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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / August 2007Any MA inspection techs here? PCM swap/VIN?
Hi Folks Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections i Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modde OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through an similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts This subject is probably nowhere near as complicated as I'm making i out to be here but I have a couple of PCM swap questions that I can' seem to resolve. The project - Put a 5spd NV trans in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. I figure th easiest way is to use a PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram. Done extensive Googling on the subject and done search/FAQ on abou two dozen Dodge/Jeep/Mopar forums. I've found out a lot but the inf doesn't always agree from site to site and/or I'm not sure if othe people's experience applies to the type of emissions inspections w do here Just came back from the place I got my sticker last time and h couldn't answer all of my questions off the top of his head becaus he had never seen anything similar done. (my vehicle is still stoc at the moment The answers to all of these individual questions aren't as importan as the whole idea of whether it can be done or not and how and wha actually comes into play So, the main questions 1 - Do all states have the same emissions/inspection requirements a Massachusetts now that OBDII is around? If not, what other state do 2 - The emission inspection machines in MA reads the VIN through th OBDII port, correct? Does the tech also have to manually enter th VIN and/or verify that it agrees with the PCM VIN 3 - Any CEL/code will automatically fail a vehicle through th machine, yes 4 - If a vehicle has CEL/codes due to the missing auto trans is ther any option in the machine for the tech to override or ignore th failure that wouldn't really apply since it wouldn't have th automatic in it anymore 5 - The best way around this is to use the PCM from a 5.9/5spd Ram 6 - Can a new VIN be flashed into a used PCM or not? Chrysler deale says they can't do it but I'm not sure if that's a "they won' do it" issue or a "they actually can't do it" issue Someone said the "Enter VIN" option doesn't come up on th DRB if the PCM already has a VIN 7 - If the VINs can't be easily overwritten, used PCMs wouldn't hav any value right? Maybe for use in non-inspection states 8 - Do any digits in my vehicle's VIN specify the transmission type (I don't think so) If they do - Maybe I'm getting too crazy here does that figure of the VIN actually have any input as to how the PC operates, or is the VIN flash just an internal "label" 9 - Do any other scanners have the ability to overwrite VINs or delet them 10 - I know B&G charges $130 for VIN flash and $430 for a custo flash. Is overwriting the VIN considered custom? 11 - Can my 5.9/auto trans PCM be reflashed deep enough to eliminat the "looking for auto trans" inputs? I talked to B& about this swap but it was at about 4:59 on a Friday. I didn't hav the heart to keep them there answering questions about a swap tha probably had them questioning my sanity anyway :- 12 - Do the Ram trucks have BCMs and is that a factor in this swap 13 - The alarm/disable issue - (VTSS?) I've heard the PCM from factory alarm vehicle can only go into another factory alarm vehicle A "non-alarm" PCM can go into either one I'll try B&G again sometime soon but figured I'd post here firs to see if anyone had any experience with similar swaps in Mass Besides, I think most performance flashes are designated "Fo off road use only" so they may not take these inspection issue into account Like I said, so much info/so many conflicting answers. I know ther can be issues with the seatbelt warning lights and/or the ABS light etc, others say that's not a problem as long as the PCM has any VI number in it The nuts and bolts of the swap isn't that crazy but I don't want t start buying parts til I solve the last few issues Thanks for any replies - Joh > Hi Folks, > > Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections in > Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modded > OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through any > similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts. The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the inspections and either manually enter data or put the sniffer inanother car or truck. > Roy wrote > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does th inspections and > either manually enter data or put the sniffer inanother car o truck. Thanks Roy That's old school. Been there, done that Won't work in this case though. They plug the inspection machin rihgt into the OBDII port under the dash Not only does it pick up any fault codes but it reads the VIN an that has to match the VIN on the registration I think I can use the Dodge 5spd PCM as long as I can put my VIN int it Thanks again - Joh > > Roy wrote: > > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > That's old school. Been there, done that. Showing my age I guess. > Won't work in this case though. They plug the inspection machine > rihgt into the OBDII port under the dash. IIrc they did not do this last Nov. on my truck. Roy Your truck was a diesel and I'm not sure if there is an emissions inspection for diesels there. There isn't here in NC, just the safety inspection for diesel and older vehicles.  SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > > Roy wrote: > > > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Roy There is. I was up there last year. Not only are fags legal and very open, but the kennedy mentality of what we say isn't what we do, but you had better, is all over. Hence socialism is rampant. Unless you're rich you can't afford to live there. > Your truck was a diesel and I'm not sure if there is an emissions > inspection [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> >> Roy >> > Roy wrote: >> > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Roy Maybe they are like Maryland and senior citizens are exempt! beekeep > > Roy wrote: > > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks again - John Ever considered switching your PCM to "extremely high voltage diagnostic operation"? Those opto-isolators gotta give up at some point :) I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm not a professional service technician, which makes me curious, do any vehicles us opto-isolators? >> > Roy wrote: >> > The way around it I believe is to find a friend who does the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Those opto-isolators gotta give up at some point :) > I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I > don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm > not a professional service technician, which makes me curious, do any > vehicles us opto-isolators? Like the "photo-optic LED triggering system" found in Mallory Unilite distributors? SignatureKen >> I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I >> don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Like the "photo-optic LED triggering system" found in Mallory Unilite > distributors? Oh yeah, there is that. I had tunnel vision on ODBII. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opto-isolator These things are pretty neat. If the device is properly designed you only have to replace the chip (or the board with the chip on it, depending on how its engineered) to get the circuit to work again if it encounters something severely out of spec. > I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I don't > see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm not a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> Those opto-isolators gotta give up at some point :) > Z88Z wrote > Hi Folks > > Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections i Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modde OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through an similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts > This subject is probably nowhere near as complicated as I'm makin it out to be here but I have a couple of PCM swap questions that can't seem to resolve. > The project - Put a 5spd NV trans in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. I figur the easiest way is to use a PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram. > Done extensive Googling on the subject and done search/FAQ on abou two dozen Dodge/Jeep/Mopar forums. I've found out a lot but the inf doesn't always agree from site to site and/or I'm not sure if othe people's experience applies to the type of emissions inspections w do here > Just came back from the place I got my sticker last time and h couldn't answer all of my questions off the top of his head becaus he had never seen anything similar done. (my vehicle is still stoc at the moment > The answers to all of these individual questions aren't a important as the whole idea of whether it can be done or not and ho and what actually comes into play > So, the main questions > 1 - Do all states have the same emissions/inspection requirement as Massachusetts now that OBDII is around? If not, what other state do > 2 - The emission inspection machines in MA reads the VIN throug the OBDII port, correct? Does the tech also have to manually ente the VIN and/or verify that it agrees with the PCM VIN > 3 - Any CEL/code will automatically fail a vehicle through th machine, yes > 4 - If a vehicle has CEL/codes due to the missing auto trans i there any option in the machine for the tech to override or ignor the failure that wouldn't really apply since it wouldn't have th automatic in it anymore > 5 - The best way around this is to use the PCM from a 5.9/5sp Ram > 6 - Can a new VIN be flashed into a used PCM or not? Chrysle dealer says they can't do it but I'm not sure if that's a "the won't do it" issue or a "they actually can't do it issue. Someone said the "Enter VIN" option doesn't come u on the DRB if the PCM already has a VIN > 7 - If the VINs can't be easily overwritten, used PCMs wouldn' have any value right? Maybe for use in non-inspection states > 8 - Do any digits in my vehicle's VIN specify the transmissio type? (I don't think so) If they do - Maybe I'm getting too craz here - does that figure of the VIN actually have any input as to ho the PCM operates, or is the VIN flash just an interna "label" > 9 - Do any other scanners have the ability to overwrite VINs o delete them > 10 - I know B&G charges $130 for VIN flash and $430 for custom flash. Is overwriting the VIN considered custom? > 11 - Can my 5.9/auto trans PCM be reflashed deep enough t eliminate the "looking for auto trans" inputs? I talked t B&G about this swap but it was at about 4:59 on a Friday. didn't have the heart to keep them there answering questions about swap that probably had them questioning my sanity anyway :- > 12 - Do the Ram trucks have BCMs and is that