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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Trucks / June 2009Cummins TD burning oil at startup...
Hi all, There appears to be a fair amount of knowledge here, so maybe someone can help me out. I have an 04 3500 with the 5.9 HO diesel. It only has about 30K miles on it as I only use it for hauling camper and towing boat. But since my other car died, I'm driving it 40 miles each way to work every day. I've previously never noticed any excessive smoke when starting or running. About a month ago I did my own oil change using Delo (Chevron) 15-40 heavy duty oil for diesel engines. I don't recall the brand of filter. Since then I've noticed a large amount of blue smoke when I first start the engine after it has sat for 6+ hours. After about 15 seconds, the smoke goes away. Occasionally, in conjunction with an unusually high amount of smoke, it will run rough for a few seconds, and then settle down. After 5 seconds, it seems to run normally, with no excessive smoke. At first I thought maybe I had overfilled it with oil. It was at the high end of, but still within, the hash marks. So yesterday (well before it's due for a change) I decided to eat the cost of the oil and try draining and refilling it.this time making sure it's at the low end of the hash marks. The first time I started it after refilling with oil, it blew even more blue smoke than usual and had some difficulty starting. Again, after 5 seconds or so, the smoke cleared up and it ran normally. Obviously I'm getting oil draining into one or more of the cylinders. Since it's still under warranty, I'm planning on taking it in to the dealer. But I'm wondering what would cause something like this? I saw some older posts about using cheap filters containing neoprene causing some problems, but I don't see how that could cause this. Thanks in advance. > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Thanks in advance. Sounds like fuel. Hi, You mean like oil in the fuel? Or fuel from the injectors is draining into one or more of the cylinders after I shut it off? I do use the same station regularly. I live in Oregon, one of the 2 states which doesn't allow self service gas, but this station allows self service diesel. They also have a high volume diesel pump which takes about 15 seconds to fill my tank...very cool. I'll try filling up somewhere else and see if it makes any difference. If anyone else has any thoughts, please share them. Thanks, Ray >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Sounds like fuel. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >> Sounds like fuel. I'm with Roy. Sounds like you may have an injector leaking down into the cylinder after you shut down. Before you start it cold, check your oil level closely. If you have a cracked injector, you will be 'making' oil. If your oil level increases over a period of time, take it in right away as diesel diluted oil isn't a good lubricant. FMB (North Mexico) > If your oil level increases over a period of time, take it in right away > as diesel diluted oil isn't a good lubricant. Take an oil sample and send it to a lab for analysis. Costs about $20. I use Blackstone Labs for my oil analysis - http://www.blackstone-labs.com The report you get back will tell you a lot about how your engine is wearing, and will tell you specifically the amount (if any) of fuel found in the oil. If this is found, you've most likely identified your problem - then let the dealer take care of it. And be quick about it... while your warranty is for 100K miles, it's also for only 5 years. Hi, Thanks Tom and FMB (and Roy). I think I'll do that. $20 seems like a wise investment. And it certainly would be nice to have some documentation to convince the dealer mechanic that repairs are in order, regardless of the specific problem. I was thinking it was the motor oil burning, not diesel, since the color was bluish. Now that I think about it, the oil that came out appeared black. But when you looked at the bubbles from the drips, it had a slightly purple tint, which I thought was a little odd. Does that mean anything? But I think you are mistaken on the warranty. Dodge has/had the 7/70 warranty. I know the mileage went up to 100K on the diesel engine, but I don't recall anything about the years dropping to 5. I guess I'll find out shortly. Again, thanks all. >> If your oil level increases over a period of time, take it in right away >> as diesel diluted oil isn't a good lubricant. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > problem - then let the dealer take care of it. And be quick about it... > while your warranty is for 100K miles, it's also for only 5 years. > But I think you are mistaken on the warranty. Dodge has/had the 7/70 > warranty. I know the mileage went up to 100K on the diesel engine, but I > don't recall anything about the years dropping to 5. I guess I'll find > out I hope I am. I don't know how the 7/70 worked with the diesels - but I do know my '03 was a 5/100 warranty on the engine. Well, I pulled out my paperwork, and the window sticker said 7/70 on the powertrain, and 7/100 on Cummins diesel engine components. The warranty was one of the reasons I had bought a dodge. My 2000 Chevy Suburban only had a 3/36 and had gone through an alternator, a/c compressor, and fuel pump all by 50K. I traded it in when the Service 4WD light came on. I was wanting a pickup for a camper anyway. And I ordered the oil analysis kit. The web site said 2 weeks to get the kit, and maybe another month to get the results. Any idea if they really take that long, or are they just being careful about the expectation they set? Ray >> But I think you are mistaken on the warranty. Dodge has/had the 7/70 >> warranty. I know the mileage went up to 100K on the diesel engine, but I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I hope I am. I don't know