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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / September 2008Propane/Diesel systems
What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane to diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins turbo. A friend of mine has a car lot. His dad is in the business of doing these conversions. Of course, he says mileage increases, wear decreases, and it will do everything but give you an orgasm. Input, info, and experience appreciated. I Googled propane/diesel conversions, and there is a lot of positive information there. I'd just like to hear from the real users. Steve  Signature"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly, not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done." Theodore Roosevelt 1891 > What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane > to diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > conversions, and there is a lot of positive information there. I'd just > like to hear from the real users. Why would anyone mix Propane, that has only 91000 Btu/gallon of energy, with diesel that has 130500 Btu/gallon ? Sounds like a scam to me. > Steve >> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane >> to diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Sounds like a scam to me. Not a scam, it does work... It is a way of dumping *more* fuel into the cylinders. >>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane >>> to diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Not a scam, it does work... It is a way of dumping *more* fuel into > the cylinders. Not likey, since just dumping more fuel into a cyclunder doe snot constitute more power. Since the chemical formula for Propane is: C3H8 and diesel is C12H23, you can tell you are already putting more energy into the cyclinders via diesel. By adding Propane, you are displacing oxygen mixture, thus creating unbalanced burn, hence less fuel burned. >> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:28:23 -0500, "GeekBoy" >> <geekboy@geeksrus.com> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > mixture, thus creating unbalanced burn, hence > less fuel burned. Propane Injection is a common power-adder trick for diesel pulling tractors. >>>>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add >>>>> propane [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Propane Injection is a common power-adder trick for diesel pulling > tractors. Basic chemistry says otherwise. >>>>>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add >>>>>> propane [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Basic chemistry says otherwise. Gee, maybe you should research the topic a bit? >>>>>>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add >>>>>>> propane [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Gee, maybe you should research the topic a bit? No need <snip> >>>> Propane Injection is a common power-adder trick for diesel pulling >>>> tractors. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No need apparently geeks are never wrong, or at least won't admit they are wrong. just because something does not fit your preconcieved notions or misinterpretation of high school chemistry does not mean it will not work. your math is assuming that a traditional diesel engine is 100% efficient. they are not, but injecting propane increases the engines ability to burn more of the fuel poured on the fire. michael >>>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:28:23 -0500, "GeekBoy" >>>> <geekboy@geeksrus.com> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Basic chemistry says otherwise. I can't help that, I just know what I've seen them use. It makes a noticeable difference in the power output, as has been stated, comparable to nitrous with a gas engine. Ken >>>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:28:23 -0500, "GeekBoy" >>>> <geekboy@geeksrus.com> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Basic chemistry says otherwise. It's been about 30 years since I studied any chemistry, but something tells me you calculations aren't correct. When you see a tractor starting to bog down and lose torque, then the operator hits the LP button and the tractor lifts the front tires off the ground and starts pulling hard again it's obvious that the engine is making more power with the addition of propane. Ken >>>> By adding Propane, you are displacing oxygen >>>> mixture, thus creating unbalanced burn, hence [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > chemistry, but something tells me you calculations > aren't correct. His basic chemistry is correct. His understanding of diesel engines is not. Unbalanced burn? Yeah, right. You sure don't want to disrupt that finicky diesel air/fuel ratio. SignatureThe other Ken >>>>> By adding Propane, you are displacing oxygen >>>>> mixture, thus creating unbalanced burn, hence [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Unbalanced burn? Yeah, right. You sure don't want to disrupt that finicky >diesel air/fuel ratio. I unbalanced the fuel/air ratio on my way home today... The funny thing is that I went faster when that happened! <g> >>>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add >>>> propane [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Not likey, since just dumping more fuel into a cyclunder doe snot > constitute more power. Oh, so larger inj. that flow more fuel