Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / October 2007
12v power
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Midlant - 25 Oct 2007 05:03 GMT I drove a friends Ford, 2005 I think. It took off like a raped ape hot rod, not a truck. Both trucks are diesels. He drove mine and was shocked at how much difference there was. Is this normal or is my 12V in sad shape? It doesn't get down and dirty, but does eventually accelerate...reminds me of the old Volvo's. They don't accelerate. They just eventually gain momentum. John
Tom Lawrence - 25 Oct 2007 08:03 GMT > Is this normal or is my 12V in sad shape? It doesn't get down and dirty, > but does eventually accelerate...reminds me of the old Volvo's. They don't > accelerate. They just eventually gain momentum. You're comparing your 180HP/420ft.lb. engine against his 325HP/570ft.lb. engine. With nearly double the horsepower, it's no wonder his truck runs away from yours.
Ask him what kind of mileage numbers he's getting, however :)
Midlant - 25 Oct 2007 23:42 GMT I happened to think about that today. It hit me that hp numbers are totally different. I'm getting 18 and he says he's getting 20. Sometimes I get 20, but my last fill up was 18mpg. John
>> Is this normal or is my 12V in sad shape? It doesn't get down and >> dirty, but does eventually accelerate...reminds me of the old [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ask him what kind of mileage numbers he's getting, however :) Midlant - 26 Oct 2007 03:08 GMT Why do people bomb the 12V and spend the money on upgraded tranny's instead of just buying a new truck that alreay is made to withstand 200 more hp? What would it take for me to get 350hp other than buying a new truck that comes stock with that power? John
Tom Lawrence - 26 Oct 2007 03:31 GMT > Why do people bomb the 12V and spend the money on upgraded tranny's > instead of just buying a new truck that alreay is made to withstand 200 > more hp? Fuel plate - $200 Injectors - $900 Bigger turbo - $500 - $1,000 Intake/Exhaust mods - $ 500 Tranny upgrades - $3,000 - $5,000
Total out of pocket - $5,000 - $7,500 New truck $35,000
> What would it take for me to get 350hp other than buying a new truck that > comes stock with that power? Take the cash indicated above, and spread it around these two places, among a host of others:
http://www.piersdiesel.com http://www.atsdiesel.com
Midlant - 26 Oct 2007 03:36 GMT "Tom Lawrence" <>
> Total out of pocket - $5,000 - $7,500 > New truck $35,000 I can't afford a new truck, that's for sure, but I was speaking in terms of newer vice new. Sell mine for $9k or something, then buy a new truck that has that power already. I haven't priced a newer truck to find out what a used one is going for so I may be out of the ball park. Maybe, I'll just keep enjoying my truck as it is. Thanks again, Tom. John
Nosey - 26 Oct 2007 05:03 GMT > "Tom Lawrence" <> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ball park. Maybe, I'll just keep enjoying my truck as it is. Thanks > again, Tom. John Cheap power for the 12 valve: http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=93017
 Signature Ken
Midlant - 27 Oct 2007 01:08 GMT > Cheap power for the 12 valve: > http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=93017 Thanks. What's a GSK?
Tom Lawrence - 27 Oct 2007 01:16 GMT > What's a GSK? Governor Spring Kit
Midlant - 27 Oct 2007 03:28 GMT >> What's a GSK? > > Governor Spring Kit Thanks Tom. I read the posted url link but not sure what the writer was describing. I'm thinking there is a series of adjustments or add-ons that need to be done together to form a cohesive power upgrade without any harmful effects.
John
Tom Lawrence - 27 Oct 2007 05:28 GMT > I'm thinking there is a series of adjustments or add-ons that need to be > done together to form a cohesive power upgrade without any harmful > effects. Absolutely correct... adding power requires modification to several different components. For example, tweak injection pump and upgrade injectors to get more flow... need a better lift pump to deliver the extra fuel, need a better turbo to build more boost to add to that extra fuel, need a better intake/intercooler to cool down the boosted intake charge, need a bigger/freer-flowing exhaust to take away the extra heat/exhaust gases. Powertrains need to be strengthened to deal with the extra torque. It keeps going.
