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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / January 200922 gallon tank took 23 gallons to fill
A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have never, in the 21 years I have owned the truck, ever seen the tally go above 22 gallons. I have come to be able to read the low end of the gauge pretty good and by my reckoning I had about a gallon in the tank when I pulled in to fill it up, but the pump read 23.004 gallons. I paid with a debit card and got a receipt. Does anyone know who to contact about this sort of thing? I was surprised because this Chevron station was only charging $1.85 while the El Cheapo no-brand station down the street was charging $1.97. And thanks to all who have been kind enough to respond to me concerning problems with MSD ignition. As I mentioned in the thread dealing with it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running great! >A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > surprised because this Chevron station was only charging $1.85 while the > El Cheapo no-brand station down the street was charging $1.97. Depends on where you are ...Texas has a department of weights and measures which should control delivery of commercial materials. There has been a lot of falsification and illegal metering devices, and your station may be fleecing people. Or, not. Never hurts to check. >>A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I >> filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Never hurts to check. If you want to for sure for certain find out if you were taken, put it in writing, and send it certified. All written complaints have to have a written disposition. They will check with this station, and if they're not on the level, they will be fined. It's like zoning stuff. Once you make a phone call or a written statement, they HAVE to send out an inspector. That covers their a.ses. But I have had cars that took more than the owner's manual. I think they round it off, and in many cases, do not rate the capacity all the way to the top of the neck like a lot of consumers fill their tanks. > But I have had cars that took more than the owner's manual. I think they > round it off, and in many cases, do not rate the capacity all the way to > the top of the neck like a lot of consumers fill their tanks. Definitrely true, Steve. I have seen the same thing. If you have long experience with a particular car and suddenly it starts taking more to fill it than it has ever held before, then I would get suspicious, as has the OP I guess. >> But I have had cars that took more than the owner's manual. I think they >> round it off, and in many cases, do not rate the capacity all the way to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it has ever held > before, then I would get suspicious, as has the OP I guess. Most of the time, though, when I get in those running on fumes situations, I'm so glad I got to the gas station under power that I don't even think about it. Steve >A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running > great! Get in touch with: Your states Department of weights and Measures. They use a can that's graduated to half ounce increments for the last half gallon, if the pump is not correct, they will lock it. Then the station will have to get the pump recalibrated, and pay a somewhat hefty fine. RK >A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running > great! I've been told there is a computer program that has made rounds of 'less than honest' stations. It somehow alows the pump to show accurate measurements up to 5 gallons or so, then starts cheating after that. Supposedly, the first few gallons (can't remember if it was 1 or 5 or somewhere inbetween) is accurate to fool the Weights and Measures guy. This supposed program is sold underground (duh) to station owners. "Company Owned" stations would stay away from that kind of thing. Of course, the guy that told me of the program could have been filling me with BS too. If I were you, not only would I contact your state's Weights and Measures guys, but I would also send an email to CVX at conaffrs@Chevron.com and tell them what you told us and include the location of the station. Good luck, FMB (North Mexico) >A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have > never, in the 21 years I have owned the truck, ever seen the tally > go > above 22 gallons. I've owned many vehicles that would hold more gasoline than the tank's rated capacity. My first new car, a Pinto, supposedly had an 11 gallon tank. I routinely got more than 12 gallons in it. My Expedition with a 28 gallon tank often held over 29 when I ran it nearly dry. All tanks include a substantial air pocket to allow room for expansion of the gasoline due to temperature changes. You can easily impinge on this pocket if the vehicle is at a slight angle or the pump nozzle has a higher than normal shut off threshold. My current Nissan Frontier is especially sensitive to front to rear angles. The tank is long and thin. If you park with the nose of the vehicle substantially higher than the rear, you can get a lot more gas in the tank. I keep a gasoline logbook, and the variations in capacity make for some interesting variations in single tank fuel economy averages. There is one station I stop at that has a pretty large slant. If I park uphill one time and downhill the next, I can make the single tank fuel economy average look really good. Of course if I do the reverse, I can make a single tank average look really bad. I suppose it is possible that the station is cheating, so it can't hurt to have it checked, but I think it is most likely you just had a combination of a pump shut off and vehicle angle that let you put a little extra in the tank. One of the most famous gasoline scams was especially clever. The pumps showed the correct amount of gas for the first 5 or 10 gallons and only cheated on larger amounts. This was done to fool the weight and measures officials who checked the pumps. See http://articles.latimes.com/1998/oct/09/local/me-30761. Also in the past, there were scams where the gallons shown were correct, but the multiplication used to calculate the price was wrong. In other words it worked something like 5 gallons of gas being sold for $1 a gallon would show up on the pump display as a total of $5.10 instead of $5. How often do you check the multiplication? I actually check this every time I buy gas, but only after the fact when I enter the purchase in my spreadsheet. Also, it is not clear where you are located. Canada allows for temperature compensation of the fuel measurement. http://www.ooida.com/straight_talk/Temperature%20Compensation%20slides.pdf . Be glad you don't live in Mexico - http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/13/business/fi-stickup13 . Also see: http://www.kvue.com/news/mmcguire/stories/052307kvuegaspumpaccuracy-cb.2771e6f.html Ed > I suppose it is possible that the station is cheating, so it can't hurt to > have it checked, but I think it is most likely you just had a combination > of a pump shut off and vehicle angle that let you put a little extra in > the tank. Normally, filling a tank will result in a little variation in volume for a number of factors. When the OP mentioned "I have never, in the 21 years I have owned the truck, ever seen the tally go above 22 gallons" it raised my suspicions that something might be astray. Since temperature certainly alters the density of gasoline, how do the fuel