a factor in thi swap > 13 - The alarm/disable issue - (VTSS?) I've heard the PCM from factory alarm vehicle can only go into another factory alarm vehicle A "non-alarm" PCM can go into either one > I'll try B&G again sometime soon but figured I'd post her first to see if anyone had any experience with similar swaps in Mass Besides, I think most performance flashes are designated "For of road use only" so they may not take these inspection issues int account > Like I said, so much info/so many conflicting answers. I know ther can be issues with the seatbelt warning lights and/or the ABS light etc, others say that's not a problem as long as the PCM has any VI number in it > The nuts and bolts of the swap isn't that crazy but I don't want t start buying parts til I solve the last few issues > Thanks for any replies - Joh Like I said Roy, have to admit I've done that once or twice back in the day. We must be from the same era :-) I want to do this swap right so I don't have to fudge anything. I don't think you said what state you are in. In MA they do safety every year and emissions every other year. That's why this gets kinda crazy. I don't think all the people giving advice necessarily have to deal with the same inspection requirements and practices. For instance, a reply elsewhere said that in PA the VIN is printed as a bar code on the vehicles registration card too. They do the OBDII check and also use a bar code scanner on the registration. If they don't match it will fail. Besides, I'm not sure all states even do emissions testing. Talked to B&G Performance and another guy today. B&G is pretty sure they can help me either way - They can rewrite my Jeep 5.9/auto PCM so it doesn't have auto trans parameters at all or they can rewrite the VIN on a Dodge 5.9/5spd Ram PCM. They would have to write custom parameters into either PCM to make it work so I'm looking at a $430 custom flash instead of a $130 VIN flash. If I have to go that route I'll use B&G. I talked to another shop in MA that does offroad builds. He said he really didn't have any familiarity with that kind of stuff but he did bring up a good point. He said (if I was right) that if the machine kicks it back because it doesn't agree with the VIN or because the tech can't confirm it, then in theory they have made it illegal in MA to use a used PCM. I still think there must be scanners out there that will delete or overwrite the VIN on a used PCM. If I go ahead with this I think I will try the Ram PCM as it is first, see if all the other stuff agrees, the ABS/seatbelt etc lights. Then take it to any station that does inspections and have them run it through the OBDII stuff and see what comes of it. Hi TBone, Not sure who you meant about having a diesel, me or Roy? The only diesels I drive weigh about 200K :-) When I get definite answers I'll post the info. Til then I have a few other questions I'll be posting. Thanks folks - John > > Z88Z wrote: > > Hi Folks, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I don't think you said what state you are in. MA for about 50 years. Now in FL, will be back in MA next month. > In MA they do safety > every year and emissions every other year. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Hi TBone, > Not sure who you meant about having a diesel, me or Roy? That would be me. > The only > diesels I drive weigh about 200K :-) Are they powered by EMD? Roy > When I get definite answers I'll post the info. Til then I have a few > other questions I'll be posting. > > Thanks folks - John > > > > > We must be from the same era :- > > > > > > > > MA for about 50 years. Now in FL, will be back in MA nex month > > > Z88Z wrote > > > > > > Yup, same age group :- > > > I love Florida. Born/raised in MA, moved to Orlando in 90' then to the West Palm Beach area to be near my sister and folks fro 91' to 94' > > > My daughter was born in WPB a few months before we moved bac up here to MA > > > Found great info on this site below. Didn't really answer an of my questions but it explained the basics > > > http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/faqs.htm > > > > > > 96 and later OBDII AWD vehicles use the machine only (I gues 2WD use the machine and a roller stand for a "driving test > > > 83 to 96 - sniffer test only. > > > Diesels - No test > > > 83 and earlier gas vehicles - No test > > > > > > The only diesels I drive weigh about 200K :- ""Roy"Are they powered by EMD We have switch engines with of about 1,000 to 1,500 HP and "roa switchers" with about 3K HP that are EMDs (just a big Chevy! Our passenger road units are about 3K HP GEs We also just got EMD switchers that were rebuilt with Caterpilla engines The best are the all electric engines - 7K to 8K HP although 1 typ has been derated to 4 or 5K HP In fact, I have to go run some of those right now Take care - Joh > > > > > > We must be from the same era :-) > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > In fact, I have to go run some of those right now! You must work for Amtrak at South Hampton Street. Roy > Take care - John > balsofsteele@gmail.com wrote > Ever considered switching your PCM to "extremely high voltag diagnostic operation" > Those opto-isolators gotta give up at some point : Umm, I'm not familiar with that concept. Is that one of those things like, the relativity cadenza modul gasket is bad.... or as a friend used to say "the beau gea jumped the heifer shaft? Beekeep Are senior citizens in Maryland exempt from having their car inspected or are senior cars in