The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
resources, the better.
The Earth is a limited sphere with a superficial crust relative to its
total size. On average the crust is 20 miles thick vs. the planet's
7,900 mile diameter. Under the oceans, where the most desperate oil
drilling occurs, the crust is as thin as 3 miles. Oil and other fossil
fuels exist only within that crust, and were depleted past the halfway
"peak" in America around 1970. Once peak production is passed,
extraction costs rise. There is no getting around it. The issue is
WHEN, not if, a peak will occur.
The current high price of oil is likely signaling a peak in global
supplies, which means life is going to get more difficult and no
amount of whining will create easy oil out of nothing. Most of the oil
we use was formed in two periods 90 and 150 million years ago, and the
existence of "abiotic" oil has never been proved. Cheap oil created
the illusion of resource plenitude by making people misunderstand the
difference between capital and income (finite vs. renewable energy).
The huge scale of modern life was mostly built on finite oil, with no
assurance that other sources can replace it.
After the global peak, nature will set the price of oil, and it's
probably happening now. That price includes tar sands (bitumen) and
oil shale, which require much higher energy inputs to extract usable
liquid. In the case of shale, they still haven't found a way to break
even, and most of it won't yield pure gasoline, just diesel, kerosene,
etc.. Tearing up vast areas of Utah, Colorado and Wyoming is not a
sane solution. The economy is sick if it must be a constant land-
parasite.
Thanks to mindless population growth of 75 million annually
(worldwide), oil consumption will keep increasing unless radical
conservation measures are taken. World oil consumption is about 87
million barrels per day (an 11,200 acre-foot lake) and will easily top
100 million barrels/day as we blindly attempt to support 9 or 10
billion people by mid-century. Replacement-level birth control is the
best technological solution to resource shortages, but people get
offended at that notion. They can't think beyond their own wants.
Keep all of this in mind as you invent conspiracy theories and whine
about your "right" to cheap, easy fuel for ego-trucks and powerboats
while your truck/SUV hauls air most of the year, or carries passengers
who could live with something smaller or not hoard so much junk in the
first place. People themselves are getting fatter in an ironic
symbiosis with economic growthism. Conservation is still a joke among
most Americans. They only do it when prices force them to.
The ignorant, tattooed masses, listening to Rush Limbaugh while trying
to one-up their neighbors' horsepower, are blind to what's really
going on with oil. They are obsessed with money this, money that, but
they should be studying geology and biology. Many take pride in NOT
knowing the fundamentals of life beyond their immediate needs. "Stop
with that intelekshual stuff and pass me a beer!"
Nature doesn't owe anyone a living, and there is no birthright to V-8
engines and easy wages in the transport industry. No amount of
sneering at environmental laws will change that fact. More drilling in
Alaska won't make us "independent" from anything. It's all in the
math. The U.S. uses 21 million barrels of oil a day, which is a
billion barrels in under 50 days. That would deplete a best-case ANWR
scenario of 10 billion barrels in under 500 days, and U.S. consumption
keeps rising as the population grows by 3 million annually.
Some energy alternatives look good on paper but still can't touch the
massive scale of oil. Old fashioned conservatism and thrift is the
immediate answer to our energy problems, not a greed-based agenda that
assumes endless abundance. The old frontiers have already yielded most
of their bounty. Destroying more of nature is not the solution to
problems caused by gluttony and ignorance of limits.
E.A.
http://enough_already.tripod.com/
Earth to human race: Drop some of your needs!
Steve Lusardi - 22 Jun 2008 12:24 GMT
What year is your Dodge?
Steve
> The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
> resources, the better.
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> Earth to human race: Drop some of your needs!
Bill - 22 Jun 2008 13:44 GMT
I make it about a 1969.
He must really feel bad about using all that gas.
> What year is your Dodge?
> Steve
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>>
>> Earth to human race: Drop some of your needs!
asadi - 22 Jun 2008 15:18 GMT
> The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
> resources, the better.
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> Earth to human race: Drop some of your needs!
So well said you are already getting replies from the people you spoke of!
john
Bob Drake - 23 Jun 2008 16:03 GMT
>> The Earth is a limited sphere with a superficial crust relative to its
>> total size. On average the crust is 20 miles thick vs. the planet's
>> 7,900 mile diameter. Under the oceans, where the most desperate oil
>> drilling occurs, the crust is as thin as 3 miles. Oil and other fossil
>> ...
> So well said you are already getting replies from the people you spoke
> of!\> john
I would like to add that drilling for oil in the US is a fool's errand.
Until we learn to conserve,
the oil is best left in the ground for future generations. It will increase
in value far faster than
the stock market.
Buy arab oil with depreciating paper dollars.