don't add power? So fuel box's don't work either? >>>>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add >>>>> propane [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Oh, so larger inj. that flow more fuel don't add power? So fuel box's don't >work either? Careful, Roy, he's an expert... <g> >>>>>> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add >>>>>> propane [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Careful, Roy, he's an expert... <g> Yup he's going to rewrite the book on diesel mod's >> What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane >> to diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Sounds like a scam to me. NOPE, Been around and in use for years. The propane mixes with the unburnt diesel in the engine and allows more complete combustion. On a basic unmolested diesel you can see 50-75 HP without any real work. The problem is that in many states propane isn't sold directly as a motor fuel, so you have to make sure you pay the required road tax yourself. Running at the baseline setting on most of the units (around 2-3cfm of gas) you will use one 20 pound tank of propane for every 2-3 tanks of diesel. SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York > The problem is that in many states propane isn't sold directly > as a motor fuel, so you have to make sure you pay the required road > tax yourself. I'll start paying the road tax on my alternative fuel as soon as the hybrid owners start paying road tax on the electricity they use to charge up their batteries. SignatureKen >> The problem is that in many states propane isn't sold directly >> as a motor fuel, so you have to make sure you pay the required road [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > hybrid owners start paying road tax on the electricity they use to charge > up their batteries. Wifes Toyota is recharged by the gas engine.<G> Roy > Wifes Toy is recharged by the gas engine.<G> ;^) >> Wifes Toy is recharged by the gas engine.<G> > > ;^) I don't run on gas<G> But we run when you have it. :^) Signature------------------------------------------ Laszlo Almasi ----Cool Toys (formerly Carolina Watercraft Works) ----Mack Daddy Trailers ----Ice Angels >>> Wifes Toy is recharged by the gas engine.<G> >> >> ;^) > > I don't run on gas<G> > But we run when you have it. :^) Okay!! The mob is starting to appear. Where's the old hippy and the wide ride, talking about gas.<G> Roy >> But we run when you have it. :^) > > Okay!! The mob is starting to appear. Where's the old hippy and the wide > ride, talking about gas.<G> > > Roy They may not have donned their mask in time. FMB (North Mexico) >What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane to >diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins turbo. > >A friend of mine has a car lot. His dad is in the business of doing these >conversions. Of course, he says mileage increases, wear decreases, and it >will do everything but give you an orgasm. Not true! Given the right circumstances, orgasms are possible this way... >Input, info, and experience appreciated. I Googled propane/diesel >conversions, and there is a lot of positive information there. I'd just >like to hear from the real users. Well, I"m not a 'real user' so you can discount my advice. However, friends who have these systems do report increased power (similar effect to nox in a gas engine) though the systems seem best for short bursts and not for continous usage. You may be better off (at least initially) by using other performance bossting techniques (bigger exhaust, for example). Also consider the issues of filling that propane tank (and a full propane tank won't last that long), and in some areas you may be banned from some tunnels. If you do do it, please preport back! Let us know how well it works. >Steve Steve, The only reason this is done is for power. It has the same effect as increasing the rail pressure or changing the injector size, except it maybe cheaper. The down side is the loss of storage space to carry the propane tank and the additional weight. It does not increase mileage or efficiency. Although, you will see more miles per diesel tankful, you will be consuming the propane and one offsets the other, so there is no net gain. Steve > What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane > to diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Steve > What can anyone tell me about the conversions available that add propane to > diesel fuel in turbo engines? I have a '06 Dodge 2500 with Cummins turbo. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve Propane on a diesel works a lot like nitrous on a gas engine. In the case of nitrous the extra oxygen from the nitrous causes the fuel to burn faster and the added fuel injected with the nitrous adds to that by increasing the cylinder pressure. In the case of propane it adds a faster burning fuel that bonds with the unburnt diesel in the engine and allows it to burn more completely. The soot and extra carbon that comes out of a diesel normally is mostly unburnt fuel. The propane makes it burn in the engine and increases power. The drawbacks are that you have an extra tank to deal with and you need to pay the highway tax on the propane. If you get carried away with it you can also create the same problem as nitrous.... BANG.... SignatureSteve W. Near Cooperstown, New York |
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