merchants, technologically, correct to a standard gallon? Is it built into the pump? >> I suppose it is possible that the station is cheating, so it can't >> hurt to have it checked, but I think it is most likely you just had [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > suspicions > that something might be astray. I suppose, but seems more likely this was just the first time that all factors combined to allow an extra gallon in the tank (fuel level especially low, vehicle at a slight angle, pump shutoff allowed for a extra gas, etc.). How often do you run your tank down until you think there is only 1 gallon left? I do it occasionally, but don't recommend it. I looked back at the gas mileage log for my 2003 Expedition. In 100,000 miles of driving, I exceeded the rated gas tank capacity once. And since the vehicle was running when I gassed up, I am sure I had at least one gallon of gas in the tank, probably closer to 1.5. The truck had a miles to empty computer and I never saw it below 25, so that implies close to 2 gallons in the tank. I put over 28 gallons into a tank that supposedly held 28 gallons. This implies to me that it held at least 30 gallons. Plus with plastic tanks (like my Ford and the Dakota use), there is an even greater likelihood that the tank will hold substantially more than it is rated to hold (plastic tanks tend to grow under load more than steel tanks). > Since temperature certainly alters the density of gasoline, how do > the > fuel merchants, technologically, correct to a standard gallon? Is > it > built into the pump? As far as I know, no US states allow for temperature compensation. It is done in Canada. The reference I cited had a pretty good description of the situation (http://www.ooida.com/straight_talk/Temperature%20Compensation%20slides.pdf). Modern pumps handle the compensation electronically. If you know the temperature of the fuel, you can just do simple electronic multiplication to adjust the volume to the 60 degree f standard gallon. Of course when done this way, the tank capacity versus pump reading issue could be magnified. I notice that the pumps at the Costco station I frequent have a sticker stating that there is no temperature compensation. Ed > I notice that the pumps at the Costco station I frequent have a sticker > stating that there is no temperature compensation. > > Ed I have never calculated , although easy enough to do so, how the volume of the tank would decrease as the temperature decreases. Might be an interesting, if not directly important, exercise. > A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running > great! One place just off the highway in northern New Brunswick Canada manage to stuff 86 liters into my 76 liter tank for a cost of almost $140.00 a couple years back. And I drove in there under my own power too.... There is an Esso also at Yonge and Finch on Toronto Canada that regularly can put 80 liters, 82 once, into my 76 liter tank and again I drive there under my own power. Pure rip off a.sholes! Mike >> A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I >> filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Mike Agreed about Ripoff! The amount of fluid expansion (or contraction) is negligible when the tank is underground because the temperature is fairly constant. Up in northern Canada and Alaska the temperature changes are non-existant underground (thinking permafrost). In the lower 48 and southern Canada, once you are below about 5 feet or so (depending on the type of soil) and depending on the material the tank is constructed of, temp change is practically null. http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/gasquiz.html Tip: Fill your tank in the morning, when it's cool outside. DEBATED. Experts disagree about the veracity of this gas-saving tip. While it is true that cooler gas is more dense and compressed, authorities disagree about how much the gas temperature can change in a 24-hour period when it's buried about 10 feet underground. Consumer Reports' Quincy argued that the amount of temperature change is imperceptible or nonexistent. AAA's Laskoski said the amount of difference may not even be enough to fill a shot glass. Others argue the change is much larger. Washington watchdog group Public Citizen's oilwatchdog.org (http://www.oilwatchdog.org/articles/?storyId=5821) says that gas is priced by volume at 60 degrees Fahrenheit, but is often sold to consumers at a much higher temperature. It estimates that U.S. motorists are getting ripped off about $3 billion a year, and that consumers are shortchanged about 760 million gallons of gas per year. According to the site, "When the temperature of gasoline rises above 60 degrees, gasoline expands but gas pumps don't account for the bigger volume, so consumers receive less gasoline than they should." >A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I >filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >surprised because this Chevron station was only charging $1.85 while the >El Cheapo no-brand station down the street was charging $1.97. Depends on what state you are in. Most states have an office of weights and measures that goes around checking these things. Go to another gas station and look for a certification sticker on one of the pumps, and call those guys. --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." >>A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I >>filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > those guys. > --scott Try a phone book or information operator. Steve >>>A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I >>>filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Try a phone book or information operator. Or Google! For instance Google "North Carolina Government Weights and Measures" Ed On 1/5/09 5:56 PM, in article dbx8l.8154$pr6.5040@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com, > A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running > great! In most, if not all cars, there is an expansion space in the top of the tank and if you fill it to the brim, there is also room for about a gallon in the filler neck. It is possible, if you were running on fumes, that it could legitimately take 23 gallons to top it off. Of course it is also possible that the pump was out of calibration. Go back there and look over the pump and see if there is a current certification seal on it anywhere. >A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I >filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running >great! Try http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/DMS/ > A pump at a local Chevron gas station tallied up 23 gallons when I > filled my 1987 Dodge Dakota V6, which has a 22 gallon tank. I have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it, a ballast resistor made all the difference and the truck is running > great! I do not know about Texas, but in Canada, gasoline is sold by weight. As the density of fuel varies with temperature, the metering is corrected so that litres are smaller when it is well below freezing and larger when it feels half-way to boiling. The idea is that each temperature corrected measure of fuel has the same weight. It is possible that you filled your tank at an unusually cold temperature and topped up into the expansion space. However, you still might want to report it, as it will help keep people honest. a miracle ---------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm |
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