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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Cars / December 20051999 Caravan Serpentine Belt Issue
Hi, My 1999 Caravan has been wonderful for 82,000 miles. My only real complaint was about the brakes until last week. While taking my kid to school in the rain, the serpentine belt popped off. It was original, and still looks pretty good to me. I replaced the belt anyway, and learned a few things: 1.) The AutoZone de-tensioner that they rent is a POS, and I did better with a ratcheting box end 15 mm wrench with a cheater bar over the other end. The trick is to get the tensioner retracted enough before the tool hits an obstruction. The AutoZone tool could not do that. 2.) The internet is full of Dodge hating folk that lose their serpentine belts whenever it gets a little wet. Apparently there was never a recall, and all a dealer will do is replace parts where the fault appears to be in the design. The only sure thing after servicing the problem is the bill will be stiff. 3.) I have run across some references concerning a bracket used in snow states, and some other guy that uses GM parts to fix the problem. The bracket part number was not a good one, and the GM guy wants money to make it worth his while. So far the new belt is staying on. I can however see that the tensioning idler is a little bit crooked, and I guess this is the crux of the problem. Many folk seem to trade the van off because they won't dare let the wife or daughter drive it around because they fear that they will get stranded. I wonder how widespread this problem is, and what the folks on this group have been doing about it? Regards, Jim Candela it's one of the chronic problems with the 3.3L V6. The tensioner fails, in my case on a '98 Grand Caravan the bracket bent out of alignment at 37,000 miles, causing belt slippage, glazing, squealing and a ratcheting sound at start-up. Can eventually throw the belt. There is a replacement tensioner that fixes the mounting/alignment issue. Sad commentary on "Chrysler engineering". >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >Regards, >Jim Candela >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >trick is to get the tensioner retracted enough before the tool hits an >obstruction. The AutoZone tool could not do that. [snip] >I wonder how widespread this problem is, and what the folks on this group >have been doing about it? > >Regards, >Jim Candela I do #1 on my 3.3v6 about every oil change or if it even hints at squealing. The tensioner tends to get stuck. Bill if your tensioner gets stuck, replace it, that is the sign of one going bad, that is also how they get crooked, from the torque of the engine......the tensioner is supposed to be able to move with the torque. replace it now before it breaks. that is one of the first things i do when a vhicle comes inot the shop is pull on the belt to see if the tensioner moves Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > >Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > if it even hints at squealing. The tensioner > tends to get stuck. Thats just two funny, the reason why your belt is falling off is because it needs a tensioner, its wore out!! when the belt is at an angle and water hits it, dont you think it will slide off??? Get real pal, dont blame Chrysler for your ignorance... when your tires wear out do you think Goodyear will recall them??? Are you gonna get mad at auto zone now because they sold you a faulty belt that slides off in the rain? <<<< I guess this is the crux of the problem. Many folk seem to trade the van off because they won't dare let the wife or daughter drive it around because they fear that they will get stranded.<<< I wonder how many husbands put there wives out in a car knowing that a tensioner is bad??? this is just to funny..>>>>>>> wonder how widespread this problem is, and what the folks on this group > have been doing about it?<<<<<< I would say that the ones that see the tensioner is faulty would replace it before sending someone back out on the road. Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Regards, > Jim Candela Glenn, It's attitudes like yours that keep me out of Chrysler dealerships. I've always liked mopars, and hated their service. They rip you off, don't know what their talking about, and have an attitude to boot. Hard to imagine how you guys sleep at night. I presume you will never admit there is a problem with the design. I guess my belt falls off because I'm arrogant. Maybe it falls off because there is a problem with pulley alignment and the tensioner when worn somewhat either sticks, or angles down from the belt tension. Why can't this design last 100,000 miles? It does on lots of other (Jap) cars. Why do so many folk less arrogant than I have this problem? Could it be that the design, or vendor who builds the pulley / belt system have a quality issue, and Chrysler managers bury their heads in the sand because the dealerships are making a killing replacing parts over and over and over again? Here are some of your satisfied customers: From http://www.carsurvey.org/viewmorecomments_review_30931_1.html 4th Jan 2004, 16:04 We have a 1999 Dodge Caravan and the serpentine belt has slipped off at least six or seven times. I am now afraid to drive the car in rain. Yesterday, I came out of a car-wash and it happened while turning onto a busy intersection. Lost control of my steering. Scary and especially so because I had my three kids with me. We could have been killed by this. I wonder if anyone has been killed by this problem. Why hasn't this been recalled? The dealer told me that they are putting a splash shield under the car to keep the belt dry! What's with that? (!) That's the part to fix the problem? I don't know why there's been no recall. 