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Car Forum / Dodge / Dodge Cars / April 2005

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colt runs in start position only

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mccreadys4 - 28 Mar 2005 22:15 GMT
I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will run as long as I hold
the key in the start position .As soon as I let the key return to the
on position the car dies. What might this be? also is their a older
points distributer for the 4 cyl mitsubishi motor that would
interchange ? I would love to get away from this computer junk. :?:
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca - 29 Mar 2005 01:44 GMT
>I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will run as long as I hold
>the key in the start position .As soon as I let the key return to the
>on position the car dies. What might this be? also is their a older
>points distributer for the 4 cyl mitsubishi motor that would
>interchange ? I would love to get away from this computer junk. :?:

IIRC there is a ballast resistor on that coil. If so, it is shot or a
connection between it and the ignition switch is bad. Most likely an
open resistor. As for putting in a points system instead of
electronic, you are free to do as you please, but in my opinion, it is
a definite step back into the stone age. There is no computer involved
in the ignition on that car yet.Just a simple amplifier.
mccreadys4 - 29 Mar 2005 19:04 GMT
"user441" wrote:

> >I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will run as long as
> I hold
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> involved
> in the ignition on that car yet.Just a simple amplifier.

If this car has a resistor I don?t see it at the coil. The coil stays
hot according to my test light . I am wondering about the starter
relay? It makes a lot of clicking and the car seems to die right after
the key is released from the start position and the relay makes it?s
last click.
As for the points change being a step back , If I could go back 2
steps I might have a chance of understanding what the heck is going on
! All this new stuff that?s supposed to be so great seems to keep me
here. If this car had points I would have her running right now and
wouldn?t need HELP!!
Thanks mike :roll:
James Goforth - 30 Mar 2005 20:15 GMT
I think while the starter realy is engaged it supplies full battery
voltage to the coil to facilitate starting; when the relay is
deactivated the voltage to the coil is to then come through the ballast
resistor, which it apparently isn't doing.
 Seems like it pretty much has to be in that simple circuit.  I thought
a lot of Chryslers had the resistor right on the firewall(?)
David - 30 Mar 2005 20:45 GMT
>I think while the starter realy is engaged it supplies full battery
> voltage to the coil to facilitate starting; when the relay is
> deactivated the voltage to the coil is to then come through the ballast
> resistor, which it apparently isn't doing.
>  Seems like it pretty much has to be in that simple circuit.  I thought
> a lot of Chryslers had the resistor right on the firewall(?)
This is a mitsubishi! Not a Chrysler. And 9/10 it is the resistor on the
distributor. And it is not available from the dealer. It is packaged with
the distributor and is expensive. You can get one at a jobber.
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca - 31 Mar 2005 00:11 GMT
>"user441" wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>wouldn’t need HELP!!
>Thanks mike :roll:
If it had points it could STILL have the same problem (many did)
mccreadys4 - 02 Apr 2005 16:33 GMT
"user441" wrote:

> >"user441" wrote:
>  > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> If it had points it could STILL have the same problem (many
> did)

This is a 1990 colt model C52amfsexl2d engine 4g15 If anyone knows of
a points distributor that would interchange I would be willing to try
it .
My local salvage yard has been of no help.
I think if the resistor went bad their should be no electric at the
coil, true?
The coil has electric, isn?t their a control box of some sort ? Where
dose the power go after the pick up head in the distributor?
I understood the points system, open points, coil field colapses and
spark jumps to the nearest ground through the rotor which pointed at
the cylinder ready to fire. points close coil builds up charge for the
next go round.
All the electric ignitions I ever encountred had a control box of one
sort or another. One fellow told me this one is controled through the
computer
( also spendy) And I would hate to pay for one then have it go out in
a few weeks. Also , I would not be able to trust the car ,unless I
feel I have a chance to fix it at the roadside. I feel I can do this
with points. Thanks. :?:
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca - 02 Apr 2005 20:58 GMT
If your engine has what I think it has for ignition, the distributor
has 2 wires going into it (yellow and black IIRC), one connected to
the + side of the coil, and one to the - side. Inside the distributor
is a "module" with 2 connectors - "C" and "B". The "B" side connects
to the coil positive, which is connected to the battery through the
ignition switch , and in most cases a ballast resistor while in the
run position.  When in the crank position, some ignition switches have
an IGN2 position, while other vehicles have an "R" connector on the
starter solenoid, which both provide full cranking voltage to the coil
when cranking - bypassing the resistor.

The module does EXACTLY what the points do in an old "kettering" point
ignition. The "C" wire grounds the coil, and then ungrounds it to
produce a spark.

With the ignition turned on, engine not cranking, there should be
something like 8.5 volts, more or less, at the coil +, and little or
no voltage on the coil - (less than 1 volt, anyway). When the engine
is cranked, the voltage at the coil + should be within a couple tenths
of battery voltage(when cranking this should be between aprox 9.5 and
12).

As the engine fires when cranked, it's pretty obvious this voltage is
not your problem.