Midlant - 27 Oct 2007 13:59 GMT >> I'm thinking there is a series of adjustments or add-ons that need to >> be done together to form a cohesive power upgrade without any harmful [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > extra heat/exhaust gases. Powertrains need to be strengthened to deal > with the extra torque. It keeps going. Buying a "newer" truck that comes stock, already built to handle 200 extra hp is sounding more attractive all the time. With one exception, keeping my truck until the wheels fall off and resigning myself that the truck just doesn't have the grunt everyone says it has.
Roy - 27 Oct 2007 15:23 GMT >>> I'm thinking there is a series of adjustments or add-ons that need to be >>> done together to form a cohesive power upgrade without any harmful [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > my truck until the wheels fall off and resigning myself that the truck > just doesn't have the grunt everyone says it has. You also have to factor in the tax, increase in insurance cost and so on of a newer or new truck. Also along with the newer truck come a whole bunch of expensive electronic stuff. You might want to take your truck to a Cummins facility and have them put it on the dyno and see what they come up with. You might be down on power due to a real simple cause.
I learned some time ago that if you really want to go fast you do it in a car. A truck is a truck, is a truck, it may be powerful but it is a truck. If I had it to do over again, I should have kept my 94 12V.
But it always seems to come down to "want" rather than "need".
Midlant - 27 Oct 2007 18:21 GMT Miricle of miricles...ok, pretty simple fix really. I'm rather embarrsed while scratching my head. I'll get to this and the fix in a moment...
Local Cummins seemed much more in tune than the Dodge guys as they didn't know what was wrong, what couuld be wrong, and not sure where to start. Cummins didn't want $95 to throw it on machine as Dodge did. It doesn't need a machine. it's needs a real mech who knows the engine as it has to be a simple fix, just because of the symptons. I'm not a mech, but do repair things and know the difference between something major and something minor. It's just a gut feeling and the symptons.
Cummins said $90, then 50 to hook it to a computer then time to read it and it came out to $240 just to see if there was anything wrong. No thanks.
I heard our area (Virginia Beach) finally has a diesel place that is about power, not big rig repairs. Went there this morning. The man who looked at my truck drives the same thing as well as a newer dually and is in the Navy as a Nuc Mach Mate. We speak the same language.
I told him what I noteced and thought, the overflow valve replaced, etc... We went for a ride. It wasn't too bad and he liked it for the most part. I said the throttle plate is slid all teh way forward. He didn't like that as the power wasn't there for that simple mod. I asked him if his foot was on the firewall or in a more normal position like his truck. That got his attention. Back tot eh garage. Throttle has a lottle of play in it. Yep. that's why I said I'm not getting WOT. Didn't take long from there. I told him Dodge had done a recall to replace the throttle cable but it looked different than the new one I had already replaced on it (new style). The one they put on wasn't the old style or the new style. It's different.
He made a quick spacer to take the slack behind the pedal. Lo an d behold, the truck runs like it did when I forst bought it. I'm putting the old cable back in.
(if you're confused, the original cable frayed and Dodge had a new one out. Dealer said no recall even though NHTSA said there was. I bought the new one, repalced it myself and called Dodge. A friends brother worked for them in their main hq in their quality dept. That helped. The faxed me the paperwork to give to the dealer for the recall and sent me a check to pay for the cable I bought. Dealer put the new cable on and gave me my new cable back. Sweet!
Now the embarassment. I never noticed a loss of power or slack in the throttle from that time. I did notice that over a year to two years time, power was slipping away. I thought my truck was dying.
Nope. Overflow valve spring broken and now throttle cable bad. It's running really sweet now. I've got power! My foot isn't embedded into the firewall trying to get it to move. To be honest, with the slack in the cable, I didn't notice my foot sinking into the floor before power came on. Seemed pretty normal. Now my foot barely moves and i'm honking 60. Pretty easy to pass on the freeway now, as well as take off from a dead stop.
I did feel blessed and that God was allowing me to play a little so I am going to put in 3k gsk, kdp fix, 3 pod gauge set, timing checked and tweaked, and a #8 TST plate installed. He's going to do that in 2 weeks (he's only free weekends, Scott, not the business). I thought about a #6 plate but looking at TST's site, the #8 seems best for tranny life. A #10 isn't rec'd for some reason. I know I've read online that taking a 10 and then grinding is fun, but TST says 10's are n/a.
