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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / March 2008Polishing a t*rd
Yesterday, I took my 1992 Dodge Dakota's passenger side door apart to see if I could fix it so that my key would work the lock button again. Sure enough, I discovered that a rod coming out of the back of the key tumbler had become disconnected from a lever which operates the lock button and door lock. It had become disconnected because it was originally held on with a cheap, plastic keeper that was doomed from the start to fail at some point due to its inevitable material decomposition. I replaced it with a suitably sized and slightly modified metal throttle linkage keeper and now it will never come apart again. However, while I had the door apart, I noticed that there are other such plastic keepers used in other places, so this is probably going to be an ongoing problem over time with other connections. Chrysler could just have easily have used a metal part. That they didn't shows me just how truthful that "Quality Engineered by Chrysler" label on the floor really is. I know, I know, I can hear the standard reply now, "It was done to save weight and contribute to improving mileage." Bullshit. The total amount of weight saved couldn't have been more than a couple hundred milligrams. It was done to contribute to planned obsolescence and for no other reason. <rant> As the friend who traded this thing for my Husky dirtbike said when I told him I was repairing such problems, "John, you can only polish a turd so much." He refuses to buy any more Dodge products and has moved over to being a Ford man. Don't know if that's any better but he hasn't complained about either his pickup or his new Focus. It's doubtful that it will be possible to get the Dakota's emissions down to a level that will pass I&M without having to spend several hundred dollars or even over 1k to do so. That being the case, I would then be stuck with an immovable white elephant taking up space unless I were able to sell it to a junkyard. I hope Dodge is building their rigs a lot better these days. If they're not, they're going to head the way of the dodo. Word spreads and they seemed to have totally forgotten this back in 1992. Maybe they've wised up since. I certainly hope so. </rant> By the way, I read somewhere that you can reset the "Check Engine" light on these particular models (my '92 Dakota) by disconnecting the negative terminal on the battery, then turning on the ignition key for 20 seconds. Has anybody else heard or done that? TIA.  SignatureJohn Corliss > He refuses to buy any more Dodge products and has moved over to being a > Ford man. Don't look now, but they use the same plastic clips on their door linkages, too... > By the way, I read somewhere that you can reset the "Check Engine" light > on these particular models (my '92 Dakota) by disconnecting the negative > terminal on the battery, then turning on the ignition key for 20 seconds. > Has anybody else heard or done that? Just disconnecting the battery for a few minutes will do it, but I suppose turning on the ignition circuits will bleed out the capacitors in the electronics quicker. >> He refuses to buy any more Dodge products and has moved over to being a >> Ford man. > > Don't look now, but they use the same plastic clips on their door linkages, > too... Yep, as I said: >> However, while I had the door apart, I noticed that there are other such >> plastic keepers used in other places, so this is probably going to be an >> ongoing problem over time with other connections. That was what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clearer. >> By the way, I read somewhere that you can reset the "Check Engine" light >> on these particular models (my '92 Dakota) by disconnecting the negative >> terminal on the battery, then turning on the ignition key for 20 seconds. >> Has anybody else heard or done that? > > Just disconnecting the battery for a few minutes will do it, 'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for about 45 minutes. When I reconnected them and started the truck, that damned light was still there. > but I suppose turning on the ignition circuits will bleed out the capacitors > in the electronics quicker. I figger the same. Then the error codes (of which there are some at this point) should re-establish themselves once I drive the truck somewhere. SignatureJohn Corliss > 'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables > the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for about > 45 minutes. When I reconnected them and started the truck, that damned > light was still there. Well, if the condition still exists that caused it to trip in the first place, then it's going to come back on. Pull the codes, and see what it's complaining about. >> 'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables >> the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for about [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > place, then it's going to come back on. Pull the codes, and see what it's > complaining about. I messed up. It's not the Engine light on the left, it's the light that tells you to replace the Oxygen sensor, "Maintenance Needed" on the right. There