20th Jan 2004, 11:20 I brought my 99 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport in to have the serpentine belt replaced at 64,603. They told me the serpentine belt tensioner also needed to be replaced. Total cost: $130 dollars. I didn't think a tensioner should go bad that soon. Looking back since buying the van in March 99, the belt always squealed and I momentarily lost power steering when driving through standing water. I now believe the belt tensioner on my van has been bad from the beginning. I feel fortunate after reading the other comments on this problem. If you haven't had your belt tensioner replaced yet, I would recommend it. 20th Mar 2004, 07:03 I have a 1998 Dodge Caravan with 63,000 miles and have experienced many of the same issues mentioned here. The belt tensioner has just failed and I am replacing it now (it's a real pain to do it yourself, too). The tranny cooler lines have been leaking fluid and the resister block for the heater fan motor burned out. I like the layout of the Caravan for family travel, but the vehicle is too poorly designed mechanically for me to consider buying another one. 10th Apr 2004, 17:57 Does anyone have any experience of replacing the serpentine belt with a Goodyear Gatorback belt? I have heard of several instances where this has cured the problem although I am yet to be convinced. The Gatorback design on the ribbed side is different, but it is the smooth side that slips off the idler pulleys; the only way I can see that this design would help is if the extra grooves allow the belt to follow a tighter curve and thus grip the pulley tighter. I'm about to fit one anyway ($38) and I'll let you know if it helps - anything to make the vehicle safer for my wife on the school run. 10th May 2004, 07:39 My family has experienced the same problem with the serpentine belt and have the same safety concerns. The belt and tensioner on our 99 Grand Caravan SE was replaced under warranty in March 2002. After traveling through a small puddle of water in June 2003 the belt fell off and took the water pump with it. Again, the belt and tensioner was replaced. October of 2003 the belt was again replaced. Now, in May of 2004, again after traveling through a puddle of water (1/2" deep) the belt fell off. Each time the belt falls off there is no power steering which presents a serious safety risk. Perhaps Chrysler should address these concerns before someone is seriously injured. 27th May 2004, 17:29 My wife's 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan SE Has threw the belt off twice this week. No Water involved just driving down the road and almost wrecking because of no power steering. You can see the belt tensioner is not lined up right (I have put two on) Should be a recall! 25th Jul 2004, 15:12 My daughter and son in law bought a new 1999 Dodge Caravan. The serpentine belt came off twice at 24000 miles. A new belt split after just 4 months of use. This week the tensioner and belt will be replaced. 26th Jul 2004, 09:53 My 1999 Grand Caravan Sport, 3.8 L with 48, 000 miles requires the second tensioner replacement in a year. Although I have never experienced the belt slipping off, the noise is quite a nuisance. There is a 1 year parts and labor warranty for replacement. I'm surprised that given all the attention to this problem, no recall or goodwill gesture has been extended. 5th Aug 2004, 18:43 Wow! I can't believe the amount of people with this problem (or maybe I can). Today the tensioner on my 2000 Grand Caravan went out. The bolt holding the tensioner in place (there is only 1!!! bolt) was sheared right in half. This sent the tensioner flying into the power steering mechanism and bent the pulley wheel for the power steering. Now the tensioner and pulley need to be replaced (to the tune of $325 dollars). Thank God this happened in my driveway instead of driving 75 MPH down the freeway or the van would have been impossible to control, seeing that my power steering went out immediately, not to mention that I would have overheated pretty quickly. My van only has 47,000 miles on it and the belt was just replaced about 1 1/2 months ago because it was making a horrid squealing noise. Dodge has a potentially serious problem on their hands with a defect of this nature. J.W. Houston, TX. The list goes on and on and on..... Thanks for all the positive input Glenn. > Thats just two funny, the reason why your belt is falling off is because > it [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >> Regards, >> Jim Candela you make no sense, im glad people like you dont bring your vehicle in the shop for me to work on, expecting parts to last 100k and if they dont to put out a recall??What do you do if you get a flat tire, do you contact the tire dealer? wiper blades that fall apart, thats a saftey issue but more common sesne to replace them when you see them bad The tensioner is not in the preventative maintenance schedule up to and beyond 100,000 miles. That is why I brought it up. It should last 100K + miles. This is not rocket science. We have a poor design being covered up by folk like you that compare it to worn out wiper blades. Get real sir. For many folk their wiper blades last longer then their belt tensioner...This is not right, and you know it. I was hoping to find something in this group like this. "Yes there is an issue with 1999's, and was fixed in 2000. The new tensioner p/n 12345678 is available from your Dodge dealer for $49.50 and can be installed for a modest fee." I didn't find that at all. I cannot even get you or Glen to admit there is a problem with these vehicles when in fact you know, and I know there is. > you make no sense, im glad people like you dont bring your vehicle in the > shop for me to work on, expecting parts to last 100k and if they dont to > put out a recall??What do you do if you get a flat tire, do you contact > the tire dealer? wiper blades that fall apart, thats a saftey issue but > more common sesne to replace them when you see them bad The belt should be checked at least every 15k that includes the tensioner, ever since the 3.0 was introduced in 1988 and the 3.3/3.8 to this date that tensioner was used (different part number for the 3.0). If you take your vehicle to a shop that does not check these things, yes you will have problems. If you hear a rumbling noise when started cold this is an indication that the tensioner is going bad, if the belt squeals, this is an indication of it going bad, if the belt falls off, thats another indication, If the tensioner is locked up on the 3.3/3.8 litre it will take out the water pump if it is left on to long. I have seen so many water pumps installed because the tensioner went bad and the person that installs the pump doesnt replace the tensioner and now they cry because the pump was bad, Take you vehicle to have it serviced by someone who knows what they are doing.. > The tensioner is not in the preventative maintenance schedule up to and > beyond 100,000 miles. That is why I brought it up. It should last 100K + > miles. This is not rocket science. <<I have no idea how long a part should last, but i do know that if properly checked it would have been caught, But when you see something obvious such as a tensioner being crooked and the belt coming off and putting your wife back out on the street with a problem like that, I have to wonder who is the one fixing your vehicle? > The tensioner is not in the preventative maintenance schedule up to and > beyond 100,000 miles. That is why I brought it up. It should last 100K + [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > the tire dealer? wiper blades that fall apart, thats a saftey issue but > > more common sesne to replace them when you see them bad Why don't you go buy a General Motors product, then? They have recalls all the time. In fact, they just set a new record for recalls this year. And recalls they cover up, they call "Campaigns". So if it's a recall you want, here's your company. Larry Unlock the Universe | The tensioner is not in the preventative maintenance schedule up to and | beyond 100,000 miles. That is why I brought it up. It should last 100K + [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | > the tire dealer? wiper blades that fall apart, thats a saftey issue but | > more common sesne to replace them when you see them bad I do not problem with the serpentine belt, idler and tensioner and would like to share my experience. I have a '97 Town and Country LX bought brand new, now 78,000 mile and still have the original serpentine belt, idler and tensioner. I noticed the squeaking high pitch sound from the beginning, we thought it was normal, because it disappeared, and came back from time to time. Now I knew it might depend on if it rain or not. We started to notice the noise got louder because it is wetter in 2004 winter in CA, hence I finally concluded that it is time to get a new serpentine belt after reading all postings on Internet. I believe that not every T&C, Caravan have the problem described here. There are million of Chrysler cars with similar belt/pulley design. It seems to me it is an alignment issue - A car would need front wheel alignment if the tires keep on worn out on one side of the wall. Similarly, if the serpentine belt keeps on slip off, putting it back without inspection is not a solution. Or if the belt is shredded repeatedly, putting a new one is not the solution either. Even a new idler or tensioner without realignment does not guarantee solution either. May be the real problem is it is hard to align all the elements (i.e. pulley) correctly or the brackets to hold them are subject to bend. Having a tensioner tool (homemade or not) and a spare serpentine belt in the car seems a good practice. p.s. This is unbias opinion. My job is computer related, and unrelate to any car company. /Steve from S.F, CA. Alignment is the big problem, Even just a tad out will cause squealing, belt shreading and belt falling off, especially if water or antifreeze hits it. That will make it slide right off. If the A/C drain sock is missing it will dump the water on it when you make a turn and cause slippage, noises and once again, fall off. A missing drain hose from the wiper module will dump the water on top of the belt also and cause this. > I do not problem with the serpentine belt, idler and tensioner and > would like to share my experience. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > /Steve from S.F, CA. First, At 82k miles, you should have already gone through 2 belts and a tensioner. Belts don't last as long as YOU want them to. They are made of rubber. Second, in order for the serpentine belt system to work the way it was intended to, there has to be a weak link in the system. These belts rob less power from the engine, last longer than v-belts, and are cheaper to produce. Also the brackets on the engine are lighter than the old systems where each access. was movable for adjustment. It is no big Dodge/Mopar/whatever company conspiracy to put out a defective or substandard product. All the automakers have similar serpentine systems and none that I have seen last 100k miles with no maintenance. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Regards, > Jim Candela So, what's your view of serpentine belt and tensioner failures at 37,000 miles? Not to mention head gasket failure on a 3.3L at 33,000 miles, and internally rusted and chunking/crumbling rotors at 37,000? Can you say "junk"? I thought so. >First, At 82k miles, you should have already gone through 2 belts and a >tensioner. [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >>Regards, >>Jim Candela Well in the models of Chrysler vehicles that I work on every day compared to other makes, the Dodge/Plymouth products are cheaper made and are priced less. That's why we have so many of them as state/government vehicles. The low bid gets the sale. To get low bids you have to cut corners, fact of business. Sometimes the corners are quality. Maybe you need to go get a Toyota, they make great cheap cars. > So, what's your view of serpentine belt and tensioner failures at 37,000 > miles? [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > >>Regards, > >>Jim Candela head gasket failures is not a common thing for that mileage for the 3.3 but i have seen it, as far as the rotors rusting, yea that will happen, especially if the vehicle sits for long periods without being driven and in a salt belt area makes it worse. >>>>Apparently there was never a recall, > >>and all a dealer will do is replace parts where the fault appears to be in > >>the design. The only sure thing after servicing the problem is the bill<<< the dealer has no say so, they cant make up the rules, they follow guidelines set by Chrysler, that is why the dealer has a district rep, if you have a problem take it up with him/her.... > Can you say "junk"? yes i can say junk, I can also say Maintenace and alittle common sense goes a long way > So, what's your view of serpentine belt and tensioner failures at 37,000 > miles? [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > >>Regards, > >>Jim Candela Factory recommended "severe" maintenance schedule, same as our Honda, where we never saw these sorts of failures. Junk by design, and the Chrysco zone rep refused any consideration. Common sense? Absolutely. No more Chrysco products... Just bought another Honda. > head gasket failures is not a common thing for that mileage for the 3.3 but > i have seen it, as far as the rotors rusting, yea that will happen, [quoted text clipped - 122 lines] >>>>Regards, >>>>Jim Candela > Factory recommended "severe" maintenance schedule, same as our Honda, > where we never saw these sorts of failures. Junk by design, and the > Chrysco zone rep refused any consideration. Common sense? Absolutely. > No more Chrysco products... Just bought another Honda. Good luck. I have a friend who owns a Honda only repair shop. He just built a huge new building because he's swamped with work year 'round, and he's still booking three weeks out. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >and he's still booking three weeks out. > Thanks. This is our 4th Honda since 1978. No worries. More Hondas. It's the Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler dealers here who hold people up. No-mo-Chrys-co. This has been an interesting thread. I do have a few comments though: Has the aftermarket worked on the design for the tensioner? For example, is the Napa, or other brand tensioner any better for the 3.3 V6 as compared to the mopar part? Same for the belt? Has any company made a upgrade kit? I still have a hard time looking at the owners manual and not seeing any maintenance schedule for the tensioner, and then being told I should have done this or that, and had at least two failures by now. For a while there I thought, Gee Jim how come you don't inspect your tensioner with every oil change? The answer is that I never knew, and the owners manual never said to do that. Aren't these kinds of problems what often triggers a recall, especially when you suddenly lose power steering with not a bit of warning? My belt never squealed; just one day while driving my daughter to school (raining) it popped off. My next stop was the hospital where my wife was scheduled for surgery. The school principal drove us..in a darn but running Toyota. I have been driving mopars for over 30 years, and I know the engineers can fix anything if they put their minds to it. Those guys are great. Why is it that failures like we have discussing seem to go on year after year? I guess economics come into the issue? This seems to be a case where continuous design improvement projects have been absent. I had a 85 LeBaron GTS with the Turbo I engine. That engine was bulletproof even with performance modifications including the computer, water injection (poor man's intercooler), MSD ignition, etc. I could stay with most any 5.0 Liter Mustang from 0-100 mph. If I had a nickel for every time I went through the gears 1-2-3 each to the 7200 RPM redline, I'd be a very wealthy man. I finally retired the car after 174,000 very hard miles. The abuse took out two transmissions, 3 clutches, and finally the transaxle. The engine never failed, nor did the turbo. I really beat the piss out of this car for 10 years, and that 2.2 Turbo I motor hung in there. With my 99 Caravan the story is different. I wonder why? I've never raced my Caravan, or ran up the tachometer on my 3.3 V6. I think the Dodge 2.2 was a great motor for what it was. My last three mopars all have had brake problems. My 95 Neon, 99 Stratus 2.4, and 99 Caravan 3.3. In each instance the real wheel cylinders seeped brake fluid until the brake lining was saturated. With the Stratus I didn't find out until the fluid was gone (wife driving). Why cannot they use wheel cylinders that last the life of the car? My 1988 Omni 2.2 lasted 15 years (145,000 miles) before I sold it (still ran great!). Never had a hydraulic problem with it's brakes. With drum brakes being around for 100 years or so now, can't they make the parts economical AND reliable like they did on my 88 Omni? My brother is a Toyota man, and I hate it when he says his Camry or Avalon just turned 140,000 miles and all he had to do was change the oil, and one set of brakes. In fact he NEVER pops the hood. Just the oil change place looks under the hood. How do you mopar fans counter that position? Being a 273 and then a 340 man, I HATE Chevies! Been interesting, Jim I think your lebarron with the turbo had a Mitsubishi engine. > This has been an interesting thread. I do have a few comments though: > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > Been interesting, > Jim > I think your lebarron with the turbo had a Mitsubishi engine. Nope. Chrysler built. I had a 94 caravan just sold with 157k on it, not a problem, but yes i did put a tensioner on it, found it seized when I "Checked the belt", I got a 95 Dodge1500 going on 215k, never a problem, acually just put a fuel pump in it due to mileage, My son has a 96 Neon 86K yes, i had to update head gasket, faulty design, , and my wife has a 03 sebring convertable, 34k I dont have major problems or breakdowns because I maintain my vehicles and catch things before they cause problems, Sure i could have just put a belt on the caravan and sent them out untill it broke the tensioner or water pump. Common sense keeps problems from happening. just because it isnt part of a scheduled maintance program does not mean you should check things out, get real!!! when you check your brakes does that mean just the brakes or does that mean the star adjusters, springs, wheel cyls???? Or are those life time parts??? the adjusters seize up!! Or do you install the shoes and put the seized adjusters back on, The same with a belt, if you pull on it and it is stuck dont you replace it? if it is crooked, dont you replace it??Or do you put your family back in it to drive. And if you dont know that the tensioner is supposed to move then you need to find someone who is familar with the product > This has been an interesting thread. I do have a few comments though: > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > Been interesting, > Jim Max you keep coming back to me putting my family in a Dodge when I know it isn't 100%. Don't you service technicians do the same several times every day? Do you tell customers to look for items that mother Chrysler has chosen to keep quiet about it? If you did these things your boss might feel different. If he didn't, I'd bet his boss would stop you. I wonder what kind of car most service technicians give to their spouses?? Maybe like the painters house that needs paint, or the plumber that has leaking faucets at home, or the roofer with a leak over his head. Hey, when you deal with something all day long, it is human nature to want to go home and do something different. Could it be Max that your more guilty than I about sending off the family in a less than perfect car? :-) Jim when you bad mouth a product because you or whoever is working on your car doesnt know what you are doing , then yea i will voice my opinion, but to say there should be a recall on a part because it isnt a part of a maintenance program is ridiculous. And yea, i talk about putting your family in a car that may not be safe because you arent familair with you car. and yes, i tell my customers what to look out for as far as what could wear out and what could cause a problem just as i am on here, I dont believe it has anything to do with Chrysler hiding anything, once again, we go back to whom ever is servicing your vehicle should catch these things, like i said, maintenance programs on checking brakes..... it doesnt say check the return springs. does that mean they are ok for the life of the vehicle??? this was my last comment to you > Max you keep coming back to me putting my family in a Dodge when I know it > isn't 100%. Don't you service technicians do the same several times every [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jim Tell me who makes a perfect car? Larry Unlock the Universe | <<snip>> | Could it be Max that your more guilty than I | about sending off the family in a less than perfect car? :-) | | Jim my point exactly > Tell me who makes a perfect car? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > | > | Jim IMO the tensioner design is defective (but I suspect this is true of many similar tensioners). I'm tagging on to this thread to include my own experience as an owner vice a response to any poster. My 97 caravan 3.0L, 140K Miles, has had tensioner problems since I bought it w/ 78k Miles. The tensioner bent outward at about 2-3 degrees from the plane and the serpentine belts squeak after 15-20k of wear. When I first saw this problem I purchased a replacement tensioner from Autozone but when I put it on, the belt cocked it 3 deg under tension. I returned it and made a thin beveled shim which brought the old tensioner into the correct plane at rest. This is not perfect but better than the "New" replacement. I still replace the belt when it gets a glazed look on the back and squeaks. Usually in wet or damp weather. I can replace it fairly fast as I have the procedure down, though I'd prefer never to mess with it. BTW I also have a laser belt alignment tool sold by Gates specifically to align serpentine pulleys (typically Alternator, Hyd Pumps etc). While helpful, it is not much use when it comes to the Tensioners. And I don't recommend it. Also a little testing under tension on the bench demonstrated the tensioner is defiantly flexing off plane vice the possibility that the mounting bracket on vehicle was somehow miss-aligned. Aside from that you can see it flex as tension is applied. I considered getting a junkyard tensioner and rebuilding/designing it using bronze bushings or bearings but it is not worth the effort given the bevel is doing the job. I did inject (small hypodermic) some synthetic oil into the bearing which sounded/felt a bit dry and this has also worked very well. I could replace the bearing if needed but that has not been a problem. The original tensioners use a nylon bushing that appears to flex under tension. It is in my opinion, a poor design. However it is the same design as the tensioner used in my 83 olds 4.3L which had all the same problems and more. I would think that in the absence of a better quality replacement tensioner that an aftermarket beveled bushing could be sold. OTOH this puts a bit abnormal twist on the center bolt that holds it in place, though that has not been a problem for me. Bob, Your a breath of fresh air on this thread, thanks. I recently looked at the Auto-Zone tensioner, and another (Dayton or Dayco?). They appear to be similar to OEM. I could even flex the pulley and rock it back and forth as the pressed in bearing wiggled back and forth. To me these appear to be junk. I then got my hand on a Gates tensioner, p/n 38113 for my 1999 3.3 Caravan. This jewel is much heavier, and uses a different design approach. The spring is not flat like OEM; it is round and looks as heavy a gage as a valve spring on my old 340 Duster. There is a pointer that shows the range of spring loading so you can see if the tensioner is within a safe zone, or at the edge where the belt goes slack. This tensioner cost me $45.00. I will be putting it soon, so I will see how that goes, and look for deflection under load as you saw on yours. It looks like the aftermarket is responding after all. I wonder what the parts & labor charge would be for 'ol Max to install a new OEM tensioner and belt?? Regards, Jim > IMO the tensioner design is defective (but I suspect this is true of many > similar tensioners). I'm tagging on to this thread to include my own [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > OTOH this puts a bit abnormal twist on the center bolt that holds it in > place, though that has not been a problem for me. Sounds like an exact duplicate of the Chrysler tensioner, the heavy spring, and even the arrow with the gauge showing wear, Chryslers part is about $55.00 with a 12 month warranty, what is the warranty on the auto zone?, I have also had to replace the after market ones just after installed because the belt rides on the edge of some of them, The dealer here Charges an hr labor > Bob, > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > OTOH this puts a bit abnormal twist on the center bolt that holds it in > > place, though that has not been a problem for me. YOU ( CAN'T ) BEAT A ( CHRYSLER ) NOT EVEN WITH A RICE BURNER ( GM SUCKS ) ( FORDS OK ) ( CHRYSLER ) ( DODGE ) # 1 Now theres a Dodge Boy > YOU ( CAN'T ) BEAT A ( CHRYSLER ) NOT EVEN WITH A RICE BURNER ( GM SUCKS > ) ( FORDS OK ) ( CHRYSLER ) ( DODGE ) # 1 Hi: from canada: Just had the tensioner replaced on a 94 3.3 caravan. It was seized . I am curious as to were they seize up as it appears to be just a spring,but try as I may couldn,t get it to move even a little, The mechanic that change mine said it took out the water pump. could htis be true? It was oridginal equipment at 140,000km. It appears to be seized in a slack position (re alignment mark). The cost for tensioner at garage was 79.00 Canadian. 