Now, the NON CRANKING ignition voltage - don't just trust a high
impedence digital voltmeter. Put a test light from the coil + to
ground - it MUST light. If it does not, the ballast resistor or the
circuit feeding it is dead.
>"user441" wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>feel I have a chance to fix it at the roadside. I feel I can do this
>with points. Thanks. :?:
mccreadys4 - 03 Apr 2005 04:12 GMT
"user441" wrote:

> If your engine has what I think it has for ignition, the
> distributor
[quoted text clipped - 160 lines]
> do this
> >with points. Thanks. :?:

That?s part of the reason I can?t figure this out in the on position
the test light dose light. Leading me to believe the coil is getting
electric in the on position. So then why dose it die? I have even gone
so far as to supply 12 volts through my test light to the coil to be
certain the coil is hot when it is in the on position. Very confusing.
Is their a control box or some other component involved here?
I am to the point I have run out of ideas.
The guy at the salvage yard said to look in the wire loom down the
steering column to see if a wire is broken or shorted.
I have been given a lot of poor advice as to what it isn?t.
I am hoping to find someone on these boards who knows what it is .
You at least made sense.
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca - 03 Apr 2005 05:09 GMT
>"user441" wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 175 lines]
>I am hoping to find someone on these boards who knows what it is .
>You at least made sense.

Are you CERTAIN it is lack of spark? I'd almost be betting the fuel
pump is shutting down if you have power to the coil with the key in
the run position. I don't have a diagram for the fuel pump system
around any more. Is this critter injected, or carbureted?
mccreadys4 - 03 Apr 2005 19:04 GMT
"user441" wrote:

> >"user441" wrote:
>  > > On 2 Apr 2005 10:33:29 -0500, mccreadys4
[quoted text clipped - 248 lines]
> system
> around any more. Is this critter injected, or carbureted?

I thought of that also so I hard wired the fuel pump , still no go .
as long as I hold the key to the start  position , I could rev the
bendix right off the starter.  let go of the key and it will die, I
can still here the pump and the coil is still hot. :roll:
Eric R Snow - 06 Apr 2005 18:55 GMT
>"user441" wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>wouldn’t need HELP!!
>Thanks mike :roll:
I just had a similar problem with my '92 colt. It has the
distributer/coil combo that pokes out of the left side of the head.
The fix in my case was a new mass air flow sensor AND a new rotor. It
would not run with either of the old parts. The book says that if the
engine runs while cranking and then dies it may be the fuel pump
relay. This was not the problem in my case. Also, check the connector
that goes into the distributer housing. The one that if loose will
fall straight out of the housing.
mccreadys4 - 07 Apr 2005 16:11 GMT
> >"user441" wrote:
>  > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
> will
> fall straight out of the housing.

This one has the coil separate from the distributor.
It?s not going to be a problem with the fuel in any way, Not pump or
injectors. This must be an electrical thing. As I have been told the
coil and distributor have nothing to do with the computer , Then mass
air flow shouldn?t be hooked into the coil.
I tell you this is just junk. If I can find a distributor that uses
points and will fit the Block I can make this car run.
Dose anyone know of a points distributor that might fit this 4cyl
mitsubishi
Block?
Did the older datsun or Toyota? run a mitsubishi?   And if so which
might fit the block?  :?:
Eric R Snow - 07 Apr 2005 16:44 GMT
> > >"user441" wrote:
> >  > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>Did the older datsun or Toyota? run a mitsubishi?   And if so which
>might fit the block?  :?:
The fuel injector pump is controlled by the computer through a relay.
If this is not working correct the car may act the way you see,
according to the manual. If you think the problem is power missing
from the coil after the key switches from the start position then why
don't you eliminate the ignition switch? Just wire from the positive
post on the battery to the coil. As far as switching to points type
ignition a better choice would be to find a module that's made to
eliminate points in a points type ignition and replace your module
with that one. Make sure it's triggered the same as yours. Also, make
sure the computer is not varying your timing. If it is, then any
replacement ignition needs to be isolated from the computer. Points
type ignition, while simple, is less reliable than electronic. I
suggest that if you absolutely have to replace the ignition with a
popints type then go to the wreckers and look at older mitsubishi
distributors. I doubt you'll find one though.
ERS
nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca - 07 Apr 2005 19:51 GMT
> > >"user441" wrote:
> >  > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>Did the older datsun or Toyota? run a mitsubishi?   And if so which
>might fit the block?  :?:

If you are hell bent on installing points, look for an older dodge
colt or Hyundai pony or excell. They all used Mitsu stuff, as they
were mitsu engines. Toyota used Nippondenso,and most nissans were
Hitachi.

Bet if the critter was within 60 miles of me it would be running in
less than 2 hours, including driving time.
Eric R Snow - 08 Apr 2005 00:35 GMT
>>This one has the coil separate from the distributor.
>>It’s not going to be a problem with the fuel in any way, Not pump or
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Bet if the critter was within 60 miles of me it would be running in
>less than 2 hours, including driving time.
What do you think it is? Car puzzles have always intrigued me. I have
had two cars now that had bad rotors that were very hard to diagnose.
The latest my '92 colt. The first was an '85 (I think) mazda GLC. IT
would run only with the ignition way advanced. When idling at close to
the proper timing it would die when you gave it the gas. With a timing
light on the plug wire it would flash at idle and go out when the gas
was pressed. Way advanced it would run and the timing light would
trigger at all rpm. Putting in a new rotor, the second one, fixed the
problem. The first one I put in didn't fix the problem. So the old one
failed, the first new one failed, and the second new one fixed the
problem. Thinking I must have fixed the problem by something other
than the rotor, like maybe getting some dirt out of the way or
something, I put the first rotor back in and the problem returned. And
replacing the first new one with the second new one fixed the problem
again.
ERS
 
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