is only one Fault Code present at this time, and it's 12 (that the battery has been disconnected recently). I'll check the fault codes again after I drive the truck some more. SignatureJohn Corliss > >> 'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables > >> the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for about [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I messed up. It's not the Engine light on the left, it's the light that > tells you to replace the Oxygen sensor, "Maintenance Needed" on the right. You'll need a scan tool to turn that light off. > There is only one Fault Code present at this time, and it's 12 (that the > battery has been disconnected recently). I'll check the fault codes > again after I drive the truck some more. If the check engine light wasn't on before, why would you expect new fault codes? >>>> 'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables >>>> the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for about [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If the check engine light wasn't on before, why would you expect > new fault codes? Thanks for that. Sometimes the obvious eludes me. Bear in mind though, I'm a total newbie at this computerized vehicle stuff. Up to now, the newest rig I've owned is my '81 Ford F-150. And you're right, the check engine light WASN'T on before. SignatureJohn Corliss > I messed up. It's not the Engine light on the left, it's the light that > tells you to replace the Oxygen sensor, "Maintenance Needed" on the right. That light's got absolutely nothing to do with the O2 sensors, nor any other part of the emissions system. It's triggered by time, and it just a dumb "reminder" to bring the vehicle in for service. It's pretty much useless. If an O2 sensor were failing, that would indeed light up the "Check Engine" light. IIRC, those codes are somewhere in the twenties on the OBD-I systems. >> I messed up. It's not the Engine light on the left, it's the light that >> tells you to replace the Oxygen sensor, "Maintenance Needed" on the right. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > light. IIRC, those codes are somewhere in the twenties on the OBD-I > systems. Thanks Tom. That's good info to know. And the OBD-I system is what the truck is running then. Too bad, because Harbor Freight has an OBD-II code reader on sale for $40 right now. But I expected that, since OBD-II dates from 1996 and on, I believe. An OBD-I code reader is mighty spendy. And I'm not even sure there's a generic version of them, or is there? Might be that the '92 Dakota's ECM has a proprietary plug. However, since there are no fault codes present at this time, I guess my concerns at this point are limited to figuring out why the motor races whenever the rig is rolling downhill (either direction) and I have my foot off of the accelerator. When I come to a complete stop, the motor races a second and then suddenly starts idling at a normal rate. That and the weird way that my friend was dealing with the radiator and fan. I'm going to get some more info from him and see if I can figure that one out though. SignatureJohn Corliss > An OBD-I code reader is mighty spendy. And I'm not even sure there's a > generic version of them, or is there? Might be that the '92 Dakota's ECM > has a proprietary plug. Yeah, but they're pretty much unnecessary - you can just cycle the key and count the number of times the Check Engine light flashes. This procedure should work on your truck, if it becomes necessary: http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Trouble/pcm_fault_code.htm >> An OBD-I code reader is mighty spendy. And I'm not even sure there's a >> generic version of them, or is there? Might be that the '92 Dakota's ECM [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Trouble/pcm_fault_code.htm That's what I've been doing (instructions are in the Haynes manual my friend gave me with the truck.) But as aarcuda69062 pointed out, if the Check Engine light hasn't been coming on (and it hasn't) I don't really need to check for error codes anyway. SignatureJohn Corliss > That's what I've been doing (instructions are in the Haynes manual my > friend gave me with the truck.) But as aarcuda69062 pointed out, if the > Check Engine light hasn't been coming on (and it hasn't) I don't really > need to check for error codes anyway. Well, not entirely true. There are codes that can get set that won't illuminate the CE light. >> That's what I've been doing (instructions are in the Haynes manual my >> friend gave me with the truck.) But as aarcuda69062 pointed out, if the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well, not entirely true. There are codes that can get set that won't > illuminate the CE light. Well, I know that the 12 code (battery has recently been disconnected) won't light the CE indicator. My Haynes manual lists all the fault codes, but doesn't say which ones do or don't turn on that light. SignatureJohn Corliss > Well, I know that the 12 code (battery has recently been disconnected) > won't light the CE indicator. My Haynes manual lists all the fault codes, > but doesn't say which ones do or don't turn on that light. Try the link I posted. It does. >> Well, I know that the 12 code (battery