Anyways, there it is in long form.
Short form? Stretched (or wrong throttle cable installed by dealer.)
John
BigIronRam - 27 Oct 2007 18:40 GMT > Miricle of miricles...ok, pretty simple fix really. I'm rather embarrsed > while scratching my head. I'll get to this and the fix in a moment... [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > John Did you get the recall part? CANZ900?
Midlant - 27 Oct 2007 22:38 GMT .
>> Short form? Stretched (or wrong throttle cable installed by dealer.) >> >> John > > Did you get the recall part? CANZ900? I bought cable 4897407AA M02A Cable P for $49.88 on May 30, 2000.
I can't find the recall package. I can't believe that was 7 years ago. The cable must be stretching. I still have the one I bought. It's going back on soon. The temp fix is working fine though. The truck is fun driving again. Funny when something slowly goes, you really don't notice it until it's gone.
John
Nosey - 28 Oct 2007 00:05 GMT > . >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > John This one? http://dodgeram.info/tsb/recalls/970.htm
 Signature Ken
Midlant - 28 Oct 2007 03:19 GMT >>>> Short form? Stretched (or wrong throttle cable installed by >>>> dealer.) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > This one? > http://dodgeram.info/tsb/recalls/970.htm Yes. That's the one.
BigIronRam - 28 Oct 2007 03:23 GMT > . >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > John You might find this interesting?
http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/T_Cable/diesel_tc.htm
The recall cable ( I hope I recalled the number correctly) is supposed to be the "new" design, hopefully it's been incorporated into the normal replacement parts. The recall package was also cheap, around $20 six or seven years ago when I got mine.
Max Dodge - 27 Oct 2007 17:42 GMT Put a shift kit in the trans and you'll feel the power you have being delivered more effectively. Put in a lower stall TC and then the grunt works more effectively. This is far cheaper than going nuts on power accessories and finding that you break the drivetrain more often.
 Signature Max
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, he is not entitled to his own facts." Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York
>> I'm thinking there is a series of adjustments or add-ons that need to be >> done together to form a cohesive power upgrade without any harmful [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > heat/exhaust gases. Powertrains need to be strengthened to deal with the > extra torque. It keeps going. Tom Lawrence - 27 Oct 2007 20:00 GMT > more effectively. This is far cheaper than going nuts on power accessories > and finding that you break the drivetrain more often. Yeah... pulling transmissions every time they break gets old REAL quick :)
Max Dodge - 27 Oct 2007 22:51 GMT >> more effectively. This is far cheaper than going nuts on power >> accessories and finding that you break the drivetrain more often. > > Yeah... pulling transmissions every time they break gets old REAL quick > :) I don't wanna hear it... you have a lift and a nice garage all to yourself.
 Signature Max
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, he is not entitled to his own facts." Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York
Midlant - 27 Oct 2007 22:42 GMT > Put a shift kit in the trans and you'll feel the power you have being > delivered more effectively. Put in a lower stall TC and then the grunt > works more effectively. This is far cheaper than going nuts on power > accessories and finding that you break the drivetrain more often. I'll do that at next rebuild. I'm approaching 90k on this rebuild. The guy who worked on my truck today mentioned about the stall set up on them. Not sure why Dodge does it that way. My understanding or take from his conversation was that they will always slip as the Sp is higher than what it turns. Did I say that right? John
John
Max Dodge - 27 Oct 2007 22:53 GMT A TC will always slip a bit, thats why the lock up clutch was invented. There are ways of cutting down on the slip, thus delivering more power from a standing start.
 Signature Max
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, he is not entitled to his own facts." Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York
>> Put a shift kit in the trans and you'll feel the power you have being >> delivered more effectively. Put in a lower stall TC and then the grunt [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John Midlant - 26 Oct 2007 03:38 GMT Is there a huge difference between injectors? I've seen some on ebay that seem pretty reasonable. John
RM v2.0 - 25 Oct 2007 16:21 GMT >I drove a friends Ford, 2005 I think. It took off like a raped ape hot rod, >not a truck. Both trucks are diesels. He drove mine and was shocked at how [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > accelerate. They just eventually gain momentum. > John They can ramp up the power in those diesels pretty high but at the expense of longevity.
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