Bob
Rashputin - 23 Jun 2008 19:01 GMT
>>> The Earth is a limited sphere with a superficial crust relative to its
>>> total size. On average the crust is 20 miles thick vs. the planet's
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Bob
Oddly enough, that's exactly why Intelligence agencies said, "use
theirs first" all the way back under Eisenhower. If, as the Russians think,
it renews itself over time and isn't ever going to run out, fine. If it's
finite, then we'll be among the last to have reserves. I wouldn't put it
past the House of Saud to manipulate the market to make the price crash to
well below what anyone thinks is possible and then hold it there long enough
instill fear in even the biggest speculators. They build OPEC to control
the price of oil and have no intention of letting speculators take that
control out of their hands.
have a nice day
Miles - 24 Jun 2008 02:47 GMT
> Oddly enough, that's exactly why Intelligence agencies said, "use
> theirs first" all the way back under Eisenhower. If, as the Russians think,
> it renews itself over time and isn't ever going to run out, fine. If it's
> finite, then we'll be among the last to have reserves.
We should at the very least know what we have by allowing exploration.
asadi - 24 Jun 2008 03:57 GMT
>> Oddly enough, that's exactly why Intelligence agencies said, "use
>> theirs first" all the way back under Eisenhower. If, as the Russians
>> think, it renews itself over time and isn't ever going to run out, fine.
>> If it's finite, then we'll be among the last to have reserves.
>
> We should at the very least know what we have by allowing exploration.
Trust me....we know...
smarter people here than I thought!
john
4546@mydaja.com - 22 Jun 2008 18:24 GMT
>The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
>resources, the better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLd_xUUR4Bg&eurl=http://www.americansolutions.com
/actioncenter/petitions/?Guid=54ec6e43-75a8-445b-aa7b-346a1e096659
4546@mydaja.com - 22 Jun 2008 18:27 GMT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPch2k63uj4
RM v2.0 - 23 Jun 2008 17:17 GMT
So much error and conjecture, where to start?
> The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
> resources, the better.
WTF? "protest finite resources"?
> The Earth is a limited sphere with a superficial crust relative to its
> total size. On average the crust is 20 miles thick vs. the planet's
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> extraction costs rise. There is no getting around it. The issue is
> WHEN, not if, a peak will occur.
Speculation and guesswork. No one has any f.cking clue where all oil resides
and how much there is left. Plus, is made from all fossils including plants
so is in fact renewing constantly.
> The current high price of oil is likely signaling a peak in global
> supplies,
No, the current price is due to specualtors driving it up, even the damn
Saudis are saying it is uncalled for.
Rest of drivel snipped.
Columbotrek - 23 Jun 2008 22:38 GMT
Your entire argument is based on one flawed assumption. That
hydrocarbons are from fossils and are finite.
Space exploration has proven that hydrocarbons exist in huge amounts on
far away worlds. Methane oceans cover Saturn's Moon Titian. Methane can
be changed into more complex forms of hydrocarbons with heat and
pressure. Resources abundant within the interior of the earth. Vast
untapped petroleum fields exist under the Gulf of Mexico and in the
Arctic as well as off the coast of California. Old thought to be tapped
out wells are finding new life as they are brought back into production.
The only peak oil problem we will have will be for a lack of drilling
because of the likes of you.
We have been drilling oil for over 100 years now and known sources of
hydrocarbons are projected to last 200 years more. Its hardly the
emergency the communists hope to make the gullible believe in. Past
chicken littles have declared peak oil several times in the past. I am
old enough to remember we were supposed to be out of oil by the early
80s. Their is more known oil under ground now than has been pumped in
the last 100 years. Must have been a lot of primordial soup lakes do
doubt to have supplied the multi trillions of barrels mined and yet to
be mined.
The high prices we see today are the result of all the useful idiots
blocking every attempt at increasing domestic production creating false
scarcity.
The protests you are bemoaning are caused because people are realizing
that this false scarcity is a sham and they want this game to be over.
> The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
> resources, the better.
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>
> Earth to human race: Drop some of your needs!
Rodan - 24 Jun 2008 01:45 GMT
Enough Already wrote:
<..... Standard Communist harangue against enjoyment of
the fruits of one's own labor. A call for cult-like self-denial
and a return to a primitive lifestyle. A demand for severe
government actions against immoral consumers to bring
about the proper distribution of natural resources to the
financially deprived masses ......>
____________________________________________________
The only part of his planned solution he hasn't disclosed yet
is the forced re-education camps for those who disagree.
Pol Pot would have been proud.
Rodan.
Steve Lusardi - 24 Jun 2008 22:45 GMT
These ignorant folks think scientific discovery can be legislated. Until new
energy resources become available, our very safety, security and economic
well being depends on oil. Until that occurs, not securing our source of
energy supply is exceedingly foolish and shortsighted. Of course we need to
develope new oil fields. Now tapping into those resources before an
emergency is another question, but if we do have a national emergency there
will be no time to do it then.
Steve
> The sooner people get over the notion that they can protest finite
> resources, the better.
>
> drival snipped
NapalmHeart - 25 Jun 2008 01:10 GMT
> These ignorant folks think scientific discovery can be
> legislated. Until new energy resources become available,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> will be no time to do it then.
> Steve
Many of the ignorant want us to be in a position where
there's no time to do anything. They want the destruction
of the current Western culture. What they fail to recognize
is that they will be some of the first executed by their new
masters.
Ken