has recently been disconnected) >> won't light the CE indicator. My Haynes manual lists all the fault codes, >> but doesn't say which ones do or don't turn on that light. > > Try the link I posted. It does. I just learned last night that my friend has been running the truck without a thermostat. That's why he was blocking the radiator off with pieces of cardboard. He took it out because the truck kept blowing head gaskets by cyl. 2. His theory was that the backpressure from the operational thermostat contributed to the head gasket blowing. But first, he had the head boiled while it was off and left the coolant temperature sensor in it. Shortly after he put the head back on, he noticed that the fan refused to come on so he bought a new CTS that was made in Mexico. It made no difference, so he bought another one made in Pennysylvania. It's in there now, but the fan still didn't come on and the truck would overheat. After he figured out this was happening, he removed the thermostat and started using the cardboard system. This has GOT to be generating some kind of code, but when I disconnected the battery I wiped any codes out for the time being. SignatureJohn Corliss >>> I messed up. It's not the Engine light on the left, it's the light >>> that tells you to replace the Oxygen sensor, "Maintenance Needed" on [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > generic version of them, or is there? Might be that the '92 Dakota's ECM > has a proprietary plug. Should be cheaper than OBDII. My EQUUS OBD-II reader was around $100, works decent, so I checked their site to see what they might have for you. http://www.iequus.com/products.php?category_id=1_10_3 There's a reader for GM, one for Ford, one for Imports, and... the one for Chrysler isn't merely a code reader, it's a "Code Reading System"! Oh boy. http://www.iequus.com/product_info.php?product_id=3165&category_id=1_10_3 I clicked "enlarge image", zoomed in on that some more, and could read on the packaging that the procedure is to "Cycle Vehicle's Ignition Key" then "Read Fault Codes" then refer to booklet to "Pinpoint Problems" There's no code reader at all, it's just a pamphlet with the codes listed. And you can find that info for free. > However, since there are no fault codes present at this time, I guess my > concerns at this point are limited to figuring out why the motor races [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fan. I'm going to get some more info from him and see if I can figure > that one out though. >>>> I messed up. It's not the Engine light on the left, it's the light >>>> that tells you to replace the Oxygen sensor, "Maintenance Needed" on [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > listed. And you can find that info for free. (my stuff after this is > clipped) Thanks for finding this site. I've sent them a message on their contact page asking for clarification regarding why I should spend $39.86 on that item, and what is included in addition to a description of fault codes. I'll be very surprised if I get a reply from them. SignatureJohn Corliss >'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables >the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for >about 45 minutes. When I reconnected them and started the truck, that >damned light was still there. Because the problem was detected again on the restart? >> 'Fraid not. I just cleaned and treated the battery terminals and cables >> the other day. In the process, the cables were both disconnected for >> about 45 minutes. When I reconnected them and started the truck, that >> damned light was still there. > > Because the problem was detected again on the restart? Sorry, I was referring to the wrong light. It's the "Main Reqd" light, not the "Check Engine" one. SignatureJohn Corliss BS206. I use nFilter to block all crossposts, everything from troublemakers like Andy Mabbett, Bear Bottoms, gavin, hummingbird, Kayman and proteanthread, and all Google Groups posts because of Googlespam. No ad, cd, commercial, cripple, demo, dotnet, nag, share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares OR warez for me, please. Move to NC....nothing older than 95 has to get an emissions inspection. >>> He refuses to buy any more Dodge products and has moved over to being a >>> Ford man. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I figger the same. Then the error codes (of which there are some at this > point) should re-establish themselves once I drive the truck somewhere. John, We benefit greatly in the price we pay for inovations like these most wonderful plastic clips. They can't be that bad. The vehicle is a '92 and this is the first one to fail? I can remember rusty set screws in my Fords and Oldmobiles in the 50's. Don't look now, but everybody is using these things, not just Chrysler. Even the exotic and really expensive cars use plastics extensively today and today's cars ARE better than yesteryear's and guess what... ...the number one reason is improvements in material technology. Steve > Yesterday, I took my 1992 Dodge Dakota's passenger side door apart to see > if I could fix it so that my key would work the lock button again. Sure [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > TIA. > John, > We