.t than do you cock breath? News flash cock breath, when you recover from a HDD crash or failure and you are starting from fresh some thing will need to be flashed for the system to work properly again. But f.ck, I'm only an IT Tech what the hell do I know. Sorry Larry, but you are wrong here and I have been a systems admin for 15 years and a programmer for over 20 and I have yet to have to flash anything due to a HDD swap. Now perhaps you just got your terminology wrong and meant to say update to the OS or drivers but that is not a flash. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > due to a HDD swap. Now perhaps you just got your terminology wrong and > meant to say update to the OS or drivers but that is not a flash. Well, I personally have had to re-flash some components after recovering from a major failure which forced the PC in question to be down for an extented period of time with no power applied to it. But I am not going to argue with you or the cock sucker about it as according to some in here, I am just an idiot. Whatever f.ck all that actually feel that way. I hate to say it but this group is going to sh.t (again) real fast. There used to be a difference between talking to eachother, flaming in jest and fun, such as with the Torque wrench debat and truly "attacking" some one. Not anymore there isn't. >> > > Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >jest and fun, such as with the Torque wrench debat and truly >"attacking" some one. Not anymore there isn't. larry, i think part of what tom has tried to say (maybe not so much this time, but in the past anyway) is simply that it takes two to tangle, so to speak. you can only be attacked if you acknowledge to the op that he (or in sheryl's case it) matters to you enough to upset you. sheryl is a moron. i can't think of anything that it says that should piss you off. when you get pissed, you give people like sheryl the power that they need to keep going. you give some legitimacy to what it says. for me at least, i just give sheryl the creditibility that it deserves (none) and i give the appropriate amount of consideration of what it says (again...none) and move on. sheryl is fun to read, sort of like a horror movie is to watch, but as far as worrying about a thing it says............well, not for me. On Jun 24, 11:33 am, the...@whatever.net wrote: > >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Actually I will disagree with you about some of what you said. Lets go back to the first time this troll came into the group a few months back. No one knew who this "person" was, this "person" didn't know any of us from Adam, yet, the first thing it did was to flat out attack some one, specifically me. Why, no one knew then, no one knows now. Since that day, it has been nothing but an attack against me in most of my posts, an example would be the alternator post from about a month ago. Sorry, I guess this is where you and I difrer, when some one attacks me, I want to know why. If it is legit, fine, but provide the proof as to why it was necessary in the first place. Example, Snoman, he has been proven time and time again to be dangerous with the info he posts. To me, "protecting" the unknowing is legit. >On Jun 24, 11:33 am, the...@whatever.net wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >Sorry, I guess this is where you and I difrer, when some one attacks >me, I want to know why. you're right then. we differ on that. personally, i wouldn't care. > If it is legit, fine, but provide the proof >as to why it was necessary in the first place. Example, Snoman, he >has been proven time and time again to be dangerous with the info he >posts. To me, "protecting" the unknowing is legit. On Jun 24, 4:15 pm, the...@whatever.net wrote: > >On Jun 24, 11:33 am, the...@whatever.net wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > - Show quoted text - and see, we agree on something! <bg> > > > > Edith: > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I am not going to argue with you or the cock sucker about it as > according to some in here, I am just an idiot. I don't recall ever calling you an idiot but you are getting a bit thin skinned. You might be an IT tech but that doesn't mean that you know everything. I've been in the business for over 20 years and have worked on PC's from 8086 level to present, AS-400's, RS/600's, Mac's, various Sun machines, Kaypro's, various generics and old propriatary crap and I still know far from everything. You got it wrong, big deal. I used to be like that in here but learned that it simply isn't worth it. > Whatever f.ck all that > actually feel that way. I hate to say it but this group is going to > sh.t (again) real fast. It only happens if you let it. As theguy pointed out and much more clearly than I did, it takes two and if you don't respond, the conversation dies quickly. > There used to be a difference between talking to eachother, flaming in > jest and fun, such as with the Torque wrench debat and truly > "attacking" some one. Not anymore there isn't. What planet have you been on for the past few years. You attack Snowball every chance you get regardless if he is right or wrong and look at the crap that used to go on between me and Budd. It happens and you have a choice, either let it die or keep it going. I used to keep it going because there was no way that cocksucker (insert whatever name here) was going to get the best of me when in reality, all I was doing was wasting my time and feeding the trolls. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> > > > Edith: >> > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > feeding > the trolls. Hmm, there's a lot of truth in what you say. I've walked away a few times, but I still see myself in the > (insert whatever name here) was going to get the > best of me when in reality, all I was doing was wasting my time and > feeding > the trolls. > >> > > > Edith: > >> > [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > feeding > > the trolls. Yea, me too and even after actively looking to avoid it but at least I have managed to significantly reduce the number of times I let it happen. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > >> > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Oh, and to prove my point about the fact tht I am not WRONG. For all you "experts" go play with a PC using an Abit AN7 motherboard using SATA HDD. Hell take one that is already up and running. Pull out the HDD and install a new one. Guess what, the mobo will not see the SATA device. Take a HDD that alread had Windows loaded on it and access the Recovery tool off the CD to repair the drive, oh, you won't be able to. Want to know why? Because Abit did not put the drivers for the SATA Controller in the BIOS, or anywhere for that matter, so EVERYTIME you want to change the drive or access a drive that is installed for ANY REASON, you have to flash the drivers for the SATA controller. Now, tell me I am wrong and I will tell you right now f.ck off, I have that EXACT very set up and I know this to be fact. punkin: >>>>>>>> Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > Now, tell me I am wrong and I will tell you right now f.ck off, I > have that EXACT very set up and I know this to be fact. SATA drivers are copied the hard disk. You don't "flash" them. Press "Delete" while booting to enter the setup screen, you can redetect and manually configure drives there. That stuff is stored on a CMOS chip, backed up by a CR2032 battery. You probably have a dead battery and everything is lost when you unplug your power supply. My NF7 with XP-M 2600+ can kick your AN7's a.s, and run cooler doing it. And you're an idiot. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > punkin: > [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What ever cock breath. You are wrong about this pertaining to the AN7 board, but you won't admit it and I bet you haven't configed a system using one. f.ck off you ignorant f.ck. punkin: >>punkin: >>>>>>>>>>Edith: [quoted text clipped - 124 lines] > > What ever cock breath. You are wrong about this pertaining to the AN7 Wrong about what? There's SATA code included in BIOS, but you don't need to reflash that again every time you change the drive. > board, but you won't admit it and I bet you haven't configed a system > using one. f.ck off you ignorant f.ck. Abit NF7-S rev.2 and Abit AN7 are almost identical boards. Only difference that I'm aware of is the uGuru chip feature of the AN7, which reportedly isn't all that slick anyway. And there are more more NF7 enthusiasts, and more custom BIOSes for the NF7 than for the later AN7. I've overclocked mine, underclocked it, played with the different FSB/RAM ratios, memory timings, voltages I want for the CPU and other stuff, disabled features that I don't use, etc. Now I'm happy and I'm all finished dorking around with it. Go join the abit user forums and learn about your AN7 board. Newbies are welcome there. :-) http://forum.abit-usa.com/ SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > punkin: > >>punkin: [quoted text clipped - 128 lines] > Wrong about what? There's SATA code included in BIOS, but you don't need > to reflash that again every time you change the drive. True, but there was a bios setting that needed to be changed to correct this problem. > > board, but you won't admit it and I bet you haven't configed a system > > using one. f.ck off you ignorant f.ck. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reportedly isn't all that slick anyway. And there are more more NF7 > enthusiasts, and more custom BIOSes for the NF7 than for the later AN7. The AN7 has a slightly different layout and was faster in some testing but the difference between them was said to be undetectable in real life situations. > I've overclocked mine, underclocked it, played with the different > FSB/RAM ratios, memory timings, voltages I want for the CPU and other [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://forum.abit-usa.com/ SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > "Beryl" <terrapin@coolbits.net> wrote in message >>Wrong about what? There's SATA code included in BIOS, but you don't need >>to reflash that again every time you change the drive. > > True, but there was a bios setting that needed to be changed to correct this > problem. Eh, so many computer geeks surfaced here. I don't know what setting needs to be changed. Punkin doesn't know that there are any BIOS settings. Help him out. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > > > >> > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > the Recovery tool off the CD to repair the drive, oh, you won't be > able to. If the system cannot see a new device, especially if an existing one of the same type was seen, then either the new device is defective or there is a bios or bois setting problem. Once the bios is flashed with a newer version, then that version remains, even after a power down or a device swap (short of the MB itself). Why would you need to use the recovery tool to repair a drive that has windows already installed on it and if the system cannot see it, then there is no way for the recovery tool to see it either as it gets that info from the system. If you are talking about a windows install from a different system, the recovery tool will not help you and you need to use the installer in repair mode to try and make the required changes. > Want to know why? Because Abit did not put the drivers for the SATA > Controller in the BIOS, or anywhere for that matter, so EVERYTIME you > want to change the drive or access a drive that is installed for ANY > REASON, you have to flash the drivers for the SATA controller. Do you even realize just how stupid this sounds? Do you really believe that they are going to put out their premiere gaming board with SATA capability and then put no method to access them on the board???? LOL! Do you actually know what flashing the BIOS means? Once flashed, the code is stored in NVRAM and does not have to be reflashed with the same thing every time you change something as that code remains intact and is not erased. Now the settings are a different story. They are placed in SDRAM and can be lost if the CMOS battery dies or if you set the jumper to clear it which basically disconnects the battery and shorts the SDRAM to ground to clear it and those settings may need to be changed when you make changes to the system, especially if you are tweaking the system to its max. And speaking of settings, a few minutes research showed that a default setting for your board is most likely the cause of your problems. A bios setting called EXT P2P DISCARD TIME SETTING is set to 30us which is way to small, especially if you are using a WD drive. Setting it to 1MS should solve your drive problem, even though the manual says not to change it. IOW, the manual is wrong. BTW, where exactly did you get this driver flash and how exactly are you installing it? > Now, tell me I am wrong and I will tell you right now f.ck off, I have that > EXACT very set up and I know this to be fact. Yea, this is really grown up of you. You wonder why Beryl and Steve attacked you, well this is the reason. Just because reflashing it makes it work doesn't mean that it is the only way or even the correct way to fix it or that the problem is what you think and telling anyone who disagrees with you to f.ck off shows that you are unwilling to learn and that actually makes you worse than I was. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > "Ed H." <edo.h...@verizon.