how the 7/70 worked with the diesels - but I do > know my '03 was a 5/100 warranty on the engine. >Well, I pulled out my paperwork, and the window sticker said 7/70 on the >powertrain, and 7/100 on Cummins diesel engine components. The warranty was [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Ray (please don't top post...) You didn't say who you ordered it (the kit) from, so hard to say. But that is a *really* long time for such a diagnostic technique. Who's oil are you using? If Lucas, they will do an analysis (IIRC, it is free) if you send them a sample. Go to a real truck place and ask for an oil analysis kit. They probably have them on the shelf. Also ask them if they have experience on turn around times, and again I bet they'll be able to tell you. Excluding the transit time (mail...) most are done in a few days. Big rigs can't wait six weeks for oil analysis! That would be many thousands of miles... <g> I actually prefer those who do. To Ray: please, continue to top-post. I don't need to re-read the same stuff in the thread that I've read over, and over, and over.... the mile-long threads between Roy and Denny, where they constantly quote each other for paragraphs upon paragraphs, to add 5 words of text WAY at the bottom, is quite enough. <love ya, guys.... just sayin'> > (please don't top post...) ¿?noq? ?ui?l?? ?? s?? ???? ?ou '?u?p ????????oq ?l?u??? os ?ui??o? d?nd ??? d??? o? ?o??lnqi??p ??u ? pu? s??ds o? puno?? ???? s???s pu? s??l?? ??u 's?????? ????? 5 plo s???? 95 ?,i 'll?? ???s s?? ??iun??o? ??? ???? ?ollo? ?l?so? i ?nq ?ui?sod do? ?ui?il ?o ??os ?,i ??ou? ?,uop i >I actually prefer those who do. To Ray: please, continue to top-post. I >don't need to re-read the same stuff in the thread that I've read over, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> (please don't top post...) ¿ʇnoqɐ ƃuıʞlɐʇ ǝʍ sɐʍ ʇɐɥʍ ʍou 'ƃuɐp ˙˙˙˙ʇɹɐƃoq ʎlʞuɐɹɟ os ƃuıʞɹoʍ dɯnd ǝɥʇ dǝǝʞ oʇ ɹoʇɐlnqıɟǝp ʍǝu ɐ puɐ sɔǝds oʇ punoɹƃ ɥɔɐǝ sʇɐǝs puɐ sǝʌlɐʌ ʍǝu 'sʞɔɐʇʇɐ ʇɹɐǝɥ 5 plo sɹɐǝʎ 95 ɯ,ı 'llǝɥ ˙ʇǝs sɐɥ ʎʇıunɯɯoɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ ʍolloɟ ʎlʇsoɯ ı ʇnq ƃuıʇsod doʇ ƃuıʞıl ɟo ʇɹos ɯ,ı ˙ʍouʞ ʇ,uop ı >I actually prefer those who do. To Ray: please, continue to top-post. I >don't need to re-read the same stuff in the thread that I've read over, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> (please don't top post...) Bitch, bitch, bitch. <G> >I actually prefer those who do. To Ray: please, continue to top-post. I >don't need to re-read the same stuff in the thread that I've read over, and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> (please don't top post...) >Bitch, bitch, bitch. <G> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >>> (please don't top post...) We have to put up with, but he's worth it! On Jun 24, 11:11 pm, "Tom Lawrence" < <love ya, guys.... just > sayin'> I'm thinking there is a group hug in the air..... <BG> Denny > Well, I pulled out my paperwork, and the window sticker said 7/70 on the > powertrain, and 7/100 on Cummins diesel engine components. The warranty [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ray If you are getting fuel dilution, by the time you get the oil checked you might have a mess on your hands. Go to a Cummins or maybe some truck repair place and have them use a visgage to check the oil for dilution. Or do it the old fashon way, smell it or see if the oil runs off the stick real fast. > If you are getting fuel dilution, by the time you get the oil checked you > might have a mess on your hands. I've always got e-mailed .PDF files back from Blackstone within a week of mailing off the samples... this bit about taking a month sounds like CYA lawyer-speak to me. Actually, I'm taking it in to a dealer on monday. Just the way it coughs and such starting up can't be good for it, regardless of any danger from oil contamination. I still plan on doing the analysis though. It was Blackstone that said a month turn around. Reading their FAQ, it sounds like they get a lot of harrassment from people wanting results in 15 minutes, so I'm thinking they are just trying to set an expectation they know they can beat. I always wondered why the military was so fanatical about getting oil analysis done. Judging from what it can tell you, now it makes sense. And Peter, sorry, but I too prefer top posting. When reading thorough a thread, it's much easier to follow the conversation when you can just start reading instead of having to search through the previous 15 sets of comments. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I'll post back once I know what the problem was. Maybe it will help someone else. Ray >> Well, I pulled out my paperwork, and the window sticker said 7/70 on the >> powertrain, and 7/100 on Cummins diesel engine components. The warranty [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Or do it the old fashon way, smell it or see if the oil runs off the stick > real fast. Well, Thanks to everyone. It turned out that there were 2 injectors leaking. They're also going to replace the pump in the fuel tank, but that is on back order. Fortunately, it's all covered under warranty, so it's not costing me a cent. That sure justifies my decision to go with a Dodge. Although, now that the injectors are replaced I'm thinking I want to go change the oil yet again. But I'm going to wait a couple days so it's got over the 500 mile minimum that Blackstone labs recommends for an analysis. I'd like to know if I was getting much fuel in the oil. Thanks again everyone. >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > FMB > (North Mexico) >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Thanks, Do a sniff test: what does the smoke smell like? Unburnt fuel (which can be a whiteish/gray smells basically like diesel, oil on the other hand has its own distinctive smell. |
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