Maryland exempt from having thei citizens inspected? Or are senior cars exempt from the inspection Sorry, it's Friday! LOL :- > > balsofsteele@gmail.com wrote: > > Ever considered switching your PCM to "extremely high voltage [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Umm, I'm not familiar with that concept. An opto-isolator (aka optical isolator) is a bridge between 2 devices which uses light, instead of voltage, to transmit the state of a circuit across the bridge. They are useful in applications in which you want to ensure current won't arc across the bridge (i.e. a water slide flow rate gauge connected to a 220V AC pump. > Is that one of those things like, the relativity cadenza module > gasket is bad.... or as a friend used to say "the beau gear [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sorry, it's Friday! LOL :-) > > > Hi Folks > > > > > > Looking for info from anyone that does emission inspections i Massachusetts, especially if they have any experience with modde OBDII vehicles, or input from anyone that has been through an similar transmission/PCM OBDII swaps in Massachusetts > > > This subject is probably nowhere near as complicated as I' making it out to be here but I have a couple of PCM swap question that I can't seem to resolve. > > > The project - Put a 5spd NV trans in my 98 5.9 ZJ Jeep. figure the easiest way is to use a PCM from a 98 5.9 5spd Ram. > > > Done extensive Googling on the subject and done search/FAQ o about two dozen Dodge/Jeep/Mopar forums. I've found out a lot but th info doesn't always agree from site to site and/or I'm not sure i other people's experience applies to the type of emission inspections we do here > > > Just came back from the place I got my sticker last time and h couldn't answer all of my questions off the top of his head because h had never seen anything similar done. (my vehicle is still stock a the moment > > > The answers to all of these individual questions aren't a important as the whole idea of whether it can be done or not and ho and what actually comes into play > > > So, the main questions > > > 1 - Do all states have the same emissions/inspectio requirements as Massachusetts now that OBDII is around? If not, wha other states do > > > 2 - The emission inspection machines in MA reads the VI through the OBDII port, correct? Does the tech also have to manuall enter the VIN and/or verify that it agrees with the PCM VIN > > > 3 - Any CEL/code will automatically fail a vehicle through th machine, yes > > > 4 - If a vehicle has CEL/codes due to the missing auto trans i there any option in the machine for the tech to override or ignore th failure that wouldn't really apply since it wouldn't have th automatic in it anymore > > > 5 - The best way around this is to use the PCM from a 5.9/5sp Ram > > > 6 - Can a new VIN be flashed into a used PCM or not? Chrysle dealer says they can't do it but I'm not sure if that's a "the won't do it" issue or a "they actually can't do it issue. Someone said the "Enter VIN" option doesn't come u on the DRB if the PCM already has a VIN > > > 7 - If the VINs can't be easily overwritten, used PCMs wouldn' have any value right? Maybe for use in non-inspection states > > > 8 - Do any digits in my vehicle's VIN specify the transmissio type? (I don't think so) If they do - Maybe I'm getting too craz here - does that figure of the VIN actually have any input as to ho the PCM operates, or is the VIN flash just an interna "label" > > > 9 - Do any other scanners have the ability to overwrite VINs o delete them > > > 10 - I know B&G charges $130 for VIN flash and $430 for custom flash. Is overwriting the VIN considered custom? > > > 11 - Can my 5.9/auto trans PCM be reflashed deep enough t eliminate the "looking for auto trans" inputs? I talked t B&G about this swap but it was at about 4:59 on a Friday. didn't have the heart to keep them there answering questions about swap that probably had them questioning my sanity anyway :- > > > 12 - Do the Ram trucks have BCMs and is that a factor in thi swap > > > 13 - The alarm/disable issue - (VTSS?) I've heard the PCM fro a factory alarm vehicle can only go into another factory alar vehicle. A "non-alarm" PCM can go into either one > > > I'll try B&G again sometime soon but figured I'd post her first to see if anyone had any experience with similar swaps in Mass Besides, I think most performance flashes are designated "For of road use only" so they may not take these inspection issues int account > > > Like I said, so much info/so many conflicting answers. I kno there can be issues with the seatbelt warning lights and/or the AB lights etc, others say that's not a problem as long as the PCM ha any VIN number in it > > > The nuts and bolts of the swap isn't that crazy but I don' want to start buying parts til I solve the last few issues. > > > Thanks for any replies - John I note the :) at the end of you post, but opto-isolators and ODBII? I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I have only seen copper. I'm not a professional service technician, which makes me curious, do any vehicles us opto-isolators? Sorry, You mean that's a real thing and he wasn't pulling my leg? Sounded like some of the made up stuff we used to say to confuse the non-mechanics around us. Gotta admit if it's a real thing I've never even heard of it. I'll Google it later as I have to run out now. All I can say is, whatever an opto-isolator is, it sounds expensive! :-) |
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