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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / November 2007E85 Conversion Kit
Anyone out there know of any "known good, reliable, and simple" E85 conversion kit that fits and works on the Dodge 4.7L V8? Why would you want to do that?  Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels > Anyone out there know of any "known good, reliable, and simple" E85 > conversion kit that fits and works on the Dodge 4.7L V8? > Why would you want to do that? Maybe the OP justs wants to break Federal emissions laws? Since there are NO legal conversion kits made. SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to our future food shortages as a result but something will have to be done and I was just looking at options and trying to educate myself on it. I love the Dodge product but MoPar has never seemingly been concerned with gas mileage when designing them. They are about the worse offenders of miles-per-gallon of any vehicle I know. I am only looking of ways to improve mine. I see Flex Fuel, which was one of the options for my truck when I was looking for it; E85, or anything else that can do better than I am doing now. >> Why would you want to do that? > > Maybe the OP justs wants to break Federal emissions laws? Since there are > NO legal conversion kits made. If you want to stay with a V8 Mopar gas truck, your best bet just might be the Hemi with MDS. Another option might be a turbo-diesel. E85 and flex-fuel are just short term stopgaps, and not very good ones at that. > No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to > our future food shortages as a result but something will have to be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Maybe the OP justs wants to break Federal emissions laws? Since there >> are NO legal conversion kits made. I don't understand why the MDS system can't be an add-on or modification to any V8. But then again, I don't understand the details behind it either. I do know it's mostly electrical though. I would go for that in a heartbeat if it were available. > If you want to stay with a V8 Mopar gas truck, your best bet just might > be the Hemi with MDS. Another option might be a turbo-diesel. E85 and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>> Maybe the OP justs wants to break Federal emissions laws? Since there >>> are NO legal conversion kits made. >I don't understand why the MDS system can't be an add-on or modification to >any V8. But then again, I don't understand the details behind it either. >I do know it's mostly electrical though. I would go for that in a >heartbeat if it were available. It's not mostly electrical - the biggest part of it is the solenoid-deactivated lifter that stops the valves from operating. To retrofit MDS into an existing engine would require a new block to house the special lifters, solenoids, and oil passages to fee the solenoids - essentially requiring a whole new engine. I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be done besides telecommuting when I can. > >I don't understand why the MDS system can't be an add-on or modification > >to any V8. But then again, I don't understand the details behind it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the special lifters, solenoids, and oil passages to fee the solenoids - > essentially requiring a whole new engine. You could always trade for a new one.. > I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be > done besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> house the special lifters, solenoids, and oil passages to fee the >> solenoids - essentially requiring a whole new engine. it IS a new one. I just bought it in July. > You could always trade for a new one.. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>> house the special lifters, solenoids, and oil passages to fee the >>> solenoids - essentially requiring a whole new engine. Then, maybe a newer one... "Abby.Normal" <Back.Off@nospam.net> wrote in news:473cef56$0$8883 $4c368faf@roadrunner.com: > it IS a new one. I just bought it in July. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>>> house the special lifters, solenoids, and oil passages to fee the >>>> solenoids - essentially requiring a whole new engine. >I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be done >besides telecommuting when I can. You would think it could just be done electronically... I mean - don't energize the fuel injector, and don't fire the plug (not that it would really matter without any fuel). I guess that pumping so much regular air (rich in oxygen) through the exhaust would confuse the hell out of the O2 sensors (and probably burn up the cats, too), so they have to disable the intake/exhaust valves on the 'dead' cylinders. Ah well... hydrogen power is just around the corner, anyway. In 30 years or so, we'll all laugh about how much we used to pay for gasoline. Yeah..... sure..... :) > >I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be done > >besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > or so, we'll all laugh about how much we used to pay for gasoline. > Yeah..... sure..... :) Funny you should say that as just yesterday Honda was beginning their advertising for their upcoming fuel cell vehicle. If they actually start production any time soon, the American auto manufacturers will be saying bye-bye for good. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >>>I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be done >>>besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > production any time soon, the American auto manufacturers will be saying > bye-bye for good. Wonder where they'll get the H2 for the tank? Seems "upcoming" would have to be a good 10 years away just from an infrastructure requirements POV. Of course the H2 could always come from gasoline, but then, we'd still not be free from the dang stuff! SMH > Wonder where they'll get the H2 for the tank? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > SMH not only infrastructure insufficiency concerns, but what about the danger of handling the stuff? would you trust the average idiot on the road to fuel a fuel cell vehicle? SignatureChris >> Wonder where they'll get the H2 for the tank? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > of handling the stuff? would you trust the average idiot on the road to > fuel a fuel cell vehicle? Do you really think that gasoline is any safer???? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >>> Wonder where they'll get the H2 for the tank? >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Do you really think that gasoline is any safer???? the military doesnt drop gasoline bombs.... aside from that, no i dont trust the average idiot with a piece of paper much less a match and anything that might catch fire. but i live in a state where they put braille letters on the DRIVE UP ATM....need i say more? SignatureChris >>>> Wonder where they'll get the H2 for the tank? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > the military doesnt drop gasoline bombs.... They don't drop hydrogen gas bombs either. > aside from that, no i dont trust the average idiot with a piece of paper > much less a match and anything that might catch fire. And yet, many of them pump their own gas which is actually far more dangerous. > but i live in a state where they put braille letters on the DRIVE UP > ATM....need i say more? LOL, they are all like that and it is scary. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > > Do you really think that gasoline is any safer???? > > the military doesnt drop gasoline bombs.... Not true.. Well, no it's partially true. They don't drop them anymore, but they used too. Some variants of Napalm were made from jellied gasoline. >>>>I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be done >>>>besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Of course the H2 could always come from gasoline, but > then, we'd still not be free from the dang stuff! My thoughts exactly, Stephen. Unless they can source the hydrogen from something other than oil, they haven't really accomplished all that much. Mike >>>>>I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be >>>>>done besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Mike This will work if we can separate the H2 from water. What good is a hybrid vehicle if your electricity is made from fossil fuels? In Hawaii, for example, most power is from diesel generators. > What good is a hybrid vehicle if your electricity is made from fossil > fuels? In Hawaii, for example, most power is from diesel generators. Hi jbohren I never noticed a single generator while I was stationed on Oahu. Where do they keep these diesel generators? I didn't see any at Pearl Harbor, Hickam, or Kaneohe Bay. I toured Honolulu, Waikiki and the North Shore several times without ever seeing one. SignatureKen on the top of the mountain above Hickam, (I forget what the name of it is), above the WWII barracks, there is an Air Force site (SEON)(Solar Electro-Optical Network). I installed the computer equipment and network for that equipment some years ago. They had a diesel backup generator for the computers, servers, telescope, and SFIR equipment. Does that count? Man, what a view form the top of that hill!!! Spectacular just doesn't describe it. >> What good is a hybrid vehicle if your electricity is made from fossil >> fuels? In Hawaii, for example, most power is from diesel generators. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hickam, or Kaneohe Bay. I toured Honolulu, Waikiki and the North Shore > several times without ever seeing one. >> What good is a hybrid vehicle if your electricity is made from fossil >> fuels? In Hawaii, for example, most power is from diesel generators. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hickam, or Kaneohe Bay. I toured Honolulu, Waikiki and the North Shore > several times without ever seeing one. I dunno about Oahu, but the island of Hawaii has about; 67 MW generating from #6 Fuel Oil, 120 MW by #2 Diesel, 60 MW by Naphtha 30 MW by Geothermal, 12.9 by Wind Turbine, 16.3 by Hydro. (October 2006 figures) FMB (North Mexico) >>> What good is a hybrid vehicle if your electricity is made from fossil >>> fuels? In Hawaii, for example, most power is from diesel generators. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > FMB > (North Mexico) A lot of the generators are hidden in plain sight. Just about all the hotels on the islands have there own generation systems running off diesel. This also gets tapped for homes in the area (one of the stipulations of the building permit process is how much of a base load the generating equipment can handle. SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York >>>>>>I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be >>>>>>done besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > This will work if we can separate the H2 from water. Which we can and by many forms of energy. > What good is a hybrid vehicle if your electricity is made from fossil > fuels? In Hawaii, for example, most power is from diesel generators. Because even with fossil fuels, they are much more efficient at extracting the energy from the fuel and do it with far less emissions than a gas or diesel engine. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >>>>I stand corrected, than you. I guess there is not much that can be done >>>>besides telecommuting when I can. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Wonder where they'll get the H2 for the tank? From what I have read, some auto-manufacturers have designed a refrigerator sized hydrogen generator that the vehicle owners can use to recharge the vehicle at home in their garage. > Seems "upcoming" would have to be a good 10 years away > just from an infrastructure requirements POV. But unless the cars are available, who is going to invest the money in that infrastructure. The cars will be out way before the full infrastructure is in place and many will probably be fueled initially by personal H2 generators. > Of course the H2 could always come from gasoline, but > then, we'd still not be free from the dang stuff! We will probably never be free from the stuff but reduced demand reduces prices and dependency. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > If you want to stay with a V8 Mopar gas truck, your best bet just might > be the Hemi with MDS. Another option might be a turbo-diesel. E85 and > flex-fuel are just short term stopgaps, and not very good ones at that. Does MDS actually work? Earlier attempts (Cadillac back in ???) were rather disastrous, but I suppose computer technology has improved to the point that turning "on" and "off" a cylinder of a running engine can now work reliably. Still seems there must be a mechanical component of the system that must take a beating doing what it needs to do. How much mpg gain does one get out of this system? Seems a lot of complexity for only 1-2 mpg if that's all there is. SMH Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> wrote in news:gX5%i.8714$NC.7224 @trndny07: >> If you want to stay with a V8 Mopar gas truck, your best bet just might >> be the Hemi with MDS. Another option might be a turbo-diesel. E85 and >> flex-fuel are just short term stopgaps, and not very good ones at that. > > Does MDS actually work? Supposedly. > Earlier attempts (Cadillac back in ???) were rather disastrous, but I > suppose computer technology has improved to the point that turning "on" > and "off" a cylinder of a running engine can now work reliably. From what I've read, the two systems are worlds apart. > Still seems there must be a mechanical component of the system that > must take a beating doing what it needs to do. Probably no more of a beating than the pistons inside the cylinders. > How much mpg gain does one get out of this system? Seems a lot of > complexity for only 1-2 mpg if that's all there is. > > SMH Not sure of the specifics, but I'm sure they're out there waiting to be found.. >> If you want to stay with a V8 Mopar gas truck, your best bet just might >> be the Hemi with MDS. Another option might be a turbo-diesel. E85 and >> flex-fuel are just short term stopgaps, and not very good ones at that. > > Does MDS actually work? Yes it does but you are talking about some heavy vehicles so the improvement isn't massive and as always, depends on how it is driven. > Earlier attempts (Cadillac back in ???) were rather disastrous, but I > suppose computer technology has improved to the point that turning "on" > and "off" a cylinder of a running engine can now work reliably. As was already said, they are worlds apart and since I have yet to see any recalls on it, it seem to be reliable. > Still seems there must be a mechanical component of the system that > must take a beating doing what it needs to do. Actually, just the opposite but more care of the engine is required, especially when it comes to maintenance such as what oil to use and when to change it. > How much mpg gain does one get out of this system? Seems a lot of > complexity for only 1-2 mpg if that's all there is. It is not really all that complex which is probably why it works so much better than the GM system did but as said before, the gains are completely dependent on the driving conditions and how the driver operates the vehicle. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to our >future food shortages as a result but something will have to be done and I >was just looking at options and trying to educate myself on it. I love the >Dodge product but MoPar has never seemingly been concerned with gas mileage >when designing them. They are about the worse offenders of miles-per-gallon >of any vehicle I know. I am only looking of ways to improve mine. I think you miss the point here. E85 has a lot less heat energy in it than gas so MPG would be less because you would have to burn more fuel and in cold climates E85 would not be user freindly and have cold running issues even with fuel injection. ( BTW it is the heat of expanding gasses that drives a IC engine and with lower heat content fuel, more must be burned) In theory you could build a engine to run only on E85 with a much high compression ratio (E85 has a lot higher octane) to extract more energy from fuel and minimize MG loss and boost power too but this will never happen with a detriot vehicle. >I see Flex Fuel, which was one of the options for my truck when I was >looking for it; E85, or anything else that can do better than I am doing >now. Personally I do not see E85 as a solution. It is more of a political solution than anything else as it plays well for them. Last I read if every scrape of grain that could be converted to fuel was used (and none left for fuel) it would only make about 1/3 of daily fuel needs for nation. Even eth from switch grass and such is not much of a solution long term but it plays well politically and is some quick money for some in industry. There is something wrong with taking food off tables and putting it fuel tanks as food prices are rising because of this so you are paying even more to drive your beast. The real answer lies in making vehicles truely more fuel efficent and stretch supplies further rather than trying to find new ways to feed current hungry fleet. Sure I have some big iron but I only drive it when I need it not as a daily solution as I depend more and more on thrifty 4 bangers for daily chores. Cheaper in long run because big iron lasts a lot longer too. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com You know even doped up after knee surgery, his posts are still unbearable. > You know even doped up after knee surgery, his posts are still > unbearable. What happened to your knee?? Denny > > You know even doped up after knee surgery, his posts are still > > unbearable. > > What happened to your knee?? > > Denny They are both tore up from the years in the Army and the right knee has just been getting worse over the last few years, so it was either fix it now or continue to suffer. Luckily it was not a complete reconstruction so I will be up and around again real soon. >> > You know even doped up after knee surgery, his posts are still >> > unbearable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > fix it now or continue to suffer. Luckily it was not a complete > reconstruction so I will be up and around again real soon. It's good to hear that you'll be on it soon. Any surgury sucks. Denny > >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yeah this sucks, it is keeping off my motorcycle! LOL >> >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Yeah this sucks, it is keeping off my motorcycle! LOL No sh.t!! That means your stuck driving that damned Chevy around... Sorry, couldn't resist that one.... Denny > >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Man, I can't even do that right now, it was my right knee >>> >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > No sh.t!! That means your stuck driving that damned Chevy around... Ahh, so that's where the real knee damage came from. Do they still come with padded rear bumpers? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > >>> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sorry Chevy doesn't build Pre-school trucks like Dodge. No need for a padded rear bumper. <g> Thanks for the concern though Tom! >> >>> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > padded rear bumper. <g> > Thanks for the concern though Tom! Hey I have some concern for ya too.<G> I figure that you blew your knees out working on a promotion. <GBMF> Buddism say's I'm always right!!! > >> "Denny" <wddo...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > - Show quoted text - F.U. And you can shove your Buddism where the sun don't shine! <BFG> >> >> "Denny" <wddo...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > F.U. > And you can shove your Buddism where the sun don't shine! <BFG> Lashing out huh? The pain meds wearing off?<G> >> >>> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Sorry Chevy doesn't build Pre-school trucks like Dodge. No need for a > padded rear bumper. <g> The padded rear bumper is there so the owners hands didn't get cold while pushing it but I guess that they decided that the truck was simply too heavy to push so they stopped offering it. They were probably worried about lawsuits from owners that blow out their knees trying to do it. > Thanks for the concern though Tom! No problem Larry. You know me, only concerned for the welfare of others. Actually, my brother in law just had the same surgery Wed so I sorta know the hell that you are dealing with yourself. I hope that you feel better soon and good luck with your recovery. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > >> "Denny" <wddo...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > - Show quoted text - He doing ok? Nothing too serious I hope man. My bes to him and a speed recovery. As for the padded bumper, I have only had to push it once since I have owned it, and did not noticed it, so I guess the original owner took it off since it wasn't needed. <bg> >> >> "Denny" <wddo...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > owned it, and did not noticed it, so I guess the original owner took it > off since it wasn't needed. <bg> Yea but if it was a dodge you wouldnt have had to push it off the road, Dodges leave ya in the drive if they leave you at all ;) unlike the damn chebbies that like to leave you on the side of a extreemly busy interstate in rush hour. *grin* hope ya have a speedy recovery man SignatureChris >> >> "Denny" <wddo...@woh.rr.