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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / March 2008ping: Nate .. old baja pics
Hey Nate.. I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll post some current ones or I can email them to ya.. http://www.davisbaja.com/sept-baja.htm mac Please remove splinters before emailing > Hey Nate.. > I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Please remove splinters before emailing Bro, please post them here so we can all see them. Roy >> Hey Nate.. >> I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Roy Yea. What he said. Bob >> Hey Nate.. >> I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Roy I can't.. my new news server strips them.. If I get them on a page I'll post the link here.. fighting a damn cold now.. *hack* mac Please remove splinters before emailing >> Bro, please post them here so we can all see them. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If I get them on a page I'll post the link here.. fighting a damn > cold now.. *hack* Messages with binary attachments don't get passed through many servers on the inbound side either. You can post them at www.tinypic.com for free.  SignatureKen >>> Bro, please post them here so we can all see them. >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Messages with binary attachments don't get passed through many servers on >the inbound side either. You can post them at www.tinypic.com for free. I'll throw a bunch on one of the web pages when I feel better.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing I hope you feel better soon. I was sick as a dog on Wednesday. I laid on the couch for about 18 hours with a fever. I only got up for bathroom breaks and my head hurt so bad I could hardly keep my balance. I'm still feeling some of it today but I'm medicating with copious amounts of a fermented malted barley and hops remedy. It doesn't do much for balance but it eases the pain some. SignatureKen >I hope you feel better soon. I was sick as a dog on Wednesday. I laid on the >couch for about 18 hours with a fever. I only got up for bathroom breaks and >my head hurt so bad I could hardly keep my balance. I'm still feeling some >of it today but I'm medicating with copious amounts of a fermented malted >barley and hops remedy. It doesn't do much for balance but it eases the pain >some. Thanks... I don't get sick very often, so it kind of pisses me off when I am.. I've been at half speed or less for a week and really down for 2 days... I ducked the last 3 or 4 bugs but this one caught me good... I hate not being able to work in the shop..grrrr.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing > On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:14:17 -0500, "Nosey" > <kfrei43@removethis.hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > being > able to work in the shop..grrrr.. Mega dose the vitamin C bro. Roy > mac > > Please remove splinters before emailing >> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:14:17 -0500, "Nosey" >> <kfrei43@removethis.hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Roy She's got me on vitamins, antibiotics, decongestants, antihistamines, fresh fruit.. hell, I'm not sure what else.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>> Hey Nate.. >>> I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > I can't.. my new news server strips them.. No, I got them on your first attempt. Roy i never got them. message was empty. SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com >>>> Hey Nate.. >>>> I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Roy >i never got them. message was empty. hmm... your server must have stripped them... Did you get the link for the old ones? http://www.davisbaja.com/sept-baja.htm mac Please remove splinters before emailing > http://www.davisbaja.com/sept-baja.htm i did. thats really neat. what is that type of housing called and how is it constructed? SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com >> http://www.davisbaja.com/sept-baja.htm > >i did. thats really neat. what is that type of housing called and how is >it constructed? Not sure what you mean by "Type of housing"? If you mean the style, I'd guess something like "Southwest" but I really don't know.. They just ask that it have a "Mexican" flow to it.. We pretty much told the builder that we wanted 2 bedrooms and baths, a shop and as few walls as possible.. His 2nd floorplan was right on and we told him to go for it.. The great room is about 30 feet long with no walls dividing what would be kitchen/living/dining rooms in the states.. Lots of open space and windows, lots of French doors, front and back verandas, etc.. The foundation is concrete slab poured on packed red dirt... The exterior walls are stuff made up of cement and styrofoam, known as "durawall", Performa wall" and "Newdura"... Sort of like building out of block, except the material is much lighter and better insulating.. Also, it comes in a lot longer strips, so it foes up faster.. The roof is cement poured over a form braced on concrete beams on 24" centers.. I can't remember if it's 4, 6, or 8" thick.. The inside ceilings are 6" of foam, which is plastered and painted.. The windows and patio doors are double pane and tinted.. That's about all I can remember, Nate.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>> http://www.davisbaja.com/sept-baja.htm >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > That's about all I can remember, Nate.. I do like that roof. It looks like a nice place to hang out in the evenings and in the morning before the sun cranks up with some interesting views. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >I do like that roof. It looks like a nice place to hang out in the evenings >and in the morning before the sun cranks up with some interesting views. It's sort of a myth, T... Everyone thinks that they're going to spend lots of time on the roof, maybe even sleep there some hot nights.. We even had the main part tiled and plumbed for a hot tub.. The reality is you go up once in a while, if it's not too hot or too windy, but most company wants to be on the courtyard or inside.. Our neighbor has a bbq, tables, bar & stools and just about everything else up on his.. I think he used the roof a lot at first but hardly ever does now.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>I do like that roof. It looks like a nice place to hang out in the >>evenings [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > on his.. I think he used the roof a lot at first but hardly ever does > now.. That's too bad. It looks like from the pictures like a nice place to hang out. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> Our neighbor has a bbq, tables, bar & stools and just about everything >> else up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >That's too bad. It looks like from the pictures like a nice place to hang >out. It is, weather permitting... The first winter, my wife thought that the roof was a perfect place for her exercise equipment.. (only place, really, no room in the house) She found out that between wind, cold and motivation, the roof was just a good place to store sh.t.. Don't get me wrong, it is a nice place to hang out sometimes, but since everyone thinks that they're going to practically live on the roof, they make it nice.. then, the next generation of folks see all the nice roofs and think that they have to have one.. We bought a queen-size air bed before we moved.. figured that it would be great for sleeping on the roof.. Never been out of the friggin' box.. lol mac Please remove splinters before emailing > The reality is you go up once in a while, if it's not too hot or too > windy, but > most company wants to be on the courtyard or inside.. i like it because it looks like a very defensible position. :-) SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com >> The reality is you go up once in a while, if it's not too hot or too >> windy, but >> most company wants to be on the courtyard or inside.. > >i like it because it looks like a very defensible position. :-) I'll have to post a pic of the neighbor's house.. we call it The Alamo.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing > Not sure what you mean by "Type of housing"? like "ranch house", "victorian house", etc. if i wanted to build a house just like yours i wouldnt know what to begin to ask for. SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com >> Not sure what you mean by "Type of housing"? > >like "ranch house", "victorian house", etc. if i wanted to build a house >just like yours i wouldnt know what to begin to ask for. We really didn't either... We spent an afternoon with the builder, looking at homes that he was working on or had recently finished, with him asking "like/dislike" questions.. The next day we met at his office and talked about size, price, etc.. he emailed ideas until we liked one.. Most have web pages with sample houses and floor plans, too.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>>> Hey Nate.. >>>> I found this page.... these are from when the house was going up.. I'll [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Roy They must have changed, obviously... when I tried a few weeks ago it told me that the files were refused! mac Please remove splinters before emailing > http://www.davisbaja.com/sept-baja.htm thats pretty dang neat mac! im surprised though, at the cost. 150k is what i would expect to pay in this country. in mexico where the typical worker makes $5 a day how do the locals afford to live if a nice hosue like that is 150k? how are you received in general? are you disliked for being able to afford such a house? for example, so many californians are selling their homes and moving to montana bringing the millions of dollars that they got for selling their homes in california that the property values here are getting so outrageous that its getting difficult for the lower and lower-middle class to afford a decent home. this (amongst other political reasons) is why the natives tend to dislike californians (im not saying it is justified or not, im just saying how it is). do you run into the same thing there? i look foward to more pics, its really neat what you have done. SignatureNathan In Montana http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com > in mexico where the typical worker makes $5 a day Why do so many Americans have a complete lack of knowledge of Mexico yet make statements like that? It is true that Mexico's minimum wage is about that but per the Mexican Social Security Institute the average is 4 to 5 times as much. Plus their money goes much further than it does here. >> in mexico where the typical worker makes $5 a day > > Why do so many Americans have a complete lack of knowledge of Mexico yet > make statements like that? that statement was based on comments from someone actually living and working there. are you claiming greater knowledge than one who lives and works there every day? SignatureNathan In Montana http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com > that statement was based on comments from someone actually living and > working there. are you claiming greater knowledge than one who lives and > works there every day? Possibly yes. I do not know whom you are referring to. I have traveled Mexico extensively, have relatives born and raised in Mexico and my folks currently live in Mexico. So yes, your statement is wrong and Mexico's IMSS office that tracks such figures also disagrees. > Possibly yes. I do not know whom you are referring to. I have traveled > Mexico extensively, have relatives born and raised in Mexico and my folks > currently live in Mexico. So yes, your statement is wrong and Mexico's > IMSS office that tracks such figures also disagrees. what some website has to say is to me irrelevant. i base both my statement and belief on those who live there and work there. earlier i posted a link to my friend/employee oscar. he is one of my sources. SignatureNathan In Montana http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com You are wasting your time Nate. Miles knows everything about everything and has family who lives everywhere and does everything. Funny how he described Mexico as a third world nation and then says everyone there is living well and the poverty level is slim, LOL. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> Possibly yes. I do not know whom you are referring to. I have traveled >> Mexico extensively, have relatives born and raised in Mexico and my folks [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > statement and belief on those who live there and work there. earlier i > posted a link to my friend/employee oscar. he is one of my sources. > You are wasting your time Nate. Miles knows everything about everything and > has family who lives everywhere and does everything. Funny how he described > Mexico as a third world nation and then says everyone there is living well > and the poverty level is slim, LOL. 3rd world does not mean dirt poor. It's more of a cultural and sociological difference than an economic one. You crack me up TBone. You and Nate will argue about a country you've never been to and attempt to know all about it. Too funny. >> You are wasting your time Nate. Miles knows everything about everything >> and has family who lives everywhere and does everything. Funny how he >> described Mexico as a third world nation and then says everyone there is >> living well and the poverty level is slim, LOL. > > 3rd world does not mean dirt poor. Oh really??? Go look it up and post the definition. > It's more of a cultural and sociological difference than an economic one. How would you know, do you live there? the number of people giving up everything to come here say's different. > You crack me up TBone. You and Nate will argue about a country you've > never been to and attempt to know all about it. Too funny. I hate to burst your bubble Miles, you keep killing your own arguments. First you say that money there goes further, then you say that just about everything but housing cost the same as it does here. How exactly then does money go further then???? You say that the Mexican worker makes the same there as here and then say that companies there have significant savings in operating costs including labor. How exactly does that work??? I could go further but since all you will do is spin it, there is no point. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Oh really??? Go look it up and post the definition. "Developing Nation". Has nothing to do with being poor and everything to do with the style of social, political, and economic cultures. > How would you know, do you live there? Yes I have. Have you? >> Oh really??? Go look it up and post the definition. > > "Developing Nation". Has nothing to do with being poor and everything to > do with the style of social, political, and economic cultures. LOL, not by definition and with what you say the current minimum wage is and even what many are making, the definition is correct andf you are wrong, imagine that. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > LOL, not by definition and with what you say the current minimum wage is and > even what many are making, the definition is correct andf you are wrong, > imagine that. You still trying to argue about a country you have never been too, have no family there and know zilch about? Ya, thats your style. >> LOL, not by definition and with what you say the current minimum wage is >> and even what many are making, the definition is correct andf you are >> wrong, imagine that. > > You still trying to argue about a country you have never been too, have no > family there and know zilch about? Ya, thats your style. Just because you lived there doesn't make you an expert as you are more than proving here. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Just because you lived there doesn't make you an expert as you are more than > proving here. Far more so than you who know zilch. >> Just because you lived there doesn't make you an expert as you are more >> than proving here. > > Far more so than you who know zilch. Say all that you want Miles because all you are really managing to do is prove my points. 40% below the poverty level is even worse than Jamaica and to see the way some of the people live over there is enough to make you cry. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Say all that you want Miles because all you are really managing to do is > prove my points. 40% below the poverty level is even worse than Jamaica and > to see the way some of the people live over there is enough to make you cry. Mexico ranks right next to Australia for % of people living below the median income. That 40% is also based on the USA's poverty level which doesn't apply to Mexico to well. Someone earning a wage at the USA's poverty level would certainly not be poor in Mexico. Heck, most people at the USA's poverty level would be considered doing rather well in many other countries. Jamaica huh? Hmm. Another country you've never been too but know all about huh? >> Say all that you want Miles because all you are really managing to do is >> prove my points. 40% below the poverty level is even worse than Jamaica [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Mexico ranks right next to Australia for % of people living below the > median income. That is not true. Perhaps you had better go back and really look at the site that you posted. IIRC, and I'm not going to even bother wasting the time to look, the rating that you are refering to is GNP, not the number of people living above or below the poverty line. The poverty level rating can be found by clicking on Mexico in the main rating list and then clicking on the link where it shows the poverty level. A whole new list pops up showing the ranks of the different countries according to population below the poverty level and Australia is nowhere near it but Jamaica is right above it and everyone knows just how dirt poor that country is. > That 40% is also based on the USA's poverty level which doesn't apply to > Mexico to well. Damn Miles, can you really be this stupid???? That would make it a meaningless number. Sorry to burst you bubble Miles, but once again you are dead wrong. Those numbers are based on the poverty level of the specific country, not the US. > Someone earning a wage at the USA's poverty level would certainly not be > poor in Mexico. That is correct so please explain the meaning of using the US poverty level as a basis point for other countries. You will not be able to because it makes no sense at all and would be completely meaningless. Hell Miles, even in this country you can't even do that between States. Do you really think that you can live at the same level for the same money in California as you can in Montana. > Heck, most people at the USA's poverty level would be considered doing > rather well in many other countries. Again, more proof that basing poverty level of other countries on American incomes as you said they did would be completely meaningless and that you really don't know WTF you are talking about. > Jamaica huh? Hmm. Another country you've never been too but know all > about huh? Actually Miles. I have been there a few times. As you like to say, I have, or in this case had, family over there. And like you said, many of the locals are loving and caring people but many don't have a pot to piss in. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > That is not true. IIRC, and I'm not going to even bother wasting the > time to look, the rating that you are refering to is GNP, not the number of > people living above or below the poverty line. Title of the chart on the 1st page reads "Population below median income". I said median TBone. > Those numbers are based on the poverty level of the specific > country, not the US. Wrong. Each country may or may not even have a poverty level THEY compute. It's only meaningful if you have something to relate it to. Whats considered poverty in the USA may not be poverty elsewhere. In the USA theres scores of people below the poverty level whom have cable TV and Internet. Different cultures TBone. Something you just can't grasp. > Do you really think > that you can live at the same level for the same money in California as you > can in Montana. Exactly, yet there is a federal poverty level used for determining things such as social services available even at the state level. > As you like to say, I have, > or in this case had, family over there. Sure ya do TBone! Good grief! >> That is not true. IIRC, and I'm not going to even bother wasting the >> time to look, the rating that you are refering to is GNP, not the number >> of people living above or below the poverty line. > > Title of the chart on the 1st page reads "Population below median income". > I said median TBone. Who cares Miles. When you click on Mexico it says that 40% are below the poverty level. >> Those numbers are based on the poverty level of the specific country, not >> the US. > > Wrong. Each country may or may not even have a poverty level THEY > compute. It's only meaningful if you have something to relate it to. Are you really serious? What a complete load of crap. Poverty has a definition Miles, go and look it up. > Whats considered poverty in the USA may not be poverty elsewhere. Once again, you prove yourself to be an idiot. While it may be true that the same standard of living in one area may be considered substandard in another, poverty is pretty much the same everywhere. When you cannot affors to feed your falily or provide for even basic needs, then you are in the poverty class and yes, there are levels of that as well. > In the USA theres scores of people below the poverty level whom have cable > TV and Internet. Different cultures TBone. Something you just can't > grasp. LOL, if they can afford cable TV and internet connections then they are either not poverty level or are just stupid, much like yourself. >> Do you really think that you can live at the same level for the same >> money in California as you can in Montana. > > Exactly, yet there is a federal poverty level used for determining things > such as social services available even at the state level. Yes they can but it is not exactly the same for every state or even for every reigon in each state. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving s Miles. When you click on Mexico it says that 40% are below the > poverty level. What poverty level is that exactly? What does it mean in Mexico? How are these 40% living exactly? What do they have in the way of housing, food etc? I know you have a belief of dirt poor with little to nothing (maybe based on USA standards) but thats all it is, a belief. > Are you really serious? What a complete load of crap. Poverty has a > definition Miles, go and look it up. The POVERTY LEVEL does not have an exact definition agreed to by every nation in the world in how they compute it. The poverty level the Feds in the USA set does not mean dirt poor and homeless without food etc. > poverty is pretty much the same everywhere. Bull. In the USA people that earn the poverty level generally have a roof over their head, food and a car. You just cant seem to handle that. When you cannot affors > to feed your falily or provide for even basic needs, then you are in the > poverty class and yes, there are levels of that as well. Poverty 'CLASS'? That has nothing to do with the federal poverty level in terms of $'s. People in the USA at the poverty level arent necessarily dirt poor, without basic needs etc. > LOL, if they can afford cable TV and internet connections then they are > either not poverty level Then the federal Gov.'s poverty level figure must be wrong, or more likely you are wrong! > Yes they can but it is not exactly the same for every state or even for > every reigon in each state. The federal poverty level is the same for all states and used to determine social services available even at the state level. > s Miles. When you click on Mexico it says that 40% are below the >> poverty level. > > What poverty level is that exactly? What does it mean in Mexico? Since their standard of living is so much lower than ours, I would say that their poverty level is also way lower than ours. > How are these 40% living exactly? What do they have in the way of > housing, food etc? I know you have a belief of dirt poor with little to > nothing (maybe based on USA standards) but thats all it is, a belief. You make no sense at all Miles. First you say that their culture is the reason that they live at such a lower standard of living than that common in the US then you say that there definition of poverty is higher than ours or that they don't have one. Please list all of the countries that you can think of that actually have an economy even close to the size of Mexico's and don't classify a poverty level. >> Are you really serious? What a complete load of crap. Poverty has a >> definition Miles, go and look it up. > > The POVERTY LEVEL does not have an exact definition agreed to by every > nation in the world in how they compute it. The poverty level the Feds in > the USA set does not mean dirt poor and homeless without food etc. It is based on the level below what is accepted as the common standard of living. Since the common standard of living of many that you claim are fine and happy is way below that of ours, it only makes sense that the level that they refer to as poverty is also much lower than what we start it at. Sorry Miles, but all your cultural bullshit is comming back to bite you. >> poverty is pretty much the same everywhere. > > Bull. In the USA people that earn the poverty level generally have a roof > over their head, food and a car. You just cant seem to handle that. How would you know Miles? Do you have family that live that way as well or are you just referring to your employees. You are referring to the working poor and they are a step or two above true poverty. > When you cannot affors >> to feed your falily or provide for even basic needs, then you are in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > terms of $'s. People in the USA at the poverty level arent necessarily > dirt poor, without basic needs etc. You keep talking about the US, why is that? We are talking about Mexico and if their normal standard of living is somewhat lower than that in the US, the poverty level will be as well. >> LOL, if they can afford cable TV and internet connections then they are >> either not poverty level > > Then the federal Gov.'s poverty level figure must be wrong, or more likely > you are wrong! It's based on a dollar amount of wages that they are aware of and since our government always tries to make itself look better and take the easy way out, yea, they are probably wrong. If people are making money under the table to pay for these things or are living in government housing and eating from food stamps then they may be earning enough under the table or the housing might have a common cable connection and still be considered at a poverty level. Does Mexico have all of these social programs? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Since their standard of living is so much lower than ours, I would say that > their poverty level is also way lower than ours. In comparison perhaps but their needs and priorities are vastly different than ours. People need far less in Mexico in order to be happy. > How would you know Miles? Do you have family that live that way as well I spend several hours a day doing volunteer charity work for numerous families in just such a situation. So yes, I most certainly do know. I would think you being the compassionate liberal would be doing even more and get to know the people you're guessing about. >Does Mexico have all of these social programs? They're smarter than the USA and do not believe in oppression through social handouts that have never done anything to reduce poverty. Yet they do have numerous social programs to help people to help themselves. >> Since their standard of living is so much lower than ours, I would say >> that their poverty level is also way lower than ours. > > In comparison perhaps but their needs and priorities are vastly different > than ours. People need far less in Mexico in order to be happy. How so Miles??? As said before, there is a huge difference between needs and wants and just because they may have gotten used to doing with very little doesn't mean that they don't want more. Do you have any idea just how stupid you sound? >> How would you know Miles? Do you have family that live that way as well > > I spend several hours a day doing volunteer charity work for numerous > families in just such a situation. So yes, I most certainly do know. I > would think you being the compassionate liberal would be doing even more > and get to know the people you're guessing about. I do know them Miles and unlike you, I actually have friends in that situation. Being that they are my friends, I see first hand the problems that they have and the worries as well. By what you say Miles, it is more than clear the you really don't have a f.cking clue. >>Does Mexico have all of these social programs? > > They're smarter than the USA and do not believe in oppression through > social handouts that have never done anything to reduce poverty. Yet they > do have numerous social programs to help people to help themselves. Really, name them. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Really, name them. Yes Mexico REALLY does have some good welfare programs. The Progresa program for starters. It is a direct cash handout mostly to women with children in the very poorest of regions. It gives them cash they need for food etc. However, it requires that their kids go to school rather than work the fields. The intent is to educate theses kids so they do not end up on welfare later in life themselves. >> Really, name them. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > work the fields. The intent is to educate theses kids so they do not end > up on welfare later in life themselves. The only problem with this is that this program didn't even start until 1997 but thanks for proving my point once again. Proponents of Progresa say the program works because it attacks the source of low school attendance in Mexico: low family income. Families in poor countries prefer to send their children to school but cannot live without the income their children provide. I guess that all of the families in Mexico are not fat and happy like you suggest after all. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > The only problem with this is that this program didn't even start until 1997 > but thanks for proving my point once again. Proponents of Progresa say the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > provide. I guess that all of the families in Mexico are not fat and happy > like you suggest after all. Sigh. Never said all. Every family in the USA isn't as well. There are poor in every country of the world. You ask "REALLY?" and attempted to discount the fact decent welfare that helps people rather sustain as our programs do, does exist in Mexico. Now you spin it with your rhetoric as usual! It exists Tom!!! The programs are aimed at the poorest of Mexicans in remote village type towns. Not the cities where most people live. They're also building schools in these areas as many such regions are so remote its often too far for kids to travel to a school. > You and Nate will argue about a country you've never been to and attempt > to know all about it. Too funny. coming from one quoting mexican government statistics thats laughable miles. SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com > coming from one quoting mexican government statistics thats laughable miles. IOW;s your a typical person that assumes Mexico is dirt poor with a highly corrupt non-functional Gov. all based on anything but fact. The USA's Gov. is corrupt in much the same manner. >> coming from one quoting mexican government statistics thats laughable miles. > >IOW;s your a typical person that assumes Mexico is dirt poor with a >highly corrupt non-functional Gov. all based on anything but fact. The >USA's Gov. is corrupt in much the same manner. Actually... I agree with him, Miles.. Believing sh.t that the Mexican or United States governments tell you is like believing in the Easter Bunny... (sorry Denny) mac Please remove splinters before emailing > Actually... I agree with him, Miles.. > Believing sh.t that the Mexican or United States governments tell you is like > believing in the Easter Bunny... (sorry Denny) Exactly. My point was that for every example of how someone lost out due to corruption in the Mexican Gov., it's pretty easy to find a similar example in the USA. The Mexican Gov. is not a hodge podge of organized criminal corruption. At least not much more than the USA. It's come along ways from 3+ decades ago. However, cities such as Tijuana still have major problems. > The USA's Gov. is corrupt in much the same manner. we could go back and forth all day about this and accomplish _nothing_....surely you can agree on that. SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com > what some website has to say is to me irrelevant. i base both my statement > and belief on those who live there and work there. earlier i posted a link > to my friend/employee oscar. he is one of my sources. IMSS is a Mexican Gov. office that reports economic conditions. They are not 'some website'. As I said, I do have family there and know the economy well. The average wage in Mexico is NOT $5/hr and not even close. It is not a dirt poor country as so many Americans who have never been there believe. >> what some website has to say is to me irrelevant. i base both my >> statement and belief on those who live there and work there. earlier i [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It is not a dirt poor country as so many Americans who have never been > there believe. Actually Miles, he said $5 a DAY, not per hour. I will agree with you that the Mexican economy has improved much in the past years but much like here, most of the money goes to the few and the rest have to scrape to get by. If conditions are as good as you say, there simply would not be the number of people trying to get here from there. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Actually Miles, he said $5 a DAY, not per hour. You're correct. My typo. But point still stands. Mexicans on average are paid many times over $5/day. >If > conditions are as good as you say, there simply would not be the number of > people trying to get here from there. You have no comprehension of what part of the Mexican society is coming here. None at all. It is NOT an overall mix of people. They are much of the part that Mexico does not want and why the Mexican Gov. encourages them to come to the USA. We get their problems that they do not want. >> Actually Miles, he said $5 a DAY, not per hour. > > You're correct. My typo. But point still stands. Mexicans on average > are paid many times over $5/day. Your point is complete crap. Even $20 dollars a day is nothing compared to even minimum wage here in the US. Like I said, and you wonder why they flood our borders. >>If conditions are as good as you say, there simply would not be the number >>of people trying to get here from there. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the part that Mexico does not want and why the Mexican Gov. encourages > them to come to the USA. We get their problems that they do not want. More crap that you cannot possibly back up. Many of the Mexicans that I know and deal with are very hard working people. Sure, we get some of the scum comming across as well but that doesn't make it the majority. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >>> Actually Miles, he said $5 a DAY, not per hour. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >even minimum wage here in the US. Like I said, and you wonder why they >flood our borders. You have to consider cost of living, T... Say a guy is making $65 a day in Ca, as opposed to $20 a day in Mexico... He could rent a 1 bedroom apt. here for about $150 a month... I just don't see that happening in Ca... Food and clothing are probably about the same, if he lived in a cheap area of Ca.. Of course, with no green card and probably not speaking any English, he's not going to have a prayer in hell of making min. wage in the states.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>>> Actually Miles, he said $5 a DAY, not per hour. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > see > that happening in Ca... I think that you also need to consider the cost of living there Mac. People are not going to work for less than they need to survive, at least not for long. If the cost of living is high as it is in CA, then they will make more because the employers simply will not be able to get workers for less. Now the illegals will work for less than many of the legals and just about any American, but they still need to make enough to survive. They are also used to much lower standards of living than most Americans so having 6 or more workers sharing a 1 bedroom apartment is no big deal for them as they have electricity, running water, an indoor bathroom, heat and AC, and some securitry. The extra money can be sent back home to their families. > Food and clothing are probably about the same, if he lived in a cheap area > of > Ca.. And the rent would also be much lower if he lived in a low income area. I'm not going to get into a big argument with you on this or claim to have more knowledge on the subject as unlike you, I don't live there. But by listening to you, I can say that many don't have the highest standard of living for whatever reason and they are comming here and in large numbers and giving up their home for a reason. > Of course, with no green card and probably not speaking any English, he's > not > going to have a prayer in hell of making min. wage in the states.. That's not really true either. Employers are going to pay what they must to get the workers to work. As Miles said, many of the illegals in AZ have driven the price of day labor to $15 an hour amd more. That is more than a little bit above minimum wage. Even illegals are not going to work for less than they need to survive. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >I think that you also need to consider the cost of living there Mac. People >are not going to work for less than they need to survive, at least not for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >have electricity, running water, an indoor bathroom, heat and AC, and some >securitry. The extra money can be sent back home to their families. Very true.. I saw a lot of really packed housing in the Fresno & Madera areas of CA... A big difference there is that these were seasonal workers, following crops from Mexico, Ca, AZ and so on, as crops were ready to pick.. Otoh, very few people crossing the borders illegally are very highly skilled.. The demand for skilled labor, especially high tech, is very strong in the Ensenada and TJ areas and building skills are in demand in most of Baja.. Some of the larger condo complexes going up in my area have had to import a lot of the labor from the States.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing >>I think that you also need to consider the cost of living there Mac. >>People [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > a lot > of the labor from the States.. That's kinda funny as many of the builders here in NC (at least my area) are Mexican and many don't speak much if any english. Now I don't know if they are all illegals or not but I bet some of them are as it sorta looks like they live in that van they drive to the sites. Then again, their work is far from the best that I have seen but they are paid by the job, not the hour so the more work that they do.... I guess that many will always go where the money is. Now that the building in shis state is rapidly comming to a halt as it is in many other areas of the country, you may get some of them back. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >>>I think that you also need to consider the cost of living there Mac. >>>People [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >to a halt as it is in many other areas of the country, you may get some of >them back. WOW.. I can't even imagine being from Mexico, especially the Baja, and experiencing a NC winter... *shudder* mac Please remove splinters before emailing > WOW.. I can't even imagine being from Mexico, especially the Baja, and > experiencing a NC winter... *shudder* lol.....you should have seen my employee oscar coming from mexico city into a montana winter. i swear he moved in slow motion. :-) SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com > Your point is complete crap. Even $20 dollars a day is nothing compared to > even minimum wage here in the US. Like I said, and you wonder why they > flood our borders. Nah, I wonder how people like yourself can argue about a country they have zero comprehension of and have never even been there. >>> If conditions are as good as you say, there simply would not be the number >>> of people trying to get here from there. How many people do not come here? What part of Mexico's society is coming here? You have no clue to either answer. >> Your point is complete crap. Even $20 dollars a day is nothing compared to >> even minimum wage here in the US. Like I said, and you wonder why they [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >How many people do not come here? What part of Mexico's society is >coming here? You have no clue to either answer. Also, Miles, as I've mentioned a few times, what SKILL LEVEL people are going to the States? mac Please remove splinters before emailing > Also, Miles, as I've mentioned a few times, what SKILL LEVEL people are going to > the States? Mostly under and uneducated. Mexico exports its poverty instead of dealing with it themselves. Americans tend to believe Mexico by and large is mostly living in poverty. That leads them to feel those that come here are a cross section of the Mexican population. I find Mexicans in Mexico nicer, harder working and more willing to give even when they are living in poverty. We invited a man selling crafts on the beach over to our trailer for a BBQ. On a later trip he invited our entire family over to his house where his wife made us the best tamale's I've ever had. Just a fun experience meeting the locals there. Always so friendly to us. >> Your point is complete crap. Even $20 dollars a day is nothing compared >> to even minimum wage here in the US. Like I said, and you wonder why >> they flood our borders. > > Nah, I wonder how people like yourself can argue about a country they > have zero comprehension of and have never even been there. Give it up Miles. That's all that you can say because you have no valid argument. >>>> If conditions are as good as you say, there simply would not be the >>>> number of people trying to get here from there. > > How many people do not come here? What part of Mexico's society is coming > here? You have no clue to either answer. And neither do you miles as there is no way to know. All you can do is assume and your assumptions are clouded by your bias just like everyone elses. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving >> what some website has to say is to me irrelevant. i base both my statement >> and belief on those who live there and work there. earlier i posted a link [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >close. It is not a dirt poor country as so many Americans who have >never been there believe. $5 an hour would be pretty good money for a lot of jobs here, Miles... The Min. wage is about $5 a DAY, but most folks, as in the States, make more than that.. Most builders now are paying about $120 a week (5 1/2 days) for labor, up to $200 if it's skilled labor like windows, doors, tile, etc.. I'd say the building trades and retailers are at the top of the food chain right now.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing > IMSS is a Mexican Gov. this is laughable miles. you consider the mexican government _credible_? ...i think ill put my trust in those who live and work there. the "average joe"....or "average pedro" would know a lot more about living conditions for the average pedro than would the corrupt government. SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com office that reports economic conditions. They > are not 'some website'. As I said, I do have family there and know the > economy well. The average wage in Mexico is NOT $5/hr and not even close. > It is not a dirt poor country as so many Americans who have never been > there believe. >> IMSS is a Mexican Gov. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >joe"....or "average pedro" would know a lot more about living conditions for >the average pedro than would the corrupt government. corrupt government??? Oh, you meant the U.S... I get it now.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing > corrupt government??? > Oh, you meant the U.S... I get it now.. isnt the mexican government more blatent about letting you buy your way out of anything? i dont know the extent of their involvement in sending mexican troops into the US to smuggle drugs (engaging our border patrol in the process) but theyve done nothing to acknowledge the problem and seemingly nothing to end it. SignatureNathan In Montana http://BighornTactical.com http://ConcealedCarryForum.com http://1911Talk.com http://HiPowerTalk.com http://GlockCarry.com http://p99sw99.com http://PPStalk.com http://P7talk.com \ > isnt the mexican government more blatent about letting you buy your way out > of anything? Thats an old myth. Doesn't happen very often just as in the USA. It was more common 20-30 years ago but not so much today. Attempting to bribe a law official will more often than not get you into far more trouble. >> corrupt government??? >> Oh, you meant the U.S... I get it now.. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >process) but theyve done nothing to acknowledge the problem and seemingly >nothing to end it. Only in the movies, nate, as far as we've seen... Everyone told us that we should carry a lot of cash in several different places so we could pay bribes all the time... NOT.. You wouldn't believe the hoops that we had to jump through to move here, not pay full tariff on our stuff, and such... Also, we're not allowed to work, unless we can prove that the job doesn't cause a National to lose job or chance of one.. We pass through a military checkpoint whenever we head to the border or back.. Those kids with m-16's sure look serious when they search the cars.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing > corrupt government??? > Oh, you meant the U.S... I get it now.. Thats true. For all the problems people state about the Mexican Gov. they seem to ignore very similar problems in the USA. >> corrupt government??? >> Oh, you meant the U.S... I get it now.. > > Thats true. For all the problems people state about the Mexican Gov. they > seem to ignore very similar problems in the USA. Oh, really Miles??? Then how do you explain the last and upcomming elections? SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Oh, really Miles??? Then how do you explain the last and upcomming > elections? You mean Mexico's elections where the liberal candidate lost and started a huge protest even worse than what the liberals in the USA did in FL? When a liberal loses they never blame themselves to improve next time and gain votes. Same in the USA or Mexico. >> Oh, really Miles??? Then how do you explain the last and upcomming >> elections? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a liberal loses they never blame themselves to improve next time and gain > votes. Same in the USA or Mexico. Actually Miles. I was talking about this country. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Actually Miles. I was talking about this country. Hatred and false promises from liberal politicians. They have not delivered what they campaigned to do. And sorry TBone, it's not because of Reps that the Dems have not delivered. They haven't even tried. But they have tried to do even worse. If it weren't for the Reps our spending would be even higher than it is. The Reps are horrible but the Dems are not the answer. >> Actually Miles. I was talking about this country. > > Hatred and false promises from liberal politicians. LOL, sorry Miles, but the right are the kings of hatred. Look what they did to this country now and what they did to Clinton out of nothing but fear. This country was and to a degree still is a laughing stock to many other countries due to that. > They have not delivered what they campaigned to do. And sorry TBone, it's > not because of Reps that the Dems have not delivered. Oh yea, and the right always has, LOL! Sorry Miles, but it very much has to do with the right and the idiot that we have for a President. > They haven't even tried. But they have tried to do even worse. If it > weren't for the Reps our spending would be even higher than it is. The > Reps are horrible but the Dems are not the answer. Yea, right. How exactly are they going to do anything without spending money? I guess that you would rather do as our president does and just take the money away from those that need it the most like the billions he wants to take from Medicare and Medicade to fund his bogus war instead of raising taxes of those that can afford it the most. Since most of them are Republicans, they like you should be more than willing to support the war your God started. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving tred and false promises from liberal politicians. > LOL, sorry Miles, but the right are the kings of hatred. Look what they did > to this country now and what they did to Clinton out of nothing but fear. Clinton deserved it. No president should lie under oath to a grand jury no matter what the circumstances are and people like you make excuses for him to do so. I know you loved Clinton but he was horrible. The economy had nothing to do with any thing he himself did. And it was a doomed economy anyways no matter what your liberal bandwagon rhetoric says. > This country was and to a degree still is a laughing stock to many other > countries due to that. Too bad. Clinton sold us out to China and N. Korea and you just shrug your shoulders and laugh at that. It's a sad day when politicians sell out to other countries out of fear of being laughed at. > Oh yea, and the right always has, LOL! Sorry Miles, but it very much has to > do with the right and the idiot that we have for a President. lol, everythings the rights and Bush's fault. Geez Tbone, typical liberal to always blame others. The Dems have not delivered on their promises. They have made no attempt to. Heck, they blasted Bush at his budget cuts wanting to spend even more. They campaigned to get the budget cut...ya, it's Bush's fault they wish to spend considerably more than he does. > Yea, right. How exactly are they going to do anything without spending > money? Huh? I see. The way to make things right is to spend more money. Good grief. Only in a liberals world!! The Dems Pelosi and company campaigned to CUT spending. They named several areas they wished to trim from the budget. Yet, they did the opposite. They wanted to increase the budget considerably. Your ilk blasts Bush for spending too much then rants that to make things better we need to spend more. Too funny. > I guess that you would rather do as our president does and just take > the money away from those that need it the most like the billions he wants > to take from Medicare and Medicade to fund his bogus war instead of raising > taxes of those that can afford it the most. Since most of them are > Republicans, they like you should be more than willing to support the war > your God started. The war isn't part of the Budget the Dems wish to increase. No matter where you make cuts somebody isn't going to like it. Yet the Dems capaigned to do just that and then reversed once they got into power and you sit here and defend them on both what they campaigned on and what they are doing. To faced Tbone! > tred and false promises from liberal politicians. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > no matter what the circumstances are and people like you make excuses for > him to do so. Oh please Miles, more right wing bullshit. Why was he even asked that? What purpose did it serve? You would have done exactly the same thing and just about everyone on the planet knows that the whole thing was a setup. The right was scared to deth of him becaused during his term, he more than proved that the right was completely full of sh.t and Bush more than proved it. > I know you loved Clinton but he was horrible. The economy had nothing to > do with any thing he himself did. And it was a doomed economy anyways no > matter what your liberal bandwagon rhetoric says. Doomed in what way? More right wing crap. >> This country was and to a degree still is a laughing stock to many other >> countries due to that. > > Too bad. Clinton sold us out to China and N. Korea and you just shrug > your shoulders and laugh at that. It's a sad day when politicians sell > out to other countries out of fear of being laughed at. How exactly did he sell us out and what exactly should he have done? >> Oh yea, and the right always has, LOL! Sorry Miles, but it very much has >> to do with the right and the idiot that we have for a President. > > lol, everythings the rights and Bush's fault. Yep, they have been the ones in power for the longest for the last 12 years. > Geez Tbone, typical liberal to always blame others. Sorry Miles, but that's the way of the right as well and they are much better at it. > The Dems have not delivered on their promises. They have made no attempt > to. See what I mean. You are convinced that they have made no attempts but seem to ignore the fact that Bush did'nt veto a single bill until the Dems took control of congress. Sorry Miles, but as usual, you are wrong again. > Heck, they blasted Bush at his budget cuts wanting to spend even more. Because most of Bush's budget cuts are aimed at the poor and social programs as well as state aid. > They campaigned to get the budget cut...ya, it's Bush's fault they wish to > spend considerably more than he does. No, thew wish it spent differently but we are locked into a war that will take years to get out of and wars cost money. >> Yea, right. How exactly are they going to do anything without spending >> money? > > Huh? I see. The way to make things right is to spend more money. Good > grief. Only in a liberals world!! Once again, your ignorance more than shows itself. The way to make things right is to spend the money where it is needed. Unfortunantly, we are locked into billions of wasted spending in a war that never should have happened. > The Dems Pelosi and company campaigned to CUT spending. They named > several areas they wished to trim from the budget. Yet, they did the > opposite. They wanted to increase the budget considerably. Your ilk > blasts Bush for spending too much then rants that to make things better we > need to spend more. Too funny. LOL, lets see you back up this complete bullshit. The areas that they wished to trim th budget on are the very ones that the pinhead threatened to veto and then blame them for stopping progress. >> I guess that you would rather do as our president does and just take the >> money away from those that need it the most like the billions he wants to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The war isn't part of the Budget the Dems wish to increase. No sh.t sherlock, but Bush has no trouble cutting the Medicade and Medicare budjets to fund it as well as many other social programs. > No matter where you make cuts somebody isn't going to like it. Sadly, many of Bush's cuts will cause much more harm then people just not liking it. > Yet the Dems capaigned to do just that and then reversed once they got > into power and you sit here and defend them on both what they campaigned > on and what they are doing. To faced Tbone! Any way that you want to spin it, when the Dems try, Bush just veto's or threatens to veto if it reaches his desk. SignatureIf at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving > Oh please Miles, more right wing bullshit. Why was he even asked that? Because he was being investigated for sexual harassment. He was asked to show what kind of a character he truly is and that he had a habit of such behavior. > What purpose did it serve? You would have done exactly the same thing and > just about everyone on the planet knows that the whole thing was a setup. Setup? Clinton had scores of women accusing him of improper behavior long before he got into the WH. The guy was pure scum in this regard and you declare him innocent? |
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