49 for water pump and 29 for the new belt. Labour was 2 hours at $50.00 for grand total of 300 with tax. thanks for the input Gjf > Now theres a Dodge Boy > > YOU ( CAN'T ) BEAT A ( CHRYSLER ) NOT EVEN WITH A RICE BURNER ( GM SUCKS > > ) ( FORDS OK ) ( CHRYSLER ) ( DODGE ) # 1 The belt should be checked at least every 15k that includes the tensioner, ever since the 3.0 was introduced in 1988 and the 3.3/3.8 to this date that tensioner was used (different part number for the 3.0). If you take your vehicle to a shop that does not check these things, yes you will have problems. If you hear a rumbling noise when started cold this is an indication that the tensioner is going bad, if the belt squeals, this is an indication of it going bad, if the belt falls off, thats another indication, If the tensioner is locked up on the 3.3/3.8 litre it will take out the water pump if it is left on to long. I have seen so many water pumps installed because the tensioner went bad and the person that installs the pump doesnt replace the tensioner and now they cry because the pump was bad, Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech > Hi: from canada: > Just had the tensioner replaced on a 94 3.3 caravan. It was seized . I am [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > YOU ( CAN'T ) BEAT A ( CHRYSLER ) NOT EVEN WITH A RICE BURNER ( GM SUCKS > > > ) ( FORDS OK ) ( CHRYSLER ) ( DODGE ) # 1 Canadian Tire sells a lifetime warranty on their water pump, shop around the Chrysler pump only has a 1 year guarantee. > Hi: from canada: > Just had the tensioner replaced on a 94 3.3 caravan. It was seized . I am [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> > SUCKS >> > ) ( FORDS OK ) ( CHRYSLER ) ( DODGE ) # 1 yes but when canadian tire says the tensioner caused it to go out........i would bet it wont be lifetime warranty on the second pump > Canadian Tire sells a lifetime warranty on their water pump, shop around the > Chrysler pump only has a 1 year guarantee. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >> > SUCKS > >> > ) ( FORDS OK ) ( CHRYSLER ) ( DODGE ) # 1 i would just like to add that my serpentine belt has fallen off today after cautiously driving under a strom in california. it is very dissapointing to see that the belt natively "slips off" just because a tad bit of water went on there. of course, water on a belt poses a problem. simple problem, simple solution. why isn't there a splash guard where water is more likely to ruin something easier? also, i think the GM line of cars are not well built compared to the import line of cars. as far as i am concerned, if gm designed this for shortcuts, why the hell would they sacrifice the safety of the drivers? the dodge caravan is a mass market mainstream vehicle. to see mechanical failures due to a rain here or there, or even a car wash, is VERY, VERY sad. typically serpentine belts DO NOT have to be replaced until it hits the mid 100k mile mark. quality of american cars have gone down, and it's not worth the hassle. i own a nissan 240sx, a nissan 300zx, an infiniti q45, even a toyota previa, all of which have never dissapointed me. the quality of a newer aged domestic car has gone in par with my long living previa. i'm talking yesterday's quality and safety of imports into todays domestic line of cars. it's just indescribable. i would just like to add that my serpentine belt has fallen off today after cautiously driving under a strom in california. it is very dissapointing to see that the belt natively "slips off" just because a tad bit of water went on there. of course, water on a belt poses a problem. simple problem, simple solution. why isn't there a splash guard where water is more likely to ruin something easier? also, i think the GM line of cars are not well built compared to the import line of cars. as far as i am concerned, if gm designed this for shortcuts, why the hell would they sacrifice the safety of the drivers? the dodge caravan is a mass market mainstream vehicle. to see mechanical failures due to a rain here or there, or even a car wash, is VERY, VERY sad. typically serpentine belts DO NOT have to be replaced until it hits the mid 100k mile mark. quality of american cars have gone down, and it's not worth the hassle. i own a nissan 240sx, a nissan 300zx, an infiniti q45, even a toyota previa, all of which have never dissapointed me. the quality of a newer aged domestic car has gone in par with my long living previa. i'm talking yesterday's quality and safety of imports into todays domestic line of cars. it's just indescribable. well it isnt just the water that caused it to come off, im sure that the tensioner or a pulley is not aligned correctly, if that is the case and you simply put it back on with out the proper fix it will come back off Glenn Beasley Chrysler tech > i would just like to add that my serpentine belt has fallen off today after > cautiously driving under a strom in california. it is very dissapointing to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > safety of imports into todays domestic line of cars. it's just > indescribable. > i would just like to add that my serpentine belt has fallen off today after > cautiously driving under a strom in california. it is very dissapointing to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > safety of imports into todays domestic line of cars. it's just > indescribable. Well first off, Dodge is part of Mopar, not GM. Secondly, you're right it is a poor design ot have so much trouble with it. My mom's Caravan's belt came off last week. It was rainy out. I checked it all out myself and put teh belt on, couldn't find anything wrong with it. Pulleys, idler, and tensioner all seemed to all be straight. Belt seemed to track alright. Tensioner moved freely and put plenty of tension on the belt. Took it in to the shop and they couldn't find anything wrong