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 184 lines] > > - Show quoted text - If you think I am so worng, fine what ever. You and Beryl are the experts but I will never kiss your a.s like it is appearant that you want. No Tom I do not tell "anyone" who disagress with me to "f.ck off" I am telling you that, I will continue to tell beryl and snoball that. Read my postings with miles, theguy, roy, beekeep and others. Where have I told them to f.ck off? See the problem is Tom and you are too damn blind to see it, is that if you want to tell me I am wrong aobut something do it, but know the particulars about the exact situation before hand and don't attempt to do so by making statements like, "You're an idiot and you don't know what you are talking about" > damn blind to see it, is that if you want to tell me I am wrong aobut > something do it, but know the particulars about the exact situation If all of you would buy Macs, there wouldn't be any argument. They just work. :-) I'm still thinking about doing this: http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=59851 Tether it to my phone and I can get movies and music while on the road. Pull into my driveway, it logs on to my wireless network and syncs with my Mac inside. Craig C. >> damn blind to see it, is that if you want to tell me I am wrong aobut >> something do it, but know the particulars about the exact situation [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Craig C. A MAC??? i'll stick to my linux thanks very much!!! *grin* Signature____________________________________________ Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD >> damn blind to see it, is that if you want to tell me I am wrong aobut >> something do it, but know the particulars about the exact situation [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Pull into my driveway, it logs on to my wireless network and syncs with my > Mac inside. Your mac? Hmmmm I thought mac was in mexico? now the truth comes out. <BFG> > Craig C. >> damn blind to see it, is that if you want to tell me I am wrong aobut >> something do it, but know the particulars about the exact situation > >If all of you would buy Macs, there wouldn't be any argument. They just >work. :-) lol. >I'm still thinking about doing this: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Craig C. > If all of you would buy Macs, there wouldn't be any argument. They just > work. :-) Nah, they crash too. I can't stand anything thats proprietary. Apple doesn't learn. Look at Apples FireWire usage as compared to the open platform USB. > > > > "Ed H." <edo.h...@verizon.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 182 lines] > > -- > > If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - > > If you think I am so worng, fine what ever. You and Beryl are the > experts but I will never kiss your a.s like it is appearant that you > want. Now where exactly did I tell you to kiss my a.s or even claimed to be better than you. Don't worry, I'll wait while you look. > No Tom I do not tell "anyone" who disagress with me to "f.ck off" Oh, really. Then explain this: First you start off with - > > > Oh, and to prove my point about the fact tht I am not WRONG. For all > > > you "experts" go play with a PC using an Abit AN7 motherboard using > > > SATA HDD. --- Sounds like you are addressing everyone to me or at least everyone that claims to know PC's. Then you give a reason of - > > > Want to know why? Because Abit did not put the drivers for the SATA > > > Controller in the BIOS, or anywhere for that matter, so EVERYTIME you > > > want to change the drive or access a drive that is installed for ANY > > > REASON, you have to flash the drivers for the SATA controller. --- I don't agree with you here but you are entitled to your opinion. And then end it with - > > > Now, tell me I am wrong and I will tell you right now f.ck off, Sounds to me that you are saying this to everyone that doesn't agree with you, not just me. >I am telling you that, I will continue to tell beryl and snoball that. That's not how you wrote it but if you wish to remain so immature... > Read my postings with miles, theguy, roy, beekeep and others. Where > have I told them to f.ck off? Because in many of these posts they did not disagree with you. > See the problem is Tom and you are too > damn blind to see it, is that if you want to tell me I am wrong aobut > something do it, but know the particulars about the exact situation > before hand and don't attempt to do so by making statements like, > "You're an idiot and you don't know what you are talking about" Please point out exactly where I said this to you. You will not be able to do so because I never did. People can actually be wrong about something without being an idiot and can even be wrong about something that they know a lot about. In this subject you were wrong because you made the claim that it ALWAYS had to be done and that simply is not true. It may be true in a specific example but you made a blanket statement covering everything and that was invalid. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 265 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I'll take one thing back that I said to you Tom, you are not just like the cock sucker. At least you have enough diginty and respect for some one to address them by their name. > I've been in the business for over 20 years and have worked on > PC's from 8086 level to present What? No 8080's or Z80's? PDP 11's (Heath/Zenith)? How about System 370's? Any JCL or MC on those processors you dealt with? What was your first Computer? Mine was an OSI Superboard II although I worked on earlier SWTP 6800 development systems. > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > know far from everything. You got it wrong, big deal. I used to be like > that in here but learned that it simply isn't worth it. Oh, ok, you have been doing it 20+ years, and I haven't. You have done it on ALL these different types of systems. Yet, just because YOU have never had to do it, I must be wrong, that is what you are saying, just like beryl. If you have never had to do it, it must be wrong. Whatever. > > Whatever f.ck all that > > actually feel that way. I hate to say it but this group is going to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than I did, it takes two and if you don't respond, the conversation dies > quickly. It only happens if I let it huh? I will tell you to reference back to the sh.t that started in here months ago when this POS flat out blantantly attack me, I let that happen? I asked for it? Whatever. > > There used to be a difference between talking to eachother, flaming in > > jest and fun, such as with the Torque wrench debat and truly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > best of me when in reality, all I was doing was wasting my time and feeding > the trolls. Really, I do? Care to show me how and where I attack him every chance I get. Get your f.cking facts straight Tom, I have "attacked" him MAYBE a half dozen times, MAYBE! Once again, you spew sh.t that is not true and yet you have to gall to try and talk at me about it? Get real. > > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > saying, just like beryl. If you have never had to do it, it must be > wrong. Whatever. This is exactly what I'm talking about. You said that it always has to be done and since I have not had to do it so far, then you must be wrong about this. > > > Whatever f.ck all that > > > actually feel that way. I hate to say it but this group is going to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the sh.t that started in here months ago when this POS flat out > blantantly attack me, I let that happen? I asked for it? Whatever. Where are you comming up with this stuff? I didn't say that it was your fault or that you asked for it back then but if you continue to react so strongly, you will just encourage it to continue. > > > There used to be a difference between talking to eachother, flaming in > > > jest and fun, such as with the Torque wrench debat and truly [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > not true and yet you have to gall to try and talk at me about it? Get > real. Then lets just say that you give the appearance of attacking him just about every chance that you get and IIRC, that is when Beryl started on you to begin with and IIRC again, he claimed that what he was doing to you what you were doing to Snowball. This is the point that I keep trying to make and many ignore. When you attack somebody even when they are correct, it looks like you are just picking on them and reduces the effectiveness of when you point out when they are actually wrong. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you > point out when they are actually wrong. But, Larry is a adult and probably takes exception to people telling him how to deal with anybody. Everybody deals with each other as they see fit. Including ignoring some people. > >> > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > to deal with anybody. Everybody deals with each other as they see fit. > Including ignoring some people. You are correct but I hate to see the guy go down the path that I did for so long. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > like you are just picking on them and reduces the effectiveness of when you > point out when they are actually wrong. You know what Tom, screw you too. Sometimes you are no better then the a.shole berly and this is one of those times. You are talking out your a.s AGAIN about about sh.t. Firat I NEVER f.cking said that it had to be done all the the f.cking time, but what ever, you are the expert. Second of all, I "attacked" Snoman ONE f.cking TIME! and that is when this cock sucking c.nt started her/his/it's sh.t. ONCE Tom, if you think it is more, PROVE IT. If not f.ck YOU > > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 124 lines] > that is when this cock sucking c.nt started her/his/it's sh.t. ONCE > Tom, if you think it is more, PROVE IT. If not f.ck YOU The truth hurts, doesn't it Larry. I can think of at least three times with the last one being when your truck blew a tire. It really doesn't matter as I was just trying to give you an unbiased opinion as to what to do to shut Beryl and others up but like me, you are not going to listen. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 163 lines] > I was just trying to give you an unbiased opinion as to what to do to shut > Beryl and others up but like me, you are not going to listen. Wow Tom, you are starting to rank right up there with Beryl. You can think of three times huh? Point me to the thread if you think you are so right. In reference the "Blow Out" thread (you know, when I lost my tire) I did not attack him, I told him to f.ck off and to take his preaching about how the cause of the blow out was directly related to something that was my doing This is typical of him, the preaching, and you know it. So if that is an attack, fine, you're right (happy?). I do love the fact that Roy and others have been flat out going after Snoball for YEARS, in multiple groups but they are what, justified, allowed to. f.ck you if that is what you feel, if it is not "ok" for one, then how the hell is it "ok" for others. As for your unbiased opinions, I know you a little better than that Tom. Problem is, and you see it but don't want to admit to it, that no matter what I or others do, this piece of sh.t will not shut up. Example, Ed H comes back into the group after being gone regardless of reason and the bitch starts it's sh.t again. Why, because it is lonley and needs loving or whatever, who cares. Don't "preach" to me about attacking some one and sit there and say nothing to others that do it. > > > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 165 lines] > > Wow Tom, you are starting to rank right up there with Beryl. Gee, thanks. That's a nice thing to say. Perhaps you might want to point out even one instance where I called you names or attacked you or is it that anyone that even hints that you might be wrong about something is an a.shole? > You can think of three times huh? Point me to the thread if you think > you are so right. In reference the "Blow Out" thread (you know, when [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > preaching, and you know it. So if that is an attack, fine, you're > right (happy?). I know that I'm right this time and it is nothing to be happy or unhappy about. > I do love the fact that Roy and others have been flat > out going after Snoball for YEARS, in multiple groups but they are > what, justified, allowed to. f.ck you if that is what you feel, if it > is not "ok" for one, then how the hell is it "ok" for others. You need to take a chill pill dude. I have said to Roy and others as well that attacking the guy blindly serves no purpose but I guess that you see only what you want to see. > As for your unbiased opinions, I know you a little better than that > Tom. Problem is, and you see it but don't want to admit to it, that > no matter what I or others do, this piece of sh.t will not shut up. Am I saying that he will never post anything, nope. He will continue for a while but if you stop responding to him like a pissed off 5 year old, he will tire of it and move on. If he really bothers you, kill file him and he will dissapere like magic. Red used to do this to me after I corrected him on how a full time 4WD functioned in regards to a Subaru and he got on this tear to attack me whenever possible. I played the game for a while until I came to the conclusion that he really had nothing valis to say about anything and killfiled him, problem solved. > Example, Ed H comes back into the group after being gone regardless of > reason and the bitch starts it's sh.t again. And the minute Ed stopped replying to him, what happened? > Why, because it is > lonley and needs loving or whatever, who cares. Don't "preach" to me > about attacking some one and sit there and say nothing to others that > do it. I never said any such thing. You asked why he was picking on you and I gave you the reason and I didn't make it up. He said it himself way back in the beginning. I was talking about you this time but I have said it to others as well. I have no problem when someone who is wrong is corrected but when a person is attacked when they are correct, it is the ones making the attack that look like a.sholes and the ones to lose credibility and that goes for you, Roy, Max, and anyone else including myself. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Problem is, and you see it but don't want to admit to it, that >>no matter what I or others do, this piece of sh.t will not shut up. > > Am I saying that he will never post anything, nope. He will continue for a > while but if you stop responding to him like a pissed off 5 year old, he > will tire of it and move on. If he really bothers you, kill file him and he I think punkin just steered you off course. He jumped willingly into this thread to attack me. "Really! You really don't know sh.t than do you cock breath? News flash cock breath, when you recover from a HDD crash or failure and you are starting from fresh some thing will need to be flashed for the system to work properly again." > will dissapere like magic. Red used to do this to me after I corrected him > on how a full time 4WD functioned in regards to a Subaru and he got on this [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And the minute Ed stopped replying to him, what happened? Off course again. Edith posted a reply to me, I didn't start it with him. "I really do feel sorry for you, Beryl. You have a tremendous need to make an a.s out of yourself in order to draw attention." So those two dungheads, Edith and punkin, invited whatever came. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > > Problem is, and you see it but don't want to admit to it, that > >>no matter what I or others do, this piece of sh.t will not shut up. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Off course again. Edith posted a reply to me, I didn't start it with him. You didn't start with him? Bullshit you lying f.cking queer. He Ed, a.shole not Edith, made a post about why he had not been posting and you started right in on him, like you ALWAYS do. > "I really do feel sorry for you, Beryl. You have a tremendous need to > make an a.s out of yourself in order to draw attention." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in > a set of jumper cables? -- punkin punkin: >>>"azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > You didn't start with him? Nope. You're trying to rewrite history again, as always. > Bullshit you lying f.cking queer. He Ed, > a.shole not Edith, made a post about why he had not been posting and > you started right in on him, like you ALWAYS do. Nope. I quoted one excerpt from Edith's 'why he had not been posting' post below. >>"I really do feel sorry for you, Beryl. You have a tremendous need to >>make an a.s out of yourself in order to draw attention." >> >>So those two dungheads, Edith and punkin, invited whatever came. I don't know why TBone still bothers with you. He's one of the few who gives you straight talk. He still came back to help you with your faulty BIOS setting even after your rude replies to him. The ones you like, e.g. skippy and thedumbguy, don't do anything for you. They'll say what you want to hear so that you'll like them, that's all. You need outgrow them, and move on. >> Problem is, and you see it but don't want to admit to it, that >>>no matter what I or others do, this piece of sh.t will not shut up. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > So those two dungheads, Edith and punkin, invited whatever came. C'mon, you showed up looking for a problem. That's what ya do. Well that and burying your face in men's laps. Gee I guess that means you'll call me skippy, such a imagination. >> > > "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 165 lines] > >Wow Tom, you are starting to rank right up there with Beryl. actually tom is much better and not at all like sheryl. i have actually enjoyed him lately. but then i have enjoyed you too. the only wad around here lately has been sheryl but he is a hott to read nevertheless. >You can think of three times huh? Point me to the thread if you think >you are so right. In reference the "Blow Out" thread (you know, when [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >about attacking some one and sit there and say nothing to others that >do it. > Edith: >> "Beryl" <terrapin@coolbits.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > kinds of flashes have nothing to do with recovering from a hard drive > crash. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on your technical knowledge to keep my computers running. >> how many devices I needed to update, or the version I was starting at - >> some updates need a specific minimum version before you can install the >> next one. Your insults are patheticley boring because you frequently make >> assumptions in your desire to be an a.s. > > Thanks! Adobe Flash was the reasonable assumption. Dude, you make me laugh, literally. I forget your stated reason for being an a.s and don't really care. Because you post sophomoric comments with no intent of advancing the thread (it seems your only point is to prove that you are an a.s and to attempt to insult others) I can only conclude that you are the result of several generations of abuse. I don't think the dog is doing you much good, maybe you should find a good psychologist. Edith: > "Beryl" <terrapin@coolbits.net> wrote in message >>Edith: >>>"Beryl" <terrapin@coolbits.net> wrote in message >>>>>During the time of the "electrical questions" thread my computer >>>>>suffered a hard drive crash, it took me a few days to re-install the OS, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Fortunately, I don't have to rely on your technical knowledge to keep my > computers running. How many devices did you need to flash update, and why is that flash update code stored on your hard drive? SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > How many devices did you need to flash update, and why is that flash > update code stored on your hard drive? Your a moron. >> Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> update code stored on your hard drive? >Your a moron. that is a given. Edith: >>Edith: >>>"Beryl" <terrapin@coolbits.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Your a moron. You apparently don't know what flashing a device does. The update code goes into an EEPROM chip in the device itself, not onto your hard drive. You didn't lose the flashes when your hard drive broke, and you don't need to reinstall them. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin thats why your a moron. i never said i reinstalled them, nor did i say i store them on my harddrive. you assume often, which makes you're posts so stupidly funny. > Edith: >>>Edith: [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > You didn't lose the flashes when your hard drive broke, and you don't need > to reinstall them. Edith: > thats why your a moron. i never said i reinstalled them, nor did i say i > store them on my harddrive. you assume often, which makes you're posts so > stupidly funny. Yes, you did say you reinstalled "a few flash updates I had missed". "it took me a few days to re-install the OS, drivers, a few flash updates I had missed, restore from backup, etc." And punkin, the IT Tech, says it's necessary to flash "some thing" after a hard drive replacement. "when you recover from a HDD crash or failure and you are starting from fresh some thing will need to be flashed for the system to work properly again." So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work properly again. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin You don't read so well. I stated that I installed some flash updates that I had missed. I never said I re-installed them, moron. > Edith: >> thats why your a moron. i never said i reinstalled them, nor did i say i [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work > properly again. BTW, how many flash updates have you installed? Have you ever seen one that will let you re-load the version currently installed? I'm curious, because I want to avoid any manufacturer who allows that without some kind of override on the operators part (for instance to recover a corrupt PROM). > Edith: >> thats why your a moron. i never said i reinstalled them, nor did i say i [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work > properly again. Edith: > BTW, how many flash updates have you installed? I'd guess about three BIOS flashes on my first PC, an IBM 486DX/66. Then many BIOS flashes to my Asus A7V-133 board. Then several to my Abit NF7 board, probably three. And one to an old Compaq. A couple-or-so to my Pioneer DVD burner. One to my USR external modem. One to my iRiver iFP795 MP3 player. That's about 15, it was probably more. > Have you ever seen one that > will let you re-load the version currently installed? Of course, I imagine any flash can be repeated. Some people routinely flash a motherboard's BIOS twice as extra insurance that it "takes." The Asus board was the only one I redid with a currently installed version. I reflashed, then went back and forth and up and down between versions, tried everything to fix some corruption. It was ruining hard drives for some reason, I suspect something like the "Chernobyl" virus got to the BIOS chip. My WD and then a brand new Seagate were ruined. Scandisk couldn't fix errors that popped up, and then reformatting couldn't fix the drives. I saw the Chernobyl virus kill a PC on the appointed day, right before my eyes in a college computer lab. The machine hung on the first attempt to turn it on, and then the reboot finished it off. Half the PCs in the room got wiped out that day! Oh, I think I reflashed my modem again with the same already-installed update too. Two modems, lost track of which was which, did one twice and never did update the other one. > I'm curious, because > I want to avoid any manufacturer who allows that without some kind of > override on the operators part (for instance to recover a corrupt PROM). I wonder what you're talking about... You generally can't recover from a failed flash. Sometimes the right argument, or "switch", added to the command line will force it to work, http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jefn/bootblock.html has some good info on that. Or you might "hotflash" a chip in another running system. Or if the BIOS chip is soldered to the board like my old IBM's is, that's the end of your motherboard. Trash. Mess up flashing any peripheral, like your DVD drive, and it's probably trash. SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin > Edith: >> BTW, how many flash updates have you installed? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Have you ever seen one that will let you re-load the version currently >> installed? Nice snip, but I stated the need for the operator to override the update program's default to not re-flash. > Of course, I imagine any flash can be repeated. Some people routinely > flash a motherboard's BIOS twice as extra insurance that it "takes." Then they're just as moronic as you are. > The Asus board was the only one I redid with a currently installed > version. I reflashed, then went back and forth and up and down between [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Mess up flashing any peripheral, like your DVD drive, and it's probably > trash. I've been able to recover from a failed update, but then, most of the equipment I work with has a backup of the old version which can be recovered just in case something happens during an update to a newer version. Not all of them, but at least the mission critical machines do. Edith: >>Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> > Nice snip, I didn't snip anything, sh.t-4-brains. My answers were interspersed between yours, I answered your first two questions, and then "I wonder what you're talking about..." addresses the rest of your feeble thoughts below. > but I stated the need for the operator to override the update > program's default to not re-flash. Which is why I wonder what you're talking about. Why begin the flash if you intend to halt it? >>Of course, I imagine any flash can be repeated. Some people routinely >>flash a motherboard's BIOS twice as extra insurance that it "takes." > > Then they're just as moronic as you are. They can do whatever they want. Why did you ask the stupid question? >>The Asus board was the only one I redid with a currently installed >>version. I reflashed, then went back and forth and up and down between [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > just in case something happens during an update to a newer version. Not all > of them, but at least the mission critical machines do. Well whoopee! There's an inexpensive BIOS Savior available to anyone who wants that. http://www.overclockers.com/articles80/ SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin You're right, your long response was in the middle of my question. It merely had the effect of changing what I had written. I hope you have a wonderfull day with this knowledge. > Edith: >>>Edith: [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > wants that. > http://www.overclockers.com/articles80/ Edith: > You're right, your long response was in the middle of my question. > It merely had the effect of changing what I had written. I hope you > have a wonderfull day with this knowledge. What you had written was garbage. "BTW, how many flash updates have you installed?" Answerable so far. "Have you ever seen one that will let you re-load the version currently installed?" Getting sort of strange