benefit greatly in the price we pay for inovations like these most [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > technology. > Steve Steve, you're right. The rig IS 18 years old! Guess I should be more tolerant. After all, Merle Haggard sang, "I wish a Ford and a Chevy, would still last 10 years... like they should." That metal throttle linkage clip I used IS a better idea though. I don't expect it to fail any time soon. >> Yesterday, I took my 1992 Dodge Dakota's passenger side door apart to see >> if I could fix it so that my key would work the lock button again. Sure [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> TIA. SignatureJohn Corliss BS206 >Yesterday, I took my 1992 Dodge Dakota's passenger side door apart to >see if I could fix it so that my key would work the lock button again. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >originally held on with a cheap, plastic keeper that was doomed from the >start to fail at some point due to its inevitable material decomposition. Only lasted 16 years? I'd be pissed.. mac Please remove splinters before emailing "mac davis" <macsplinters@davisbaja.com> wrote in message <snip> > Only lasted 16 years? > I'd be pissed.. > > mac the dash in my 91 dakota is starting to crack. recently i had to replace one of the plastic retainers on a windshield wiper mechanism. i think i may just call mopar and give them a piece of my mind. if they had built these parts out of metal they would have been all rusty and i could be having to grind them off or drill them out before i replaced them. maybe i'll just go buy a six ohh powerstroke ford instead. my dodge trucks are not breaking often enough to keep me busy. i did have to change the oil on the 97 ram today and decided to grease the front end while i was at it. the only plastic part i encountered in this adventure was the washer on the oil drain plug and it hasn't broken yet but i am waiting for it to so i can gripe about it. ;-) michael >> Yesterday, I took my 1992 Dodge Dakota's passenger side door apart to >> see if I could fix it so that my key would work the lock button again. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Please remove splinters before emailing Ahs disbusted. At any rate, I don't expect that metal clip I used to give up the ghost any time soon. SignatureJohn Corliss > Yesterday, I took my 1992 Dodge Dakota's passenger side door apart to > see if I could fix it so that my key would work the lock button again. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > TIA. 1. I was cranky and it was too early. 2. The truck IS 16 years old. 3. I was able to get the door apart very easily and do the repair. 4. When my friend said, "John, you can only polish a turd so much" he was mainly referring to me beating out a dent on a vehicle with a very bad looking paint job. 5. The paint is bad because my friend never EVER washed the truck in the whole time he owned it, TTBOMK. When you do that, and the truck sits out in the Oregon rain all the time, the paint is bound to go bad. The truck starts and the motor runs well. Only real problem is that the motor races a little for some reason when I coast down the hill with my foot off the gas, or roll backwards, again in neutral and with my foot off the gas. I talked on the phone to a Lithia Dodge service tech today and he said that he's never heard of such a problem in over 20 years of working on Dodges. Said that I should clean my throttle body, but I see it as some kind of sensor related issue. SignatureJohn Corliss > working on Dodges. Said that I should clean my throttle body, but I see it > as some kind of sensor related issue. Clean it anyway... can't hurt... will probably help. If the paint never got washed in 16 years, just think how cruddy the TB must be. >> working on Dodges. Said that I should clean my throttle body, but I see it >> as some kind of sensor related issue. > > Clean it anyway... can't hurt... will probably help. If the paint never > got washed in 16 years, just think how cruddy the TB must be. I've run some injector cleaner through it and my friend did so regularly. This helps, but of course taking the TB apart and cleaning it is probably a good idea. And I *did* wash it, but the paint is so course in places that it shredded my cotton wash pad and left lint all over the rig. No biggie though, I found a can of acrylic enamel at the local NAPA. It matches the Colorado Red color almost exactly. Will be sanding the bad spots down, rattle can primering them and then touching them up with that can of red AE. If that doesn't work (and I'm very good at rattle can painting) then I'll get a spray gun, some paint and spray the truck myself. Now THAT'S how to "polish a turd"! SignatureJohn Corliss >>> working on Dodges. Said that I should clean my throttle body, but I >>> see it as some kind of sensor related issue. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And I *did* wash it, but the paint is so course Eh... make that "coarse", not "course". > in places that it > shredded my cotton wash pad and left lint all over the rig. No biggie [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Now THAT'S how to "polish a turd"! SignatureJohn Corliss
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