with it either after looking at it for two days. I don't see why it should be so hard to design a decent belt system that doesn't come off in the rain and that lasts. I once drove my Galaxie thorugh several feet of water, it was up to the headlights about halfway up the grille. Car drove through it just fine. No problems at all. Got a little water on the floor but I made it through. Re-greased everything and checked all my fluids the next day and all was well. Meanwhile Mopar 38 years later can't design a belt and pulley system that works well when it's wet out, then denies that there is a problem as they rape you for changing the belt and tensioner every year or so as they recommend it whenever the vehicle is in the shop. Pretty sad... Was on the way to pick up my mother from the hospital. It was raining and I went thru a puddle. For the EIGHTH time in 5 years the belt came off! Had it towed in to the dealer where I bought it ( for the EIGTH time) and the service writer just shrugged his shoulders. They had 4 or 5 in for the same thing. Just glad I hadn't picked up mey mother yet so she didn't have to wait for the tow in the rain. Last night went and bought a new Honda Oddesy. Already have a 10 year old Accord that has NEVER left me stranded. I will never own another Chrysler/Dodge again. I have a 3.3 1998 GC Sport. 70,000+ miles and a serpentine belt that will not stay on. I did some research and found that there are two bullitens that were sent out to address this issue: 070199 070299 My van is at the dealership as I write being looked at to fix this issue. The belt has come off about 8 times in 10 months stranding my wife and children at times a long way from home at night in the rain. It was NOT a problem until the dealership performed their 60,000 maitenance. Since then the dealer has charged me a towing fee (belt slipped off 4 miles from dealership just after picking up from 60,000 work), $100 for new tentioner, etc. My wife is afraid to drive this vehicle if it gets cloudy because of this problem. I directed the dealership to these two bullitens because they said they could not find them. A friend of mine at an out of state dodge dealership passed on the numbers to me. Iput together a possible solution - serpentine belt alignment, found on the Internet. My ?97 T&C with 80K mile does not have any serpentine belt problem. I search the web for a DIY job to replace the worn belt. I notice other car owners' problem, which may be solved as described below. You will get front wheel alignment done if the front tires worn out unevenly. Similarly, you do not keep on putting the serpentine belt back, or getting a new one because you may need to get the turpentine belt aligned. Cursing the car company may not be the solution because other cars do not have the same problem. 1. Check here (thanks to AutoZone) to see if the serpentine belt is aligned or not: May be there are other methods: http://www.alldata.com/service_provider/techrx/2001/20010615.html (? An incorrect idler pulley bracket is causing a slight misalignment of the serpentine belt. The introduction of snow or water will cause the belt to leave the farm faster than a lovesick bull?.) 2. Here is one of the best fix I found, as of 1/05: http://www.allpar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51435 (?.(the technician) tossed a large fender type washer on the desk and told me to install that between the engine & the power steering bracket ON THE LOWER BOLT ?.. ). The author eventually put another washer on other bolt. 3. Yet, another car owner found another solution independently by putting a washer between idler wheel and its bracket because the idler pulley is inward (toward the firewall). The washer is small as not to rub against the turning part of the idler. I do not have the web link on hand. 4. I hope that serpentine belt Alignment solve most problem. But cars may have problem on brackets, pulley, tensioner and other things. If anything is replaced, check the alignment. 5. Posted from other people - keep any water(liquid) away from the belt. On the older 3.3 engines some of the belt noise was due to an alignment problem with the P/S pump pulley and I would also shim up the lower bracket to remove the noise, but there is so many ways a belt can be out of alignment, they all differ, now the newer Mini Vans and even the Pacificas are having belt noise issues > Iput together a possible solution - serpentine belt alignment, found on the > Internet. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > 5. Posted from other people - keep any water(liquid) away from the belt. Goodyear has now fixed the problem with the serpentine belt once and for all. If you have the 3.0L then you need to get the 49204K field fix kit. Goodyear has made this belt kit bullet proof. Your belt will never fall off again. so can you get that from an autoparts store? or just dealer? > Goodyear has now fixed the problem with the serpentine belt once and for > all. If you have the 3.0L then you need to get the 49204K field fix kit. > Goodyear has made this belt kit bullet proof. Your belt will never fall > off again. Find a Goodyear distributor in your area and as for the 49204K. >Find a Goodyear distributor in your area and as for the 49204K. Is this a new belt and is there a fix for a 3.3 engine ? same problem here on 200 caravan 3.3 thanks Mike |
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