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > He doing ok? Nothing too serious I hope man. My bes to him and a > speed recovery. He has had a few problems but the doctor said that it isn't anything life threatening. He was supposed to be released from the hospital Friday but now it look more like Tuesday and even then, we are not sure if he will be home for Thanksgiving. > As for the padded bumper, I have only had to push it once since I have > owned it, and did not noticed it, so I guess the original owner took > it off since it wasn't needed. <bg> LOL SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > now it look more like Tuesday and even then, we are not sure if he will be > home for Thanksgiving. I hope all works out for him and even if he can't totally enjoy it, that he is home for Turkey day. It sucks being in the hospital on days like that. >> >> "azwiley1" <wiley...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > that he is home for Turkey day. It sucks being in the hospital on > days like that. Things are starting to look much better. The swelling went down on its own and the doctor didn't have to open it up again. He has also surpassed the other people in therapy who had a 4 day headstart on him and the doctor plans on releasing him today and letting him go home, no need for a rehab facility so he will be home for Thanksgiving. Now lets just hope that I can get there without too much hell. Have a great holiday. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving "TBone" <NoWay@nothere.com> wrote in message news:473da28e$0$16524< <snip> > Ahh, so that's where the real knee damage came from. Do they still come > with padded rear bumpers? Bone, are you sure you aren't confusing that with Ford's dual zone heated tailgate? As for knee surgery, if they said to keep it moving now so it doesn't stiffen up (knee), then keep it moving. It'll pay in the long run. FMB (North Mexico) > "TBone" <No...@nothere.com> wrote in message news:473da28e$0$16524< > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > FMB > (North Mexico) Oh I have been moving, as tolerated. I have been almost 100% weight bearing since I got home, only used the fake legs to get from the truck to the house the day of the surgery. > "TBone" <NoWay@nothere.com> wrote in message news:473da28e$0$16524< > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Bone, are you sure you aren't confusing that with Ford's dual zone heated > tailgate? LOL, I like that one. My buddy has a Ford F350 and I'm going to use that one on him. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving I guess I'm only looking for more miles per gallon from something but don't want to contribute to shorting our food supply for it. maybe a compost burning oxygen generating engine will work if only someone would just invent it. >>No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to our >>future food shortages as a result but something will have to be done and I [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com > I guess I'm only looking for more miles per gallon from something but don't > want to contribute to shorting our food supply for it. > > maybe a compost burning oxygen generating engine will work if only someone > would just invent it. Abby, the only real way to get the most MPG out of it is to watch how you drive, take off from stops and keep up on the maintenance of it. It is a V8 after all. > >No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to our > >future food shortages as a result but something will have to be done and I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I think you miss the point here. [snip] ___________________________________________________________ SBJ: 4T65E http://tinyurl.com/2lcjkv (Confuses a 4T65e with a 4L65e and won't admit it.) ___________________________________________________________ SBJ: Dumb brake question http://tinyurl.com/2ya3wo (Discribes the wrong brakes and won't admit it.) ___________________________________________________________ SBJ: Front wheel bearings-2000 Blazer?? http://tinyurl.com/2j44zv (Claims torque specs are wrong when they are not.) ___________________________________________________________ SBJ: Snoball Defense System v1.01 http://tinyurl.com/2okyfx (Snoball breaks these out when he knows he's wrong and doesn't want to admit it.) ___________________________________________________________ Snoman these are things YOU wrote. Don't like what YOU wrote? Then YOU should stop posting. >>No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to our >>future food shortages as a result but something will have to be done and I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > octane) to extract more energy from fuel and minimize MG loss and > boost power too but this will never happen with a detriot vehicle. I presume you mean Detroit? Specifically, why will it never happen with a Detroit vehicle? (this is gonna be good.... :^)) Mike >>I see Flex Fuel, which was one of the options for my truck when I was >>looking for it; E85, or anything else that can do better than I am doing [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > ----------------- > TheSnoMan.com >>>No. I was only wondering. I certainly do not want to contribute to our >>>future food shortages as a result but something will have to be done and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > (this is gonna be good.... :^)) No, just sad. For as long as I can remember, Detroit has always been reactive and never proactive on just about everything. Why should this change now? As it is, the big three are now GM, Toyota, and Ford and in a few years it will probably be Toyota, GM and Honda. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving |
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