already. Um, yeah, they let me re-load the current version if I wanted to. "I'm curious, because I want to avoid any manufacturer who allows that without some kind of override on the operators part (for instance to recover a corrupt PROM)." Now WTF does that mean? You want to avoid any manufacturer who allows a flash to be repeated unless you can override it to recover with WHAT? Your mission-critical machines have BIOS backups that you can only use by beginning a reflash and overriding it? Are you talking about your own eMachines PC? >> Edith: >> [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >> Well whoopee! There's an inexpensive BIOS Savior available to >> anyone who wants that. http://www.overclockers.com/articles80/ SignatureHell, tell me this, what size is the cabling in a set of jumper cables? -- punkin At least you didn't use any profanity, but the sarcasm at the end is your usual, pathetic response. I will try this one more time. You first jumped on me for your incorrect assumption that I re-installed the same version of the BIOS. Then you stated that some people will re-flash the same version just to make sure it takes. I don't remember if it was you, but someone stated that if an update fails, the device most likely needs to be returned the the manufacturer or is ruined. A statement with which I agree. Whenever a device is re-flashed there is a possibility, however small, that the flash will fail. Therefore, I consider installing the same version of the firmware and unneccessary risk and people who do it are acting foolishly. It seems to me you are arguing both sides, but I think you just like to argue, while I like to point out your flawed arguments. I stated I don't like an update program which will allow me to install the same version of the firmware without some kind of override. To expand, it should tell me what version I have and what version I'm about to replace it with before I proceed. I have seen update packages that just go ahead and put whatever that package's version is onto the EEPROM without any information. In my opinion, that is a poor update and I don't like to own, or be responsible for hardware from a manufacturer like that. You split my statement so it appeared I was stating something else. Not hard to imagine that was deliberate, because despite some of the dumb things you post, I think you may be intelligent and you realized the only way to justify your continued attack on me is to change what I said. As for mission critical systems. We can loose any of our "office" equipment (by that I mean any service in a location which people are only using computers, telephones, copiers, etc) and our WAN segments for a few days. That's even written into our disaster recovery plan. The SCADA and telephone systems in our production locations must remain operational 24/7 except for a few short duration planned outages. Because I'm responsible for all of the above systems the kind of hardware and software we use and how well the manufacturer supports it is important to me. Where ever possible we use equipment which can be recovered from a failed flash. Some of them have redundant EEPROMs. I don't follow your question about how those can be recovered, however, it's irrelevant to the recovery method. > Edith: > [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] >>> Well whoopee! There's an inexpensive BIOS Savior available to >>> anyone who wants that. http://www.overclockers.com/articles80/ TBone, I tried. > At least you didn't use any profanity, but the sarcasm at the end is your > usual, pathetic response. I will try this one more time. [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] >>>> Well whoopee! There's an inexpensive BIOS Savior available to >>>> anyone who wants that. http://www.overclockers.com/articles80/ In this case I don't blame you. The previous post was well written, clearly explains your points from the previous posts, and I'm in complete agreement with what you said as I'm sure so is just about anyone with an IT background. I don't see any response from Beryl on this one and if he is half as intelligent as he appears at times, I doubt that he will, at least not in a sarcastic way and if he does... well. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > TBone, I tried. > [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > >>>> Well whoopee! There's an inexpensive BIOS Savior available to > >>>> anyone who wants that. http://www.overclockers.com/articles80/ > but someone stated that if an update fails, the device most likely needs to > be returned the the manufacturer or is ruined. A statement with which I > agree. Whenever a device is re-flashed there is a possibility, however > small, that the flash will fail. Thats partly true. Many motherboards made the past several years have the ability to reset themselves back to the original BIOS. They have both a PROM and a EEPROM. Moving a jumper and rebooting causes the PROM contents to be written back to the BIOS EEPROM. So if a flash hangs up causing a scrambled BIOS a quick jumper change gets things back running. > I stated I don't like an update program which will allow me to install the > same version of the firmware without some kind of override. AMI and Award both do that on more recent versions. Wasn't always the case though. Edith: > At least you didn't use any profanity, but the sarcasm at the end is your > usual, pathetic response. I will try this one more time. > > You first jumped on me Get it straight. You jumped, 6/21/07 21:11 "I noticed that you continue to make friends and sway opinion with your usual aplomb." "I really do feel sorry for you, Beryl. You have a tremendous need to make an a.s out of yourself in order to draw attention. I would suggest you get a dog, but I think a cat may be more appropriate as a dog requires your attention and a cat requires little." > for your incorrect assumption that I re-installed the > same version of the BIOS. I assumed flash was Flash with a capital F, on your hard drive right along with each of the other things you listed in the same sentence which went on your hard drive. > Then you stated that some people will re-flash the > same version just to make sure it takes. That's what they said they do. You asked about re-loading an already existing version, that's an example of doing that. It might not be a bad idea at all, if the data is overwritten. If the existing data is wiped first, then rewritten, then there's no point to it. > I don't remember if it was you, > but someone stated that if an update fails, the device most likely needs to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > acting foolishly. It seems to me you are arguing both sides, but I think > you just like to argue, while I like to point out your flawed arguments. There was no "both sides"! I was talking about a failed flash, the procedure, such as a screen that tells you to "Please wait, do not power off the computer" and after about 5 minutes of nothing happening you naturally try to reboot the computer. That doesn't mean a bad firmware version. The installer probably failed. If you did successfully flash a crappy version, though, what's the added risk in doing it again? Not much, unless the process fails. > I stated I don't like an update program which will allow me to install the > same version of the firmware without some kind of override. To expand, it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > information. In my opinion, that is a poor update and I don't like to own, > or be responsible for hardware from a manufacturer like that. Then you'll hate Abit for their NF7 boards. They made two boards with confusingly similar names: the NF7-S v.2, and the NF7-S2. Very different BIOSes, the cheaper -S2 board doesn't have the overclocking options that the enthusiast -S has. And the -S2 BIOS will flash right onto the -S board's chip with no warning, ruining it! Lots of NF7 owners have downloaded the wrong BIOS file and made that mistake. I have a plain NF7 v.2, not the "-S" model, but it uses the very same BIOS as the NF7-S. Abit didn't make that very clear either. But Abit is abit now, with a lower case a. > You split my > statement so it appeared I was stating something else. Not hard to imagine > that was deliberate, because despite some of the dumb things you post, I > think you may be intelligent and you realized the only way to justify your > continued attack on me is to change what I said. Wrong. I couldn't figure out what you said. You see how TBone and miles post? Details, specifics, that tells me they must know what they're talking about. You gave vague statements and followed them up with "you're a moron" whenever I replied. > As for mission critical systems. We can loose any of our "office" equipment > (by that I mean any service in a location which people are only using [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of them have redundant EEPROMs. I don't follow your question about how > those can be recovered, however, it's irrelevant to the recovery method. My question was WHY would you want to override anything? I still don't know. I have three official NF7 BIOS versions saved on my drive, and two hacked versions. Five different files. I pick the one I want beforehand, and that's all. There's nothing for me to override to end up with the version I want. I still have six Asus A7V BIOSes, I used to do the same with them. There was nothing to override after the flash began. The only kind of override I can figure out is adding some switches to the flash command to force a more "thorough" reflash, I posted a link to http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jefn/bootblock.html about that, and you didn't have anything to day about it. All I've seen are vague statements and "You're a moron." > BTW, how many flash updates have you installed? I have installed hundreds of the damn things and some made the situation worse. > Have you ever seen one that > will let you re-load the version currently installed? Yep, and I've seen a few that will let you install previous versions although they do ask first and thank god that they did (allow me to install previous). > I'm curious, because I want to avoid any manufacturer who allows that without some kind of > override on the operators part (for instance to recover a corrupt PROM). Since it would be impossible to recover from a corrupt PROM short of replacing the chip, what exactly is your point? Did you mean to say EEPROM and if so, many times that cannot be recovered from either without chip being removed and placed in an independent writer to be reloaded properly. Good flash software does a CRC check on the data file prior to writing to make sure that the file is not corrupt, checks for imbedded information to make sure that it is valid for the device being flashed, compares the version being loaded with what is already in the chip and takes appropriate action, and reads the data back from the chip prior to the restart to make sure that the data was written properly while the chip can still be accesses. But even with all of this, things can still go wrong such as a power interruption while updating the chip. > > Edith: > >> thats why your a moron. i never said i reinstalled them, nor did i say i [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work > > properly again. >> BTW, how many flash updates have you installed? > >I have installed hundreds of the damn things and some made the situation >worse. man, i hear you there. geez, i remember when the amd was using the via chipset. issuing new bios flashes every other day, each one worse than the last one. >> Have you ever seen one that >> will let you re-load the version currently installed? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> > So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work >> > properly again. > man, i hear you there. geez, i remember when the amd was using the > via chipset. issuing new bios flashes every other day, each one worse > than the last one. Never had any problems with VIA chipsets myself. Worst was SIS. >> man, i hear you there. geez, i remember when the amd was using the >> via chipset. issuing new bios flashes every other day, each one worse >> than the last one. > > Never had any problems with VIA chipsets myself. Worst was SIS. me either in fact the computer im running now has the VIA chipset. this old AMD 1100 is running strong with no issues, and no chipset updates Signature____________________________________________ Chris 05 CTD 06 Liberty CRD PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, I call of of them PROM, it's an old habit. Sorry I stepped on your toes. >> BTW, how many flash updates have you installed? > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> > So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work >> > properly again. > PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, I call of of them PROM, it's an old habit. Sorry I > stepped on your toes. What about PWOM (Programmable Write Only Memory). LOL! SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, I call of of them PROM, it's an old habit. Sorry I > > stepped on your toes. > > What about PWOM (Programmable Write Only Memory). LOL, no toes stepped on here. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > PROM, EPROM, EEPROM, I call of of them PROM, it's an old habit. Sorry I > stepped on your toes. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > >> > So please describe what needed to be reflashed for your system to work > >> > properly again. You would love my 10 station Battery Tender. I can keep 10 batteries hooked up and fresh...but it was not cheap at all. Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks again. > Craig C. |
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